DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '02 II => Topic started by: Professor1985 on July 22, 2002, 08:47:49 PM
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Should the B&W Kinescopes and Episodes (including lost COLOR episodes of "Dark Shadows" that now exist only in B&W Kinescopes) should be COLORIZED?
Yes :) or No :(
Spencer Karter
Age 16
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Welcome, Professor1985! Great name, by the way. ;)
Regarding your question--I think it would be nice if the kinescopes from the point when the series had already gone to color could be restored. Those episodes were always meant to be seen in color anyway. However, I don't believe that anything could be achieved by colorizing the first season. B&W is their original state, and much of those episodes' effectiveness is due to the shadowy sets and gloomy atmosphere. If anything were done to modify those episodes, I fear that something valuable would be lost from the viewing experience.
ProfStokes
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Hi Spencer! Your first post? Welcome.
To colorize or not to colorize? I vote yes, because I'd like to see them colorized for the sake of novelty. But in the end, I would opt for the original B&W eps to remain so, as far as for my own personal viewing pleasure. I enjoyed the show so much more in it's black and white days. In my opinion, B&W enhances the Gothic mood of the show.
I would very much like to see the kinescopes digitally restored to better enhance the viewing quality of the episodes (be they color or black and white).
Good question,
Dom
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I don't think so. The kinescopes are markedly inferior to the black & white, and it would look ridiculous. Unfortunately, they are just the best we have and keep the episode from being completely lost.
As for the b&w episodes, I still don't think so. I don't care for the look of colorization. I know b&w puts off a lot of people, and not just younger ones. I would hate to see this era of tv lost entirely just to pander to ignorance.
I love the look of the color episodes, don't get me wrong. I just don't think you can capture that in the earlier ones and they have their own special quality that I would like to see being appreciated. Good question though!
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Should the B&W Kinescopes and Episodes (including lost COLOR episodes of "Dark Shadows" that now exist only in B&W Kinescopes) should be COLORIZED?
Yes :) or No :(
Spencer Karter
Age 16
In the case of Dark Shadows, I say no. In fact the black and white episode are more suitable to the subject material, I always felt - plus the sets look more realistic. The only benefit of going to color was seeing the fabulous period costumes in the time travel story lines.
In the case of other TV shows, however, I'm not against the practice. In many (if not most) cases the episodes would have been color had the technology been available; therefore I have no objection to Ted Turner colorizing the first season of Gilligans Island or the Hallmark Channel colorizing the first season of I Dream of Jeannie (I wish they'd do that with the first two seasons of Bewitched, in fact.) It would also be a hoot to see the Dick Van Dyke show in color, among others.
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In the words of Orsen Wells "Keep Ted Turner and his crayons away from my movies!" I think that says it for anything colorized.
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Restoration is a good thing. However, over restoration is not...
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Count me as a "no".
I see the early b&w shows as being unique and special in their own way... and since there are so few of them, relatively speaking, why bother?
You wouldn't colorize the first scene of the Wizard of Oz, now would you? ;)
Joe
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Colorization is a good idea ;D and I want to see the pre-Barnabas episodes Colorized, I want to see Barnabas Collins first appearance Colorized, I want to see Angelique's first appearance Colorized, I want to see some B&W kinescopes Colorized and I like both B&W and COLOR ;D
Spencer Karter
Age 16
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?!? I think those that are originally made in b/w should remain just as they are because when they colorized some of the old movies - it just lost their "essence".
I like the classic way - that's why they're classics. Leave 'em alone. The colors never turn out right, anyways. :)
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Nope. I'm no fan of colorization - it is the changing of art. To me, it's no different that "updating" the Mona Lisa or the Sistine Chapel ceiling. Would we give Leonardo's lady a Katie Couric hairdo? Put a speedo on Adam?
The kineoscope episodes do constitute something different (the color episodes). However, they are so grainy now, I doubt if colorization would help. Possibly, they would look murkier. Perhaps they (whomever "they" are) should look into computerized restoration of them, if that technology exists.
Gerard
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Well, I prefer BnW to color in the first place, so im a solid no vote. In fact, I've been known to turn the color on the set down (jk) but hey, maybe thats a good idea.
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A big NO to colorization for me.
I remember getting mad when the process started years ago to color some of the more classic movies.....They just weren't the same in color.
I'd hate to see DS episodes all in color. They mystery, intrigue, suspense would be taken away. The special effects wouldn't be the same, IMHO.
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I also vote NO to colorization. I've watched "Gilligan's Island" on TBS and other Turner channels, and it just horrifies me. They have blue teeth now! I prefer the B&W versions TV Land shows. These were meant to be in B&W (though some weren't). The quality of the kinescopes are so bad that it would probably be to hard to colorize them, and if they did it wouldn't look as good. I think the B&W gives it a errier look in the early ones. I love the colorization of "I Dream of Jeannie" and "Bewitched" which was done by a Canadian corporation, because they are so indepth and they have white teeth. But I would still perfer to watch them in their original state.
