DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '02 I => Topic started by: Philippe Cordier on February 27, 2002, 10:15:48 PM
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Originally posted by Vlad on the Dark Shadows: General Discussion Forum on February 27, 2002 at 16:15:48:
I would have added this to Luciaphil's original thread, and my costume comment under Happybat's, but with all the activity on the board recently :) it seems that threads only a week old are already being removed. [sadb]
First, a question: Is Angelique the maid of Countess du Pres or Angelique? [sadg] I was surprised to hear that Angelique will be returning to Martinique with Natalie and Andre after Josette is married, so apparently she is the countess' maid, not Josette's personal maid. I must have had Lara Parker's novel more clearly in mind, where Angelique was hired to be a companion and maid for Josette when they were children (and also sisters, but that's another story. :)
Later in the original series, Natalie says that she knew Angelique's mother, and also that she knew Angelique when she was an "uninteresting child." However, given what we know about Angelique, [spoiler]actually having lived in earlier Colonial times as Miranda du Val, I have rationalized that the older Countess simply referred to the sweet young slip of a thing Angelique as "a child." Apparently Miranda/Angelique was somehow achieved immortality when she was around 20, I'd guess. Any ideas on how the apparently innocent Miranda became the evil Angelique? Lara Parker did a good job investigating the psychological possibilities of how someone becomes evil, but she ignored Angelique's history as Miranda and instead had her born and growing up on Martinique.[/spoiler]
Also, I must have missed some dialogue here -- did Josette arrive in New York after a sea voyage from Martinique, or from Paris?
I must say I'm getting a rather perverse delight in watching Angelique at work here - those eyes are real killers. ::) ::)
Has anyone noticed how the lighting in 1795 seems to make everyone's faces thinner (hollow cheeks)? :) :) I noticed this first with Nancy Barrett, then Vicki, and today with KLS. :)
This is probably just me, but I always have a hard time remembering that Jeremiah is Barnabas' uncle rather than his brother. For some reason it just seems to me like they should be brothers. :) Interestingly, that is the way the 1991 revival series did it. However, having two brothers in love with the same girl seems more of a cliche. Maybe that's what the original series writers were trying to avoid.
A note on the men's costumes - Comparing the 1790 costumes in the 1991 series with what we're seeing now, I'd have to say the 1991 series costumes were much more attractive and flattering to the men. For one thing, the pants were - ahem - looser :o ; also, the colors are more monochromatic rather than the variegated colors we see in the original series. Does anyone know which series had the more "authentic" men's costumes for this period? The fabrics in the 1991 series also looked more luxurious to this untrained eye. ::)
-Vlad
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Posted by Midnite on February 27, 2002 at 17:27:26:
In Reply to: More 1795 Comments posted by Vlad on February 27, 2002 at 16:15:48:
...tomorrow!
I would have added this to Luciaphil's original thread, and my costume comment under Happybat's, but with all the activity on the board recently :) it seems that threads only a week old are already being removed. [sadb]
Oh please don't be bummed! The posts are removed only after they're MOVED. The 2 threads you mentioned were transferred to our new board just this afternoon and we're being very careful to not miss any additional posts that might get added since, plus it's being backed up once it's there. MB and I hope to have EVERYTHING DS-related that has been posted here to be residing at our new home by tomorrow afternoon, with this board remaining to direct everyone to it.
Our new board is going to blow you away!!!
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Originally posted by Vlad on February 27, 2002 at 17:40:31:
In Reply to: Our moving day is... posted by Midnite on February 27, 2002 at 17:27:26:
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Our new board is going to blow you away!!!
[coolb]
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Originally posted by Luciaphil on February 27, 2002 at 18:39:03:
In Reply to: More 1795 Comments posted by Vlad on February 27, 2002 at 16:15:48:
How do you get the smilies to work like that? They look so cool!
Luciaphil
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Posted by Josette on February 27, 2002 at 21:34:57:
In Reply to: More 1795 Comments posted by Vlad on February 27, 2002 at 16:15:48:
I think a lot of these problems are the show's usual inconsistency. One would think that within one storyline and the space of a few days that the writers could keep things straight!!
When Angelique first arrived, she was introduced as the Countess' maid. Then, a while later, it was said that Josette was arriving soon and didn't she have things to do to prepare for that. And, since Josette has come, she certainly seems to be her maid, although every once in a while there's a comment that still seems to imply the Countess!
