DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '02 II => Topic started by: TERRY308 on September 05, 2002, 01:46:18 AM
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I don't know about you, but Betsy Durkin makes me sick. Shes nothing like Vicki. It seems to me that she demands that everybody listen to her. Also, it looks like she's ate a lot of Ho-Ho's and Suzy-Q's.
Go to Widows Hill and JUMP OFF!!!!!
If Burke Devlin was still around, I would help you get on that plane with him, and go to Brazil.
If I were Nicky, you wouldn't make it out my doorway.
You're a horrible actress.
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AM's style as an actress was very understated. Betsy Durkin comes across a little too strong. She just doesn't compare well to AM in looks or style. :P
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I can just not see anything similar between Alexandra Moltke and Betsy Durkin. The only thing that makes them look in any way alike is that they both wore ugly sleeveless clothes from Ohrbach's. I thought Betsy was an OK actress. She reminded me of that lady who played Sandy in the first episode of DS. I can see her doing an OK job as another new character, but she's not a good Vicki at all.
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Funny, for the past couple of months or so AM looked like she was on some big time painkillers. A glazed look in the eye and pretty subdued. Then "The Betsy" gets on and has a confrontation with Nicholas like the Vicky of old.
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>:( As I said in The New Vicki, I don't like any of the sleevless frocks the ladies wear. Even Liz springs out in a dress without sleeves occasionally. Isn't it winter? If it is not, Julia and Willie (and Barnabus doesn't count) should be awfully hot in their heavy coats!
Afan
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>:( As I said in The New Vicki, I don't like any of the sleevless frocks the ladies wear. Even Liz springs out in a dress without sleeves occasionally. Isn't it winter? If it is not, Julia and Willie (and Barnabus doesn't count) should be awfully hot in their heavy coats!
Yes, these episodes are from November 1968. I would imagine it would be very chilly in Maine in November, especially since Collinsport is near the ocean.
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Gee, I felt deprived of hearing Alexandra Moltke's voice saying one more time I DON'T UNDERSTAND when Barnabas was telling Vicki about Vampires. Anyone else?
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The only good thing about Ms. Durkin's stint on DS is that is very short!
MrsJ.
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I don't know about you, but Betsy Durkin makes me sick. Shes nothing like Vicki. It seems to me that she demands that everybody listen to her. Also, it looks like she's ate a lot of Ho-Ho's and Suzy-Q's.
Go to Widows Hill and JUMP OFF!!!!!
If Burke Devlin was still around, I would help you get on that plane with him, and go to Brazil.
If I were Nicky, you wouldn't make it out my doorway.
You're a horrible actress.
Your post about Betsy Durkin is a little cruel. That must be why I laughed so hard.
;-)
One wonders if this recast was made too hastily by necessity. I think the recast would have worked if they had taken the time to find someone more like Alexandra Moltke. The next Vicki, Carolyn Groves, isn't too bad, but by then it was too little too late.
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The only good thing about Ms. Durkin's stint on DS is that is very short!
Nobody could've replaced Alexandra Moltke, she was on the show from the beginning, nobody else will do.
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Nobody could've replaced Alexandra Moltke, she was on the show from the beginning, nobody else will do.
And nobody could've replaced her hair!! Haha, but seriously, after watching today' episodes, it really seems like a HUGE mistake to replace the character of Victoria. I think the show would've been a whole lot better off with just the void left by a character's departure than with Betts.
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And nobody could've replaced her hair!!
True. She has lots of hair!!
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I don't know about you, but Betsy Durkin makes me sick. Shes nothing like Vicki. It seems to me that she demands that everybody listen to her. Also, it looks like she's ate a lot of Ho-Ho's and Suzy-Q's.
Go to Widows Hill and JUMP OFF!!!!!
If Burke Devlin was still around, I would help you get on that plane with him, and go to Brazil.
If I were Nicky, you wouldn't make it out my doorway.
You're a horrible actress.
AW......C'mon......tell us how you REALLY feel.
ROFL
-CLC
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AW......C'mon......tell us how you REALLY feel.
ROFL
oh terry that was priceless I think Vicki could be recast
but she was not the one! who called her The Icky Vicki ?love that one!
jennifer
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who called her The Icky Vicki ?love that one!
