DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '03 I => Topic started by: Joeytrom on May 25, 2003, 09:56:09 PM
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The disastor of the Leviathan story may explain why Christopher Bernau and Geoffrey Scott were not used anymore (GS wasn't a good actor anyway). I am puzzled as to why they decided to keep Christopher Pennock, as his acting was not so great in and his character of Jeb was the center of the story, one would think they would have let him go as well to distance themselves from the Leviathan story altogether.
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Christopher Bernau and Geoffrey Scott were not used anymore (GS wasn't a good actor anyway). I am puzzled as to why they decided to keep Christopher Pennock
I think it came down to one simple reason: popularity. Unlike Bernau and Scott, Pennock generated a lot of positive fan mail (makes you wonder what sort of substances the people who wrote those letters were on? [lghy]). and he quickly became the focus of a lot of favorable press (mostly in the teen mags). DC was always one to think those two ingredients translated into ratings success. ;)
Scott was a lost cause. Bernau may have grown on the audience. But in DC's estimation, Pennock was a proven commodity. And actually, given how subsequent roles really got to showcase his talents, it was a smart choice to have kept Pennock around. [thumb]
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I'm not sure what the rest of you are seeing when you look at Chris Pennock on the screen, but obviously I'm not seeing it. I can't think of one thing about him that I would consider sexy. Certainly the character he's playing is not. Petulance and whining are never sexy. ::)
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It's too bad they didn't keep Christopher Bernau. I like him as Philip. It's too bad what the Levithans are doing to him and Megan.
Geoffrey Scott isn't as bad as I thought he would be, but he's still pretty wooden. Thank God he improved a little by the time he was on Dynasty.
Even though I think Christopher Pennock is in the ranks of Roger Davis when it comes to his role as Jeb, I'm glad they kept him. I thought he was good in the 1840 storyline as Gabriel.
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Certainly the character he's playing is not. Petulance and whining are never sexy. ::)
Well, never underestimate the power of a purely superficial attraction. For the life of me I can't imagine what other reason would have prompted people to write so much fan mail for Pennock at this point. I don't think most really even saw or actually cared about Jeb. ;) (But any that did must have been some pretty twisted individuals. [lghy])
(And truthfully, I think a purely superficial attraction from the audience is what carried RD so far on the show. God help them if his fans were actually attracted to his characters!! :o)
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Well, never underestimate the power of a purely superficial attraction.
But that's the part I don't get....I don't see the superficially attractive thing at all!
Let's be honest....as characters go Willie Loomis could be pretty damned pathetic.....but he always had that "lost puppy" look going for him and some of us are suckers for that sort of thing. ::)
Jeb, on the other hand, runs the full gamut of expressions from smug to snotty. What aspect of this character had them swooning in the aisles?
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What aspect of this character had them swooning in the aisles?
Now, isn't that a frightening, if not loaded question?! [shockeyes] (It's also the major reason I think the whole Jeb/Carolyn romance is incomprehensible from start to finish!!)
But I honestly think for the audience that wrote in, it was purely an attraction to Pennock himself, not his character. At least I hope so...
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Like we all haven't known our share of witless women who just never seem to recognize the devil 'till they're dancing with him.
In real life, though, guys like that generally don't show their true colors until they're closing in for the kill....not at the begining of the hunt. Jeb came on to Carolyn like a train wreck, and while the girl always had Daddy Issues, she was never portrayed as stupid until this. >:(
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she was never portrayed as stupid until this. >:(
Exactly! I've written extensively about that very fact every time this portion of Leviathans has come up on Sci-Fi, so I'll spare everyone my usual diatribe this time around ;), but the sad fact of the matter is that the DS writers (or more possibly DC) seemingly couldn't resist eventually ruining all of their female characters. It's actually a wonder that Carolyn managed to remain unscathed for as long as she did... (It also makes one wish Art Wallace would have stayed with the show for its entire run. But he and DC might have possibly killed each other by this point if he had. :- )
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....the sad fact of the matter is that the DS writers (or more possibly DC) seemingly couldn't resist eventually ruining all of their female characters.
And is there some concensus on WHY this seems to be the practice on DS? Did they all have harpys for Mothers? Bad marriages all around? Or wasn't it more likely just a product of the times? How easy it is to forget that back then, strong female characters were exceptions to the general rules, and either had to "reform" for love, or die in the end?
