DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '03 I => Topic started by: ClaudeNorth on March 12, 2003, 08:52:15 PM
-
Greetings!
SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Watching these episodes makes me think that, IMHO, the writers blew it when they decided to dump yet another variation of the "Barnabas thinks he's found his Josette" storyline on KLS. With Kitty, KLS was finally given the chance to play something other than an ingenue. She's fun in the role, and the promise of Kitty-inspired mischief is quite tantalizing. I know that the Barnabas-Josette thing is considered the foundation of DS, but I find it disheartening to watch the conniving Kitty devolve into the gentle Josette. Seems like a waste of a good actress and a good character.
Regards,
John
-
I agree.
If they were going to 'waste' her, why didn't they do it when she was Rachel?
Now THERE was a waste!....who obviously left SUCH an impression on all who knew her that not ONE person at Collinwood notices Lady Hampshire's resemblance to the late, departed teacher. ::)
I'm sorry....this incestuous casting is starting to get on my nerves. [sure]
rainey
-
John, I completely agree with your assessment of lie deee AHRMP shire (I love how Pansy says it). She is the only KLS character I personally have any time for, apart from 1966 Maggie. She goes from being a deliciously calculating, devious little minx to being the standard snivelling KLS victim. It must have been an incredibly frustrating moment for the actress when she realized what was going on.
On the other hand, Lady Kitty does finally get to manhandle Angelique, satisfying generations of fans who had been itching to see a catfight between Josette and her conniving maid.
So you see, my dear, every silver lining has its cloud (quoting from my well thumbed copy of the Wit and Wisdom of Morticia Addams).
TTFN, Steve
-
I also wish they wouldn't have watered down Kitty. IMO, she's much more interesting than the other KLS characters. I'm looking forward to the next couple of Kitty episodes.
-
the promise of Kitty-inspired mischief is quite tantalizing.
and would have got MY bid on eBay!!!![vryevl]
-
I totally agree with you John. IMO Kitty is probably one of the best roles that KLS gets to play. She's definetely no victim here. She knows what she wants and goes after it. She's only been around for two days now and already she's told Petofi off twice!
We've already had to endure Barnabas trying to turn Maggie into Josette, then Rachel. It's a shame to see this being done again with Kitty's character as well. As Julia nicely said to Barnabas, "Josette is long dead." Let her rest in peace!
Gothick wrote:On the other hand, Lady Kitty does finally get to manhandle Angelique, satisfying generations of fans who had been itching to see a catfight between Josette and her conniving maid.
Thanks for reminding me of that Gothick! Im looking forward to seeing that one![a0a0]
Cassandra[/font]
-
The ultimate irony is that TLATKLS was to play Samanatha Collins in the 1840-41 storyline (the role going to Virginia Vestoff when we all know why KLS couldn't do it). Finally, it was her opportunity to play a totally cold-hearted, anger-filled you-know-what........and it didn't happen.
Gerard
-
Reading this thread made me think of how great it would have been if Alexandra M. could have returned to DS to play the role of LKH.
SPOILER
And it would have played perfectly into the storyline as no fan would have to be distracted by the absurdness that no one in Collinsport recognizes Kitty's resemblance to Rachel D. Also the ex-governess angle would have fit, and it would have been perfectly plausible that Barn would recognize her and try to follow her through time, as he was pretty hot for Viki. It may have even been a big ratings boost.
Oh well, [idontknow]
dom (major Viki fan)
-
What a great thread title!
She's a great character and KLS does such a good job playing her. I agree wholeheartedly that the turn they take with her is disheartening.
There were any number of avenues they could have explored. It's really too bad they opted for such a cop-out.
-
I was waiting for the Lady Kitty Hampshire role because I couldn't remember that much about it from the last viewing and I had heard KLS had a chance to play a little different character. Then when I heard KLS probably would have played Samantha Collins in 1840 I was really interested in this because I wanted to compare the roles and actresses. I do think KLS could have made a good Samantha and it would have been fun to see her in that role.
HobbiesDS
-
I agree with everyone's commentary here. . i'm not that big a KLS fan 'til Lady H. She's a great little conniver. .gotta admire her and she's a DIVINE dresser . ..nice shoulders! Too bad it did devolve to Josette. .why couldn't she have a had a multi-personality thing going--one minute good Josette, being slapped by frisky Lady H. If I get any gumption this year at the Fest maybe i'll ask her about the Lady H role. . . things just seem so weird on the show now. . i mean why did Magda have to go? She was such fun too. . i of course miss Julia but Magda. . whadda dame! Makes you wonder what was happening in the writers room, eg. the bar down the street. . .
-
things just seem so weird on the show now. . i mean why did Magda have to go? She was such fun too. . i of course miss Julia but Magda. . whadda dame! Makes you wonder what was happening in the writers room, eg. the bar down the street
YES!!! I wonder about that CONSTANTLY, Julia99!! What the hell were they doing?