Um, you did. Really. :)
Do your kids watch The Fairly Odd Parents on Nick? The little boy calls his babysitter "Icky Vicky", and one episode has a whole song number with that title...
Hey Vicky, you're so so icky,
just the thought of being around you makes me oh so sicky.
Hey Vicky, won't you please explain
why you get so much enjoyment out of causing kids pain...
Hmmm. :D
(lyrics provided by my daughter)
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Gee, I felt deprived of hearing Alexandra Moltke's voice saying one more time I DON'T UNDERSTAND when Barnabas was telling Vicki about Vampires. Anyone else?
I thought the same thing. I kept saying it to my husband during Barnabas' speech.
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At least they could of found someone who resembles A.M. somewhat. I gather that they found this one in a hurry.
The second Vicky replacement isn't all that bad though, at least the hairstyles the same! :-)
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I just found it funny that after all this time, when Vicki finally regains her original daring and intelligence and actually goes to and stands up to Nicholas, that has to be the first time without the "real" Vicki!!
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I know AM was pregnant and they released her from her contract, but surely they knew her departure date and could have auditioned a few more appropriate actresses for her replacement.
For me, the problem with Betsy Durkin is her voice. It's so shrill! Vicki had a refined, cultured-sounding voice, soft and nice. This choice might have been made in haste, but there was really no reason for it.
Joanna Going, who potrayed Vicki in the 1991 series remake would have been wonderful, but probably not born yet. And I think Kate Jackson, who joined the show later, would have been a decent replacement for Moltke, but she was still in acting school then.
It's a pity. Vicki's was a pivotal role and they used Durkin, a huge mistake to big fans of the original actress.
Love, Robin
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Hey gang,
From these rather pointed and candid statements about AM's replacement, I guess it's safe to say that, along with the great Addison Powell, Ms. Betsy Durkin will most definitely NOT be attending any Dark Shadows festivals in the near future!
Bob the Bartender, who's grateful that Dan Curtis never replaced Bob O'Connell, at least, during any of the so-called "real time" DS episodes.
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Um, you did. Really. :)
Do your kids watch The Fairly Odd Parents on Nick? The little boy calls his babysitter "Icky Vicky", and one episode has a whole song number with that title...
Hey Vicky, you're so so icky,
just the thought of being around you makes me oh so sicky.
Hey Vicky, won't you please explain
why you get so much enjoyment out of causing kids pain...
Hmmm. :D
(lyrics provided by my daughter)
really Midnite but i knew i got it from somewhere
(my original thought days are slim these days)heehee
my daughter watches that show and i remember she told me it after i told her i almost named her Victoria
it suits this Vicki though and i agree it is the voice!
jennifer
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it really seems like a HUGE mistake to replace the character of Victoria. I think the show would've been a whole lot better off with just the void left by a character's departure than with Betts.
I couldn't agree more. They should have just written the character of Vickie out of the story. Like Robin alludes to in her post, the writers and directors had to have a good idea when Alexandra would be leaving the show, and had ample time to rewrite or revise the story line.
Lets face it, we as a society are pretty much creatures of habit. As such, whether we're conscious of it or not, we tend to fight change. Replacing an actor/actress who the audience has become very familiar with in a particular role over an extended period of time is just not gonna fly
Personally, I don't think Betsy Durkin was that bad of an actress. She just had the misfortune of stepping in to a role that someone else had already established and nurtured over an extended period of time. As audience members we became accustomed to how Alexandra played the role of Vickie, and more often then not we knew how she would react (in character) to certain circumstances.
I'll go even further out on the line and say; that regardless of whom the show had chose at the time to replace Alexandra as Vickie, we as audience members would have never been completely satisfied with their performance.
Bob
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They should have just written the character of Vickie out of the story...the writers...had to have a good idea when Alexandra would be leaving the show, and had ample time to rewrite or revise the storyline.
It does seem like bad planning.
But Dark Shadows always seemed to have a bad habit of cutting the emotional resonance down to nil when a character exited.
It's like when Burke Devlin died offscreen or having another actor play Dave Woodard in that character's emotionally charged final days.
