DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '26 I => Current Talk '03 I => Topic started by: Joeytrom on January 15, 2003, 05:09:53 PM
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In the 80's I bought a collection of synopsis' of the first year of DS. I just realized something that I have never seen mentioned that was on them. It is something minor really, but still worth mentioning anyway.
Apparently at the time the synopsis of the week and a half prior to the episode where Willie releases Barnabas from his coffin, the writers did not yet have a name for their future vampire. Barnabas is referred to as "young Collins" or "the young man" when the summary refers to the part where Willie is looking at the portrait.
The lines read something like like: "Willie is staring at the portrait of young Collins and notices the eyes glowing at him." Another line states "Willie once again looks at the portrait of the young man and in addition to the glowing eyes, he hears a heartbeat from the portrait."
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How interesting, Joeytrom. I'm guessing that by young, the writers meant less than 250. ;)
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If I'm remembering correctly, Barns portrait had been seen for more than 1 1/2 weeks...he doesn't look 'young'.
Patti
(who also doesn't look young ::) )
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You know, having never seen the pre-B. episodes, I was wondering...
How did they introduce his portrait? Did someone find it or did it just show up on the wall one day and everyone acted like it had been there all along?
And what, if anything, did it replace?
Just curious. I defer to your impressive collective knowledge.
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At the end of an episode, David is telling Wille (James Hall) about the portrait over the fireplace being his great great grandfather (Jeremiah Collins) and the one of his wife (Josette Collins) is above the fireplace at the Old House. He then walks over toward the side of the door and says "....this is Barnabas Collins." Willie admires the jewelry in the portrait. Carolyn has David go upstairs and Willie, now alone thinks to himself that he wishes he had jewels like the ones Barnabas has. he then leaves the house to get a drink. The camera moves back to Barnabas' portrait and you hear a heartbeat coming from it getting louder and louder and the eyes open and start to glow.
Prior to this, a mirror was in the place of the portrait. It is suggested that the portrait of Barnabas was always there and not referred to.
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Actually, the very first time the portrait is seen is during the closing credits of one of the episodes, in a shot of the foyer.
A rather smart and subtle way of introducing it, I must say.
Regards,
John
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Joeytrom Wrote:
At the end of an episode, David is telling Wille (James Hall) about the portrait over the fireplace being his great great grandfather (Jeremiah Collins) and the one of his wife (Josette Collins) is above the fireplace at the Old House.
That's right! I had forgotten all about that scene with David. So, if Jeremiah was his great great grandfather than that means that Jeremiah had children before he married Josette. (notice that he doesn't say "Josette is my Grandmother) This could very well mean that Jeremiah & Laura did have children when they were married in the 1700's. I wonder then if this child could have been the David that died in a fire in his mother's arms that was disclosed during the seance between Vicky & Dr.Guthrie? There was never any mention of Jeremiah ever having any children while being married to Laura but perhaps the family choose to deal with it in their own "Collins" way by not ever talking about.
Sorry to sway alittle OT here but I had always wondered about this question. And since we were never given any clue's we more or less have to come up with our own conclusion. At least now that whole David Radcliff/Laura thing makes more sense to me. :-)
Cassandra[/font]
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The David that dies in his mothers arms was David Radcliffe. I dont think Jeremiah and Laura had children, otherwise, Barnabas would have mentioned it.
When David refers to Jeremiah as his great great grandfather, it is at a time when Jeremiah and Josette were still considered direct ancestors of the Collins family. I believe this episode is also the last one that Jeremiah is referred to as a direct ancestor.
The episode with the closing credits featuring Barnabas' portrait was actually filmed out of sequence. This episode was filmed AFTER the episode David shows Willie Barnabas' portrait and was actually the last one James Hall filmed.
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Thanks Joeytrom!
I knew someone on this board would know. You guys are so crack at this.
