DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '26 I => Current Talk '10 I => Topic started by: jimbo on April 01, 2010, 08:24:39 PM
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Nice blog by this writer.
http://www.independentmail.com/news/2010/apr/01/out-shadows/
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"Lackluster" and "unintentionally funny." Grrr! [angry7]
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Well the bloopers were unitentionally funny and I don't know what he was referring to as lackluster-maybe the ratings early on or the slow start in the storyline-still it's always good to hear how someone remembers DS right or wrong.
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True. But the bloopers were such a small part of the show - especially when one considers how many eps were thrilling TV that went off without a blooper in sight. And no matter how well intentioned remarks like that may be, they continue to paint DS in an unflattering light - one that even has people like Tim Burton joking about flies to an English public who knows little about DS and may now think that's how the show frequently was when flies were seen in maybe 3 out of 1225 eps. ::)
And the lackluster comment would seem to be in regard to the storytelling because he goes on to say how the show was so "poorly done." There are definitely many fans who would disagree that the pre-Barn eps were poorly done. In fact, for a good portion of fandom those eps are some of their favorites. One needn't look any farther than this forum for evidence of that...
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I strongly disagree with that writer. DS was neither "lackluster" nor "cheaply done". The use of some actual location scenes (including out of state!) shot on film (vs. videotape) in the beginning of the run was something unique and, I would expect, certainly not inexpensive! As I understand it, at the end of its run DS was still quite expensive to produce because of all the storylines set in past times. I don't think it was any more "poorly done" than any other typical soap opera of the day. DS was very ambitious in comparison to other daytime shows, requiring a wider variety of sets and props, not to mention special effects (both practical and optical). In addition, the pace of the storytelling was much faster than other soaps. Bearing those things in mind, the bloopers weren't anything more than should be expected from an all-but-live broadcast, and were most certainly not as prevalent as so many people try to make it seem!
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I never stated my opinion of the show. The writer was clearly attempting to show his passion for his beloved DS. Actually I hesitated posting this article because it was just another one of those blog type articles people post on the internet. I am glad it prompted several responses. The writer clearly has passion for DS as do our cousins here. That is what this Forums board is all about; to share our passions and love for the show. We all can't be right and we all can't be wrong. I understand that everyone is speaking about the writer and not about me but I seem to have been a victim of the collateral damage so I certainly will hesitate to post other blogs here.
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I don't think it was any more "poorly done" than any other typical soap opera of the day.
Its production design was actually head and shoulders above most. I've mentioned before how some of General Hospital's sets looked like they were put together with balsa wood - and I'm not exagerrating when I say that the sets for some scenes consisted of one wall, a chair, a table, and a lamp.
DS was very ambitious in comparison to other daytime shows
To say the least - and even in the beginning. But sadly people tend to forget, or aren't even aware of what the other soaps were like...
And jimbo, please don't hesitate to post links to blogs such as this. I've also posted such links in the past - and probably will continue to do so whenever I come across others.
As you say, the forum is a place to share our opinions. If members disagree with what a particular article may say, they're most probably going to voice their opinions, but I suspect that rarely if ever are those posts in any way a reflection on the person who posted the link. In fact, even if people tear an article to bits, they usually still thank the person who posted the link. I'm sorry that I didn't do so. I suppose I was simply taken aback by what I read. I have no doubt that some of these people are trying to share their love of DS. I'm sure Tim Burton was when he talked about the flies. But maybe some of these people truly don't realize how some of the things they write/say can actually come across to non-fans. When they don't qualify that things like the bloopers and such are really such a small part of DS, well, sadly, they present an inaccurate portrait of the show to the people who aren't that familiar with it...
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Thanks MB. Actually I should have been more descriptive as to why I thought it was a nice article. I was truly referring to the writer's reference how DS saved him from his troubled youth angle. On the other hand I should have also paid more attention to his hurtful/inaccurate remarks described in excellent detail here by you and the other cousins. I noticed when I went back to the article the site disabled the comments feature which I think is kind of unfair as we cannot voice our objections there. But there is no disabling comments feature here! No doubt I will continue to post these blogs as everyone should have a voice and a chance to challenge the author.
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I think it's clear that he refers to it as lackluster in the beginning, and then he refers to the change as the supernatural and especially Barnabas were added. I don't think he emphasized the bloopers, but mentioned that they became part of the show, which is true. As he refers to the effect it had on him, I would definitely have to count him as a fan, and that the article could be considered a tribute to the show.