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[color=FF00FF]Have *I* mentioned lately how much I HATE Betsy Durkin???? [uzi]
Besides just being a horrible actress.....Soemthing else occured to me as I was tolerating her so called performance yesterday. Unlike Alexandra, she has no class or style about her. Even when AM's Vicki was acting clueless, saying "I don't understand", she had a very classy style, presence if you will. Durkin is just like a little rabid critter, snarling and spitting..."You're not marrying Maggie, Nicholas...blah, blah, blah..." If I were Nick I'd put a spell on her giving her permanent laryngitis. Grrrrr, Arrgh, glad she is only temp.
Y'know, Gail Strickland (1897's) Dorcas Trilling, wouldn't have been so bad as a replacement Vicki.[/color]
[color=87CEEB][shadow=FF00FF,left,300]Always, Minja [vylnt][/shadow][/color]
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Durkin is just like a little rabid critter, snarling and spitting..."You're not marrying Maggie, Nicholas...blah, blah, blah..."
Her voice really got to me. It sort of reminded me of Minnie Mouse.[scrm] I never saw her again in any TV shows or Soaps after that.
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I never saw her again in any TV shows or soaps after that.
According to imdb.com, Dark Shadows was Betsy Wetsy's only television or film work.
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Dark Shadows always seemed to have a bad habit of cutting the emotional resonance down to nil when a character exited.
Worse than that, some characters had no explanation for their leaving, and were never mentioned again. Bad planning indeed!
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Like Robin alludes to in her post, the writers and directors had to have a good idea when Alexandra would be leaving the show, and had ample time to rewrite or revise the story line.
Not necessarily. Jonathan Frid was asked about this particular situation at a Fest once (I read the transcript here in this forum) and he said he had wondered the same thing at the time; he didn't know how much "the front office" knew about what was going on w/Alexandra Moltke. The writers may well have been unaware that her departure was imminent.
It's also important to consider that, by Moltke's own admission, she used an obscure "act of God" clause in her contract that allowed her to leave. It doesn't seem to be the case that she simply asked to be released from her contract and was granted her request.
I'll go even further out on the line and say; that regardless of whom the show had chose at the time to replace Alexandra as Vickie, we as audience members would have never been completely satisfied with their performance.
I think the audience would have accepted a recast . . . if it was a good one. If they had the time to find a suitable replacement, and found a really good actress, I think it might have worked, given how little Victoria was involved in the present story line. But I guess we'll never know for sure.
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What they could have done is send Vicky away for a while and have her return in a month or two and concentrate on Chris and Quentin in the meantime.
Betsy Durkin probably thought she made it big time when she got this part...I feel sorry for her.
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I agree that a replacement could've worked, but they should've looked further then Betsy. Betsy Durkin and AM are just not a like in the way they talk. AM has that sorta 'classy' wandering voice at times, but Betsy just has that SHRILL voice. Betsy Durkin reminds me of the actress who played Sandy in episode one (I think I stated that in this thread, forgot if it was in this one or the other BD thread LOL). They should've just have had Jeff and Vicki get married in #626 or #625 like they planned before Jeff went into Petermadness. That would've wrapped up the Vicki storyline, Jeff and Vicki go back into past, kablam. No more Vicki involved in the storyline, no need for replacement (and probably no Roger Davis for a few weeks - an added plus!). I can see Jaclyn Smith making a good replacement Victoria. I haven't seen Carolyn Groves act, but in terms of looks she looks more like Alexandra.
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I can see Jaclyn Smith making a good replacement Victoria.
Cool idea, VWR!
I suggest that we have a seance...a seance that would send us through space and time, back to the year 1968 to see if we can fix the Vicki Problem.
[spin] [wink2]
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Betsy Durkin probably thought she made it big time when she got this part...I feel sorry for her.
That's how I was beginning to feel this time around Joeytrom. She really seemed to be trying too hard.
