DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '09 I => Topic started by: Watching Project on April 28, 2009, 07:36:02 PM
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Robservations #767
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VO: Nancy Barrett
Written by: Violet Welles
Directed by: Lela Swift
Great revelation scene! Nice lighting on David and Jonathan in the Drawing Room. It looks as if some form of editing has come into play around this time. I would say they did the dream sequence first and added it in much like they did with the stock footage in the early days. I like the fact that we are seeing the future. That is one of the things I think the Revival improved upon~~showing 1790 and 1991 and not just "suspending time and space"!
I really like how this dream sequence is written, good job Violet! All together, "NO!" Love the creepy green/red lights!! Trippy indeed! I bet the boys and girls dropping acid that day were having a blast! [ghost_wink]
And so it begins..a silver bullet lost @ Collinwood!
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Barnabas is once again at a loss for answers. He could have at least said he got the information from Magda which would make sense. Why should Quentin or anyone trust one who is so evasive. That being said I noticed that amoung the backstabbing Collins' Barnabas is becoming the trusted go to guy for everything.
I knew without even seeing the credits that Violet wrote this episode. None of the present day characters seemed in character and it added to the strange atmosphere. I see they forgot to restage Josette to Barnabas in the dream.
I agree Taeylor that they should have run the story in the present and the past. Seeing the present day family even in their weird Violet Welles state made me miss them.
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Thing is, until Stokes made that remark much later about [spoiler]1897 and 1969 running "parallel",[/spoiler] I think it was a crucial fact that Barnabas hoped to return to the same day or night in 1969 that he'd left, so that from the perspective of the 1969 characters, he almost hadn't been away at all. I say this because David's condition was acute when Barnabas I Chinged to 1897. They felt they had to act immediately to prevent his death, maybe in a few hours. If time had been running "parallel", David would have been dead by episode #702 or so! So, shifting back and forth between times would have been a problem.
I wonder if [spoiler]David's death dream that Jamison shared[/spoiler] might have happened for David just a day or two after Barnabas left, from David's perspective.
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I remember Stokes explaination of time travel from the first run so that had stuck in my mind as the time travel theory for 1897. obviously it wasn't was 1795 and Barnabas must figure he will go back on the same day he left as did Vickie.
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That would work, Barnabas only expected to return the same day and Stokes' later statement having been right all along, except for the fact that David did not die just a day or two into the 1897 storyline. Maybe he unexpectedly hung on forever, but he was at death's door in episode 700.
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That would work, Barnabas only expected to return the same day and Stokes' later statement having been right all along, except for the fact that David did not die just a day or two into the 1897 storyline. Maybe he unexpectedly hung on forever, but he was at death's door in episode 700.
Not to mention that he never originally intended to time travel at all. He only wanted to reach Quentin through the I Ching to find out what it was he wanted.
Alwaysdavid: Isn't it amusing that Barnabas is universally trusted for no apparent reason. And he thinks he SHOULD be trusted even when he gives whatever character no solid reason to rely on him? It's Barnabas Sue! Beloved and trusted by all, knows all the answers,all the women are in love with him. But can he fix a warp drive with a bobby pin? [ghost_wink]
On to my nattering about the episode.
Nice continuation of the fencing between Barnabas and Quentin from the previous episode. They didn’t make the mistake of having Quentin tamely trust Barnabas without trying to find out everything he can about him. It’s also made clear with Quentin’s needling every step of the way that he ‘s forced to rely on Barnabas, but still doesn’t trust him. Loved Quentin’s unknowing hit about the feeling about there being two Barnabas – one there watching them like something under a microscope, and the other off living his life somewhere else.
I’m uncomfortable with the fact that Jamison doesn’t jump straight to Quentin’s defense the way he usually does when Q is attacked. Matter of fact, he says nothing. And given that previous scene, Jamison trusts Barnabas awfully easily. Creepy dream. I see the point that’s been made about the present day characters being “off”.
Is it me or did they change the Quentin’s ghost makeup? Q seems more natural, more like living Q in this dream, not the stylized makeup I remember for the ghost. Hmm, technically speaking isn’t this the first time the ghost spoke? Some nice bits of business in the Q and David scene. The part where David wonders if they’ll miss him – Quentin looks sad, thinking, possibly of what happened when he died. And throughout the dream, he shows kindness and compassion for the boy. We didn’t see this often with the ghost, he seemed more impassive, downright sociopathic at times. Only time I remember more is when he was watching them disinter the baby’s grave.
Nifty effect with the lighting half of Q’s face green the other natural. Now we find out the three things which have to happen for Q to die originally. (or is it as originally? Anyone’s guess what damage Barnabas has done to the timeline even up to this point.)
Now we have the three things to look for: the lost silver bullet, the death of someone who could help and the one person Quentin truly loved turning against him. Of course we know what the chances are of these chances being mucked up too. Any theories on where Jamison’s dream came from? Who made sure he had the dream to pass on the clues? Only realistic suspects I see are the ghosts (more likely Beth) and Angelique as the most likely suspect. She’s there, knows what will happen, and apparently wants them to succeed for whatever reasons of her own.
