DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '26 I => Current Talk '03 I => Topic started by: Luciaphile on April 02, 2003, 05:19:11 PM
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Okay, let's talk.
The more I watch this plot, the more creeped out I get. Is it just me?
This business about "lose yourself in Josette and you'll be happy" Is Kitty really Josette's reincarnation? Is that how it works? If that's the case, why is Josette speaking to Kitty and telling her to "let me live through you."
Barnabas saying that line, just another variation of "it can't mean that much to you, Judy" or "I don't care what you went through before or who you really are, I just want you to fit my image of my ideal and I don't understand why you're fighting me on that" isn't surprising. It's the same old song, same old dance, same old psychosis.
But now we've got Josette's spirit giving Kitty a milder version of that "let me live through you" (translation, let me take over). If Kitty is truly the reincarnation of Josette, shouldn't the spirit be in Kitty. Shouldn't Kitty already be Josette? So why are they having a dialogue?
I realize all this is complicated by that damn hand, but nothing is matching up for me.
And on another note, count me among the group of viewers who think Barnabas should have come up with a better and different cover story. An Englishman would not have messed up Kitty's title like that: It's Lady Hampshire. Not Lady Kitty.
Sigh . . .
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Luciaphil, I agree with everything you say about this plot. I know they brought this in just to boost the sagging ratings (according to Grayson, the ratings were down in the latter months of 1897), but, not only does the story not make any sense, it's downright creepy to watch. The music and lighting and scripts help make it all seem extra creepy.
I don't think the DS writers ever really grasped what reincarnation means. A lot of Sixties writers adopted these concepts without properly researching them. Here they seem to confusing reincarnation with metempsychosis (i. e. Josette's soul is out there floating on the astral, waiting to take up residence in Kitty's body).
btw, warning that there is a CDT/Aristede scene coming up in a day or two that could make you seriously nauseous. Keeping your hand close to the fast foward button on the remote.
Gothick
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And on another note, count me among the group of viewers who think Barnabas should have come up with a better and different cover story. An Englishman would not have messed up Kitty's title like that: It's Lady Hampshire. Not Lady Kitty.
Sigh . . .
I don't think Barnabas messed up Kitty's title. I think the writers did. Lady Kitty sounds classy and playful. When I watched this as a kid, I would not have known the difference. Heck, I don't think my mother would have known the difference either and she liked to read gossip about British royalty.
I agree with Gothick. The writers seemed obsessed with possession and seemed to think reincarnation was the same thing. Just act spacey and vacant suddenly you are Josette. It is a shame the writing staff had so little imagination. This could have been taken in so many directions. Edward and Kitty getting married while she longs for Barnabas. Barnabas and Kitty getting married and Barnabas discoveres the bloom is off the rose(not tonight, I have a headache). Lady Kitty discovers Barnabas is all romance and no substance and no money. Oh well.
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Okay, let's talk....An Englishman would not have messed up Kitty's title like that: It's Lady Hampshire. Not Lady Kitty.
Sigh . . .
And an Englishman should have an accent.
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Okay, let's talk....An Englishman would not have messed up Kitty's title like that: It's Lady Hampshire. Not Lady Kitty.
Sigh . . .
And an Englishman should have an accent.
Everybody should have had an accent. The were all Mainahs including Barnabas.
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I admit that I've also been feeling slightly uncomfortable about this particular storyline. Part of me would like to see Barnabas re-united with Josette. Yet this whole reincarnation/possession thing comes off as simply another substitute for happiness - with HIS happiness once again being the main consideration. I guess I'm not really buying the idea that Kitty isn't really Kitty but rather the "new Josette", and it really bugs me when people are victims of body theft [bite].
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And on another note, count me among the group of viewers who think Barnabas should have come up with a better and different cover story. An Englishman would not have messed up Kitty's title like that: It's Lady Hampshire. Not Lady Kitty.
Sigh . . .