Well, I guess we could look at it this way...her hyper poodle version of Vicki seems to fit Davis' manic Peter/Jeff character much better. Can you imagine how tense (and dense) their children would be? They'd be running all over the estate clutching their hair and yelling "I don't understand, I don't understand, I DON'T UNDERSTAND! Ahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!" - right into the sea... [nuts]
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It makes me sooooo happy that so many people just hate Betsy Durkin's "Vicki" as much as I do. It's a pity that Carolyn Groves wasn't cast first- she was an Alexandra lookalike who acted the role in a demure fashion like Ms. Moltke. Betsy was too damn strident and agressive and overplayed her lines. Worse yet, she was the wrong type physically!! Considering the VAST amounts of young actresses available in NYC ( a situation that hasn't changed in 34 years!), the DS brass could've done better- MUCH better!! I'm sure that DC and the other production personnel had advance warning from Alexandra regarding her pregnancy (from what I've heard, she was having a difficult pregnancy and REALLY needed time off!!) and should have invested more time into finding a replacement actress who looked and acted like Alexandra. The "Durkin Era" is definitely the low point of the 1968/69 storyline, otherwise one of the BEST in "Dark Shadows" history.........
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Dan Curtis' wife probably got her the job.
;D
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That's how I was beginning to feel this time around Joeytrom. She really seemed to be trying too hard.
Well, I guess we could look at it this way...her hyper poodle version of Vicki seems to fit Davis' manic Peter/Jeff character much better. Can you imagine how tense (and dense) their children would be? They'd be running all over the estate clutching their hair and yelling "I don't understand, I don't understand, I DON'T UNDERSTAND! Ahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!" - right into the sea... [nuts]
you know she really does go with Jeff Clark better
Castle Bee LOL i always thought AM's Vicki was too good for him but this one suits him! Could also see their off spring
like you described,with voices like Hallie /Carrie could be used as secret weapons in war! anyone would surrender after hearing them
jennifer
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It's a pity that Carolyn Groves wasn't cast first- she was an Alexandra lookalike who acted the role in a demure fashion like Ms. Moltke. Betsy was too damn strident and agressive and overplayed her lines. Worse yet, she was the wrong type physically!!
It sure was a pity! Carolyn Groves was much more reserved and also had a classier way about her, not to mention that she resembled A.M. alot more than Betsy did. Perhaps the writers realized (a bit late) that Durkin just wasn't the right one. I imagine they must have gotten tons of fan mail over it too. It seems obvious that they found this one in a hurry.
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Hey gang,
Oh, come on! (I always seem to find myself in the unenviable position of having to defend certain DS actors, read Addison Powell, Roger Davis, etc.)
I'm sure that Betsy Durkin is a nice Irish girl/lady. As my late grand uncle Jimmy used to say: "Give the lass a chance. She'a a good egg. She's Irish!"
Top of the mornin' to ya!
Bob the Bartender
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"The part of Victoria Winters is being played by Miss Betsy Durkin..."
Okay, we get it! Do we have to hear that in the opening credits of EVERY episode that she's in?!
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"The part of Victoria Winters is being played by Miss Betsy Durkin..."
Okay, we get it! Do we have to hear that in the opening credits of EVERY episode that she's in?!
I guess it was a way of telling those who throw up at the sight of Betsy to clear the room or to get out the barf bags, lol.
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I'm sure that Betsy Durkin is a nice Irish girl/lady. As my late grand uncle Jimmy used to say: "Give the lass a chance. She'a a good egg. She's Irish!"
Okay Bob...I'll cut her a wee bit o'slack for that reason and that alone! But I would still never cast her in a DS role beyond a friend to Carolyn and even then it would be a walk on (and right back off again).
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I would still never cast her in a DS role beyond a friend to Carolyn and even then it would be a walk on (and right back off again).
Yeah, but something tells me that you just might be tempted to have her get hit by a car or something before the end of that episode ...
Poor Betsy could not evoke the understated mood that AM so capably did. Had she done so, at least it would have been debatable whether she adequately replaced AM. Even though I am no fan of Anthony George, he at least brought enough direction to the Burke Devlin character to attract a following to defend him.
To the poster who found BD "shrill," just wait till Kathy Cody arrives. I always felt that she epitomized "shrill" better than anyone.
Ben
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Ok watching two more episodes of her I've decided she isn't as terrible as I thought but I agree with CastleBee that she would've been best if she was Carolyn's friend in an episode or two.
