DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '10 II => Topic started by: Garth Blackwood on November 17, 2010, 10:48:30 PM

Title: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: Garth Blackwood on November 17, 2010, 10:48:30 PM
[spoiler]
I was watching the episode from 1840 where Daphne and Gerard got married and noticed something strange about the scene where Quentin arrives right after they married and Trask holds him at gunpoint to return him to the police. During that scene, Daphne clearly comes out of a trance and doesn't remember what happened to her and Gerard doesn't even bother to deny it when Quentin states that she was obviously under a spell, cast by Gerard. Trask hears all of this and is completely unphased and seems to have no problem with the fact that Quentin is innocent and he's been helping the true warlock all along. I thought Trask was only persecuting Quentin because he truly believed he was a warlock-- apparently not. So, what was his motivation? Is he part of the whole underground warlock conspiracy??? haha
[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: MagnusTrask on November 18, 2010, 02:19:40 AM
Hmmm.  The Watching Project is just starting 1840 so I won't see that again for awhile.  I think I was mystified by Trask's motivations at that point too, though.   Maybe he was just too dumb to be able to shift his perspective easily or quickly....   Well, he managed[spoiler]to shoot a witch, one way or another![/spoiler]
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: michael c on November 18, 2010, 03:59:06 AM
sort of OT but i've been watching 1795 again and noticing that reverand trask is sort of ground zero for a new and different type of character on the series...

as portrayed by jerry lacey he is for me the first character played so broadly,so over-the-top,that he inaugurates the era where DS perhaps acquires it's (whisper it!)"camp" reputation.

before trask,even as ghosts as monsters began to overtake the series,the actors played at a certain pitch. it could be a bit flamboyant,a bit on-the-edge(think diana millay and grayson hall),but it never came close to the type of energy lacey brought to the proceedings.it's almost comical.

it's a type of acting/character that continues with doctor lang,adam,tom jennings and others for the remainder of the show's run but for me trask is the first.
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: MagnusTrask on November 18, 2010, 04:15:15 AM
I always thought that the Trasks were credible villains.  No matter how loudly they bellowed, I could believe it.   I could laugh at them too, but straightforwardly, not in that ironic sort of camp way.   I don't laugh at DS but I sometimes laugh with it.   Judgmental self-aggrandizing religious fanatics exist, and are dangerous but ridiculous too.
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: ProfStokes on November 18, 2010, 04:27:33 AM
[spoiler]In part, I think Lamar was too pig-headed and fanatical to ever even consider that he might have made a mistake.  In a broader sense though, I think that by this point, he had developed a grudge against the Collins family as a whole because of their association to Barnabas, who killed his father.  An injury to Quentin would indirectly be a strike back at Barnabas, so it may not have mattered to Lamar if Quentin was really innocent.[/spoiler]

ProfStokes
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: Garth Blackwood on November 18, 2010, 07:46:10 PM
Yes but I think the original Rev Trask really believed what he was doing was right. Gregory and Lamar seemed far more willing to compromise their ethics.
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: Garth Blackwood on November 18, 2010, 07:51:35 PM
[spoiler]In part, I think Lamar was too pig-headed and fanatical to ever even consider that he might have made a mistake.  In a broader sense though, I think that by this point, he had developed a grudge against the Collins family as a whole because of their association to Barnabas, who killed his father.  An injury to Quentin would indirectly be a strike back at Barnabas, so it may not have mattered to Lamar if Quentin was really innocent.[/spoiler]

I can buy that, but why [spoiler]didn't he at least go after Gerard as well?[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on November 18, 2010, 07:55:29 PM
I don't think Gregory had any ethics. All he seemed to want to do was further his position no matter the cost, not even at the cost of human life.  ::)

As for Lamar, I haven't watched 1840 in a while, so I'm really not sure what's going on with him in that scene. And as Magnus mentioned the WP hasn't got up to that ep yet. But I suspect that when it does this topic will be revisited.  :)
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: MagnusTrask on November 18, 2010, 08:40:35 PM
Yes but I think the original Rev Trask really believed what he was doing was right. Gregory and Lamar seemed far more willing to compromise their ethics.

They ALL believed what they were doing was right, and they ALL were self-serving hypocrites.   That's what a hypocrite is: someone who's able to lie to himself, making himself conveniently believe that all the self-aggrandizing and all the pontificating and all the harm they do is for everyone's benefit.

The point of view of the show is clear:  whenever the first Trask is spoken of after we leave 1795, he is always characterized as vicious, dangerous, and hypocritical.   The first Trask's life consisted of compromising the principles he claimed to uphold.    It shouldn't be necessary to point out that he bribed Forbes to lie on the stand, when you only have to listen to him to know he's in it for his own ego and need for power over others.