As to the traveling, I don't think they have any idea of what went before!!! When Barnabas was carrying on with Angelique, so he said, he loved Josette but didn't realize that she loved him. It was only later in exchanging letters that he learned of her feelings. So, I don't know how long they are supposed to have been engaged. They say it's 3 months since they've seen each other. In talking about the delay of the ship, it did seem as though they were referring to Martinique. Yet, at times, the do say that Josette was in Paris. So, in less than 3 months she went from Martinique to Paris and then back to the U.S. I don't buy it!!! (And, how long would those letters take to get back and forth, there's no way this timing can work!)
Josette
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Posted by Birdie on February 28, 2002 at 05:10:43:
In Reply to: Re: More 1795 Comments posted by Josette on February 27, 2002 at 21:34:57:
The timing is off but I don't think it would have been unheard of to have stopped in Paris for Josette's trosseau. Poor Angie most likely had to take care of both ladies as she seems to have been the only servant they brought with them.
Birdie
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Posted by Ben on February 28, 2002 at 06:33:46:
In Reply to: More 1795 Comments posted by Vlad on February 27, 2002 at 16:15:48:
I must say I'm getting a rather perverse delight in watching Angelique at work here - those eyes are real killers. ::) ::)
Hi, Vlad! Yeah, she really has that zinger-look with her eyes down cold. And I never tire watching her mouth and jaw tremble with rage.
Ben
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Posted by Ben on February 28, 2002 at 06:51:42:
In Reply to: Our moving day is... posted by Midnite on February 27, 2002 at 17:27:26:
MB and I hope to have EVERYTHING DS-related that has been posted here to be residing at our new home by tomorrow afternoon, with this board remaining to direct everyone to it.
Our new board is going to blow you away!!!
Yay, Midnite! Then I hope Ringo might find the note I left for him last week asking if he noticed the magical player-piano in the 1967 drawing room doing "London Bridge" with one self-correcting key (playing a B-natural that comes out B-flat). If Julia were a music scholar, I'm sure that would have sent her over the edge right then and there, and we wouldn't have been treated to her brilliant histrionics later on, upstairs in her room.
Ben
(who would have tried to rewrite that post here, but after spending a late night taking in a live show at Chicago's legendary Green Mill jazz club -- perhaps the oldest in the U.S. -- can remember only the cool sounds I heard there, including a surprisingly credible torch rendition of "And I Love Her" by a female singer (singing it as "And he loves her"), backed by piano, bass, and drums)
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Posted by RingoCollins on February 28, 2002 at 07:15:29:
In Reply to: Re: Our moving day is... and to RINGO posted by Ben on February 28, 2002 at 06:51:42:
if he noticed the magical player-piano in the 1967 drawing room doing "London Bridge" with one self-correcting key (playing a B-natural that comes out B-flat).
You know, I DID notice that!! Whipped out the liitle Yamaha [I don't even look Blue-ish] and tested my 'sight reading' from the screen, cause that just didn't look quite right to me, and sure enough - B-flat!!! Failed to mention it, as I thought that might be a little to A/R musically - and I didn't see your note to me about that, either, but I was 'working' out of town last week, and that post my not be here on the 'Old House' when I got done with my CAT-chup [shut UP, ALF!]
(who would have tried to rewrite that post here, but after spending a late night taking in a live show at Chicago's legendary Green Mill jazz club -- perhaps the oldest in the U.S. -- can remember only the cool sounds I heard there, including a surprisingly credible torch rendition of "And I Love Her" by a female singer (singing it as "And he loves her"), backed by piano, bass, and drums)
Hey! BEEN THERE!! that sounds like a good one!! - and McCartney's tour sched should be made public TODAY - SO I will be back in the Coldest Place on Earth [temp wise, not people wise] in Mid April!! [actually have my exposed head FREEZE OVER there in 1989!!]
thanks for the musical 'note' [emblgh]
LOT Ringo's
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Hi Vlad I'm new to this board and as for the Jerimieah question about being Barn's uncle I think the writers locked themselves into this with a scene in 67 where Barn is telling Julia about his Uncle Jerimieah. In that scene he talks about OLD Jerimieah marrying Josette so of course that changed too in 1795! In the beginning of the show it was revealed that Jerimieah built Collinwood too - so I guess the character had a pre-history of being a family elder who was a great architect so making him turn out to be Barn's brother woudn't have worked. I guess. I liked the revival series having Jeri being Barn's younger brother -it made more sense.
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Hi Vlad I'm new to this board and as for the Jerimieah question about being Barn's uncle I think the writers locked themselves into this with a scene in 67 where Barn is telling Julia about his Uncle Jerimieah. In that scene he talks about OLD Jerimieah marrying Josette so of course that changed too in 1795! In the beginning of the show it was revealed that Jerimieah built Collinwood too - so I guess the character had a pre-history of being a family elder who was a great architect so making him turn out to be Barn's brother woudn't have worked. I guess. I liked the revival series having Jeri being Barn's younger brother -it made more sense.