I'm still a relative newbie who came in during the Dream Curse last summer and am now watching the DVDs, so it gets a little confusing. There's all this stuff in the middle there (and the very, very beginning obviously) that I'm lacking. Still don't think I entirely get all that happens in 1795. Or is it 1796? :-)
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I remember DC in one of the special dvds mentioned that they had the portrait partly done before they hired Jonathon Frid, then they just painted his face in. DC also said that he was out of town and they sent him pictures of the actors who auditioned. He chose one in spite of it not being big enough to see it very well. (Which doesn't make a lot sense, now that I think of it, but I think that is what he said.)
This method of hiring in spite of not bothering to see the auditions, may explain a lot of other not so great choices....
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I know that Bert Convy was in the running for the role of Barnabas. I wonder if DC chose him over Jonathan Frid.
Sam Hall once said in an interview that DC was mistaken in that he didn't choose Jonathan Frid and that he was right in charge of JF's hiring.
I am not sure which version is right.
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I know that Bert Convy was in the running for the role of Barnabas. I wonder if DC chose him over Jonathan Frid.
Sam Hall once said in an interview that DC was mistaken in that he didn't choose Jonathan Frid and that he was right in charge of JF's hiring.
I am not sure which version is right.
(http://www.mindspring.com/~winston9/The%20Pad/Bert%20Collins.gif)
doesn't work for me.......
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Bert Convy!!!! Doesn't work for me either. Would Barnabas Collins have worn a perm instead of spiked bangs? Ewww.
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So, if Jeremiah was his great great grandfather than that means that Jeremiah had children before he married Josette.
In the original story line bible by Art Wallace, Josette killed herself shortly after giving birth to a son. So Jeremiah and Josette had one child. Prior to the arrival of Barnabas, it was said that Jeremiah was Elizabeth's great grandfather, and built Collinwood in 1830.
The history was further embellished when they introduced "The Old House." At this point they established that Josette died in either 1820 or 1821. Apparently she never lived at "Collinwood," unless that's what the Old House was called prior to the building of the new house.
Once Barnabas arrived, they added a brother for Jeremiah named Joshua, who died in 1830, and his wife Naomi, who died in either 1821 or 1822. Barnabas's little sister died in 1796. It was originally the intention that Barnabas and Sarah were around the same age. They both succumbed to an illness in 1796 from which he recovered and she did not.
This all changed when they sent Victoria Winters back to 1795. At that point they moved the dates of events having taken place between 1820 and 1830 to the space of a few months between 1795 and 1796. To further complicate matters, Anthony George left the show and they decided to kill off the character of Jeremiah, which precluded him having any children.
Why they decided to do this is unknown. It may have simply been the desire to see Sarah as a "live" person, but since they changed the dates of deaths for Jeremiah, Naomi and Josette in the process, they could just as easily have moved the date of Sarah's death up to 1821. Or it may be that they felt a witchcraft trial in the 1820's was too much of a stretch. Knowing Curtis, another explanation might be that when they checked into it, they found they had ready and easy access to period costumes from the late 1700's but not to costumes from the 1820's.
When Victoria returned to the present, there was never any mention of Jeremiah being Elizabeth's great grandfather. Instead, Daniel became her great, great grandfather.
At least now that whole David Radcliff/Laura thing makes more sense to me. :-)
Sorry to burst your bubble on that one. In the original 1966 Phoenix story line there was a Laura Stockbridge who died by fire in 1766. And there was a Laura Radcliff who died by fire in 1866. Neither women were married to Collins men. Laura Radcliff had a son named David Radcliff who died with her in 1866. There was no mention of Laura Stockbridge having a son.
Bringing Laura into 1897 simply re-wrote the previous history, and badly. Suddendly Barnabas reverts to referring to Jeremiah as a much older uncle, when in 1795 they were the same age. Jeremiah was married to Laura Stockbridge when Barnabas was "a boy." (Athough it's possible Barnabas had another uncle named Jeremiah - perhaps a brother of Joshua's father, after whom the second Jeremiah was named.)
It's also possible there is/was more than one Phoenix, thus the explanation of how Laura could have died in 1866 but show up alive and well in 1897.
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OMG Ringo that portrait is killing me!!!
