DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '03 I => Topic started by: Joeytrom on March 05, 2003, 03:50:04 PM
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Julia Hoffman was originally meant to be a short term character to eventually be killed by Barnabas.
If Sam Hall, Graysons husband, was never hired on DS as a writer, would Julia still have been so prominently featured as she was on the show?
What are your opinions?
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Barnabas needed Julia like Holmes needed Watson....there's not another character on the show who could have filled that function the way she does.
Was having Sam around good for Grayson? I'm sure. But the character of Julia more than carried her own weight.
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Barnabas needed Julia like Holmes needed Watson....there's not another character on the show who could have filled that function the way she does.
Completely agree Raineypark! Not to mention that Julia's unrequited love for Barn (which was just as effective IMO as the reluctant vampire idea) was one of the things that kept everyone coming back for more. ;)
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Interesting question .. i think there are those fans who think Grayson got what she did 'cuz Sam was the writer but i always remind them . .she got the job first, she had the Oscar nom, don't dis her. And its interesting to me that Julia has interesting moments but overall, she doesn't seem to get preferential treatment (e.g. always in distress (only a few times), diva moments, lovers, etc. like today's divas get-erica kane comes to mind). Julia was a reliable-friend character. I think you can see the character of Magda might've been a husband's present to his wife. . .but i digress. . . Julia stayed on the show because as others have said Barn needed a trusty sidekick and the unrequited nature of their feelings kept it alive. Remember. Sam Hall suggested killing off Julia and it was DC who said "NO!". . ..
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Hi, this question seems to come up a lot, mainly from people who do not have access to reliable info about the production history of DS.
Grayson got the gig to play Julia by a lucky accident, and turned the rather uninteresting role as written into something very special. DC met Sam at Grayson's parties and liked him. When a new writer was needed, DC knew that Sam did not then have a job commitment and offered him the role. This was mid to late October 1967, by which time Grayson and Julia had become fixtures on DS. Sam's first episode was the one where Barnabas is trying to drive Julia insane (like he didn't do that just by being Barn, lol) and Julia had this line about their being a thin line between love and hate that the script gave her to deliver to Barnabas. I thought it was a neat twist on their relationship.
If DC had given Sam the go-ahead to have Julia killed off, I don't think it would have meant Grayson's exit from the series. I'm quite sure she would have been brought back, in a role as different from Julia as possible. Grayson sometimes had issues with Julia's being, as she colorfully phrased it, "such a straight-ass."
Best wishes,
Gothick
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Loved the insight into the behind the scenes situation with Grayson and Sam Hall, Gothick! And her opinion about Julia is too funny!!
I don't have enough information to comment on Sam's contributions to the show or to the character of Julia, but my feeling about Julia herself is this: with or without Sam, Julia is (for me) the emotional core of Dark Shadows. Sure, Barnabas has the corner on the reluctant vampire deal, but Julia's unrequited love and dogged loyalty to him just rings so true. Grayson's subtle (yes, at times it really was) portrayal of these feelings seemed so real.
This may not have been the healthiest of relationships, but it really felt like love - more than any other 'couple' the show presents, IMO. I know this won't make the Barn/Vicki, Barn/Angelique or Barn/Josette contingents happy, it's just MHO.
Julia really showed the man what love is - it's a pity he didn't pay better attention. Barnabas could have learned alot from her. ;)
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Julia loved Barnabas the way only a woman married 20 or 30 years can love a man: no stars in her eyes, no false hopes, no excuses,......and no regrets. ;)
rainey
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have to agree Julia was Barnabas's best ally
and the actors worked so well together
i really missed them in the last storyline and
find it one of the most interesting plots in all
fanfic i've read of what happened to them later!
jennifer
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Julia was, in MHO, a necessary character on a number of
different levels. With the focus on Barnabas, who was almost always a man out of his time, they needed someone to serve as a bridge, a connection to modernity. While Willie also fulfilled that function, because of the character's class level and background (and because Barnabas is a snob ;)), Julia was essential. To a certain extent, the character worked as a foil (although, that aspect waxed and waned throughout the character's duration on the show).
Then there's the fact that there was a large part of the fan base invested in the Barnabas character. It's arguable that her character was someone with who they could identify.
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and the actors worked so well together
jennifer
which is ironic i think --'cuz it seems to me (reading or listening to their comments about one another) that they didn't seem to care too much for each other outside of work. . . just like Duchovny and Anderson on X-files and Willis and Shepard on Moonlighting. .
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Julia loved Barnabas the way only a woman married 20 or 30 years can love a man: no stars in her eyes, no false hopes, no excuses,......and no regrets. ;)
rainey
Not too sure about the no regrets part...Julia certainly loved Barnabas pretty much unconditionally (IMO), but I definately believe she had regrets (Dave Woodard, for one). At least I like to think so... ;)
MrsJ.
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which is ironic i think --'cuz it seems to me (reading or listening to their comments about one another) that they didn't seem to care too much for each other outside of work. . .
Interesting! Who said that?
I think they worked well together too. They didn't seem to "hang out" together outside of work, but I was in their presence together at the studio and they seemed very happy and relaxed around each other. It does seem that Grayson and Selby were fairly tight outside of work though.