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....the sad fact of the matter is that the DS writers (or more possibly DC) seemingly couldn't resist eventually ruining all of their female characters.
And is there some concensus on WHY this seems to be the practice on DS? Did they all have harpys for Mothers? Bad marriages all around? Or wasn't it more likely just a product of the times? How easy it is to forget that back then, strong female characters were exceptions to the general rules, and either had to "reform" for love, or die in the end?
My guess is that it was a combination of two things. The first and simplest is that Curtis seems to have been (and to be) hipped on the stereotypical gothic heroines. However, while I seldom lose a chance to knock the man, the fact remains that a lot made it onto the show with which he evidently did not approve.
DS was a pretty plot-driven show, at least it became so after Wallace left the fold. Keeping character integrity intact while trying to manuever characters into the needed situations is not easy writing. It takes effort to make a character's actions consistent with the character's personality. Wallace and Swann were pretty adept at that. The other writers were less so.
And actually, in this instance, I think that Carolyn's romance to Jeb was a lot easier to try and write than it would have been trying to have say, Vicki fall for someone like Jeb. She had the history of liking angry and unsuitable men. She was in emotional turmoil over the death of her father. They really just needed to either make him a little more slick or to have done a couple more episodes which would have slowed the pacing down and made this slightly more plausible.
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DS was a pretty plot-driven show, at least it became so after Wallace left the fold. Keeping character integrity intact while trying to manuever characters into the needed situations is not easy writing. It takes effort to make a character's actions consistent with the character's personality. Wallace and Swann were pretty adept at that. The other writers were less so.
I agree completely that keeping a character's actions in line with an already established personality, while moving the plot where one wants it to go, is not easy. But I have to ask if that ability shouldn't be the very LEAST of one's talents as a writer. Especially a writer in this genre. If you can't do THAT, what on earth are your qualifications for the job?
I always come back to my lasting suspicion that there was very little respect for the audience involved here, and "good enough" was the prevailing standard.
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But I have to ask if that ability shouldn't be the very LEAST of one's talents as a writer. Especially a writer in this genre. If you can't do THAT, what on earth are your qualifications for the job?
I couldn't agree with you more. (This is getting very dangerous today! [lghy]) But...
I always come back to my lasting suspicion that there was very little respect for the audience involved here, and "good enough" was the prevailing standard.
...Sad to say, a lot of the dumbing down within the storylines came directly from DC. If one reads the accounts of the inner workings of the show (at least the ones that don't come out of PomPress - but don't get me started there) one learns about all sorts of, shall we say, "heated discussions" the producers/writers had with DC over storyline direction. Sometimes they won (as was the case with making Barn sympathetic with the whole reluctant vampire/Sarah angle), but more often DC won out.
FYI, according to Sam Hall, there were huge rows over the directions of Leviathans. Guess who won most of those? ::) In fact, Hall went so far as to say that DC would say something to the effect that this is the way I want the story to go, and if you don't want to write it, there are plenty of other writers in NYC who will...
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I couldn't agree with you more. (This is getting very dangerous today! [lghy]) But...
Quit doing that. You're making me nervous! [angrg]
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I thought he was pretty good as Cyrus Longworth/John Yeager.
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I always come back to my lasting suspicion that there was very little respect for the audience involved here, and "good enough" was the prevailing standard.
Gosh, this is almost a direct quote (quite coincidental, I'm sure :)) from a rather infamous post I made last year, although that was still a little further down the road in Leviathan ... but if you are getting that impression already, well, let's just say you'll have even more reason to in the near future ...
I'm pretty much fast-forwarding through things at this point, especially with Friday's really bad episodes (including the unexpected triage of my three "favorite" DS actors ;D ) ... the only high point I remember from this point on in the storyline is Angelique (though possibly I'm forgetting some good things since I don't really remember how much longer Leviathan goes on). ... I remember I was still defending Leviathan for the most part until much closer to the end -- even the unexpected news about Victoria Winters that's coming up (which seemed to get most people in a dither).
The good news about Pennock is that he is quite a bit more tolerable as Gabriel in the 1840 storyline, though he still enjoyed mugging the camera.
I remember expressing a similar opinion last time regarding Carolyn's stupidity as MB mentions ... you'd think she would have some sense of listening to her own instincts, especially when re-inforced by some extraordinary dreams, not to mention warnings from others, but ...