Hi, Thom ...
My apologies for not responding to your post sooner -- learning to navigate on the new board has been time-consuming, and I fogot to respond the first time I saw your post -- anyway, a belated welcome to the board (in case no one else has already welcomed you!) :) And thanks for the info!
:) :) :)
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An observation made in the episode where "Rev." Trask arrived ...
This was the first time I noticed that you could really see outside the front entrance of the Old House ... maybe it was the camera angle or something ... but anyway, you could see the wide front portico and its pillars beyond the front door.
In other words, the view DID correspond with the outside shots we have of the old house. There must be steps going up to the portico in front, just as in the slides!
I'm not sure now if this works from what we saw of Vicky's arrival at the old house in 1795. Could she have been on a porch? If not, perhaps she was at a different entrance to the house?
(This topic was discussed way back in a "Missing Stairs" thread -- uncertain of name of thread on old board.)
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Originally posted by Rosaetta on the Dark Shadows: General Discussion Forum on March 11, 2002 at 00:52:07:
In Reply to: Re: More 1795 Comments posted by Ben on February 28, 2002 at 06:33:46:
Yeah, she really has that zinger-look with her eyes down cold. And I never tire watching her mouth and jaw tremble with rage.You're both right.
I do get a kick out of how Angelique can give a look, and that satisfied smirk she gives after creating some revenge is a sight to behold too. About clothes, In the 91 series, they had Vicki borrow some gowns from Angelique, which struck me funny because the actress playing Vicki in that series was shorter than the actress playing Angelique. I wonder if Lara Paker's novel is still out there. I would love to read it. I often think the whole 1795 story is kind of a dark humour at anyone who thinks the past was romantic dances and pretty gowns. I did see all of the series and someone who wrote a concordance about it, often felt there were gaps in telling Angelique's story. I guess that's for the viewers to supply those missing pieces. I recall how in the early days of the series they had a different picture of Josette in the Collins family history book.
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I wonder if Lara Paker's novel is still out there. I would love to read it. I often think the whole 1795 story is kind of a dark humour at anyone who thinks the past was romantic dances and pretty gowns. I did see all of the series and someone who wrote a concordance about it, often felt there were gaps in telling Angelique's story.
ANGELIQUE'S DESCENT is definitely available at Amazon and Barnes & Noble. I haven't checked to see if they still have it up, but for a while Amazon.com has been offering a special discount to buy AD and DREAMS OF THE DARK at the same time.
(Not at all a shameless plug, by the way.) ;)
[shadow=red,left,300]--Mark[/shadow]
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Not at all a shameless plug, by the way.)
Sez You![smrtasy]
[shadow=teal,left,300]Always, Minja[/shadow]
Seriously, Dreams Of The Dark is a must read. Surf over to Amazon and order your copy today!
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(Not at all a shameless plug, by the way.) ;)
No it's not shameless- it's mercenary... ;D
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An observation made in the episode where "Rev." Trask arrived ...
This was the first time I noticed that you could really see outside the front entrance of the Old House ... maybe it was the camera angle or something ... but anyway, you could see the wide front portico and its pillars beyond the front door.
In other words, the view DID correspond with the outside shots we have of the old house. There must be steps going up to the portico in front, just as in the slides!
More recently (i.e., when Trask was exorcising "the witch"), a large hedge seems to have been planted right outside the door, on the portico!
Could it have been in a moveable planter, I wonder? Strange that landscape work should have been done when the family had already moved to the new house!
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Hello, not sure where else to put in my 2 cents, so here goes.
I think it's kinda weird that everyone refers to the Old House as the "Old" house. Right away, before the "new" house, Collinwood, was even finished, they were referring to it as the Old house. Seems to me that they would refer to the old house as the "house" and Collinwood as the "new" house. Also weird that when Barn got to 1965, he seemed stumped up by calling it the "old" house. Also, the ghost of Sarah Collins and even Josette seem to favor hauting the old house even though they have both moved to the new house. Sarah even acted as though she had never even heard about the new house.
ALSO, and I'm not sure when Josette will meet her fate, but it seems she is in mourning and has spent alot of time in that black dress. Weird that her ghost is always dancing around in a white nightie...
small little things like that...
Latisha
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It's hard to reconcile Angelique/Miranda. Maybe when she arrived in Martinique she put a spell on them to make them think they'd known her since childhood.
On the other hand maybe Angelique is simply reincarnated from Miranda. Angelique dies so often on this show it's hard to say half the time if she's alive or if she's a ghost - it doesn't seem to matter much one way or another!
