DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '02 II => Topic started by: joe integlia on September 20, 2002, 08:52:44 PM

Title: blue episode
Post by: joe integlia on September 20, 2002, 08:52:44 PM
todays episode with the sometimes BLUE shots was a result of a tube that went out in one of the cameras. no circuits back then. each main color had a tube. 1 for red, 1 for green, 1 for blue. it probably went out just before taping and there was no time to fix it.
Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: Craig_Slocum on September 20, 2002, 09:14:49 PM
Thanks for explaining that. Whenever I see that particular episode, I always think, oh this is the one where something is wrong with the camera!
Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: TERRY308 on September 20, 2002, 09:16:24 PM
Thanks for telling us.  I thought they were experimenting or something.
Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: doombuggy69 on September 21, 2002, 12:43:34 AM
I am surprised they went ahead and used the bad camera, it was very unprofessional. Couldn't they just get by with using two cameras instead of three, for one day?

There were other episodes besides this one that had bad cameras:

Episode 816, (1987) One bad camera that was used throughout had black lines running across the lens.

Episode 1230, (1841PT) another bad camera that had a "blue" tint to it in the entire episode.

Dan Curtis probably told the crew to let it go on, because "these shows will only be seen once"!
Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: Gerard on September 21, 2002, 02:07:36 AM
Every once in a blue moon (pardon the pun), you see the one-camera-gone-kafooey shot.  I always thought it was kinda neat.  One angle normal - another angle color screwy.  It almost has a dream sequence quality to it.  

Gerard
Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: VAM on September 21, 2002, 02:21:08 AM
Does anyone know if the camera crew was professional? Perhaps they were students enrolled at NYU or another institution and doing this as an internship or co-op program.
Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: Raineypark on September 21, 2002, 02:23:51 AM
Seriously doubtful, Vam.....back then Unions still had teeth and the technicians who worked in television were VERY union!......still are, as far as I know.  Hell, even the writers are Union in the entertainment industry!

Raineypark
Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: Nancy on September 21, 2002, 02:51:53 AM
You could not work in the industry on a show like that unless you were union.  Of course, your equipment can be total crap.

Nancy

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Does anyone know if the camera crew was professional? Perhaps they were students enrolled at NYU or another institution and doing this as an internship or co-op program.

Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: VAM on September 21, 2002, 03:17:46 AM
Quote
You could not work in the industry on a show like that unless you were union.  Of course, your equipment can be total crap.

Pardon me...
Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: Nancy on September 21, 2002, 04:28:32 AM
I think there was more to your sentence VAM but you got booted???

Quote

Pardon me...

Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: petofi on September 21, 2002, 05:01:37 AM
DS Cameras:

In 1966, the camera crew used the black-and-white RCA TK-60 Television/video camera, an industry standard from the mid-fifties until the mid sixties in some markets where the majority of sets were still B&W!  The TK-60 used a single 4 1/2 inch image orthicon tube, also known as a "black tube," for monochrome (black and white)picture production.

When the show switched to color in 1967, ABC-TV provided three Norelco PC-60 Plumbicon color cameras, which had been introduced around 1965, achieving industry standard status by the late sixties.  This camera weighed about 120 pounds, with 40 more pounds added from the large frontal zoom lens.  This weight did not include the power dolly, which made smoother the up, down and rolling motions of each camera. Compared with today's direct video cameras, these were massive!  From my sketchy sourches, I believe that each camera contained three tubes: one each for red, green and blue, for producing a total color picture. Each camera also had a remote unit, the camera control unit(also used in the earlier cams), which powered and monitored the fuctions, including picture output, of each camera.  You see these units and their video monitors in some photos of the control room at the DS studio.  I beleive it was from these CCU's that the signal cables (into phone lines?)went to ABC video recording facilities in downtown  NYC.

Anybody out there into old TV/video cams enough to fill in any holes I've left or correct any errors?
This info came from sales material which appeared in broadcast industry periodicals, such as "Television" magazine, in the sixties.


petofi
Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: VAM on September 21, 2002, 05:22:16 AM
Quote
I think there was more to your sentence VAM but you got booted???


No, that was my response. I thought it was quite obvious that I mentioned about the amateur camera crew jokingly. However, it was not taken that way. I was given a crash course about unions by two individuals. Oh well...
Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: VictoriaWintersRox on September 21, 2002, 05:36:17 AM
Quote
DS Cameras:

In 1966, the camera crew used the black-and-white RCA TK-60 Television/video camera, an industry standard from the mid-fifties until the mid sixties in some markets where the majority of sets were still B&W!  The TK-60 used a single 4 1/2 inch image orthicon tube, also known as a "black tube," for monochrome (black and white)picture production.


Was this a soap opera standard or overall TV standard? The reason I ask is that from all the B&W programs I've seen, DS is the only one that was taped instead of film. The only other time I've seen this is with six episodes of The Twilight Zone which were taped instead of the TZ standard of filming. From what I've read the reason DS and other soaps was taped was because tape was cheaper then film. I don't recall video tape on TV being used often other then on soaps until the '70s and '80s when most shows were taped, and then in the '90s it switched back to filming.
Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: Nancy on September 21, 2002, 07:23:01 AM
You might want to make use of the emoticons in the future so you are not given information you don't want but appear to be asking for by others who thought they were answering a legit question.  There are a few of the emoticons that indicate sarcasm pretty well. ;D

Nancy

Quote

No, that was my response. I thought it was quite obvious that I mentioned about the amateur camera crew jokingly. However, it was not taken that way. I was given a crash course about unions by two individuals. Oh well...

Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: Luciaphile on September 21, 2002, 07:58:24 AM
Quote
Was this a soap opera standard or overall TV standard? The reason I ask is that from all the B&W programs I've seen, DS is the only one that was taped instead of film. The only other time I've seen this is with six episodes of The Twilight Zone which were taped instead of the TZ standard of filming. From what I've read the reason DS and other soaps was taped was because tape was cheaper then film. I don't recall video tape on TV being used often other then on soaps until the '70s and '80s when most shows were taped, and then in the '90s it switched back to filming.


I would be interested in this as well--the look with tape is so very different than film.

Luciaphil
Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: Nancy on September 21, 2002, 08:17:15 AM
Wow, that was fascinating, Petofi. Thank you. I'm looking forward to reading what others who know as much or more about this stuff re the cameras have to share about this subject. Again, thanks! :D
Nancy

Quote
DS Cameras:

In 1966, the camera crew used the black-and-white RCA TK-60 Television/video camera, an industry standard from the mid-fifties until the mid sixties in some markets where the majority of sets were still B&W!  The TK-60 used a single 4 1/2 inch image orthicon tube, also known as a "black tube," for monochrome (black and white)picture production.

[snipped great stuff]
petofi

Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: joe integlia on September 21, 2002, 11:15:02 AM
i dont think any daytime soap was ever on film except i think sunset beach on nbc? never saw it but i think i remember a report on that on et at the time of its debut but i could be wrong. before tape, they were all done LIVE. im sure the economics had  lot to do with it. there was no editing and they were just to air once(LOL).
Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: VAM on September 21, 2002, 12:45:28 PM
Quote
You might want to make use of the emoticons in the future so you are not given information you don't want but appear to be asking for by others who thought they were answering a legit question.  There are a few of the emoticons that indicate sarcasm pretty well. ;D

Nancy,
You are 100% right. After reading my post again, I could see that it might be misinterpreted. I do apologize and hope you will understand and not hold it against me. That will defeat the whole purpose of this message board. I enjoy and find your responses quite interesting. Please keep them coming.

VAM
Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: Raineypark on September 21, 2002, 03:59:54 PM
Vam, I thought your question regarding the possibility of unpaid labour was perfectly reasonable, considering Mr. Curtis' notorious reluctance to part with a dime!! [lghy]

Raineypark
Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: ElizabethGrayson on September 22, 2002, 12:59:20 AM
I think some of the episodes with the greenish tint were because the crew didn't white balance the cameras.  It's hard to explain..my hubby explained it to me - he's a cameraman and told me that if you don't white balance a camera before you use it, you get funky colors.  Between that and the color tubes it's a wonder we got any color at all. LOL
EG
Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: petofi on September 22, 2002, 05:32:32 AM
The black and white cameras I mentioned earlier were the industry-wide standard, as were the color cams a few years later. They were not exclusively used for video recording, however.  They were often used for direct broadcast transmission (live TV).  I believe that kinescopes from many live shows were filmed directly from the camera monitors located on the CCU's(camera control unit). As we know from DS, even color broadcasts were often kinescoped in 16mm black and white film.

By the way, the comment about white balance and camera color output makes total sense.  I have had experiences with more modern Vidcams where my image would "blue out" if I had foolishly neglected to white balance the image before active taping.  I'm sure that even a seasoned professional could occasionally make the same mistake, particularly under the daily pressure of soap opera production.

petofi
Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: Nancy on September 22, 2002, 06:22:18 AM
Does anyone know if aging has anything to do with a "tint" appearing on episodes now that were not visible during the original run?

Nancy

Quote
The black and white cameras I mentioned earlier were the industry-wide standard, as were the color cams a few years later. They were not exclusively used for video recording, however.  They were often used for direct broadcast transmission (live TV).  I believe that kinescopes from many live shows were filmed directly from the camera monitors located on the CCU's(camera control unit). As we know from DS, even color broadcasts were often kinescoped in 16mm black and white film.

By the way, the comment about white balance and camera color output makes total sense.  I have had experiences with more modern Vidcams where my image would "blue out" if I had foolishly neglected to white balance the image before active taping.  I'm sure that even a seasoned professional could occasionally make the same mistake, particularly under the daily pressure of soap opera production.

petofi

Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: VAM on September 22, 2002, 06:29:04 AM
Quote
Vam, I thought your question regarding the possibility of unpaid labour was perfectly reasonable, considering Mr. Curtis' notorious reluctance to part with a dime!! [lghy]

Raineypark

I was trying to say it in  an indirect way-The direct approach would be less problematical. Thanks Rainey for understanding.
Title: Re: blue episode
Post by: joe integlia on September 22, 2002, 11:12:29 AM
i doubt if aging process caused the blue tint cause it would have affected the entire show, not just certain shots.i dont think that not white balancing would have made the image blue. usually its a green image when u dont white balance.