DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '12 I => Topic started by: Lydia on May 02, 2012, 06:46:53 AM
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Robservations #202
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I'm still trying to figure out the relationship between Jason and Willie. Willie seems like such a dead loss! He hasn't enough intelligence to know what's good for him. Apparently this Collinwood invasion isn't Jason's usual routine, and Jason likes Willie enough to keep him around even when he's not needed for his muscle. I'd like to see Jason and Willie at some point when Willie is needed, just as I'd like to have had a flashback to the days ten years ago when Roger and Burke and Laura ran around together. Because, you see, I'm not at all like Jason. I'm not mean like Jason and I'm not fast-talking like Jason, and I can't imagine ever wanting to have Willie around. So I need to see it happening, more than I've seen so far.
Carolyn didn't act today as though she distrusted Jason. I guess it makes sense that she would ask him about her father because he's the first friend of her father's that she's known, but she still seemed like a different person from the Carolyn in yesterday's episode, who seemed like a different person from the Carolyn we had seen in Carolyn's next previous episode.
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AM reads the best opening voiceover EVER:
My name is Victoria Winters. The foundations of Collinwood house a frightful secret, a secret that has lain dormant for eighteen years, a secret awakened by a stranger. But there is another stranger, one who is to awaken and unleash a force that will affect the lives of everyone.
Hang on to your socks! [ghost_cheesy]
Jason has a hard time managing Willie, as we see here: You made me promises, Willie complains. You said everything would be great. We’d have the easy life. I could have everything I wanted--but what have I seen? Just that new suit you’re wearing. Well, what do you want--the top or the bottoms? Jason snaps. [ghost_cheesy]
Jason tells Willie that he's had this particular scheme in mind for eighteen years--talk about a loooooong con! Willie is more of a smash-and-grab type who wants his gratification yesterday and doesn't care if he has to get his hands dirty (short of murder, though, I'd guess) to get it. But he's unwilling to actually put any thought into it--that's Jason's department. I think Jason keeps Willie around for the dirty-hands part of his plans.
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We start off with some bad dancing at the Blue Whale - Elaine Benis bad. Willie zeros in on Maggie and gives a first rate example of being a masher. Maggie handles herself well in trying to fend him off, but since she refused a drink before he walked over, you'd think the bartender would be watching for trouble. Maggie and Sam are regulars, whereas Willie is a stranger. Willie doesn't take the hint when Joe shows up and only backs down once Jason arrives. Despite his seeming eagerness to mix it up, Willie reeks of bravado. His crossed arms and hunched shoulders have the feeling of someone who's been chastised. It's interesting how Jason is able to get Willie under control. Is this
[spoiler]a foreshadowing of what's to come in the Barnabas/Willie relationship?[/spoiler]
Jason and Willie converse. Maybe it's just me, but Dennis Patrick's energy seems low during this bit. Hall's delivery is often halting and pause laden, as if he's thinking. I don't think it serves the character or the Jason/Willie relationship. Jason is a fast talker and thinker and it seems he'd partner in crime with someone who runs a little more at his speed. I can't help but imagine how this episode might have played with a certain other actor. Regardless, Jason is sleazy and Willie is skeevy. Quite the duo.
Back at Collinwood, Jason plays to the manor born and helps himself to Roger's cigars. This is curious, since we've never seen Roger smoke one or even mention it, unless I'm mistaken. When talking to Carolyn, Jason opens his mouth and, true to form, spews some gilded blarney about Paul. Willie worms his way into Collinwood. His approach was rather clever; knowing Jason didn't want him there, he says Jason invited him. The gravy is in having a witness, Carolyn.
Willie introduces himself as "Willie Lowmiss," which is conclusive proof to me that this is not the real Willie Loomis.
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Some good catches there, MS! I liked it that Maggie and the bartender don't talk but mime, presumably so they don't have to pay the bartender for playing a speaking part.
But I'm not sure Jason has Willie under control. He could do nothing to prevent Willie from joining him at Collinwood. Willie had the upper hand there.
We learn that poor Carolyn has been desperate to learn any information about her father--her mother refuses to discuss him. Jason glibly tells her, Paul Stoddard was the kind of man that men liked--and women more so. He was charming, but always moving on. I was surprised when he married your mother, because he was a ladies’ man, not the type to settle down. He and your mother made a handsome couple--he with his charm, she with her great beauty. Paul Stoddard and I were very much alike, he declares.