Jamison might be more immature than David (probably a function of how upper class kids were raised and sheltered back then) but he’s picked right up on Barnabas knowing just what the dream involves and having answers to all the questions.
Poor Quentin, trapped the drawing room for yet another conversation about the creature and killing it – and having to cover and pretend and not let anyone catch on. He holds it together pretty well, until they start talking about poor mangled bloody Dorcas, then he snaps.
Interesting that Barnabas chooses to explain Jamison’s dream to Judith in terms of modern psychology; that David Collins was created by Jamison to act out what’s troubling him. I’m wondering whether people in 1897 would have taken that seriously, given the bad reputation psychiatrists had at the time.
Oopsie – here’s thing number one as Edward finds the silver bullet that Magda lost.
Jeannie
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As Jeannie mentioned, this was the first time that Quentin's ghost spoke out loud, and he looked less menacing and more natural. Also, he showed compassion towards David and seemed more "human". [milestone]
Another milestone: [milestone] Quentin the Ghost told David in the dream the three things that happened before he died:
1. Discovery of a silver bullet at Collinwood.
2. The one person who could have helped him and kept him alive was murdered.
3. The one person on this earth that he truly loved turned against him.
When Edward found the silver bullet outside on the path, Barnabas realized that this was the first event from the dream! [milestone]
I loved the dream! It was really "groovy". [color] It was strangely spooky. I also enjoyed seeing the 1969 characters again, even though they weren't "themselves" and appeared in a dream. I wondered where Nora and Maggie were. It was neat when Jamison went downstairs and saw the present-day Barnabas in his I-Ching trance. [ghost_cheesy] I think this dream might have been the most enlightening of all - with the three events being spoken. [milestone] I think that the dream was the longest one so far on DS - it lasted for more than half of the show! [milestone]
Excellent episode! Violet Welles strikes again! [clap2]
----- Sally -----
[snow_bigglass] [hippy2]
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I really like how this dream sequence is written, good job Violet! All together, "NO!"
LOL I guess EmeraldRose and I are the only ones so far who like the trippy dream. There's a sadistic streak to its dialogue that makes it even more chilling-- a gutsy move when the subject matter is a child's death. (Quentin to David: "Your short, little life.") It seems it's not only the modern-day family that gets a dream personality makeover-- in one of Rachel's dreams, Judith is seen uncharacteristically laughing her head off. I always wondered, btw, why the birthday party took place at the Old House instead of Collinwood. And with all those blue candles lighting the mansion throughout the centuries, they put pink candles in a 12 year old boy's birthday cake? ... The horror! I also thought Amy (not Nora ;)) should have been at the party too.
What I don't like about this dream is Nancy Barrett's high-pitched puppet voice. Even my dog reacted when the puppet started singing "Happy Birthday."
I see they forgot to restage Josette to Barnabas in the dream.
I don't understand?!
Loved Quentin’s unknowing hit about the feeling about there being two Barnabas – one there watching them like something under a microscope, and the other off living his life somewhere else.
Me too. Would that make it two Barnabi? :P
Hmm, technically speaking isn’t this the first time the ghost spoke?
I think it's the *only* time the ghost spoke. And it didn't happen until David was dead, which I think shows that Quentin was able to communicate normally with the boy once they were on the same plane. Of course, a ghost will later speak to a living person, which will blow this explanation all to hell.
Any theories on where Jamison’s dream came from? Who made sure he had the dream to pass on the clues? Only realistic suspects I see are the ghosts (more likely Beth) and Angelique as the most likely suspect. She’s there, knows what will happen, and apparently wants them to succeed for whatever reasons of her own.
My guess is that Barnabas' astral presence in that century while his body remained in 1969 maintained a connection between the two periods. I don't think Angelique sent the dream since [spoiler]she later shows up to press Barnabas to forget about his mission and return with her to his time. If she was that concerned about his becoming trapped in the past, sending a dream about David's death would not have helped her cause.[/spoiler] Like I said, I'm just guessing.
Poor Quentin, trapped the drawing room for yet another conversation about the creature and killing it – and having to cover and pretend and not let anyone catch on. He holds it together pretty well, until they start talking about poor mangled bloody Dorcas, then he snaps.
Why must he always take it out on the glassware?
Interesting that Barnabas chooses to explain Jamison’s dream to Judith in terms of modern psychology; that David Collins was created by Jamison to act out what’s troubling him. I’m wondering whether people in 1897 would have taken that seriously, given the bad reputation psychiatrists had at the time.
Also interesting, I think, is that in Europe at that same time, Freud was writing about dreams as the windows to our unconscious conflicts.
The dream lasted 10 minutes, btw-- not quite half the ep but darn close to it.
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I also thought Amy (not Nora ;)) should have been at the party too.
Oops! My bad! I meant to say Amy. [signerror]
I see they forgot to restage Josette to Barnabas in the dream.
I don't understand?!
I don't understand, either! [ghost_huh] Oh, I just thought of an explanation... Maybe alwaysdavid was talking about restaging the portrait in the Old House, where the dream took place. [ideag]
My guess is that Barnabas' astral presence in that century while his body remained in 1969 maintained a connection between the two periods.
