DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
Members' Mausoleum => Calendar Events / Announcements Archive => Calendar Events / Announcements '24 I => Calendar Events / Announcements '02 II => Topic started by: victoriawinters on November 23, 2002, 11:00:49 AM
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my name is victoriawinters... new dates for the 2003 fest have been announced.... the new dates are august 29, 30 and 31 (labor day week-end). be sure to change your hotel reservations if you haven't already. special full day bus trip added to visit the locations collinwood and blue whale in newport, rhode island. fest is still in brooklyn, new york, the brooklyn marriott.
i don't know about all of you but i am actually glad because of the extra day trip to the sites. plus, this will work better for my schedule. (*engages denial mechanisms-full throttle*)
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I wonder why the dates have been changed -- and to a holiday weekend. Oy...I can just see the traffic now - people heading in droves out to the Island for the "last weekend of summer".
I can only think of two possibilities. Either a problem with the hotel arose and this was the only alternative availability, OR one of the "major" Fest draws (not naming names, LOL) has announced to Jim Pierson that they've developed a conflict re: the previous date.
Anybody know?
-CLC
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Driving towards the city will be bad enough....but did they give no consideration to those who will have to fly? How much more expensive will those plane tickets be for the holiday weekend? How much harder will it be to GET flights that weekend?
And how many people will be unable to come because they have kids who have already started school, are about to start school, or college aged kids who have to be TAKEN to school over that weekend?
I'm assuming that this was the absolute ONLY weekend they could agree on, with the hotel and all the performers, because it's an appallingly poor choice.
raineypark
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And how many people will be unable to come because they have kids who have already started school, are about to start school, or college aged kids who have to be TAKEN to school over that weekend?
I'm assuming that this was the absolute ONLY weekend they could agree on, with the hotel and all the performers, because it's an appallingly poor choice.
Have to agree wholeheartedly with Raineypark on this one. The university where I am a grad student doesn't get Labor Day off in the first place (which is just wrong), so that is the first day of classes for the semester.
Assuming that I get the teaching contract extension that I would need to afford to attend the Fest in the first place, I will need to be at the university at that time in order to teach.
And the air travel situation is going to be utterly ridiculous, so the Festival is pretty much out of the realm of possibility for me now.
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And how many people will be unable to come because they have kids who have already started school, are about to start school, or college aged kids who have to be TAKEN to school over that weekend?
Exactly. I was so unbelievably ticked off when I read the announcement and I'm not feeling all that much better about it this morning. I can't imagine how I'd be able to make it with my kids starting new schools the weeks before and after. I won't even get into how I feel about flying to the other coast on a holiday weekend cuz that would undoubtedly trigger one of the forum's censored words.
A day trip by bus from Brooklyn to Newport and back? Not for the faint of heart, or kidneys, methinks.
BTW, victoriawinters, if a post has to do with DS, it's not off-topic.
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Is it so unreasonable for Jim Pierson to poll the fan base on where & when they would like the DS Fests? I know you can't please all of the fans all of the time but at least get an idea of the graphics.
Who in their right mind would schedule a fest on a holiday weekend with school/college starting up and family get-togethers planned? Not to mention airfare price increases and busy holiday air traffic.
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... I won't even get into how I feel about flying to the other coast on a holiday weekend cuz that would undoubtedly trigger one of the forum's censored words.
LOL! Probably the only thing to laugh about concerning this whole issue...couldn't have picked a worse weekend. And, while a bus trip from NYC to RI is a nice idea, but the practicality of it, especially on that weekend is virtually nil. I know I wouldn't want to be sitting on I-95 for hours and hours...
MrsJ.
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This gets worse and worse the more we talk about it.
I have one of those milestone birthdays that weekend...you know, the ones where your family members INSIST on throwing a surprise party for you, even though you have repeatedly threatened to kill anyone stupid enough to try?
How do I tell them I'm going away that weekend, without ruining all their fun? ::)
Assuming, of course, the niece who's getting married SOME time in August hasn't already chosen that weekend!!
raineypark
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Well, this is a lousy piece of news. Maybe we should just hold our own festival, since there seem to be so many problems with this one.