On the topic of replacements, I thought Anthony George did a very good job replacing Mitch Ryan. I thought they were both equally good, maybe I think this because I saw Anthony George before Mitch Ryan ?!?
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Dear CastleBee,
Thank you. (I think!)
Bob the Bartender, defender of downtrodden Dark Shadows actors.
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The 3rd Victoria isn't soo bad ..right? I only saw her in one or two eps. .maybe that's all she had when the B-man goes back to save her from the gallows. . .
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The 3rd Victoria isn't soo bad ..right? I only saw her in one or two eps. .maybe that's all she had when the B-man goes back to save her from the gallows. . .
Julia99, I think you're right that Carolyn Groves was only in several episodes. Still, just seeing her for that short time made me feel that she could have been a successful replacement for Alexandra Moltke. As I mentioned in another post, it's a shame she didn't replace Moltke first, instead of Betsy Durkin.
As for Betsy Durkin, watching this time around I really tried to be more charitable towards her, but she was just so terrible in the role! The show should have taken much more care in re-casting such an important character. In my opinion, this was the worst re-cast in the history of the show (although she faces strong competition from Peter Turgeon!).
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you people are terrible! It has gotta be hard to replace such an important person in a show. And, Betsy Durkin looked like she was eating rice and tofu (not ding dong's or whatever). She didn't have flabby arms or anything. I feel bad for her, for what she's probably have had to go through, because of cruel fans. And I don't know why you are making a big deal about her. She's only in 10 episodes.
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you people are terrible! It has gotta be hard to replace such an important person in a show. And, Betsy Durkin looked like she was eating rice and tofu (not ding dong's or whatever). She didn't have flabby arms or anything. I feel bad for her, for what she's probably have had to go through, because of cruel fans. And I don't know why you are making a big deal about her. She's only in 10 episodes.
Durkin isn't heavy, but she's shorter than AM and she's also got a fuller face.
Aside fron her personal appearance, though, she's is (or was) an actress, and taking criticism for one's performance is part of the job.
I'm less than impressed with Durkin. She's more querulous than anything else. I think the part of Vicki could have been recast successfully. They had a fair amount of heavy story going on at the time; why they didn't take the time to close that out properly and use the extra time to recast someone who was a better performer is a mystery.
Carolyn Groves does a rather nice job and it's a pity they didn't go with her instead.
Luciaphil
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you people are terrible! It has gotta be hard to replace such an important person in a show. And, Betsy Durkin looked like she was eating rice and tofu (not ding dong's or whatever). She didn't have flabby arms or anything. I feel bad for her, for what she's probably have had to go through, because of cruel fans. And I don't know why you are making a big deal about her. She's only in 10 episodes.
Anyway, bad cast changing is terrible. On "All My Children," they replaced a short blonde actor with a tall brunette. A dark, round faced man with a light, long headed dude.
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Aside fron her personal appearance, though, she's is (or was) an actress, and taking criticism for one's performance is part of the job.
I dunno...
I mean, she sucks, but shes not the worst ever. I'm sure you could have fished around and found a boatload of worse VW's. I think a lot of Durkin's "badness" or whatever comes from her replacing the wrong actress, and I don't think shed have been quite so inept in an original role. As for taking criticism being part of the job, I'm not sure anyone deserves to be blasted every 3 years from here to eternity.
On the other hand... she (and all the other actors) probably does get a very small check in the mail everytime one of these episodes is shown, so i guess we can go at her.
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Actually, no. The bigger "stars" of DS don't even get a small check anymore in the current syndication, never mind the actors who appeared on the show even less. And the actors had to chase after MPI for several years just to get paid for the video release in some nominal way.
On the other hand... she (and all the other actors) probably does get a very small check in the mail everytime one of these episodes is shown, so i guess we can go at her.
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Actually, no. The bigger "stars" of DS don't even get a small check anymore in the current syndication, never mind the actors who appeared on the show even less. And the actors had to chase after MPI for several years just to get paid for the video release in some nominal way.
Hi Nancy,
I've often wondered about this. I don't understand how an actor can not be paid when their work is televised. Is it different for actors than for musicians?