I'm not among the scholars here who know everything about everyone involved in this show.....so I'm going to ask anyone who IS.....what have the writers ever said about writing this show? Did they talk? Years after the fact, did they gripe, bitch or complain about the way in which this stuff was written?
Did they laugh it off?....make excuses?....explain why it was so poorly plotted, with so little continuity? Was there too much involvement from the 'front office"?....not enough? Were there too many writers? Not enough? I'd be VERY interested to know what THEY thought about the work they were doing.
rainey
-
I'm not among the scholars here who know everything about everyone involved in this show.....so I'm going to ask anyone who IS.....what have the writers ever said about writing this show? Did they talk? Years after the fact, did they gripe, bitch or complain about the way in which this stuff was written?
Did they laugh it off?....make excuses?....explain why it was so poorly plotted, with so little continuity? Was there too much involvement from the 'front office"?....not enough? Were there too many writers? Not enough? I'd be VERY interested to know what THEY thought about the work they were doing.
rainey
Well, I'm certainly not a scholar on DS, but I know that Peter Miner, one of the show's latter directors told me that the actors on the show were a dream to deal with but the higher ups made life for everyone very difficult. The chaos was hard to work in and it's why several production people left the show. He thought the actors did very well under the circumstances. I remember reading an interview with Sam Hall where he said that even he didn't understand the show at one point and I think he was writing scripts at the time. That might have been the Levithan storyline he was talking about.
Nancy
-
The impression I have gotten from hearing DC talk on the dvds is that we can pretty much blame him for most of it. He had to make all the decisions whether he knew what he was deciding or not and would frequently change things at the last minute. Pretty much your typical nightmare boss. One thing that worked out in spite of him was his choice of Jonathon Frid. Even though he wasn't in town and didn't see any of the auditions, he chose Frid from a poor photograph that he couldn't even see very well. My question is, why didn't he let his casting director cast? I think we all lucked out on that one choice, but what a ridiculous way to run things.
-
i mean why did Magda have to go? She was such fun too. . i of course miss Julia but Magda. . whadda dame! Makes you wonder what was happening in the writers room, eg. the bar down the street. . .
As for Magda disappearing, I think that was because Grayson was suddenly unavailable. Steve can tell us why probably. I think it was either that she left briefly to do one of her film roles, or it was the time Sam's father became ill (and then passed away) in Ohio and they had to both leave the show briefly.
Bette
-
i mean why did Magda have to go? She was such fun too. . i of course miss Julia but Magda. . whadda dame! Makes you wonder what was happening in the writers room, eg. the bar down the street. . .
Exactly! IMO Magda played such an important character on the show and to simply have her "disappear" like this just doesn't make for good writing.
Of course they didn't have the kind of technology they have today in TV but it would have been great to see Julia and Magda meet, at least one time. I would love to have seen Julia's reaction to Magda. After all, Magda was such an important part of Barnabas' life in 1897. ;)
Cassandra[/font]
-
Of course they didn't have the kind of technology they have today in TV but it would have been great to see Julia and Magda meet, at least one time. I would love to have seen Julia's reaction to Magda. After all, Magda was such an important part of Barnabas' life in 1897. ;)
Cassandra[/font]
The technology was there and available for television production. Look at the Patty Duke Show. That predates DS, doesn't it?
-
Of course they didn't have the kind of technology they have today in TV but it would have been great to see Julia and Magda meet, at least one time. I would love to have seen Julia's reaction to Magda. After all, Magda was such an important part of Barnabas' life in 1897. ;)
Cassandra[/font]
The technology was there and available for television production. Look at the Patty Duke Show. That predates DS, doesn't it?
plus Bewitched didn't Elizabeth M do this with
Samantha and Serena? [roll3]Would have liked to see them together too! [ideab]
jennifer(who some days wishes she could split
to get everytning done! :o
-
From what I've heard, they would do the Barnabas Josette thing when the ratings needed a boost. I understand that the ratings were their best during the 1897 storyline so that doesn't make sense.
Call it my foolish, girlish romantic heart, but I really liked some of the love scenes coming up with Lady Kitty and Barnabas either in his room or hers. Frid is exceptional in those scenes IMHO. Barnabas's desperation to have her is so apparent.
-
Of course they didn't have the kind of technology they have today in TV but it would have been great to see Julia and Magda meet, at least one time. I would love to have seen Julia's reaction to Magda. After all, Magda was such an important part of Barnabas' life in 1897. ;)
They could have done it - they did it with Angelique and Alexis in Parallel Time, and also with Julia and Julia in Parallel Time. It didn't look all that great, but it was possible.
As for why the destruction of the Lady Kitty character, one can only guess that since KLS had been off the show for several months, Curtis felt her return should be used to recreate what he felt was the very basis of the show - the Barnabas/Josette thing. This was probably the intention with Rachel as well, until KLS asked to be written off for awhile.
No doubt that if KLS had remained on the show to the end and played Samantha in 1840, Curtis would have felt the need to revisit that relationship yet again.
