DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '09 I => Topic started by: buzz on January 29, 2009, 09:17:23 PM
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I've always found the off screen killing of Burke very odd for a number of reasons. Apparently the writers didn't know what to do with Burke, but instead of having a final dramatic confrontation with Barnabas, he was killed in a plane crash. Story wise I think this was poor, since it seemed like a very convenient way to (perhaps they thought temporarily?) get rid of Burke. If I'm correct a new writer replaced Malcom Marmorstein around this period, Joe Caldwell, and that may have affected the change. Perhaps another reason was because Dr. Woodard was recently killed off, and they thought it would have been repetitive if Burke was done in the same way. Or, he was too well liked by the audience. Still, I think it would have been better to either keep Burke alive and remain a rival and potential trhreat to Barnabas or kill him off in a dramatic way.
The period following Dr. Woodard's death seemed particularly morbid, aside from the aging of Barnabas the writers seemed to be biding their time for the 1795 storyline.
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If you can suggest another title, I'll change it for you, but in the future please don't include spoilers in topic titles.
Also for the benefit of visitors that haven't seen the entire series, there's now a spoiler icon in the main topic.
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If you can suggest another title, I'll change it...
'Burke Devlin...WTF?'
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Barnabas was only supposed to be on for 13 weeks, until Frid's performance sent the ratings skyrocketing.
So, Barnabas stays, stories get rewritten.
During the languish period, the writers concocted the 1795 story & Vicky's next romance with blonde boy.
Plus, A George stated publicly years later that he didn't like doing Dark Shadows, so he wanted out.
Between George's feelings, and the upcoming storyline, Burke's goose was cooked!
David
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Burke was offed before 1795 though, and A George continued on for a long time after that as Jeremiah...
In all these years, with all these con appearances and all the fan scrutiny of every detail of DS, wouldn't you think information on why these choices were made would be out by now?
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I thought that Burke's demise was temporary at first as they didn't seem to know what to do with him anymore and took a break from the character. When 1795 started and AG appeared as Jeremiah, it seemed that Burke was to return after 1795 ended, but AG leaving changed that.
When Jeremiah told Vicky he thought she seemed familiar to him (after she told him he looked familiar to her) I had an odd idea that Burke was also sent to 1795 and took over Jeremiah but looking back now, that was too far fetched.
Burke grounded DS into being more realistic like I thought. He was the kind of hero the show needed to have and once he was gone, we viewers had no hero to look to anymore and the show seemed to just meander for a month. Barnabas was still the bad guy and he got even more evil and there was no balance on the show.
You could tell they were stretching the story as much as they could until 1795 began.
Given all the recasting they had recently done (Dr. Woodard, the caretaker, Sheriff Patterson), I am surprised they didn't recast Jeremiah and go along with the original Jeremiah/Josette storyline.
Burke in the Adam/Cassandra/Nicholas storyline would have been interesting.
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Midnite, I apologize for the error. I forget that there are some who may not have seen these episodes. You can certainly change the topic line. How about "Whatever Happened to Burke Devlin?"
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I dont mean to sound rude or anything, but I hope there isnt going to several apology/acceptance postings where the topic itself is forgotten.
Its a pet peeve of mine and it has happened on so many message boards, its frustrating.
Not that I mean people should respond to the topic simply because I posted something.
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Joeytrom,
No more apologies, I promise! I agree with many of your comments re: Burke. He was a good anchor for the show, although beginning with the 1795 storyline Barnabas became more sympathetic and later on became the hero of the series, along with Julia.
There were many instances when it was apparent that the writers were stalling for time and of course, the boss, Dan Curtis, may have turned down some interesting storylines that the writers thought up.
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Plus, A George stated publicly years later that he didn't like doing Dark Shadows, so he wanted out.
Interesting - I've never heard that. However, it's no secret that George had only signed a six month contract. He wanted to jump-start his career, which had been languishing since the cancellation of his primetime series Checkmate. And in light of that, I've always found it ironic that what his run on DS actually accomplished was not jump-starting a new primetime or film phase of his career, but a long run as a popular leading man in other soaps.
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He wanted to jump-start his career, which had been languishing since the cancellation of his primetime series Checkmate.
BTW, Checkmate is out on DVD. I got the first season on Netflix and saw the first episode, although Anthony George was hardly in the story. From watching the first episode it doesn't look like its going to be a very good series. A better 1960's crime show was Arrest and Trial, featuring Ben Gazarra and Chuck Conners.
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Whatever happened to Burke?
He died. Any questions?
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Anthony George does have some good episodes in Checkmate. The stories vary from some that are more engaging to others that are pretty much cookie-cutter examples of early Sixties action shows.
One of the better episodes has Anthony George attempting to safeguard a very highly strung alcoholic dowager played by Joan Fontaine. The shots of Joan in party frock staggering drunkenly around a party on this luxury cruise are hysterical.