Do you happen to know what union(s) actors belong to?
I know that if an old show is televised, and a musician performed on it, they have to be paid. They won't be paid voluntarily mind you, but if you contact AFTRA, and give them the show, when it was aired, etc., you will be sent a check....somewhere in the vicinity of $100 to $200 - give or take.
Did the actors just get paid one flat fee from MPI and that's it?
This all seems very unfair.
-Connie
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Connie,
You might be horrified to know that most of the performers in the best loved shows of the 1960s and early 1970s made little or no money when the television shows that made them household names went in syndication. Much of the reason had to do with no contractual consideration for the event of rebroadcasting the shows. The syndication of TV shows came later than when original contracts were drafted and signed. The same is true with merchandising deals. DS actors whose likenesses were used on DS merchandising were paid a flat fee. Agents of the time didn't forsee that merchandising would again be an issue with the syndication of the TV show because syndication was still to be a new thing.
Ultimately, the in the case of the business with MPI, the actor's union for TV and radio A.F.T.R.A. stepped in and some agreement was reached. However, this much I can tell you - no DS performer made big money off of DS. Those who did make good money in the very lucrative personal appearances/publicity tours done at the time.
I'm being overly simplistic regarding the above as there is much more involved than what I'm talking about. However, that is the gist of it. ;)
Nancy
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Carolyn Groves does a rather nice job and it's a pity they didn't go with her instead.
Luciaphil
Yes, I totally agree. I just finished watching Carolyn Groves on my MPI tapes and thought she did a good job as Vicky. It also didn't hurt that she had the same long brown hair as A.M. did.
I think the writers probably realized (somewhat too late) that Betsy wasn't hitting it off as Vicky, and also perhaps with the fans as well. Otherwise, they would have kept Betsy Durkin on and not even bother to re-cast Carolyn Groves as Vicky #3.
What really got me was the fact that such an important character role such as Vicky's was re-cast so suddenly without much thought going into the actual replacement. They must have had some idea that A.M. was planning to leave the show. Why didn't they take the time to do the job right the first time around? Carolyn Groves would have worked out fine and perhaps they might have even found some more storylines to add her into as Vicky.
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The writers/producer probably didn't care. The character of Vicky had become less and less important to the show and since they were going to tie up that loose end, I don't imagine much thought or care went into the replacement. First available and most tolerable for the camera, lol. I don't imagine much effort went into the casting process since the character was being written out and the episodes featuring the replacement would never been seen again in their mind. Just guessing of course.
nancy
I think the writers probably realized (somewhat too late) that Betsy wasn't hitting it off as Vicky, and also perhaps with the fans as well. Otherwise, they would have kept Betsy Durkin on and not even bother to re-cast Carolyn Groves as Vicky #3.
What really got me was the fact that such an important character role such as Vicky's was re-cast so suddenly without much thought going into the actual replacement. They must have had some idea that A.M. was planning to leave the show. Why didn't they take the time to do the job right the first time around? Carolyn Groves would have worked out fine and perhaps they might have even found some more storylines to add her into as Vicky.
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I can't agree with the harshest critics of Miss Durkin. She probably did the best she could walking into a major role without much preparation.
I agree that her voice was a little too shrill. Despite that, I still remember thinking that it was good to see Victoria have a little gumption for a change. She didn't give the impression of being a shy, retiring little wall flower. Her physical appearance was a little more athletic looking then AM also. I could picture her working out on the treadmill in the cellar.
From what I've read, Miss Durkin's natural hair-color was blonde and they died it brown for the role. Her face and skin coloring were actually very pretty.
She did seem to kiss Jeff Clark with much more enthusiasm than AM did towards the end of the show. Overall, besides the shrill voice, I can't give her bad marks for her performance. A six out of a possible 10 if you will.
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You might be horrified to know that most of the performers in the best loved shows of the 1960s and early 1970s made little or no money when the television shows that made them household names went in syndication. Much of the reason had to do with no contractual consideration for the event of rebroadcasting the shows. The syndication of TV shows came later than when original contracts were drafted and signed. The same is true with merchandising deals. DS actors whose likenesses were used on DS merchandising were paid a flat fee. Agents of the time didn't forsee that merchandising would again be an issue with the syndication of the TV show because syndication was still to be a new thing.