-
They could have done it - they did it with Angelique and Alexis in Parallel Time, and also with Julia and Julia in Parallel Time. It didn't look all that great, but it was possible.
Ooh, that's right! I had totally forgotten about the Angelique/Alexis Julia/ Hoffman thing. Good observation. Thanks for pointing that out to me Dr Lang. :)
-
No doubt that if KLS had remained on the show to the end and played Samantha in 1840, Curtis would have felt the need to revisit that relationship yet again.
I'm glad KLS didn't stick around. (Nothing against TLATKLS) (Hi Ringo...[wavey]) It's just that I love Virginia Vestoff as Samantha - particularly in her scenes with Selby. I think they're just exquisite together. One of the few instances on DS where you get a true and realistic sense of a relationship.
Just MHO [grinb]
-
No doubt that if KLS had remained on the show to the end and played Samantha in 1840, Curtis would have felt the need to revisit that relationship yet again.
I'm glad KLS didn't stick around. (Nothing against TLATKLS) (Hi Ringo...[wavey]) It's just that I love Virginia Vestoff as Samantha - particularly in her scenes with Selby. I think they're just exquisite together. One of the few instances on DS where you get a true and realistic sense of a relationship.
Just MHO [grinb]
I LOVE Virginia Vestoff too.....Samantha and Quentin had a very passionate marriage but it was the wrong kind of passion. One of the scenes that stick out in my mind is when Quentin says something like love is a word often misused....and she replies "NOT in this house." Very volatile relationship.
I've said it before but I truly doubt the powers that be would have let KLS play Samantha the same way Virginia Vestoff did.....I think the character would eventually have become watered down....just like the Kitty Hampshire role (agree it was a shame; Kitty is my favorite KLS character). And there would be another Josette look-alike aspect too that could have been rehashed. It's sad because KLS definitely could have pulled it off....but I am glad Vestoff was cast in the role. :-)
-
No doubt that if KLS had remained on the show to the end and played Samantha in 1840, Curtis would have felt the need to revisit that relationship yet again.
Oops didn't see the last part of your post and I just posted the same thing re: a KLS Samantha could have turned into another Josette re-hash.
-
I'm glad KLS didn't stick around. (Nothing against TLATKLS) (Hi Ringo...[wavey]) It's just that I love Virginia Vestoff as Samantha - particularly in her scenes with Selby. I think they're just exquisite together. One of the few instances on DS where you get a true and realistic sense of a relationship.
Just MHO [grinb]
The beginning of 1840 is really amazing when you think about it. Vestoff, Storm, Selby, Pennock--they all give us these wonderfully detailed characterizations. Not the nicest people, admittedly, but I'm with Connie, realism is there and the acting is really quite wonderful.
While I certainly think KLS was capable of playing Samantha well, I'm with the rest of you guys--you just know within like ten minutes they would have had her going vacant eyed and hearing tinkling melodies :(
-
I personally thought Virginia Vestoff was brilliant in the role of Samantha, and I thought it helped that it was a new actress in the part, since she was a different kind of character for the series.
spoilers...
Every time I start watching 1840, I always feel some sadness and frustration, since it started out so well and then just ... jumped the shark! There are some great scenes in the second half of the storyline, but the whole premise of somebody being tried for witchcraft in 1840 Maine and being sentenced to decapitation is just so preposterous, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Anybody else besides me find the room gets considerably warmer every time Quentin and Desmond are on screen together?
Gothick
-
Anybody else besides me find the room gets considerably warmer every time Quentin and Desmond are on screen together? Gothick
I've been waiting 30-odd years to see John Karlen light the screen up with SOMEBODY on this show....and now you tell me it's QUENTIN??? [a345]
rainey
-
Well, he and Nancy do have wonderful chemistry together as Desmond and Leticia, and, to some degree, in the 1841 PT segment as Kendrick and Melanie.
It's just that in my twisted mind, that pales before the scenario I've concocted that takes place in between the acts with Desmond and Quentin!
Happy Ostara to you and yours, btw. I pray that a few daffodils will grow, somehow, somewhere, in a quiet green field where no bombs ever fall.
Steve
-
This has been a terribly hard Sabbat to prepare for.....to celebrate the time of birth and renewal, in the midst of war.
Blessings to you and yours too, Steve.
rainey [zoom]
-
Anybody else besides me find the room gets considerably warmer every time Quentin and Desmond are on screen together?
ABSOLUTELY!
;)
-
It's just that in my twisted mind, that pales before the scenario I've concocted that takes place in between the acts with Desmond and Quentin!
Oh......yeah. I remember one of those scenes.
(http://members.aol.com/beamoflite/images/q-des.jpg)
(Hi Steve) [gring]
-
Too funny, Connie. Thanks for the laugh. I needed it tonight. Took the fourteen year old shopping and than my mother was here when I got home and in rare form. Julia! I need a seditive!
Birdie