I don't think Barnabas messed up Kitty's title. I think the writers did. Lady Kitty sounds classy and playful. When I watched this as a kid, I would not have known the difference. Heck, I don't think my mother would have known the difference either and she liked to read gossip about British royalty.
Point taken. Writers screwed up, not Barnabas.
Still, it's Lady Hampshire. She married into her title. She'd be Lady Kitty if she were the daughter of a duke or earl. Her daughter if she had one would be Lady (insert first name). First son would have father's secondary title. Successive sons would be the Honorable (insert first name).
Why do I know this? Because my brain is cluttered with all sorts of useless trivia and Love Boat dialogue. It's not that I set out to learn it, I just absorb it. While I forget the really important things like where I put my car keys ??? (by the way, if anyone knows the answer to that, I'd sure appreciate it, lol).
I agree with Gothick. The writers seemed obsessed with possession and seemed to think reincarnation was the same thing. Just act spacey and vacant suddenly you are Josette. It is a shame the writing staff had so little imagination. This could have been taken in so many directions. Edward and Kitty getting married while she longs for Barnabas. Barnabas and Kitty getting married and Barnabas discoveres the bloom is off the rose(not tonight, I have a headache). Lady Kitty discovers Barnabas is all romance and no substance and no money. Oh well.
It's the road not taken that irks so much, isn't it? I love all of those ideas and I think it could have made for some much better story.
What really kills me are those tantalizing throwaway lines. Like the fact that Gerald evidently had kiddies of his own. What happened to them? He committed a robbery and did time??? Makes me sure as heck want to know a lot more about Gerald and Kitty. The mention of Momma in PA, who evidently knows a lot more about Kitty than everyone else makes me deeply curious.
It's like they take us to the fair and show us the giant stuffed animal prize. Hit all the right targets and hand us the dinky stuffed snake.
dom wrote:
And an Englishman should have an accent.
Wordy McWord!
Luciaphil
(who sounds like the western New Yorker that she is)
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The Josette-talking-to-Lady-Kitty really didn't throw me for a loop (meaning, if she's the reincarnation of Josette, how can she hear Josette?). I just looked upon it as a sorta split-personality thing. And now one personality is getting ready to bury Sybil once and for all.
Gerard
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Luciaphil wrote:
This business about "lose yourself in Josette and you'll be happy" Is Kitty really Josette's reincarnation? Is that how it works? If that's the case, why is Josette speaking to Kitty and telling her to "let me live through you."
But now we've got Josette's spirit giving Kitty a milder version of that "let me live through you" (translation, let me take over). If Kitty is truly the reincarnation of Josette, shouldn't the spirit be in Kitty. Shouldn't Kitty already be Josette? So why are they having a dialogue?
Exactly my same thoughts when I watched the show today!! Im thinking to myself, "how the heck can the spirit of Josette be talking to Kitty when they're suppose to be one and the same.
Perhaps this kind of dialogue exchange would have worked better during the Maggie/Josette storyline when Barnabas was trying to turn Maggie into his beloved Josette. Then this would have worked out fine and made a bit more sense since they're two different souls.
We've had vampires' being able to see their reflection in the mirror and so on. D.S was never one to follow the rules so I guess this is just another one of those examples.
Cassandra[/font]
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It's the road not taken that irks so much, isn't it? I love all of those ideas and I think it could have made for some much better story.
What really kills me are those tantalizing throwaway lines. Like the fact that Gerald evidently had kiddies of his own. What happened to them? He committed a robbery and did time??? Makes me sure as heck want to know a lot more about Gerald and Kitty. The mention of Momma in PA, who evidently knows a lot more about Kitty than everyone else makes me deeply curious.
Could this be the start of more fan fiction? ;) BTW, I hope you find your car keys.
ProfStokes
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It's the road not taken that irks so much, isn't it? I love all of those ideas and I think it could have made for some much better story.
What really kills me are those tantalizing throwaway lines. Like the fact that Gerald evidently had kiddies of his own. What happened to them? He committed a robbery and did time??? Makes me sure as heck want to know a lot more about Gerald and Kitty. The mention of Momma in PA, who evidently knows a lot more about Kitty than everyone else makes me deeply curious.