[spoiler](Much later, Carolyn will discover how true his words are, when Dennis Patrick returns to play Paul Stoddard.)[/spoiler]
Jason adds, If Paul could see you now, he would be very proud of you.
[spoiler](Much later, this will also turn out to be true.)[/spoiler]
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[The text of the opening voiceover has been unspoilered since it's from this same ep.]
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I'm still trying to figure out the relationship between Jason and Willie.
I think subsequent episodes will define the relationship between Willie and Jason. And anyway, James Hall isn’t helping the character development whatsoever. Yuk!
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Boy, I would have loved to have seen Roger see Jason smoke his cigars...we saw how disgusted he was when Jason offered Roger some of ROGER's own brandy...what a fit Roger would have thrown if he had seen Jason helping himself to Roger's cigars.
If Jason wants everyone to treat him respectfully, a good way to do this is maybe NOT treat the residents in the house like they're the guest and you're the host and most particularly don't be hogging down their cigars without asking permission...but I have to say that I think Jason was at least discreet enough to have made sure that Roger wasn't in the house before he started smoking.
No, I don't think Jason has Willie under control at all either. Willie may have let Jason calm him down before he and Joe nearly got into a fight, but I think that may have been only because Willie got it into his head that he could manipulate his way into Collinwood the way Jason did. And I'm sure the idea that there would be some women more to his liking than Maggie turned out to be probably was one of the reasons as well as living the luxary.
Maybe Jason should have let Joe and Willie duke it out, and let Willie get some sense knocked into him, but I'm not at all certain that Joe would have stood a chance against Willie, at least with Hall's Willie. Hall's Willie I think could very easily put anyone in the hospital.
Jason sort of badmouths Paul here which surprises me, since he and Paul were supposedly best buddies. [spoiler] He does a total turnaround later on telling Carolyn nothing but good things about her father, but that was only to undermine Elizabeth's strategy of telling Carolyn the whole truth about what happened between Paul, Elizabeth, and Jason. [/spoiler]
for a month.
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I think my hesitation in believing Willie to be a real danger in a fight is because, so far, there's been nothing to back it up. We've seen him leering and mashing on a couple of women and threaten/challenge a couple of men to a fight, with fisticuffs always being avoided due to Jason (because it serves his own interests, granted). Perhaps the writers opted for a more subtle approach, but I still see it as bravado. I would have liked to have seen something. We know Willie is volatile; trying to win some money in an impromptu poker or craps game on the docks and busting up a guy when he believed he'd been cheated or something like that. Even if Jason and Willie just talked about the incident. That being said, there's definitely a creepy, predatory rapist vibe in Hall's Willie. There's no doubt in my mind that, given his temper, Willie would abuse a woman. I get disturbing images of him beating a prostitute in a dingy motel room because of a quibble over payment.
But I'm not sure Jason has Willie under control. He could do nothing to prevent Willie from joining him at Collinwood. Willie had the upper hand there.
Perhaps I didn't think through or express the thought well enough. Willie's a brawler and Jason's denied him the opportunity to do what he likes and does best, fight, by metaphorically neutering him and that may be why I see Willie as posturing as a tough guy. And maybe Willie is starting to think that's how people perceive him and he resents it. Jason, by preventing his friend from fighting and withholding info about the 'big job' has, in a couple of ways, emasculated Willie. Not being fully aware of the plan, what's going on at Collinwood and stuck in a lousy rooming house, Willie had to adopt another tack, taking a page from Jason's playbook and using it against him. Willie's turned the tables and gotten the upper hand by using his brain, something Jason hadn't bargained on. He underestimated him, probably believing he always had control over Willie, until this critical mistake.
I'm starting to wonder if any of that made sense.
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[The text of the opening voiceover has been unspoilered since it's from this same ep.]
Thanks--just being extra-careful!
Mystic, what you say makes plenty of sense. Hall is really creepy, isn't he.
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God, James Hall’s Willie is awful. Glad I don’t have any of his episodes on DVD. I would love to have seen what John Karlen would have done with this stupid dialogue. “First come, first serve generation”? Gad! And I had to look up speedball. “The combination of the narcotic heroin and stimulant cocaine mixed together and injected together in a single shot.”
This the last time we hear of the “art dealer” pushing Sam for more paintings?
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I would love to have seen what John Karlen would have done with this stupid dialogue.
While watching these episodes, I kept distracting myself, imagining JK's line readings. So much better.