ProfStokes
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Okay, somebody tell us where to address the irate comments.....it's still 9 months away and if they get enough furious responses they just might have to re-think this idiotic plan.
rainey
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Okay, somebody tell us where to address the irate comments.....it's still 9 months away and if they get enough furious responses they just might have to re-think this idiotic plan.
The Fest web site gives an email address for comments:
pansyfaye@darkshadowsfestival.com
Lest anyone think that I am divulging an email address that has not been advertised as being open for comments, the URL of the page that mentions that email address is:
http://www.darkshadowsfestival.com/page04.asp#trivia
If you prefer snail mail, the Festival's address is:
Dark Shadows Festival
P.O. Box 92
Maplewood, NJ 07040-0092
If you expect a response via snail mail, it's probably a good idea to enclose a SASE.
And some worthless words of advice from someone who has taught Business Writing in college for 3 semesters . . .
Complaint letters that do nothing beyond complaining generally accomplish very little.
Complaint letters that are polite and request a specific course of action in order to address the problem tend to accomplish more, particularly if they also grant that the person or people to whom you're writing do honestly believe they have legitimate reasons (even if you consider them ludicrous) for acting as they have.
End of English teacher speech.
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Well, this is a lousy piece of news. Maybe we should just hold our own festival, since there seem to be so many problems with this one.ProfStokes
You know, not a bad idea, Prof. Stokes!
Even tho the hub cities of NY and LA are easier for the actors involved, why couldn't you have a Halloween/DS Fest in Tarrytown? Or a Summer-by-the-Sea Fest in Newport?
I think Jim Pierson needs to get creative and come up with new ideas that logistically work. I can see the traffic now with several bus loads pulling into an already overcrowded Newport the last holiday of the summer season.
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I think Jim Pierson needs to get creative and come up with new ideas that logistically work.
Someone I know suggested a cruise. That would take care of the location and the field trip, lol.
ProfStokes
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Someone I know suggested a cruise. That would take care of the location and the field trip, lol.ProfStokes
One of the soap operas on ABC is doing just that next year. You have to go thru a selected travel agent but family & friends are invited. And, now that you brought that up, wasn't there a DS cruise several years ago?Did anyone go and if so, how was it?
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.....particularly if they also grant that the person or people to whom you're writing do honestly believe they have legitimate reasons (even if you consider them ludicrous) for acting as they have.
I have no doubt whatever that they believe they have legitimate reasons for doing this. But I also believe that after so many years of successful Festivals, it's practically inevitable that they would begin to take their fans for granted. Where else are the fans going to see the performers? WE don't have an alternative.
Personally, I've already met the only performer that interests me. I was much more interested in meeting some of YOU....and while it was looking doubtful even before this date change, I hadn't entirely given up hope.
raineypark
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I also believe that after so many years of successful Festivals, it's practically inevitable that they would begin to take their fans for granted.
Begin to???
Whoops, was that my out loud voice? [smrty]
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Begin to???Whoops, was that my out loud voice? [smrty]
I was trying to be polite, sweetie!
MsCriseyde doesn't know me and my cranky sense of humor very well and I didn't want her to think I was being rude!
Honestly, I can't fathom how this works out well for ANYONE but the hotel.
rainey
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Begin to???
Whoops, was that my out loud voice? [smrty]
Are you saying Midnight that no matter how much the fans complain and write letters about changes to the DS Fest, it won't matter a hill of beans? Is it the "put up or shut up" mind frame at work?
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I wonder why the dates have been changed -- and to a holiday weekend.
Actually, there is precedent for holding the Fest that weekend. The 1987 NY Fest was held August 28, 29 & 30 and the 1989 NY Fest (the first one I attended) was held September 2 & 3 (with a party at the site of the former DS studio on the September 1 and a bus trip to Newport on Labor Day itself, September 4). However I can understand why many people might have problems with Labor Day Weekend. ;) And those Fests were held at the World Trade Center Marriott (sigh), not in Brooklyn.
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A day trip by bus from Brooklyn to Newport and back? Not for the faint of heart, or kidneys, methinks.
Uh, no. It's a four to five hour trip (depending on traffic) in both directions.
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The Newport Waterfront Irish Festival is also annually held on that weekend. I suspect that probably makes the waterfront fairly crowded and the Black Pearl a little difficult to manage.