On the other hand, I suppose we all have ignored our better instincts and judgment and gut feelings at times, and have been sorry for it afterwards. I just viewed an extreme case of this in a made-for-TV re-run miniseries on Lifetime, where a woman seemingly assisted in her own (and her two young children's) murder(s) ... withdrawing all her savings to turn over to her "future husband" (yeah, right), rewriting her will to make him her sole beneficiary, taking out a number of staggering life insurance policies on herself, naming said "future husband" sole beneficiary of course. I mean, how dumb can you get? Pretty sad case, though. The things people do for love ...
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I think it came down to one simple reason: popularity. Unlike Bernau and Scott, Pennock generated a lot of positive fan mail (makes you wonder what sort of substances the people who wrote those letters were on?
Aw, c'mon MB, Jeb was grrrooovy, baby!!! 8)
Bernau may have simply accepted another job offer after the Phillip Todd character was bumped off. (I have a tough time believing Geoffrey Scott was offered another job elsewhere, but I guess anything is possible.)
Marie Wallace probably would have been written back into the show at some point if she hadn't taken another soap job after the Megan character was bumped off. She had a lot of "down time" between her DS stints and a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush, so to speak.
I love the story she relays, wherein she received a call from her agent on the last day of the Megan Todd storyline, asking her if she wanted to audition for a part on Secret Storm. "I think I'd better," she replied, "because they're putting a stake through my heart this afternoon." ;D
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if she wanted to audition for a part on Secret Storm
That would have been Another World - Somerset, but I'm sure you knew that and simply made a mistake (something we're all guilty of from time to time ;)). And Marie was quite incredible as India Delany.
My most vivid memory of Marie on the show (which I happily got to joke about at length with her at the 1989 Red Zone party) was after India got bopped over the head with a gold candlestick to the tune of "Theme from Shaft" (and "her" motionless body laid behind a couch for two weeks while Marie was actually off on vacation), she got to confront her attacker (after recovering from her bout with amnesia, of course [lol3]) with the immortal line, "I haven't just pulled the rug out from under you, darling - I've pulled out the wall-to-wall carpeting!" [lghy]
Aw, c'mon MB, Jeb was grrrooovy, baby!!! 8)
As for Jeb, well, trust me, you don't want to hear (read) what I'd have to say about that comment! [wink2]
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Yeah, baby, Jeb and his personal Naga are simply shag-a-delic!
Jeb was clearly DS's version of the typical hipster-gone-bad character that appeared on so many Sixties shows. I'm sure that had a lot to do with his appeal back in the day.
Jeb's dialogue sounds even more dated than Buzz Hackett's, sometimes. I still remember this scene where he's discussing Maggie with Barnabas and gets this sudden gleam in his eyes and crows, "You DIG her, man!" Yeah, dude.
Gothick
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At the risk of drawing attention to my misuse of a word above, I meant to refer to the surprise "trio" of my favorite ;) DS actors appearing in last Friday's second ep ... but for some reason I must have been thinking about checking into a hospital instead ... probably one of the "mental" variety ... ;D
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I think what really irked me about Carolyn was how she remained in ignorant bliss about Jeb through the end of the series. That really caused me to lose sympathy for her character. I mean, I just couldn't like a character who was that dense.
(I have a tough time believing Geoffrey Scott was offered another job elsewhere, but I guess anything is possible.)
He actually did fine in his first scene in Tuesday's first episode, when he was talking on the phone before Angelique came in. I mean, that isn't much, but it does show potential. :)
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I think what really irked me about Carolyn was how she remained in ignorant bliss about Jeb through the end of the series. That really caused me to lose sympathy for her character. I mean, I just couldn't like a character who was that dense.
I always thought Millicent was the most dense of all the characters Nancy played on the show. Well maybe dense is the wrong word, but undoubtly she was sooooooo gullible as far as Nathan was concerned. [spoiler]One minute she wanted to kill him when she found out about Suki then she wants to marry him because he saved her life (it never occured to her he could have set the whole thing up, especially since he was forbidden by Joshua to come on the estate?)....calling him a man of "true splendor" and a "gentleman" I just had to roll my eyes...[/spoiler]
Don't get me wrong, I loved Nancy in just about every role she played but Millicent of all the characters she played was my least favorite. Do love Carolyn, Charity [spoiler](once she was possessed by Pansy Faye),[/spoiler] Leticia and Melaine with a passion! :)