I wonder if their original intention was that Barnabas was young and handsome. Curtis has stated that he chose Frid from a list of candidates simply because he was wearing a cape in his photo. At the time he didn't envision Barnabas being a romantic lead, but rather, the most frightening villain he could think of. Frid was probably the "scariest" looking of the actors he chose from in his own estimation.
(Although, in my mind, the thought of Bert Convy is much more frightening ;-) )
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Ringo, the portrait is PRICELESS! Can you imagine how much different the whole show would've been with Bert Convy as Barnabas? Who would they have gotten to play Dr. Julia Hoffman? Brett Sommers or JoAnn Worley? [lghy] [lghy] [lghy]
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It's been the most consistent version of the story that the intention of Dan Curtis was to bring in a super bad guy spook, jack up the ratings, and then kill off the character. Obviously Curtis hoped for a good reaction to the character but the reaction he got was more than he bargained for.
Associate Producer Bob Costello has said he and the writers brought in Frid to talk with him about the role and he had the look they wanted. I have no doubt that the fact that Frid had gone to Yale with one of the writers, Ron Sproat, played a role in the hiring. Frid did a great many plays at Yale (though there as a directing student) and Sproat saw him. Yep, the old "who you know" could pay off even then.
Nancy
OMG Ringo that portrait is killing me!!!
I wonder if their original intention was that Barnabas was young and handsome. Curtis has stated that he chose Frid from a list of candidates simply because he was wearing a cape in his photo. At the time he didn't envision Barnabas being a romantic lead, but rather, the most frightening villain he could think of. Frid was probably the "scariest" looking of the actors he chose from in his own estimation.
(Although, in my mind, the thought of Bert Convy is much more frightening ;-) )
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Ringo, the portrait is PRICELESS! Can you imagine how much different the whole show would've been with Bert Convy as Barnabas? Who would they have gotten to play Dr. Julia Hoffman? Brett Sommers or JoAnn Worley? [lghy] [lghy] [lghy]
Charles Nelson Reilly, naturally :-X
Ringo....thanks for the laugh.
Patti
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Ringo,
That is just too funny. My husband is standing over my shoulder LHAO.
Birdie
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If JoAnn Worley was Dr. Hoffman....would the Collinses be....FARKEL'S?????
Roger as Frank Farkel
Liz as Fran Farkel
Mrs. J. as Freida Farkel
Carolyn as Fannie Farkel
Tom and Chris as Simon and Gar Farkel
Carl as Ghost Flicker Farkel (Hiiiiiiieeee!)
Quentin as Fab Farkel
and as the loyal and trusted neighbor.....
T. Elliot Stokes as Ferd Berfel!!!!!
and all those Farkel kids would have slick comb overs and would be wearing monacles!
[shadow=purple,left,300]
Always, Minja ;)
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JoAnn Worley as Dr. Hoffman would probably say...My husband Boris wanted to play Dark Shadows with me
last night. He said he's be Barnabas and then he took a bite out of me! Bwahahaha!
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Ringo,
That portrait of "Barnabas Convy" is truly frightening![thumb]
I'd bet if Convy played Barnabas, he and Roger Davis would be competing in the "Beware The Hair" category! [silly]
[shadow=purple,left,300]
Always, Minja [silly]
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The lines read something like like: "Willie is staring at the portrait of young Collins and notices the eyes glowing at him." Another line states "Willie once again looks at the portrait of the young man and in addition to the glowing eyes, he hears a heartbeat from the portrait."
not to be too catty but that portrait ain't of a young man. . he's middle aged to say the least. . .
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Bert Convy!!!! Doesn't work for me either. Would Barnabas Collins have worn a perm instead of spiked bangs? Ewww.
I used to think so, too, until I saw these pics of Convy from the mid-sixties (his B'way salad days in "Fiddler on the Roof" and "Cabaret". . .)
http://www.bertconvy.net/bert.html
That head shot looks sufficiently misterioso and sinister enough for a much younger Barnabas than that fellow (what's his name again? <G>) whom Curtis ultimately chose.
I think the biggest drawback would have been that VOICE !!!!
L.