And that Monday is the official move in date for new students and freshmen at Salve Regina. If you've never been near a college on move in day, pack the Excedrin and watch carefully for people driving the wrong way down one way streets and blocking the flow of traffic while their beloved children haul out all the finest audio and video equipment for their rooms. ;-)
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Are you saying Midnight that no matter how much the fans complain and write letters about changes to the DS Fest, it won't matter a hill of beans?
Most likely a conflict arose with the original dates and Labor Day Weekend was the best compromise they could work out. I'd say it's probably unlikely the date could or would be changed again. Of course that doesn't stop anyone from expressing their opinion that they'd prefer not to have a Fest held that weekend again. [wink2] But as someone else has said, do it politely. Anyone who works themselves up into a fit of anger won't really accomplish much or do anyone any good, especially themselves. ;)
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Are you saying Midnight that no matter how much the fans complain and write letters about changes to the DS Fest, it won't matter a hill of beans? Is it the "put up or shut up" mind frame at work?
Regarding your first question, I intend to send an email to the Fest committee soon as I leave the forums. I can't say if anyone will be listening but I believe in trying.
And sorry, Rainey. I know this would be your first Fest and hope you have a marvelous time, and I wouldn't presume that you'd feel the same as I do about the Festivals, or fandom.
As for "put up or shut up", yes, that does sum up my opinion about the attitude of the decision maker or makers concerning the needs of the fans, though I do like the idea of getting in his/their face(s) in an effort to change it. At every Fest I've attended, the audience has been polled at least a couple of times to find out how many are attending their first Fest, and the numbers that raise their hands are always pretty amazing. I bring that up because the impression I get from what I've seen about how fans are treated is that what we feel or need isn't important because new fans, or original fans that discover it anew each year, are sufficient to fill the auditorium at each event. And as such, I think it's extremely unfair, not to mention dumb, to diss the large number of fans that have supported the Fests over the years. They make up the majority that staffs the dealers' rooms, that makes up the Festival committee, that parts with their cash in the dealers' rooms, that publishes the books and zines, that writes the fiction, that volunteers to help, that publicizes the events, that continues to inspire each other... I could go on and on.
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I can't imagine how I'd be able to make it with my kids starting new schools the weeks before and after. I won't even get into how I feel about flying to the other coast on a holiday weekend cuz that would undoubtedly trigger one of the forum's censored words.
Well, look at it this way - if you end up not going, then I probably won't go either - and if neither of us goes, then probably Dom won't go - so at least we won't have to wonder who we can find to mind the forum that weekend. ;)
See, there can be a silver lining in almost anything - even IF you have to dig DEEP into the s**t to find it. :-/
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And if none of the people who keep this forum up and running are going to be there.....who would there be to organize a gathering for the Forum members?.....and if we won't have some way of catching up with one another, how many members will decide not to go?
Do any of you guys speak Sicilian, or can I get away with cursing a blue streak over this?
raineypark
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Regarding your first question, I intend to send an email to the Fest committee soon as I leave the forums. I can't say if anyone will be listening but I believe in trying.
As for "put up or shut up", yes, that does sum up my opinion about the attitude of the decision maker or makers concerning the needs of the fans, though I do like the idea of getting in his/their face(s) in an effort to change it. At every Fest I've attended, the audience has been polled at least a couple of times to find out how many are attending their first Fest, and the numbers that raise their hands are always pretty amazing. I bring that up because the impression I get from what I've seen about how fans are treated is that what we feel or need isn't important because new fans, or original fans that discover it anew each year, are sufficient to fill the auditorium at each event. And as such, I think it's extremely unfair, not to mention dumb, to diss the large number of fans that have supported the Fests over the years. They make up the majority that staffs the dealers' rooms, that makes up the Festival committee, that parts with their cash in the dealers' rooms, that publishes the books and zines, that writes the fiction, that volunteers to help, that publicizes the events, that continues to inspire each other... I could go on and on.
Thank you Midnight for your response. It's just as I suspected from reading DS Fest reports at other sites during past years. Even some friends that have attended do so to see their fave star one more time, get an autograph, buy some things in the dealer's room and then hit the streets. Each year the same type of program is held without fail.
I will write just for the hell of it but I'm not hopeful that any of our ideas will get past the mailroom and to the person that counts.
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Each year the same type of program is held without fail.
That's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. Exciting new suggestions have been given to spice up the event, yet every year we're presented with the same tired schedule.
