DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '03 I => Topic started by: TERRY308 on May 26, 2003, 04:16:57 PM
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Why don't they have and/or celebrate holidays at Collinsport?
It seems to me they could take an hour or two to celebrate. The 4th, Halloween, Easter and the big one....Christmas.
I know they have alot on their minds, but come on Barnabas honey, lets celebrate something......anything. [beer]
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I've always wondered that, too. From my recollections, the holidays were only mentioned twice: I think once during the Laura Collins storyline, and at the beginning of the Leviathan story, when Julia asked Carolyn if she was doing some early Christmas shopping. Beyond that, they must've all been pilgrims (heck, not even that - they never even once mentioned Thanksgiving).
Gerard
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Would the absence of any holidays being celebrated in Collinwood possibly be a part of the Collins curse?
not only dealing with the supernatural but not being able to celebrate any of the holidays as others do?
I wonder... ::)
Sarah's [ghost]
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Why don't they have and/or celebrate holidays at Collinsport?
It seems to me they could take an hour or two to celebrate. The 4th, Halloween,
I think they celebrate "Halloween" every day at Collinwood!!
It would be nice to see some sort of celebrating the holidays on the show but they always seem to have had so many problems to deal with that I guess they had no time for them.
:)
Deb
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Would the absence of any holidays being celebrated in Collinwood possibly be a part of the Collins curse?
not only dealing with the supernatural but not being able to celebrate any of the holidays as others do?
I wonder... ::)
Sarah's [ghost]
No carved jack-o-lanterns? No turkey basting in the oven? No dreidels? No chestnuts roasting on an open fire next to a glimmering star-topped tree? No exchange of Valentine's cards? No luscious lamb dinner with scrumptious matzah soup? No baskets filled with chocolate and jelly beans? No honoring America's military departed with parades, wolfing down hamburgers and swilling beer? No sparklers sizzling in the night with the sound of popping fire-crackers?
Oh, I'd be able to tolerate having a vampire around. I'd get use to the ghosts trying to snatch the living away to their world. I'd leave a bowl of kibble out for the werewolf. But the curse of having no celebrations of the holidays? Why, I would just end it all by entering that cursed room in PT1841, locking the door, and throwing away the key.
Gerard
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The timing never seemed to be right to stop the story and do some Christmas episodes or work the holidays in the background with Trees and lights as other shows do.
1966 would actually have been the best time as the Bill Malloy murder story had just ended and the Laura story was just slowly getting started, so they could have had some holiday shows or scenic design.
1967 was too busy with 1795 and the leading up to Barnabas marrying Angelique. It was not a good storyline to incorporate Christmas into.
1968 is the same as 1966 in that the Adam/Nicholas/Angelique story was over and Quentin's haunting had begun. But it was also a transitional time as some cast members were leaving and they had to use episodes to write them out.
1969 is the Leviathan story and at least we got in one Christmas reference in the first Leviathan episode. Though this is not a plot to incorporate Christmas so easy into.
1970 saw the 1840 story approaching it's end as well as 1841 Parallel Time on the horizion. Things were going so fast, there was no way to place the holidays in the plot.
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I wonder if it was thought that the merriment and gaeity of the holidays would detract from the somber, Gothic goings-ons ... or interject an unwanted shot of reality into the supernatural world DS created.
But I wish they had had Christmas, at least ... :'(
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Christmas at Collinwood could have been amazing - can't you just see the foyer with a massive tree and decorations everywhere! What a sight that would have been...
Far from detracting, I think the juxtaposition of the festive ambience with the usual DS horrors could have been extremely memorable. There are so many opportunities it presents to delve into the macabre - I can just picture Satan - no, that's not a typo - leaving a gift under the tree, or some ribbon-festooned present oozing blood or whatever :P
With the exception of 1795, one could easily have incorporated the holidays any other year and still kept business as usual. I don't know about the US soaps, but UK ones like "EastEnders" never seem compromised by the festive season - indeed you can usually count on their Christmas installments to deliver death, misery and backstabbing aplenty... Nothing makes a better backdrop for something grisly than a bunch of people forced to enjoy one another's company, usually ;)
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The timing never seemed to be right to stop the story and do some Christmas episodes or work the holidays in the background with Trees and lights as other shows do.