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Put a speedo on Adam?
Are we talking about Robert Rodan in a speedo? <lol> Now that's a scary thought!
Seriously, I am definitely against colorization. While I do agree that it would be great to have the original color videotape versions of those color episodes that exist only in kinescope form, I'd also have to say that I think the kinescopes would look worse colorized than in their original black and white form. The picture quality of the kinescopes isn't all that great to begin with, and I imagine that slapping computer-generated colors on top of them would only make matters worse.
On a related topic, do the original negatives for the kinescopes exist anywhere?
Regards,
John
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The only benefit of going to color was seeing the fabulous period costumes in the time travel story lines.
Also, seeing Craig Slocum's red hair, imagine that in black and white! :o
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I prefer the BW episodes to stay that way.
They seem to carry off the mood so much better.
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Oooh...they shouldn't colorize the B&W episodes. Color would ruin the eerie vibe that the early episodes have. It just wouldn't be the same.
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If wee don't have COLORIZATION, there wouldn't be the first seasons of "Gilligan's Island" and "I Dream Of Jeanie" and the first two seasons of "Bewitched" COLORIZED, we wouldn't see the COLORIZED version of "Miracle on 34th Street" and why not "Dark Shadows"? :'(
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Should the B&W Kinescopes and Episodes (including lost COLOR episodes of "Dark Shadows" that now exist only in B&W Kinescopes) should be COLORIZED?
Yes :) or No :(
Spencer Karter
Age 16
I feel pretty much the same way Bette Davis felt when they colorized Dark Victory: "All the clothes' good taste, gone!"
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On a related topic, do the original negatives for the kinescopes exist anywhere?
I don't believe kinescopes have negatives, just as video tapes do not have negatives. My understanding of the kinescope process:
An actual machine called a "Kinescope" had a crude, early video tape camera pointed at a television monitor. Stations that did not wish to air the live feed from New York (especially those on the West Coast) instead taped the feed off the monitor for a later airing locally. Whether or not actual Kinescope machines were used for archiving DS and other soap episodes is questionable; some stations merely used their own video equipment to tape the feed off their monitors by simply pointing the camera at it. These tapes, of course, are supplementing the "lost" episodes where the original color video has been lost.
I'll be interested in seeing what they do for the DVD sets when the master tapes are not available; will the quality of the crude black and white copy tapes be noticeably better on a DVD?
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Put me in the NAY >:( column! [or a big southern HELL NO!]
Maybe if they took the time to really do the B&W kinescopes of the eps originally in color, to 'restore' them [the technology does exist, but would be very time consuming and expensive] - but don't screw around with the original eps - they have an atmosphere that should not be changed! and capture the time perfectly!
And I can't EVEN imagine 'A Hard Day's Night' colorized!!!
ps, I heard that Leo Mckern, who played the High Priest in 'Help!', also Rumpole [of the Bailey] died today :-[
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If wee don't have COLORIZATION, there wouldn't be the first seasons of "Gilligan's Island" and "I Dream Of Jeanie" and the first two seasons of "Bewitched" COLORIZED, we wouldn't see the COLORIZED version of "Miracle on 34th Street" and why not "Dark Shadows"? :'(
Please.......the colorization of "Miracle on 34th Street" was an act of violence. The perpetrator should have been boiled in a vat of film developing fluid.
Rainey
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Colorize? Hell no.
I have no problem with the color episodes that were filmed that way. Let them stay, but colorize the existing b&w stuff or the kinescopes? No way.
Not a fan of the concept or the process. This stuff was shot a certain way to begin with. Best not to mess with it.
Luciaphil
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I don't believe kinescopes have negatives, just as video tapes do not have negatives. My understanding of the kinescope process:
An actual machine called a "Kinescope" had a crude, early video tape camera pointed at a television monitor.
That is how the process worked, but they used a film camera rather than a video camera. That's why the kinescope episodes have such a "soft" look. (Incidentally, the DS Fest has auctioned off actual kinescope episodes in the past.) I'm wondering if there are negatives, as I believe the kinescopes were shot on 16mm film, and it's possible they used reversal stock, which does not generate a negative of any kind. If that's the case, then I hope D.C., MPI, and WorldVision are taking extra special care of the kinescope episodes!
Regards,
John
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Not a fan of the concept or the process. This stuff was shot a certain way to begin with. Best not to mess with it.
Luciaphil
Luciaphil,
You made an EXCELLENT point! A lot of people tend to think of black and white as a "poor cousin" of color. However, most films that are in black and white were filmed that way because the director had a specific vision for the film and black and white best served that vision. Black and white cinematography is an art form unto itself and, as you said, it's best not to tamper with the results.
Fortunately, the colorization process did not gain lasting popularity with the public, and Ted Turner now seems more interested in film preservation than in colorization.
Regards,
John