And how many people have complained about the procedure for getting a banquet ticket, yet it never changes? Oh I'd better quit now.
I will write just for the hell of it but I'm not hopeful that any of our ideas will get past the mailroom and to the person that counts.
Good luck, Carol. I really mean that. :)
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And if none of the people who keep this forum up and running are going to be there.....who would there be to organize a gathering for the Forum members?.....and if we won't have some way of catching up with one another, how many members will decide not to go?
Well, we could always appoint you as the official forum ambassador. [winkb]
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...and if we won't have some way of catching up with one another, how many members will decide not to go?
Exactly. After the last fest I attended, I was trying to come up with a good reason to go to another one. (Maybe fests just aren't my thing - lol). Anyway, over the last few months I thought...well, it might be nice to meet some of y'all from this board, you know?
But if Midnite, MB, Dom, and a bunch of others on here aren't going, I can't see much point in going either.
Do any of you guys speak Sicilian, or can I get away with cursing a blue streak over this?
I don't speak Sicilian but I wouldn't mind learning a few choice phrases!
-CLC ;)
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I wonder why the dates have been changed -- and to a holiday weekend. Oy...I can just see the traffic now - people heading in droves out to the Island for the "last weekend of summer".
I can only think of two possibilities. Either a problem with the hotel arose and this was the only alternative availability, OR one of the "major" Fest draws (not naming names, LOL) has announced to Jim Pierson that they've developed a conflict re: the previous date.
Anybody know?
-CLC
Most likely a conflict arose with the hotel. Remember, it was extremely difficult to find a brand new hotel after 9/11 destroyed the Vista and in New York City rising hotel prices make it more and more difficult to find affordable and suitable accomodations for festival attendees and the functions. This means having various rooms available for the panel discussions, the dealer's rooms and a variety of other logistics and just hope that the hotel that has all these things available also will give a good discount for the intended attendees. Conventions are usually booked a year in advance and the festival has had to find new, affordable accomodations along with the necessary logistics in a relatively short amount of time.
It could well be there was some last minute conflict involving the availability of the rooms for the convention. I don't think any organizer sat down and wondered what the most inconvenient dates could be picked for the festival.;) Most of these things are dictated by economics and the best possible scenario in terms of logistics rather than by choice.
You know, there were other conventions booked for 2002 at the since destroyed VISTA hotel at the World Trade Center and the surrounding hotels were damaged in the collapse of the WTC. Organizers of those conventions had to scramble and find other accomodations for their events since they had no idea at that time when the surviving hotels would be repaired and they certainly did not know if attendees would be crazy about staying in lower Manhattan because of the reports of asbestos and other chemicals floating around in the air even after the fire at the WTC went out. So there were plenty of other organizers looking to re-book their conventions/events elsewhere in the city.
I suspect it was the DS festival organizers that had less of a choice in how things ultimately have been scheduled.
Nancy
I believe the fest was held over a Labor Day weekend at least once before.
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Yes, and if I recall correctly, the fest was well attended and some people even thought it was a good weekend to have it as it was a three day holiday for most people, and a last gasp of summer trip. However, I can see why it would be a lousy weekend date for others especially if they teach or have kids getting ready for school. I know a few people on the festival committee who are going to have a hard time with attending for this and other reasons.
Nancy
Actually, there is precedent for holding the Fest that weekend. The 1987 NY Fest was held August 28, 29 & 30 and the 1989 NY Fest (the first one I attended) was held September 2 & 3 (with a party at the site of the former DS studio on the September 1 and a bus trip to Newport on Labor Day itself, September 4). However I can understand why many people might have problems with Labor Day Weekend. ;) And those Fests were held at the World Trade Center Marriott (sigh), not in Brooklyn.
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Do any of you guys speak Sicilian, or can I get away with cursing a blue streak over this?
No, but my Father does. :-)
This is suppose to be my first fest also and Im really looking forward to meeting everyone. But the more I think of drivng over there during a holiday weekend, the more sick to my stomach I get. If any of you have never driven to a place that's near a major city during a holiday weekend, let me tell you, it's no picnic. It can literaly take you 45 minutes just to get from one block to the next. A few people have suggested leaving a few days earlier to get there, but then you'll be digging into your pocket for extra fees. I could just imagine the air fare & bus fees during a holiday weekend!