1967 was too busy with 1795 and the leading up to Barnabas marrying Angelique. It was not a good storyline to incorporate Christmas into.
It woulda been kinda neat if, during the 1795/96 storyline, they did somehow work the holidays in, just for observing the historical perception of the writers as to how the Christmas season was observed in post-colonial New England. Of course, they could've had the characters saying that they weren't in much of a yuletide mood (what, with one family member having his face blown off, and another marrying a servant girl who turns out to be a witch, and the governess on trial for being a witch, and other sundry things getting in the way of making a good punch to toast the season), but just to hear one word or have one toast in honor of the festivities would've been interesting.
Gerard
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Christmas would not have been celebrated in New England in 1795. It was actually well into the first quarter of the 19th century before the deeply held Puritan horror of medieval feasting and merriment was tossed aside. (See "Inventing Christmas" by Jock Elliott)
In the 1897 storyline, however, celebrating Christmas with Victorian-era excess would have been completely appropriate and historically correct.
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Hey these people never went on vacation or did anything FUN!no swimming pools,or tennis courts
also it never snowed in Maine and i know Maine gets a ton of snow! i would have loved to see Nicolas Blair dressed up as Santa and Willie as his elf helper!
jennifer
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The timing never seemed to be right to stop the story and do some Christmas episodes or work the holidays in the background with Trees and lights as other shows do.
I don't think it's a question of the timing never being right. If you're a writer, you take the situation and you make it fit. You don't have to go the conventional route and make it a Hallmark card. Lots of other ways to treat it.
Same thing with weddings. Those are a ratings bonanza for most soaps and viewers, even those who don't usually watch a program will tune in to catch a wedding episode. On DS, those were usually meager little shotgun affairs.
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I think the budget had a lot to do with that lack of celebrating. The other thing was probably that they wanted what happened on the show to be in this bubble that was outside of any real time or place, despite occasional references to reality, such as people dropping in from NYC, Boston, or Augusta (or London!). Jonathan Frid mentioned in an interview once that he thought this timelessness was one of the show's strengths. And it helped keep you from wondering why their Xmas decorations were so tawdry and cheap looking... just think of that "glamorous" gold lame bag Liz was wielding when she was thinking of shooting Julia!
I personally like it that nothing was ever celebrated on DS, but I am an odd duck, to understate things. It just gives the show a quality that sets it apart from other TV series.
It is very sad about the weddings, though, especially Carolyn's.
Gothick
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Jonathan Frid mentioned in an interview once that he thought this timelessness was one of the show's strengths. ... I personally like it that nothing was ever celebrated on DS
I agree.
And while I do think it might have been nice had they actually showed a flake or two of snow (but then, most characters even seemed to be able to brave violent thunderstorms without so much as a hair out of place or even the slightest indication of dampness on their coats ;)), at the same time I think the lack of snow also helps to place DS outside the realm of the usual reality.
It is very sad about the weddings, though, especially Carolyn's.
Also agreed. But as Luciaphil rightly points out, what wedding on DS was actually a cause for celebration? Characters were generally forced into them, marrying for all the wrong reasons, and/or making the biggest mistakes of their lives. Not much happiness there. ::)
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Also agreed. But as Luciaphil rightly points out, what wedding on DS was actually a cause for celebration? Characters were generally forced into them, marrying for all the wrong reasons, and/or making the biggest mistakes of their lives. Not much happiness there. ::)
That's not very different than any other soap. I remember the Luke and Laura wedding was a big deal and she was getting married to her rapist.
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on DS was actually a cause for celebration? ... Not much happiness there. ::)
That's not very different than any other soap. I remember the Luke and Laura wedding was a big deal and she was getting married to her rapist.
No, no, no - in the GH PTB's view of things, that was never a rape - it was a seduction. ::) But regardless of who's view is the correct one, there's no disputing the fact that by the time they married, Luke and Laura were deeply in love with each other and neither was keeping a secret from the other. So, their marriage was a cause for celebration.