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I agree with Josette that the writer was clearly referring to the show being lackluster in the beginning episodes. And regardless of what some fans may think, to the general public these episodes must have seemed lackluster since the show was in danger of cancellation back then. I think that would be the context in which he refers to the show as being lackluster.
Also, I really think that it's only realistic to admit that there were a lot of unintentionally funny moments on the show, even other than the bloopers. Adam chasing Barnabas and Julia around the lab comes to mind immediately [easter_wink]. This doesn't mean that there weren't other thrilling and brilliant episodes also, but there really were a lot of unintentionally funny scenes on the show. I don't think this should make anyone love the show any less, I think it just adds to the charm.
JMHO. [easter_smiley]
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I was waiting for the bus this a.m. thinking April 2... the day we lost DS ... sigh.
I can still remember that day, and my disbelief as Thayer David's closing narration was heard. I did think it was *very* cool that Thayer was chosen to end the show. I found out a few years back that they wanted Jonathan Frid to read that closing narration, but he refused.
I also remember, as I've wearied you all recalling many times, tuning in the following Monday just in case it was still there and finding the indignity of Password in its place--and up until then, I had actually enjoyed Password! Ugh.
G.
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a nice article to read today,April 2nd, the 39th anniversary of the last episode broadcast on abc.
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Regardless of what the blog writer says I am glad that people share such articles blogs etc. As MB mentioned the posters doesn't always agree with what the blogger or writers has to say. It's good to see DS being remembered. I just wish he wouldn't have used some of those words that were kind of a slap in the face to a show that truly (as campy as and dated as it is) is still better than many soaps on now or since the show left the air! Thanks for sharing!
Side Note: I can only sympathize with my fellow cousins. When I found out DS 1991 was not coming back I was literally depressed for months! Obsessed much?? [ghost_wink]
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There are definitely many fans who would disagree that the pre-Barn eps were poorly done. In fact, for a good portion of fandom those eps are some of their favorites.
Of which I am one. I believe that the earliest episodes were some of the most beautifully executed in the show's history. The combination of the fantastic sets (A daytime soap with these kinds of original sets in the '60s?!) , the exceptional special effects (Josette's Ghost always looked real, whereas later on, you could tell the ghosts were green-screened in), the GREAT location shots (The exterior images of the mansion were actually film and not stills like they were after the color transition. And where else do we see Collinsport cars and people walking on the grounds of Seaview?), and the original story/plot (Truly something out of Gothic literature) was never again replicated in the show's history. It is evident that a lot of time was put into making these episodes nearly perfect. Later on, the focus of the show changed and a lot of the subtleties of the original episodes were lost. Granted later episodes required emphasis be put on make-up and more special-effects, meaning that time for such earlier details was limited and attention had to spread out to more (different) things. In fact, because of the substantial changes that came about over the show's history, it is hard to compare the early episodes with those after the arrival of Barnabas. The only time that the show truly comes close to recapturing the feel of the early days is during the Haunting of Collinwood plot in 1969 and parts of the 1897 flashback. Now if only those episodes were done in black and white...
I love most parts of the series. Most of them are so great, but the later stories differ in tone and the production of said stories was executed differently. This makes them no less good, in my opinion, but simply makes them incomparable to the early episodes of the show.
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I love the early episodes and am currently watching them again! The Phoenix storyline is my second favorite of the entire series! Out of all the supernatural episodes I think that it was the most beautifully executed in writing and delivery!
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Taeylor, the Phoenix plot is one of my personal favorites as well. Laura verses Liz should have gone on forever. Those showdowns were epic.
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The exterior images were said to be discontinued after the series went to color due to time constraints and the budget. But they still inserted exteriors of the cliff/ocean and lightning from time to time. Couldn't they have just as easily inserted the exteriors as they did in the early episodes? They were shot with color film.
I would have loved to see exteriors of Barnabas walking through the woods at night or appraoching Collinwood. HODS did it but it just didn't feel the same.
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The exteriors of the mansions were filmed in color?
I don't see any reason why they wouldn't use them, then. I had always assumed that they were filmed in black and white and that is why they weren't used.
Now, I know exterior shots filmed in color - at this time in TV history - were rather difficult and the film quality could be less than stellar, but if the original shots were color, (in the words of ingenue Victoria Winters) "I don't understand."