As for Jeremiah - I agree I liked the "correction" they made in the revival series of making Jeremiah Barnabas' brother rather than his uncle. I also preferred Victoria being the reincarnation of Josette rather than Maggie, even if this did leave Maggie with very little to do.
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ALSO, and I'm not sure when Josette will meet her fate, but it seems she is in mourning and has spent alot of time in that black dress. Weird that her ghost is always dancing around in a white nightie...
small little things like that...
Strange as it seems, the white dress, Josette favored as a ghost was not night attire, but was something that a Regency lady might have worn in company. The second dress Angelique wore was very similiar, IIRC.
Then too, there's that good ole' haunted house tradition of the ghost wearing the white dress, maybe they were sticking to that. As they will later on when yet another household servant shows up with an overly elaborate coiffure and a dress that there is simply no way she could ever, ever, have afforded.
Luciaphil
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One thing that struck me odd during the 1795 storyline is how easily Angelique accepted Joshua's large sum of money/gold to leave town after Barnabas had died. It just seems so out of character for her as she never seemed so interested in money before. As soon as Joshua left, she signed that document real fast without even giving it a second thought. Im sure with all her powers she could have conjured up money before if she really needed it. Everything else she did fit her character well, but this really didn't fit in.
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One thing that struck me odd during the 1795 storyline is how easily Angelique accepted Joshua's large sum of money/gold to leave town after Barnabas had died. It just seems so out of character for her as she never seemed so interested in money before. As soon as Joshua left, she signed that document real fast without even giving it a second thought. Im sure with all her powers she could have conjured up money before if she really needed it. Everything else she did fit her character well, but this really didn't fit in.
I dunno. She obviously hated being a maid. All those remarks about finally getting what Mlle. Josette had gotten--the hats, the clothes, being a lady. Why would she have put up with all of that if she could have just flexed her witchly powers and gotten the money?
Luciaphil
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I don't know I think Angie planned to leave Collinwood after she had driven the stake into Barnabas why not have some nice funds to live in the style she could become accustom too. She really had no friends in town. If she left town with a nice sum of money she could shed her "once maid thing". Angelique could have a whole new life and a whole new beginning.
Birdie
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I don't know I think Angie planned to leave Collinwood after she had driven the stake into Barnabas why not have some nice funds to live in the style she could become accustom too. She really had no friends in town. If she left town with a nice sum of money she could shed her "once maid thing". Angelique could have a whole new life and a whole new beginning.
I agree with you Birdie. Without Barnabas, there was absolutely no reason for Angelique to remain in Collinwood.
She definitely was considering that "new life" for herself.
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I had wondered about Angelique accepting the money from Joshua this time round, but as you've explained, circumstances were different with this offer, and her decision does make sense. It's especially jarring that she's killed shortly afterward.
Just had to add a note about the "Moveable Cemetary." The Eagle Hill cemetary where David used to meet Sarah's ghost was some distance away (I had the feeling it was about a mile) from Collinwood in 1967.
But in 1795, it apparently is right outside the front door of the "New" house, as Sarah runs out the front door after spotting Barnabas, and presto! she's in the middle of the cemetary, just steps away from the Collins mausoleum!
::) ::) ::)
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Just had to add a note about the "Moveable Cemetary." The Eagle Hill cemetary where David used to meet Sarah's ghost was some distance away (I had the feeling it was about a mile) from Collinwood in 1967.
But in 1795, it apparently is right outside the front door of the "New" house, as Sarah runs out the front door after spotting Barnabas, and presto! she's in the middle of the cemetary, just steps away from the Collins mausoleum!
::) ::) ::)
Vlad,
I have a feeling some of the writers were not good at conveying a sense of time to the audience. This is true in other earlier episodes. Things seem to occur without the element of time lapse. So Sarah did not actually drop out the door into the cemetary. However, the set design for the cemetary scene was most likely positioned next to the doors of the Big House.
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This was the first time I noticed that you could really see outside the front entrance of the Old House ... maybe it was the camera angle or something ... but anyway, you could see the wide front portico and its pillars beyond the front door.
In other words, the view DID correspond with the outside shots we have of the old house. There must be steps going up to the portico in front, just as in the slides!
More recently (i.e., when Trask was exorcising "the witch"), a large hedge seems to have been planted right outside the door, on the portico!
Could it have been in a moveable planter, I wonder? Strange that landscape work should have been done when the family had already moved to the new house!
OK, today's first episode left no doubt. Daniel was playing on the broad front portico of the old house. Several pillars were in the shot. So anyone approaching the door of the Old House is on this portico (not sure if that's the proper term, it's just what we called ours).
Most of the shots are apparently too tight for us to realize that the portico and stairs leading up to it are there, just as the long shots (the slides) of the Old House and the video footage used early in the series show.
:) :) :)