I'd take Lamar over Trask #1 any day.   At least Lamar didn't have the delusions of perfection and power that made the first Trask feel free to do any violent thing he felt like doing, such as tying governesses to trees.

Gregory was completely able to excuse any and all selfish, material inpulses in himself as being for others' benefit.   Even though it makes no sense to us when he claims controlling Collinwood is for the benefit of the poor, crazy Collinses, he believes it.   He can make himself believe anything he wants; so technically you could say he "meant well", and you could say the same about the other Trasks... but so what?    "Meaning well" loses all meaning, when you're talking about people like this.
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: Patti Feinberg on November 21, 2010, 01:40:25 AM
I totally agree with ProfStokes about Trask(s) having it 'in' for the Collins. And, I further agree that the character portrayal was over-the-top fervent fanatical (crazy!)

Patti
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: Philippe Cordier on November 24, 2010, 07:54:49 AM
An injury to Quentin would indirectly be a strike back at Barnabas, so it may not have mattered to Lamar if Quentin was really innocent.

A very good analysis that makes this otherwise puzzling behavior understandable.

mscbryk writes:
Quote
as portrayed by jerry lacey he is for me the first character played so broadly,so over-the-top,that he inaugurates the era where DS perhaps acquires it's (whisper it!)"camp" reputation

I always thought Dennis Patrick was a bit over-the-top as Jason Maguire, but as I re-watch the first and second DVDs (the introduction to Barnabas), I'm not seeing that as much as I remembered. But I think you're right that Jerry Lacey's portrayal was a major departure from believability. I had liked him as Tony (?) and was really disappointed in the way he followed that up with such a cartoonish portrayal of Trask. As you say, that was the first of many such performances on DS, although it's most pronounced with the "villains." (I've been pelted with angry comments for this in the past and am not hoping to open a can of worms, but that's the way it seems to me and I wanted to affirm your observation. It is the type of performance that I think turns away the casual viewer and leads to the typical dismissive comments of the series as a whole)
 
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: Gothick on November 25, 2010, 05:32:04 AM
I think the Trask character had hated the Collinses for awhile.  He blamed them for the death of Roxanne, and then found out about his father.  I think by the time of the scene Garth Blackwood mentions, Lamar Trask is completely loony-tunes--his attempt to murder Barnabas establishes that fairly conclusively, I would say.

Just to defend Jerry Lacy, I'm not sure that the Trask character could have been effectively played in a more "understated" or "realistic" vein.  A number of the actors' memories of the direction on DS starting around this time refer to Henry Kaplan pushing for "more, bigger reaction" from the performers, particularly in those cliffhanger close-ups while Sybil angled the needle onto the sting record.  I remember a description of a set visit from 1970 where the journalist described Selby staring into camera three in fixed, utter horror for nearly a full-minute, then collapsing on the floor with laughter once the red light went off.  (In all fairness, Grayson might have been mugging and pulling faces at him off-camera--she did that sometimes because she did have a naughty streak.)

I thought Lacy had fabulous moments in each of his characterizations.  Gregory was my favorite because the hypocrisy was so deliciously nuanced, and I think in part we have Violet Welles' writing to thank for that.  The writing during 1840 got very loose IMO mainly because once again the writers were being goaded to run the story off the rails, this time by Lela because DC was off preparing his fabulous career as the new Orson Welles for liftoff *rolls eyes*.

Happy Thanksgiving, all.

G.
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: MagnusTrask on November 25, 2010, 09:08:00 AM
I've always hated the occasional periods of over-acting in DS, but have never included the Trasks in any of that.   It's not automatically better to have all characters act in an understated way.   Not everyone is like that.   In fact, Trask may be my favorite thing about DS.
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: Philippe Cordier on November 26, 2010, 07:45:08 AM
A number of the actors' memories of the direction on DS starting around this time refer to Henry Kaplan pushing for "more, bigger reaction" from the performers, particularly in those cliffhanger close-ups while Sybil angled the needle onto the sting record.  I remember a description of a set visit from 1970 where the journalist described Selby staring into camera three in fixed, utter horror for nearly a full-minute, then collapsing on the floor with laughter once the red light went off. 

MB has written about this several times too (not sure if he mentioned Henry Kaplan specifically). So many of these actors have done excellent work outside of DS (Chris Pennock, for example, and Addison Powell, apparently) that I'm sure the direction must have been a big part of the larger-than-life acting. It has taken me a while to see that, because on the other hand there were villains on DS who didn't "overact," IMO, such as James Storm. Perhaps someone else was directing Mr. Storm!