Hall, here and there, has curious pronunciation; "that's my mot-TOE" and "don't get exci-TED." As if there's extra letters or emphasis on the wrong sy-LLA-ble.
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Janet, thanks (I think) for the definition of "speedball." But I'm still not sure why Willie calls Maggie one--unless he thinks she gave him the bum's rush?
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I wonder if there was a change in casting directors/companies because post-1795 they never recasted a new character right away again. Though there are a couple characters that should have been recasted.
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Janet, thanks (I think) for the definition of "speedball." But I'm still not sure why Willie calls Maggie one--unless he thinks she gave him the bum's rush?
It doesn't make much sense does it? I'm thinking that maybe James Hall put that in himself. Purely speculation, but that's the only thing I can think of.
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I think the writing and acting have been perfect for making Willie seem like a dangerous coiled spring, which is exactly what they were going for. That's exactly how Willie started. Later, of course, we get to hear both actors' reading of the same crossover scene, and Karlen seems too subdued.
[spoiler]It's almost as if someone knew they had the perfect actors for pre and post-crypt, but no actor perfect for both, and decided to use both actors. I doubt it, but still... The perfect crossover between Willies, then, would have been when Barnabas reaches up to strangle him... then reaching up another foot or so, and reshaping his face entirely, while he's in the neighborhood![/spoiler]
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There are differences between James Hall's and John Karlen's interpertations of Willie. No question about that. But [spoiler] Willie was still a number one creep when JK starts portraying him. I agree that Karlen portrayed Willie's sinister personality a bit more subtle like than Hall did, but I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing. In a way I think it's that more quietly menacing quality in Karlen's perfomance that makes his Willie superior. Don't forget it's Karlen's Willie who threatens Burke with a knife at the Blue Whale, threatens to kill him after licking his wounds. Willie is still a mean, vicious hothead. [/spoiler]
I don't want to take anything away from Hall, he DOES play the mean-tempered, violent little prick quite well.
But [spoiler] not sure if this should qualify as a spoiler, but I'll treat it as one anyway...while I believe John Karlen would have portrayed Willie the creepy, would-be potential rapist/assailant just as well as, maybe even better than Hall, I still don't think James would have been as convincing as the broken-spirited, beaten-down servant of Barnabas the vamp [/spoiler]
Of course we'll never know though.
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What strikes me about James Hall is that he has some trouble remembering his lines. Put him together with Jonathan Frid, and you could have a lot of awkward silences.
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Perhaps they should start calling it 19 years that Liz has been a high-priced shut-in. Maddening to be able to see what brands are on tap at the Dead Whale... almost. No microbrews then though. So Willie was in South America too. Does this mean that the line about sending a letter from Tierra del Fuego was true? If so, I picture Jason and Willie on a ship that was just about to "'round the Horn" (Cape Horn), and they decided at the last minute that there was no profit in getting killed, and jumped ship.
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What strikes me about James Hall is that he has some trouble remembering his lines. Put him together with Jonathan Frid, and you could have a lot of awkward silences.
OMG! He's awful! I don't even care what happened to this "actor" after Dan Curtis fired his ass.
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I knew that the Sci-Fi Channel - or rather a certain representative from DCP - occasionally cut things out of the eps so SFC could run more commercials, but I never realized anything was cut from this ep until I was just picking out screen caps for Robservations. The scene between Carolyn and Jason in the study ends very shortly after they stand up. None of the stuff from when they walk over to the door, or Carolyn leaves, or Jason is in the room by himself is to be seen. And not that it's really important stuff, but still.
The interesting thing is that during the show's first run on Sci-Fi they went out of their way to promote how DS was being shown unedited. But apparently that was strictly for that first run because my tapes are from the second run - and I definitely have eps that were cut or manipulated in other ways. And one has to wonder if DS ever does appear on TV again, will the unedited eps be shown or the "new and improved" eps?
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I noticed on the slate that there were four number 67's on the opening slate. Episode, year, tape and air dates. This Willie, terrible actor that he is, does seem dangerous. I keep thinking that he watched a James Dean movie and thought he could do that. How long have Jason and Willie been together? There's a feeling like they met in some Latin American prison cell and cooked up this scheme. Willie just doesn't seem the type to be in on a scam where you need to have patience and a low profile.
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The Robservations caps for this ep (including two from the missing portion of Sci-Fi's version of the study scene) have been posted. [ghost_smiley]