On DS, was there ever any couple (other than perhaps Vicki and Jeff) where at least one member was NOT keeping secrets from the other? And as hard as I find it to accept, at least Carolyn and Jeb were in love. But, my God, HE was keeping so many deep, dark secrets from her that it's hard to keep count of them all! [laugh]
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on DS was actually a cause for celebration? ... Not much happiness there. ::)
That's not very different than any other soap. I remember the Luke and Laura wedding was a big deal and she was getting married to her rapist.
No, no, no - in the GH PTB's view of things, that was never a rape - it was a seduction. ::) But regardless of who's view is the correct one, there's no disputing the fact that by the time they married, Luke and Laura were deeply in love with each other and neither was keeping a secret from the other. So, their marriage was a cause for celebration.
On DS, was there ever any couple (other than perhaps Vicki and Jeff) where at least one member was NOT keeping secrets from the other? And as hard as I find it to accept, at least Carolyn and Jeb were in love. But, my God, HE was keeping so many deep, dark secrets from her that it's hard to keep count of them all! [laugh]
What I meant to show by the Luke and Laura example was to show that all soap weddings have some weird, twisted angle. I am not a soap watcher but every once in awhile I catch a glimpse or two. For example, the stage is set for a lavish wedding and the doctor runs in to announce the couple are actually half-siblings, or the ex-husband shows up to announce they are still married, etc. etc. The upshot is that all other soaps have lavish weddings regardless of the circumstances. I just think DC was a short-sighted tightwad and blew a ratings and advertising bonanza.
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I just think DC was a short-sighted tightwad
Ya think? ::) ;)
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I would have dearly loved to see a Halloween episode with all the DS characters attending a costume party. Can't you just see Nicholas Blair, dressed as the devil? Angelique with a traditional pointed witch hat and broom? Carolyn dressed up as Little Bo Peep and Jeb dressed up as a Sheep? Maggie, dressed as Little Orphan Annie? Sabrina dressed as Little Red Riding Hood and Chris dressed up as the Big Bad Wolf? Heck Chris wouldn't even need a costume.
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Yeah, all that stuff would have been fun once in a while - at times, I think "Dark Shadows" really needed to be more of a conventional soap. The fantasy stuff was great when it worked, but it was a mistake thinking that it was the be-all and end-all.
One of the sad things for me was the way increasingly they lost a sense of the day-to-day stuff for the characters - I think it's a massive failure that the show never really did a death that counted. I can't think of a single time where I got a sense of the grief and pain that situation should bring, or the long-term effect it should have on the people it touches.
When it worked, the fantasy element really did enhance the drama and underlying themes of the stories, but as time wore on it seemed to anaesthetize the emotional side, leaving it unrewarding by default. Never confuse incident with drama, I guess.
At times, just simple things like giving gifts at Christmas, or sharing a family meal could have done a lot to remind you that this was a (mostly) normal family, and brought some identification for the audience.
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Boy, I couldn't agree more, Stuart. They did make things look more "homey" in the first season regarding the everyday things normal people do. That, to me, constituted some of the best scenes. Such as the ones set in restaurants with people dining in the background, waiters coming and going. Or Carolyn cuttin' a rug to rock'n'roll with hordes of other twisting cats and moondoggers at the Blue Whale packing the dance floor. And just seeing them in the kitchen at the breakfast table, the toaster right over there on the counter. Don't forget seeing - who was it? Carolyn, I think - ironing. Vampires, werewolves, ghosts, witches, Phoenixes and Lovecraftian monsters may cause turmoil, but you still gotta eat and get the laundry done.
Kinduvan aside, with regards to PT1970, I always thought it would've been neat if they had made mention about other "slight" differences on a more major scale. Imagine them mentioning President Humphrey, or alluding that there had never been any World Wars (the Kaiser still was the now-constitutional monarch of Germany, the Hapsburgs were the same in Austria-Hungary, and even the Czar in St. Petersburg). Stuff like that would've just fascinated me.