-CLC ;D
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Not too sure about the no regrets part...Julia certainly loved Barnabas pretty much unconditionally (IMO), but I definately believe she had regrets (Dave Woodard, for one). At least I like to think so... ;)
MrsJ.
Oh, I love my husband pretty much unconditionally (26 years together, 20 married ::) )....but I sure as hell wouldn't help him murder a man!!! :D
I think what I was commenting on is the fact that their relationship is written with all the hallmarks of long-time lovers....almost from the beginning....even though they never are! I wonder how much of THAT comes from Grayson's relationship with Sam?
rainey
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DC met Sam at Grayson's parties and liked him. When a new writer was needed, DC knew that Sam did not then have a job commitment and offered him the role. This was mid to late October 1967, by which time Grayson and Julia had become fixtures on DS. Sam's first episode...
Best wishes,
Gothick
So, in other words, Grayson introduced Sam to DC? Interesting.
Wasn't it really then that SHE got HIM his job?
IMHO, I think T. David could've been the 'Watson' to Barn's 'Sherlock'.
Patti
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So, in other words, Grayson introduced Sam to DC? Interesting.
Wasn't it really then that SHE got HIM his job?
IMHO, I think T. David could've been the 'Watson' to Barn's 'Sherlock'.
Patti
Very interesting, Patti. Prof. Stokes as 'Watson'. I think Prof. Stokes would not have any qualms about calling Barnabas an idiot and giving it to him straight between the eyes.
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which is ironic i think --'cuz it seems to me (reading or listening to their comments about one another) that they didn't seem to care too much for each other outside of work. . .
Interesting! Who said that?
I think they worked well together too. They didn't seem to "hang out" together outside of work, but I was in their presence together at the studio and they seemed very happy and relaxed around each other. It does seem that Grayson and Selby were fairly tight outside of work though.
-CLC ;D
I settle on two oft reported remarks:
"He's D.U.M.B" AND
"I never really cared for her all that much. . "
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I settle on two oft reported remarks:
"He's D.U.M.B" AND
"I never really cared for her all that much. . "
ROTFLMAO!!!!
OMG! That is PRICELESS. I love both remarks. Can't you just hear them???
I love 'em both to death.
-CLC :-* :-*
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Is this really true, or just the usual crap-that-never-happened but somehow takes on a life of it's own? Grayson and Jonathan weren't friends?
I think I'd rather not have known that. Kind of takes away from the pleasant fantasy that they had as much fun making DS as we did watching it!
raineypark
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Is this really true, or just the usual crap-that-never-happened but somehow takes on a life of it's own? Grayson and Jonathan weren't friends?
I think I'd rather not have known that. Kind of takes away from the pleasant fantasy that they had as much fun making DS as we did watching it!
raineypark
I think they were "work" pals just like you and i have work pals but not outside of work friends. If they were both invited to parties with common friends, they saw each other and were friendly. She said as much in an interview taped in her home in 1971 or 72--origin of the D.U.M.B. remark. All Grayson fans have this tape. .she's probably spinning in her grave. . . His remark about her was said many years later after a few cocktails as i understand it. ahh fandom. . . As to ruining your perception, i think its more a testament to their skill and talents, as i've said before, we romanticize a lot of this. . but to them it was work, fun work but work all the same just like our job is work, hopefully fun but work. . .It apparent they had fun making the show and we have fun still watching it. . .
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It does seem that Grayson and Selby were fairly tight outside of work though.
-CLC ;D
Now Connie, this is a remark i'd like to hear more about, your impressions?. . i've gotten that impression too. Again two sources, her 1971-72 interview, she speaks fondly of him, pauses a little too if i remember which seemed a bit uh. . .interesting And i read an interview on Crisyede's site (gosh I spelled that wrong i know). Where he said some nice and thoughtful things about her as well. . .more than the other actors i've read his remarks about. . .and Karlen don't count, those two are incorrigible when their together. ::)
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Now Connie, this is a remark i'd like to hear more about, your impressions?. . i've gotten that impression too. Again two sources, her 1971-72 interview, she speaks fondly of him, pauses a little too if i remember which seemed a bit uh. . .interesting And i read an interview on Crisyede's site (gosh I spelled that wrong i know). Where he said some nice and thoughtful things about her as well. . .more than the other actors i've read his remarks about. . .
Wait - what does Grayson say about David in the '71-'72 interview? I've never seen it. Where can I get that interview? As you know, I just L O V E Grayson. ;D
Also, what other remarks of his have you read about other actors? I don't think I've ever read any really - just when he talks about Grayson in that Dagon (sp?) interview. (Might be what you read).
...and Karlen don't count, those two are incorrigible when their together.
LOL. Aren't they cute??
-CLC ;)
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Grayson and Jonathan weren't friends?
Hi Rainey... ;D
They certainly seemed friendly enough when I was around them. A friend and I were around them, Louis Edmonds, and a couple of crew members upstairs after a taping and everyone seemed chummy, at ease and very familiar. (And of course, Grayson was in the thick of things, running her mouth a mile a minute!) I'll never forget it.