Performances in the two DS movies were uniformly "realistic," on the other hand. I appreciated seeing the theatrical showing of HODS in Burbank this summer because the acting in some cases had nuances that didn't come across as well viewing on a small TV screen.

Hope everyone had an enjoyable Thanksgiving!
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: michael c on November 26, 2010, 07:55:21 PM
i don't doubt for a minute that alot of lacey's overacting as trask came from his direction...

but still lacey himself said on one of the dvd interviews trask was pure melodrama and "mustache twirling at it's best"(his words not mine). it's almost like that classic villain from the silent movie era(broad,over-the-top gestures)except that we could hear trask and to say his voice was abrasive would be an understatement.

and not all DS villians behaved in such a ham-handed fashion...certainly not frid even at his worst. not parker. not selby. and as someone mentioned not james storm either.

i haven't seen any of his other work but just in terms of DS lacey was not exactly subtle. even his early tony peterson was such an obvious riff on "bogey" it was almost laughable.
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: MagnusTrask on November 26, 2010, 08:05:45 PM
Sometimes subtlety is the wrong choice.   It's a bit of a miracle for me that Trask(s) could be such an extreme villain, yet totally credible at the same time.   I wouldn't be at all surprised if there have been many such people in real life who have ranted like that.   These are unbalanced people, who have found their way into positions of authority.   

The Trasks sometimes spoke quietly, by the way.  We fixate on the booming voice because that's when Trask is the most Trask-like.
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: Philippe Cordier on November 26, 2010, 10:05:33 PM
... lacey himself said on one of the dvd interviews trask was pure melodrama and "mustache twirling at it's best"(his words not mine). it's almost like that classic villain from the silent movie era

LOL - I used "Snidely Whiplash" in a post some years ago in describing one of DS's villains (not sure if it was Trask), as well as the silent movie characterization.  [hall2_grin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snidely_Whiplash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snidely_Whiplash)

Quote
and not all DS villians behaved in such a ham-handed fashion...certainly not frid even at his worst. not parker. not selby. and as someone mentioned not james storm either.

That was why I had difficulty accepting for a long time MB's comments that it was the direction/producers, and not the actor, who wanted the "broad" style of acting.

Magnus Trask wrote:
Quote
It's a bit of a miracle for me that Trask(s) could be such an extreme villain, yet totally credible at the same time.

The problem for me is that I don't find the character credible -- because of the manner of presentation. He seemed like a villain with a capital "V" -- and just using that term implies that the character is one step removed from reality. I guess we all have our individual responses to these things. I'll try to keep an open mind on my next viewing, though. I think Gothick has talked in the past about "realism" not necessarily being the aim of "Dark Shadows."
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on November 26, 2010, 10:08:48 PM
I wouldn't be at all surprised if there have been many such people in real life who have ranted like that.   These are unbalanced people, who have found their way into positions of authority.

In reference to that I'll mention that I've never really found any of the Trasks to be camp or over-the-top and wouldn't even blame the directors for going overboard with any them. And the reason for that is most probably because back in the days when DS originally ran on ABC, one of my aunts religiously watched the televangelists who were quite prevalent on TV, particularly on Sunday mornings. Trust me, compared to some of their histrionics, 1795 Trask was positively restrained and understated.  [hall2_wink]  [hall2_rolleyes]
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on November 26, 2010, 10:25:02 PM
comments that it was the direction/producers, and not the actor, who wanted the "broad" style of acting.

The 1986 Fest video linked from YouTube in this topic says it all and leaves little doubt that it wasn't the actors.  [hall2_wink]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaN32QTuK2Y

Lara Parker explains the DS acting style
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: Gothick on November 27, 2010, 01:59:15 AM
In reference to mscbryk's comment...

Next time a fly tries to make a landing right on your nose when you're in the middle of a heated exorcism, *you* try blowing it away in a nonchalant, understated manner!  *wink*

cheers, G.
Title: Re: Lamar Trask's motivation?
Post by: IluvBarnabas on January 10, 2011, 08:10:47 PM
As others have said, I believe that Trask had become hostile to the rest of the Collins at this point, especially Quentin, even more so after learning about what transpired between Barnabas and his father back in 1795. He didn't want to believe he could have been wrong about Quentin.

I mean, his dad, the originial Trask was pretty much the same way. Nothing convinced him that anyone other than Vicki could have been the witch until Barnabas showed him up on it.