The only solution I see is what others have suggested to write a letter to the powers that be. Hopefully if enough people write in maybe something can be done.
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(*engages denial mechanisms-full throttle*)
that was fun quoting myself!
but it is appearing that i can't go either. hubby is teacher and this nixs it for me since he can't take the time off. plus step-son goes to college around that time and we may need to help him get moved.
darn and i had my little costume event ditty planned too.
now it will have to be shelved for another time.
what is the sicilian word for **censored due to rules**?
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Sadly, I won't be attending the Festival next year. The NYC ones are usually my only chance to see my friends that I met through fandom, but I always spend that weekend on a remote farm way upstate NY enjoying Nature in all Her myriad splendor.
I'm sure the Festival will be the usual mob scene, no matter how many of us old timers can't make it because of the scheduling. I wonder whether they are going to do compulsory pre registration again as happened in 2001?
Gothick
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Wow just saw this This really stinks don't know if i can get there either the traffic is always horrible getting in
and out of Boston and to NY that W/E will have to see!
jennifer
know a few Sicilian words but will keep them to myself Heehee!
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Sadly, I won't be attending the Festival next year. The NYC ones are usually my only chance to see my friends that I met through fandom, but I always spend that weekend on a remote farm way upstate NY enjoying Nature in all Her myriad splendor.
Gothick
i'm devastated. . .
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The Fest has just released the following statement regarding the date change:
Due to circumstances beyond its control, the Dark Shadows Festival has been forced to change the dates for its 20th anniversary celebration due to scheduling conflicts with celebrity guests. The Festival values the loyal continued involvement of the DS actors and has made every effort so that the fans will be able to enjoy their participation again next year.
The new dates of August 29-31, 2003, at the Brooklyn Marriott Hotel, will also allow the Festival to sponsor a special Monday (Labor Day) Sept. 1 bus trip to Newport, RI, to visit the TV sites of Collinwood and the Blue Whale.
The Festival is very sorry for any inconvenience regarding the change in dates.
This was posted on alt.tv.dark_shadows and also sent in reply to fans who emailed following the date change.
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Well, at least they gave their reasons. I couldn't imagine how it could have been about the hotel once the dates were originally scheduled.
But whoever dreamt up the side trip must be trippin' themselves. I'd sooner get on the Bus to Hell than a bus going from Brooklyn to Newport and back on Labor Day. I can't imagine which would be worse....trying to get there by land through Connecticut (and coming home with all those people on Cape Cod, not to mention the people like Gothick who will meet you at the Throgs Neck bridge coming home from Upstate New York) or trying to get there by driving all the way out on Long Island and taking the ferry across Long Island Sound...which you can't do because I'm pretty sure the ferries don't take buses....but it doesn't matter because even if you could you'd be sitting in return traffic on the Long Island Expressway until Wednesday, with a lot of cranky people who've just closed up their homes in the Hamptons!!!
Not that I'm trying to discourage anyone....but honestly...if anyone is going to the Fest and planning to take that trip, I'd love to hear how it's being organized.
raineypark
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Well, at least they gave their reasons. I couldn't imagine how it could have been about the hotel once the dates were originally scheduled.
Oh but it can, Rainey, it can!! From personal experience I can tell you that even the best places can have major communication problems and the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. I have been involved in a situation where I was helping to organize an event that involved people coming in from out of town, staying at the hotel, and our using three of the rooms for conferences. Well, a few weeks before the event we found out that there had been a scheduling conflict the hotel became aware of at the last minute and we had the choice of changing the event to another date when ALL the rooms would be available or doing without the originally scheduled rooms. We managed to find space elsewhere but it was indeed the hotel's fault as their staff simply booked the rooms twice on the same date.
Nancy
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......We managed to find space elsewhere but it was indeed the hotel's fault as their staff simply booked the rooms twice on the same date.
Well, I certainly hope someone's head rolled for THAT little debacle!! I understand hotel rooms being overbooked...it's the same as flights being overbooked on an airline...people cancel at the last minute and the hotel can't be left with empty rooms.....but when you book something as large as these Fests seems to be....wouldn't you think SOMEONE would have the ultimate responsibility NOT to let a screw up like that occur? And wouldn't it be reasonable to assume they wouldn't keep their job if they didn't?