;)
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Hi Rainey... ;D They certainly seemed friendly enough when I was around them. A friend and I were around them, Louis Edmonds, and a couple of crew members upstairs after a taping and everyone seemed chummy, at ease and very familiar. (And of course, Grayson was in the thick of things, running her mouth a mile a minute!) I'll never forget it. ;)
Just to be in the same building with the DS stars was an opportunity you will long remember. How I wish I had the same opportunity to be so close to them!
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Thank you for clearifing the remarks. Actually, even after reading them I didn't take it too seriously. We all have worked with people who don't become are "good" friends. Lucky if we make a real friend in the work enviorment. I have friends who I have thought of at times as acting D.U.M.B. never mind people I work with. I still care for them. ;D No doubt different people have different ideas and different life styles that becoming buddies just does't blend.
I have worked with people who have become wonderful friends and share great memories. We still try to get together. The group I work with now are nice, but young, we just don't have anything besides work in common. They don't have a clue on what Dark Shadows is and I hate reality TV.
Birdie--I am better today, the only one sad is the dog who has enjoyed my lying around the house. You know the sci-fi dragon thing that is my dog this week. In my face. I miss spell check! I can't find my dictionary. Sorry for any spelling errors. I can't spell for beans.
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Thank you for clearifing the remarks. Actually, even after reading them I didn't take it too seriously. We all have worked with people who don't become are "good" friends. Lucky if we make a real friend in the work enviorment. I have friends who I have thought of at times as acting D.U.M.B. never mind people I work with. I still care for them. ;D No doubt different people have different ideas and different life styles that becoming buddies just does't blend.
I agree. There are people in my work environment I would actually enjoy spending more time with outside the office, but finding extra time outside of work (besides the parties and occasional group get-togethers) is difficult. As it is, because I work long hours I don't spend enough time with people who are closer to me. I don't imagine it was any different for the actors on DS. Marie Wallace, for one, has talked about the fact she really did not know many of her co-stars on the series until she started attending the festivals. She was married when on DS, and afterwork she spent time with her husband and their established social circle. Not spending time with DS cast members wasn't because she didn't like any of them. There wasn't the time.
Nancy
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Not spending time with DS cast members wasn't because she didn't like any of them. There wasn't the time.
I find myself wonder quite a lot about how the cast of DS could have had much time to do much of anything outside the studio. I would imagine most Soap actors have to learn lines every day. But the pace of DS was so fast compared to the other daytime shows - then and now - it must have been insane at times! [nut]
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Didn't I read a comment once by John Karlen in which he said he learned his lines in the subway on his way to work? [read]
Nothing like leaving it to the last minute!!
rainey
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Hi, My read on the Grayson/Jonathan relationship is pretty similar to Julia's. I do think that Grayson was a strong, vivid personality and I'm sure that her sharp-edged wit had some cast and crew members bristling from time to time. What tends to come through when you speak to people about her now is her warmth, her earthy zest for living, and her flamboyant personality, but I'm sure there were hours if not days when she could be hard to take, especially if one were in her line of fire.
I do think that Jonathan and Grayson were fond of one another to a certain extent. In another fan interview from the early 80s she tells some of the same stories about how he had such problems with his lines, but then croons something like "He's a dear man, and I love him." I think Nancy may be correct that Jonathan's refusal to do Night of Dark Shadows may have left some hurt feelings from Grayson and Sam. (This would explain why Sam went out of his way in one interview to complain that critics panned "Murder in the Cathedral," the T. S. Eliot play which I believe Jonathan did in NYC while everyone else was off filming the second movie).
As for Jonathan, I have a video from a Festival (I think it was one of the late Dave Brown's tapes) where Jon says a propos of Grayson, "She saved my life every day in the studio." I don't think they were faking in those photos you've seen where they're hugging one another and smiling; I think there was a lot of good feeling there.
Just my take on it.
Steve
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I know this is an old topic but I just got around to reading it.
My take on work relationships at DS is like what was said in this thread before. Connie mentioned that she believed David Selby and Grayson were friends outside of work. This makes sense because they were both married with children while Jonathan was and is a bachelor with no children. It seems that Grayson and Jonathan had less in common than Grayson and David. I have many friends at work but I socialize with those I have the most in common with. Probably most of you can relate to that.
I believe Jonathan's best friend on the show was Louis, another bachelor. In the Louis Edmonds autobiography the author, Craig Hamrick mentions that Louis didn't care much for Grayson because at a dinner party she slyly asked him what he was earning on the show which according to the author of the book, offended Louis because he was a very private person when it came to money. Whether she really asked him that, doesn't really matter. If Louis distanced himself socially from Grayson it would make sense that Jonathan, to some extent would do so as well since he and Louis were friends on and off the set.
Murph
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(This would explain why Sam went out of his way in one interview to complain that critics panned "Murder in the Cathedral," the T. S. Eliot play which I believe Jonathan did in NYC while everyone else was off filming the second movie).
Of course, plenty of critics also panned the second movie. It did not exactly shatter box office records or make anywhere near the money HODS did, IIRC. A fact Mr. Hall seems to have conveniently forgotten in the interview. ;)
Nancy