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Now, I know exterior shots filmed in color - at this time in TV history - were rather difficult and the film quality could be less than stellar, but if the original shots were color, (in the words of ingenue Victoria Winters) "I don't understand."
I don't know why "exterior shots filmed in color at [that] time in TV history" would be "rather difficult and the film quality ... less than stellar." Bear in mind that the whole point of the discussion of filmed exterior scenes were that they were film, not videotape. The quality need not be any less than other programming shot on film. The expense was likely due to the fact it was on location, not in the studio.
But it is rather curious, in that if they did shoot some of the exterior shots in color they were obviously thinking ahead, so the footage could still be used if the series ever went to color. And then the series did go to color, and they stopped using the footage... Oh well...
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The few times that you do see exterior shots filmed for TV studios during this time period, the color is always washed out and less vibrant than the studio shots. Blues turn to grays while reds turn to pinks. Color was very tricky in the early days of color TV. There were controls on interior shots with lighting and whatnot, but outside, the film crew had to fend for themselves.
Since the Dark Shadows studio shots were so clear, I think one of the reasons color footage was not used after the transition was because the color footage they had wasn't, and it clashed. It was probably washed out. It wouldn't matter when seen in black and white, but in color, it might not have looked very good when compared to the studio shots. This could be a reason that stills were used after the transition, as they were definitely clear and, if they were not originally, could be easily color-corrected. Another thought is night-imagery. It would be nearly impossible to get a good color exterior shot at night without a lot of expensive lighting. Since so much of Dark Shadows takes place at night, this could be another reason they decided to go for stills. The blue tint of the Collinwood night photos could be easily applied and the picture would still be crystal clear. Just some thoughts.
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Cousin Barnabas, are you talking about things that are filmed or things that are videotaped? There is a very big difference between the two. They are entirely separate technologies; the only thing they have in common is that they get their source images from light coming through a lens. Exterior shots on videotape were quite rare in the earlier years of television, I believe, and I think that's what you have in mind when you talk about the washed out colors, etc. DS did not use videotape for any of the exterior shots; those were all on film (in fact, ABC made a big deal out of that fact.)
There is essentially no difference between using film to shoot for a theatrical motion picture or for a television broadcast. There is no reason at all that TV programming shot on film in the mid-1960s would be of any lesser quality than material shot for use in a major motion picture. Unless, of course, very low quality film and/or processing were used, or the cinematographer's skills were not up to par.
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I just remembered that a few early color episodes do use the live exterior shots of Collinwood during the opening scene voice over. This is where Collinwood is framed around tree branches and the camera moves toward the mansion drawing room windows. The Blue Whale exteriors were also used for a while.
One 1795 episode had a large still photo of the forest in the background when Barnabas is searching for Jeremiah & Josette.
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Taeylor, the Phoenix plot is one of my personal favorites as well. Laura verses Liz should have gone on forever. Those showdowns were epic.
you can say that again. legendary.
the laura story is filled with brilliant scenes and showdowns but the liz/laura confrontations are among my favorite scenes ever.
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KMR, yes you are right. I was thinking videotape. Stupid me. But, here is the color FILM footage of Collinwood from Ep 297: Attached.
It looks pretty foggy, washed-out and unclear when compared to the stills, so there must have been a cheap color film used. I guess this explains why it wasn't used beyond these first few color episodes.
And as for Laura and Liz, mscbryk, I think I just will say it again: Laura verses Liz should have gone on forever. Those showdowns were epic. [ghost_cheesy] Too bad we couldn't have a flashback of the early days of Roger's relationship. Liz trying to stop the wedding would be phenomenal to see.
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Wow, CB, I had to look twice just to make sure that really was a color image! [ghost_wacko]
Yeah, it looks like they used a print of the film that faded pretty fast. Either that, or the telecine job wasn't very good. (Or maybe both...)
What a shame that they couldn't keep going with the filmed exterior shots. But I'm sure the expense would have kept rising, and as they went to flashback storylines, they had to spend more money on costumes and re-dressing the sets.
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Yeah, it could pass for B/W if it weren't for that tint of green on the lawn and in the leaves. The house looks pretty much like it does in the b/w episodes.
Exactly. Like I brought up in another thread, priorities changed rapidly on the show, so there was less time and money for such little details. It's unfortunate, especially since the Old House burned to the ground. It would have been nice to see additional footage of that beautiful house while it was still standing.