In THIS case, you have to ask who in the organization didn't make sure that all the invited celebrities were available before the dates were booked. That's not a minor detail, and it's not like they've never done this before!!!
raineypark
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Well, there are always guests who cancel at the last minute due to real life events that need taking care of.
It would be ironic indeed if whomever the changes were made to accommodate wound up not being able to attend.
Could the Mystery Guest be Dan Curtis, I wonder?
Gothick
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Well, I certainly hope someone's head rolled for THAT little debacle!! I understand hotel rooms being overbooked...it's the same as flights being overbooked on an airline...people cancel at the last minute and the hotel can't be left with empty rooms.....but when you book something as large as these Fests seems to be....wouldn't you think SOMEONE would have the ultimate responsibility NOT to let a screw up like that occur? And wouldn't it be reasonable to assume they wouldn't keep their job if they didn't?
You would think that, Rainey but look all around and see what kind of things are allowed to happen even when it's life threatening yet it still happens and under the watch of intelligent and supposedly capable people. So conference rooms getting booked twice by busy hotel staff members for the same date is nothing in comparison. ;) I don't know if anyone was fired over the incident or not; I only know it was a major hassle for us and I know such things have happened to other people.
In THIS case, you have to ask who in the organization didn't make sure that all the invited celebrities were available before the dates were booked. That's not a minor detail, and it's not like they've never done this before!!!
See, I would not make the assumption that's what happened. If there was a history of the dates being set and announced and then changed, I would wonder who was dozing at the switch, but to my knowledge this has not happened before. That makes me think indeed something unforseen happened. Maybe there really is a new and big guest coming to the festival and his/her plans fell through - that on top of maybe one or two of the bigger draw actors had to bow out after their initial commitment. Remember, Rainey, several of the actors who were in DS and do come to the Festival are still working actors . . . and if not acting, they still work at something. The festival has always stated that guests will appear pending professional commitments. The actors are asked about the dates months and months ahead of time and between the time they agree and even a few months down the road, they have been offered a job or have some other professional (or personal) commitment. It used to be, and maybe it still is, the DS actors are not paid to be at the festivals. Their expenses are covered, etc. but even if they got some kind of stipend, they are not about to turn down a job to attend the festival. And those jobs come up at the last minute. This is unusual that more than one conflict arose for the attending actors. I know there have been instances where two big name draws said they could not attend the festival even after the dates were announced and the convention was not rescheduled as a result.
Since the actors are a key draw for fans attending the festival, the absence of them for whatever reason would be the one thing to make the festival be rescheduled. If the projector at the festival broke down and there was not any video as a result, the fest would go on and people would have a good time. But the reality is the actors are the key draw to these events. If more than just a few and/or a big pending "surprise guest" had sudden schedule conflicts, the festival could not simply discount that.
If they went ahead and scheduled the convention and were down several key draws and a potentially a fantastic first-time guest all because they didn't want to change the dates, they would be criticized for making that decision and on top of it have a small turn out of attendees.
Nancy
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I just hope someone will able to go and give us the latest update on Roger Davis' housing development.
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I just hope someone will able to go and give us the latest update on Roger Davis' housing development.
I heard he was able to make some kind of great deal for himself as he talked the seller to death. [lghy]
Nancy
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I heard he was able to make some kind of great deal for himself as he talked the seller to death. [lghy]
Girl.....you're BAD!! :D
rainey
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WOW! I'm glad I tuned in here. Since I have been real busy lately, I'm just finding out about this. I have my reservations so I'd better change them pronto!! Not really a good weekend----but I'm going anyway.
Misty
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I heard he was able to make some kind of great deal for himself as he talked the seller to death. [lghy]
Nancy
ROTFL!! Now this I can believe!! ;-)
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Looks like I won't be able to go to the fest next summer. Labor Day weekend is just too hard. We have to get two young adults off to college and two others ready for school.
There is a slim chance I could get to Newport on Monday but very slim.
Oh well, at least I got there in 200l.
Birdie
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Maybe we should just hold our own festival, since there seem to be so many problems with this one.
That is one seriously good idea! I'm in!
Blue_Whale_Barfly said: I just hope someone will able to go and give us the latest update on Roger Davis' housing development.
And, of course, count how many times he touches his hair!