DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '12 I => Topic started by: Lydia on March 24, 2012, 06:04:10 PM
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Robservations #175
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Pete Guthrie and Vicky discuss the fact that fire is so much a part of this business. They list the instances of fire - and completely ignore the fact that there is no known connection between fire and what happened to Liz. And yet Guthrie's excuse for hanging around is that he's trying to find out what caused Liz's ailment. We viewers know that Laura caused Liz's problem, but given their line of reasoning, I don't see why Guthrie and Vicky should believe it.
Laura was quite shaken by the news of the disappearance of the corpse in Phoenix. I had been thinking that it was sort of like a skin that had been shed, or feathers moulted, but clearly it means more than that. But what? The possibilities I come up with are that it's sort of like a clock ticking - when the body disappears she starts turning into a jack-o-lantern, or something - or that some god was displaying his displeasure that she hadn't come through with David yet, or else that the burned body was a power source from which she absorbed energy so that now she could never again gas up.
But what made Guthrie so sure beforehand that the news of the body's disappearance would shock Laura? If I hadn't been operating on the sloughed-skin-moulted-feathers theory, I would have figured that the connection between Laura and the burnt body was such that she already knew it was gone. Oh, well, I guess that's why Petey's the parapsychologist and not I.
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Maybe Laura didn't use fire to make Elizabeth ill because it would have drawn too much attention to her (L.).
I think the gods were displeased that Laura didn't make a full transition in Phoenix--maybe because David wasn't there, and she couldn't do it without him--?
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But are there indeed gods involved in this? Of course the ancient Egyptians believed in gods, but I think we've gotten far enough off the beaten phoenix path so that we shouldn't automatically assume that there are any gods involved with Laura. (Yes. I know. I myself suggested the god possibility in my previous post. Never mind. Pay no attention to that post behind the curtain.) Laura's just this one supernatural being. I wonder: has she ever encountered any other supernatural beings? How strange it would be, to be completely, essentially different from anybody else you've ever met.
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Interesting thought, Lydia. Maybe Laura wants to take David with her only because otherwise she would be utterly alone. That would mean that her first attempt (in Phoenix) failed because she was wishing he were there, and she couldn't concentrate all her energies on the task at hand.
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Interesting thought yourself, DarkLady. When I said that about Laura being different, I wasn't thinking in terms of David. I was just sort of rambling, and thinking about how it's a thought that I never have with any of the other supernatural oddballs on Dark Shadows - at least, I don't remember thinking that way. But what if Laura is the only phoenix in existence, and not really human, and the only other supernatural beings are the ghosts, who still think of themselves as human? Yup, it could get lonely.
I don't think the Phoenix business was a misfire, and I have a specific reason for being quite sure of it:[spoiler]the date of the old newspaper article about David Radcliffe that we'll seeing sometime or other.[/spoiler]
But I like the way you connected my thought to Laura's relationship with David. Carolyn says Laura doesn't really love David (at least I think it was she who said that), and maybe that's the conclusion the writers want us to draw - but I have trouble with it. Maybe there's something there that Carolyn is incapable of comprehending, because Carolyn is completely human.
What a headache I have! I'm not sure I'm making any sense.
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Lydia, I appreciate all you said, but find myself with absolutely nothing to contribute to any of it, for which I hang my head in shame.
In the ending to this episode, we have the biggest difference ever between the cliffhanger and the teaser redo the next day. Many redos have differences in how a scene was staged, how lines were acted... but here the event happens differently. In fact, the two versions of this scene are not reconcilable, and may indicate a change in the producers' minds about what was going to happen to the Guthrie character. Or it was just sloppiness.
You'll all probably think I'm making too much out of this. In the ending to this episode though, Guthrie is being affected by Laura in the Drawing Room, after just having been threatened by her. He stumbles around, alone, calls for Vicki... but no Vicki. After a struggle to remain well and conscious, he finally collapses on the floor, alone and without help, to the left of the fireplace. The end. He appears to have successfully been given the Liz treatment, since no one was there to help. Compare this to the redo...
One possibility is that the "redo" is actually a new scene, taking place later. I'll save all that for #176, though.
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The Robservations caps for this ep have finally been posted. [snow_smiley]
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.In the ending to this episode, we have the biggest difference ever between the cliffhanger and the teaser redo the next day. Many redos have differences in how a scene was staged, how lines were acted... but here the event happens differently. In fact, the two versions of this scene are not reconcilable, and may indicate a change in the producers' minds about what was going to happen to the Guthrie character. Or it was just sloppiness.
You'll all probably think I'm making too much out of this.
I don’t think you’re making too much out of it. We’re here to discuss many aspects of the episodes. I don’t know the reason why they changed the ending and they seem to do this more frequently in future episodes. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.
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Or maybe they were just toying with us and wanted to end this episode with as much of a cliffhanger as possible so we would think, Poor Dr. Guthrie! All alone! And collapsed by the fireplace! Is he dead? In a coma? What? And where's Vicki?
I'll also save comments on 176 for that episode.
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This is sort of like the end of a later episode when Jason is walking through the woods, hears dogs howling and gets a real frightened look on his face as something approaches.
This is never referred to ever again and when Jason next appears it is like it never happened.
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I was wondering why Laura's body disappeared in Phoenix. It would have been more convenient for her if it had gone when she transformed. She was surprised to learn it was gone. I wondered about her comment that nothing that happened in Phoenix had to do with her. Maybe this incarnation of Laura never was in the southwest and only came into being when the real Laura Collins died.
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Laura mentioned having had a cleaning lady, Margaret, for a while in Phoenix, and if she had no memory of ever having been in Phoenix, I don't think she would have done that. But then, it's hard to be sure of what Laura would or would not do.
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Laura mentioned having had a cleaning lady, Margaret, for a while in Phoenix, and if she had no memory of ever having been in Phoenix, I don't think she would have done that. But then, it's hard to be sure of what Laura would or would not do.
I think the idea of our onscreen Laura being a duplicate who never lived in Phoenix is viable. If she had no memories from the previous version of Laura, it wouldn't be of much use as a life extension technique, and she wouldn't have been able to interact with the Collinses at all. She wouldn't remember them. She remembers Phoenix, Arizona, but feels little connection with it herself. The mind, including memories, could have been transferred, which is what I've always pictured as having happened, but that former life seems distant now. Or else she's just lying about Phoenix having nothing to do with her, and this has to be it. I'm practically certain she just made up "Margaret" on the spot, also.
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Magnus, I too am sure that Laura made up Margaret. I was surprised, however, that she took the trouble to do so, and if she had no memories of living in Phoenix, then I'm surprised that she took the risk.
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I think that this Laura has the original Laura's memories and sometimes her feelings from the past seem to seep back maybe when she hasn't spent enough time by the fire. I have a feeling in true dark shadows fashion these questions may go unanswered.