Gerard
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It's too bad DS never had any major weddings or holiday celebrations. Halloween seemed so perfect for DS, much like St. Patrick's Day was perfect for Ryan's Hope. Maybe if the show had run longer they would've finally gotten to that. As much as I love the supernatural elements of the show, I miss the mostly character driven plots of the first year and the ones that continued until the beginning/end of 1795. At least then the characters were presented as normal people who had to do the laundry, etc.
It's too bad DS never had any major wedding ceramonies, even the most corrupt marriages. I wonder if the wedding of Victoria and Jeff would've been more lavish if Alexandra Moltke had stayed with the show. It seemed like the characters were planning a great wedding for Vicki, and I loved the wedding dream sequence. Same goes for Carolyn and Jeb, even though Jeb was very deceitful. There were also some others, though they were mostly in other time periods. Things like this make me wish DS had retained more normal soap elements.
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One of the sad things for me was the way increasingly they lost a sense of the day-to-day stuff for the characters - I think it's a massive failure that the show never really did a death that counted. I can't think of a single time where I got a sense of the grief and pain that situation should bring, or the long-term effect it should have on the people it touches.
I totally agree Stuart. It bothered me the most when a family member died and the next day everyone suddenly came down with a case of amnesia. For instance when Carl Collins was killed it seemed as if the family just wanted to get the whole funeral thing over with. I mean this was their brother for goodness sakes! I think the only one who really took his death seriously and mourned him was Charity/Pansy Faye. I realize they didn't have the time to dwell on things but it would have been nice to at least hear a mention of the deceased with a fond memory every now and then.
Cassandra
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For instance when Carl Collins was killed it seemed as if the family just wanted to get the whole funeral thing over with. I mean this was their brother for goodness sakes! I think the only one who really took his death seriously and mourned him was Charity/Pansy Faye. I realize they didn't have the time to dwell on things but it would have been nice to at least hear a mention of the deceased with a fond memory every now and then.
Cassandra
I hated that too Cassandra! Felt bad for poor Carl and how everyone just shrugged off his death as "just another day" in Collinwood. I would have liked to have seen him and Charity get together after she became possessed by Pansy Faye! I think the two of them would be good together.
Deb
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When I watched DS back in the 60's and early 70's, I was also watching other soaps--AMC, The Doctors, GH, Ryan's Hope--all of which celebrated holidays up the ying yang. By the time DS came on, I was actually relieved to see a show that bypassed the Christmas trees, Irish merriment and Thanksgiving celebrations. With DS standing by itself now, I guess the lack of holiday celebration is more glaring, but I didn't really miss it.
To me, DS was almost a parallel universe unto itself. They never mentioned the Vietnam war or any other historically-related events (although I think they DID mention the moon landing). When they did bring up references like that, or rare holiday mentions, it seemed to bring in a whiff of reality that seemed out of place--IMHO, anyway.
Granted, I can see some poignant scenes featuring the Collins family, (happy, just for one day!) around a huge Christmas tree, Barnabas and Roger as excited about opening their gifts as David and Amy.
DARK SHADOWS was rushed from one cliffhanger to another towards the end of the series, to its detriment, some believe. Remember, though, it was very much aimed at children, and children, like Dan Curtis, have a short attention span. He was forcing his writers to produce scripts targeted at that audience.
Love, Robin
PS - Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Halloween, and every other holiday to the Collins family!
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Granted, I can see some poignant scenes featuring the Collins family, (happy, just for one day!) around a huge Christmas tree, Barnabas and Roger as excited about opening their gifts as David and Amy.
Or Roger being severely hung over from the night before . . . David complaining that he didn't get the gift he wanted . . . Julia and/or Angelique fighting who's going to linger under the mistletoe . . . Mrs. Johnson trying to get the kiddies to save the wrapping paper so she can iron it out for next year . . . Liz acting gracious over the cheap drug store perfume David got her . . . and then of course, the obligatory family fight over politics and/or dredging up of family gripes and grievances ::)
Think about it. Could be fun. 8)