Could this be the start of more fan fiction? ;) ProfStokes
I sure hope so! And Luciaphil can write it!
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On another board, someone has the theory (though the writers never bring it up) that the Leviathans are using an image of Josette to take over Kitty and lure her and Barnabas to 1796 to start their domination plot.
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Everybody should have had an accent. The were all Mainahs including Barnabas.
Thank you Onyx....actually, I think they're called 'Mainiac's (my sister lived in Maine/we were going to move to ME).
Patti
aye...
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Everybody should have had an accent. The were all Mainahs including Barnabas.
Thank you Onyx....actually, I think they're called 'Mainiac's (my sister lived in Maine/we were going to move to ME).
Patti
aye...
Ayah, Patti. I live in Maine and have never heard any Mainer refer to themselves as Maniacs. However, people not born here are referred to as "from away". The term "from away" is used as a put down or to excuse behavior that doesn't quite conform. I have lived here for about fourteen years and my children were born here. I think my great-grandchildren might qualify as Mainers. As for the rest of us, we will always be "from away".
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I was born on Long Island and mean to die on Long Island.....but despite the fact that I have always lived here, and I read constantly that we call this place 'lawn-guy-land', I have never in my life heard a native say it that way.
This stuff usually starts with people 'from away' and then takes on a life of it's own. You don't suppose it was someone from Maryland who first coined the term 'Baltimorons', do you? That was almost certainly started by a born-to-be-rude 'New Yawka". [lghy]
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onyx_treasure wrote:
Everybody should have had an accent. The were all Mainahs including Barnabas.
Being a native of Maine myself (albeit displaced in Florida at present) I am SOOOOOOO glad they didn't do that! Not many actors can get that accent right. Heck, I doubt I could even do it justice after after all the years I've spent trying not to sound that way!
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I was born on Long Island and mean to die on Long Island.....but despite the fact that I have always lived here, and I read constantly that we call this place 'lawn-guy-land', I have never in my life heard a native say it that way.
This stuff usually starts with people 'from away' and then takes on a life of it's own. You don't suppose it was someone from Maryland who first coined the term 'Baltimorons', do you? That was almost certainly started by a born-to-be-rude 'New Yawka". [lghy]
yeah you're right Rainey we don't have an accent here in Boston?people "from away" made that up!
jennifer
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I don't know about you folks up in Boston....but we Long Islanders DO have an accent. We just DON'T say "lawn-guy-land" :D
raineypark
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I don't know about you folks up in Boston....but we Long Islanders DO have an accent. We just DON'T say "lawn-guy-land" :D
raineypark
nah us!
jennifer(had some chowdah tonight)
know what you mean about lawn-guy-land always feel that way when i hear an actor doing a bad Boston accent! Ken Howard on Crossing Jordan comes to mind!
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Perhaps most American's would screw up the title of someone from England on purpose. Although we may be somewhat charmed by the 'upper' classes and their titles, we don't necessarily want to emulate their every move. Probably Edward would be the only Collins who would be super impressed by royalty and titles. Didn't Fenn-Gibbons gain access to Collinwood based on a letter of recommendation from a titled person?
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Perhaps most American's would screw up the title of someone from England on purpose. Although we may be somewhat charmed by the 'upper' classes and their titles, we don't necessarily want to emulate their every move. Probably Edward would be the only Collins who would be super impressed by royalty and titles. Didn't Fenn-Gibbons gain access to Collinwood based on a letter of recommendation from a titled person?
That's a very interesting point. At the time of the story, Wealthy Americans had been and still were busily intermarrying with the impoverished, if titled British aristocracy. Anyone catch The Buccaneers when PBS aired it last? That's what's happening in the late 1800s.
The regular 1897 folk would all probably be tripping overthemselves at the chance to interact with a countess, albeit an American girl with no cash (which of course they don't know).
I wonder though . . . Barnabas would have been around during the height of the anti-British sentiment in the 1700s . . .