I've read of this happening outside of DS. In Ginger Rogers' autobiography, she wrote that at some point her mother (IIRC) had suggested that Rogers' agent fight for provision for "television" in her contract, but no one had any idea at the time what television really was or could be, so the agent didn't press for it and as a consequence, Rogers never got any residuals when her films were screened on television. This seems to be fairly typical from what I've read.
There was also a western star whose name I forget--his agent had fought for the TV clause--after his heyday the actor had washed-up for a time, broke, of course. Was considered a has-been. When they started airing the old westerns on TV, the actor was one of the few who cleaned up big time.
And didn't Peggy Lee sue Disney when they released The Aristocats on video because she didn't get any recompense?
Luciaphil
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It seems to me as if the cast of Gilligan's Island has been the most vocal about not getting syndication money, which must really be hard on them--considering how long those reruns have been around. IIRC, Dawn Wells and Russell Johnson have both said that no one back then knew TV would be what it is today...
Sad for them, considering that, from what those two cast members have said, Jim Backus pretty much went through his money trying to maintain his remaining health at the end of his life.
The only guy who seemingly knew the power of TV during its infancy was Desi Arnaz, who, in 1951, insisted on retaining ownership of I Love Lucy. Of course, CBS thought the show would be a flop, so they gladly agreed.
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Audrey Meadows (Alice Kramden of THE HONEYMOONERS) did forsee the possibility that her appearance on the Jackie Gleason show might be re-used at a later date. "Residuals" got written into her contract and needless to say, she made a nice chunk of change out of that deal. But that kind of foresight was not commonplace which is really unfortunate.:(
Nancy
It seems to me as if the cast of Gilligan's Island has been the most vocal about not getting syndication money, which must really be hard on them--considering how long those reruns have been around. IIRC, Dawn Wells and Russell Johnson have both said that no one back then knew TV would be what it is today...
Sad for them, considering that, from what those two cast members have said, Jim Backus pretty much went through his money trying to maintain his remaining health at the end of his life.
Seemingly, the only guy who seemingly knew the power of TV during its infancy was Desi Arnaz, who, in 1951, insisted on retaining ownership of I Love Lucy. Of course, CBS thought the show would be a flop, so they gladly agreed.
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Yes, I remember reading that too. Laurel and Hardy were quite bitter about the fact their movies were shown all over television in the 50s and they were unable to collect a single cent in residuals.
There is a movement for writers in the union to be able to collect money for their work on programs back in the 1960s. I won't go into all that here, but there is movement in that direction now.;)
Nancy
I've read of this happening outside of DS. In Ginger Rogers' autobiography, she wrote that at some point her mother (IIRC) had suggested that Rogers' agent fight for provision for "television" in her contract, but no one had any idea at the time what television really was or could be, so the agent didn't press for it and as a consequence, Rogers never got any residuals when her films were screened on television. This seems to be fairly typical from what I've read.
There was also a western star whose name I forget--his agent had fought for the TV clause--after his heyday the actor had washed-up for a time, broke, of course. Was considered a has-been. When they started airing the old westerns on TV, the actor was one of the few who cleaned up big time.
And didn't Peggy Lee sue Disney when they released The Aristocats on video because she didn't get any recompense?
Luciaphil
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The show should have taken much more care in re-casting such an important character. In my opinion, this was the worst re-cast in the history of the show (although she faces strong competition from Peter Turgeon!).
That's just the trouble - by this time, Victoria Winters was NO LONGER an important character. She was peripheral to the entire Adam and Eve story line, and her own story line with Jeff Clark was weak, inconsistent and uninteresting. I guess it's no wonder they put so little effort into finding a replacement when they had put so little effort into using this character at all.
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Actually, no. The bigger "stars" of DS don't even get a small check anymore in the current syndication, never mind the actors who appeared on the show even less. And the actors had to chase after MPI for several years just to get paid for the video release in some nominal way.
Surprising, but I guess not so much if re-runs just werent a consideration in contracts...
A shame.