I agree, Midnite. That sounds like a logical explanation. [ghost_wink]
The dream lasted 10 minutes, btw-- not quite half the ep but darn close to it.
Oops! It lasted a whole segment, which was quite long. I guess it seemed longer than it really was. Still pretty long, though.[ghost_rolleyes]
----- Sally -----
[snow_bigglass] [hippy2]
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There's a sadistic streak to its dialogue that makes it even more chilling-- a gutsy move when the subject matter is a child's death. (Quentin to David: "Your short, little life.")
I always wondered, btw, why the birthday party took place at the Old House instead of Collinwood.
I agree. No kid gloves, I appreciate that.
It was just that the family was living in the Old House after having been driven out of Collinwood, that's all. Now hit yourself on the forehead like you want a V8!
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It was just that the family was living in the Old House after having been driven out of Collinwood, that's all. Now hit yourself on the forehead like you want a V8!
AAAAAAAAAA [6184] (Thanks, I really deserved that!)
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No charge!!
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I meant to say Amy. [signerror]
Oh baby baby have you seen Amy tonight? [wink2]
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LOL, Midnite! [rofl10]
----- Sally -----
[snow_bigglass] [hippy2]
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Yes! if I wouldn't have left out portrait, It might have been more clearer but if one can't say the lines, "I don't understand" then it wouldn't be Dark Shadows would it? Anyway, I tend to notice these things such as unexplained absences of furniture which seem to regularly occur.
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Gotcha. You meant that Barnabas' portrait should have replaced Josette's since it was 1969. No "portrait" and also the word "restage" confused me. Thanks! [smlyb]
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I was right! [ideag]
----- Sally -----
[snow_bigglass] [hippy2]
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[milestone]
(Just teasing, of course)
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LOL, dom! [rofl10] [laughing1]
----- Sally -----
[snow_bigglass] [hippy2]
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What I don't like about this dream is Nancy Barrett's high-pitched puppet voice. Even my dog reacted when the puppet started singing "Happy Birthday."
I was amazed at how solidly she hit the high note in "Happy Birthday".
Nice acting by David Selby in the dream; Quentin was much more isolated and apart emotionally than he was in 1897.
I did my best to get a good look at Roger's face, because Edward's face seems as though all the features are squashed together in the middle of the face. It didn't seem that way with Roger. Louis Edmonds's nose seemed much longer, thinner, and haughtier on Roger than it does on Edward.
As for where the dream came from, I think it was the I Ching helping Barnabas out, in the same way that I believe the I Ching helped him previously by giving Magda the vision in the crystal ball that caused her to send Sandor to the mausoleum at the beginning of Barnabas's visit to 1897. (I think I've mentioned before that I think the I Ching had a soft spot for Barnabas, and a good thing, too; he would never have made it through 1897 on his own.) The dream clearly was not a representation of an actual event in 1969, because, as others have noted, the people in the dream (including Quentin's ghost) weren't really like the 1969 characters. Also, as alwaysdavid noted, Josette's portrait was in the wrong place. I think, however, that I saw in the dream drawing room a piece of furniture that (significantly, as it turns out - was the I Ching providing a helpful reminder?) is not in the Old House drawing room in 1897.
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The I Ching helping Barnabas is an interesting concept. Too bad the writers hadn't thought of it and had a scene at the beginning with Pr Stokes saying something to that effect. It would make much more sense out of the Welles dreams.
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If we had a sense of a kindly helpful presence from the I Ching hovering over Barnabas, it might interfere with that wonderful sense of gloom in 1897...
[bonny_hand] [bonny_hand] [bonny_hand]
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This has to be one of the best episodes of Dark Shadows ever. The dream is so surreal, so creepy and almost kafka-esque in its cutting tone towards poor David. Nancy Barret does insanity so well. And I think this (as opposed to later attempts to use the same trick in 1970/1840) framing device for 1897 of the three clues is just perfect in setting the tone for the grand drama of Quentin's life while it's still interesting. This should have been in that set of the 'fan favorites...' because even if you don't know what's going on, it is so well written as to be fascinating.
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The concept of I-Ching as deus ex machina is a very interesting idea. The dream sequence itself is one of the best DS moments ever. It captures the fluid, almost surreal tone of an an actual dream. And Nancy Barrett actually makes that hand puppet and "Happy Birthday" seem sinister.
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Personally, I think that Jamison's experiences with his mother awakened a dormant clairvoyance inside him, and his out-of-control psychic abilities created a connection with David, and then produced the dream. The I-ching is not a concious being and certainly doesn't care about people. But Jamison went through a traumatic supernatural experience that may have changed him.
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Personally, I think that Jamison's experiences with his mother awakened a dormant clairvoyance inside him, and his out-of-control psychic abilities created a connection with David, and then produced the dream. The I-ching is not a concious being and certainly doesn't care about people. But Jamison went through a traumatic supernatural experience that may have changed him.
Factor in the fact that Jamison and David have the same mother...!
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Factor in the fact that Jamison and David have the same mother...!
Yes, exactly! Both are children of the phoenix, and Jamison had just seen his mother burn like David once did.