I know wil wheaton (wes crusher of star trek) went to college on re-run money.
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Most TV actors and actresses who appeared in shows from the late '70s on or the shows went into syndication around that time get residuels, but most before that do not, which is really bad. The producers or the people who own the show usually do get syndication money. I'll use one show I know very well syndication wise, lol - Three's Company. Since it went into local reruns in 1982, all the stars got residuals. Suzanne Somers by now has made nearly half a million dollars, and John Ritter and Joyce DeWitt have made over half a million.
It is a shame that many stars do not get money back even though their acting usually accounted for 99% of the show's watchability with writing in second. In the '50s and '60s no one imagined that TV shows would be rerun, especially soaps and gameshows. Sometimes this has caused entire episodes to be pulled from reruns. Two seasons of The Donna Reed Show were pulled from reruns in the late '60s due to contract troubles with the actors.
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Well it is too bad because the show has been repeated now so many times it isn't fair but athletes have the same problems so many of them in the 60's &70's made so little money they had to find other jobs when their careers were over Compared to today when they are paid in excess! i've heard the football league has a fund
that helps old players!Isn't fair to both!a lot of these actors were probaly paid little too!
as for Betsy Durkin she was a pretty girl it isn't her looks i object too but her acting! did she ever do anything else? i still don't think she is the worst actor on the show there are others coming up that hold that role for me!
jennifer
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I have a friend who is a fairly casual Dark Shadows fan, who, without any prodding at all from me, dislikes Betsy Durkin as VW and reasons that she was hired simply because she could fit into Alexandra Moltke's wardrobe...[grinb]
Hey, wait a minute! He might just be onto something!
[ideab]
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I also felt the change from AM to BD was very jarring when I first saw these episodes. It might have been better to have wrapped up Victoria's story before AM left the show. I have to say that BD does have one really good scene with Jonathan Frid coming up - she's rather subdued and effective - Frid seems to bring out the best in her.
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My two cents I had never seen Betsy Durkin before and I have to say I go with the club. She was awful and annoying. Today when she was talking to Amy all I could think about was "Psycho Vicki". She scared me.
Birdie
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She looked scary, standing in the shadows in the hallway, wearing that black robe. That was a good scene.
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Good bye Betsy Durkin
You're Vicky isn't workin' . . .
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I was looking up 'Alexandra Isles pictures' on Google and this was one of the pictures that came up:
http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/Partypics/NY%20for%20New%20Yorkers/Image070.jpg
She looks different in it imo then in the other pictures I've seen of her from the last few years.
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She looks different in it imo then in the other pictures I've seen of her from the last few years.
But she still looks as though she doesn't understand.
?!? :)
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From these rather pointed and candid statements about AM's replacement, I guess it's safe to say that, along with the great Addison Powell, Ms. Betsy Durkin will most definitely NOT be attending any Dark Shadows festivals in the near future!
Actually, she was at the last Festival in NYC, LOL. I was surprised, to say the least. I'd always agreed with the general opinion of this board, and still do. Seeing and hearing her in person however, changed my perspective a bit. I did not see her episodes until the 80s. I'd always gotten the impression she thought the show was hokey and perhaps beneath her. Watching her view some of her key scenes, I was surprised to see that they made her cry. Satisfactory performances or not, she put her heart into them, if her demeanor at the festival was any indication. I was glad the audience was kind to her. She seemed like a very nice person.
She told a story about a boy who was paralyzed in a car accident. Ms. Durkin's mother asked her to send an autographed picture. The boy got a lot more; she sent scripts and pictures autographed by "the whole cast".
Betsy Durkin was the Irish Spring lass in those commercials. I'm not sure if she was the only one or if there were more.
My daughter and I are watching DS and will get to her episodes this month. I'm going to try to watch them wwith a bit more tolerance. It will be hard though. She was in an unenviaable position.
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Betsy wasn't a very well-received recast for sure (and I too preferred Alexandra Moltke) but there have been worse recasts on other shows. I can make strong cases for that on the case of the two Darrins (from Dick York to Dick Sargent) on Bewitched and the switch from Barbara Bel Geddes to Donna Reed as Miss Ellie on Dallas.