I also liked the shows with Charles Laughton as a missionary and Joseph Cotten as a survivor of the French resistance. There was a good one with, I think, Ricardo Montalban as an old buddy of the George character's.
Having read a good deal of official and unofficial Dark Shadows history over the years, I have a short answer to why Burke was written out--Dan Curtis made up his mind that Burke had to go, and he went! Anthony George probably asked for a raise, a surefire way to get Dan to give you the boot back in those "good old days."
The writers would protest that storylines and audience expectations were being disrupted, and Dan would narrow his eyes, angle his golf club, and ask "are you writing the show, or not? I can get other people to write the show if you don't want to do it."
G.
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Maybe it's possible that there were plans for Burke to pop up again in a later storyline, considering how he, shall we say, departed the show and it was never absolutely stated that he, well, you know. But once Vicki had, well, you know, there was no longer a need for him to say "surprise!" down the road.
Gerard
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I gotta tell you, David, as someone who loves reading and hearing about production from the backstage view, this is the first I am hearing that Anthony George didn't like doing DS. Where did you read that?
Nancy
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Nancy, I have an interview with Anthony George in the July/August 1995 issue of The TV Collector in which he stated that he hating doing Dark Shadows. Another bone of contention with George was that he wanted to direct and Dan would not have that. I moved last year and the issue is still packed away somewhere.
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I hated him doing Dark Shadows too.
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Oh Janet, you're so Wicked!
Gerard
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Wow. This is news to me. I think I am the only person on this board who liked Anthony George on the show. [snow_bigglass] Thank you for the reference.
nancy
Nancy, I have an interview with Anthony George in the July/August 1995 issue of The TV Collector in which he stated that he hating doing Dark Shadows. Another bone of contention with George was that he wanted to direct and Dan would not have that.
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Nancy, I liked Anthony George on DS too, but I liked him better on Search for Tomorrow. I started digging around in a couple of boxes and found the issue. If you want a copy of the interview, please email me.
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I also enjoyed Tony George's work on DS, particularly some of his scenes with Frid--the two played off one another really well, I thought.
I have to confess, however, that once I got to see Mitchell Ryan in the part (this was much later on--I first saw Tony's episodes in the 1976 syndication of the '67 stories), I felt he "inhabited" the role much more believably, for whatever reason.
As I am sure I have mentioned on here before, Tony George became friends during his DS period with both Grayson and Sam Hall. I don't know whether he and Grayson ever got a scene together during her time on OLTL in '82-'83. I had never known that Tony George "hated" doing DS. I wonder whether he gave any reasons in that article.
Apparently about a year or two after the show went off the air, Joan Bennett was on a talk show somewhere and also said she had not enjoyed working on the show. The only reference I know of to this particular interview is on the Grayson Hall interview tape from March '73 where the girls are discussing various people who had worked on the show with GH. GH response is characteristic: "You gotta remember--she's an old lady!" and she added that she thought that Joan had enjoyed a lot about being on the series.
G,.
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Thank you. I can't import any more paper into my house at the present time. I appreciate the offer.:)
I started digging around in a couple of boxes and found the issue. If you want a copy of the interview, please email me.
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I also enjoyed Tony George's work on DS, particularly some of his scenes with Frid--the two played off one another really well, I thought.
I know Frid enjoyed working with AG. They did have great chemistry.
I have to confess, however, that once I got to see Mitchell Ryan in the part (this was much later on--I first saw Tony's episodes in the 1976 syndication of the '67 stories), I felt he "inhabited" the role much more believably, for whatever reason.
It certainly was a completely different take on the character. I didn't dislike Mitchell Ryan's portrayal.
Apparently about a year or two after the show went off the air, Joan Bennett was on a talk show somewhere and also said she had not enjoyed working on the show. The only reference I know of to this particular interview is on the Grayson Hall interview tape from March '73 where the girls are discussing various people who had worked on the show with GH. GH response is characteristic: "You gotta remember--she's an old lady!" and she added that she thought that Joan had enjoyed a lot about being on the series.
I lean towards believing it was not so much the show itself the disgruntled performers disliked as much as it was the set. By chance, I wound up taking a class taught by DS director Peter Miner and he told me how horrible it was working on the DS production because the demands were unrealistic (demands by the Executive Producer), the pace was crazy and things were chaotic to the point it was difficult to work. He made a point of saying that Frid and the other actors were a pretty good bunch to work with and it was the production end of the show that was more or less a miserable experience. I don't know how that environment and annoyed production personnel could not have trickled down to the actors who had to sense or overhear the back and forth that went on in the production end. I know Ramse Mosteller (sp?) more than once walked off the set because she was frustrated with DC. Henry Kaplan would scream at the actors sometimes. Those stories have been told at the festival.
Some actors can tune out chaos and for others it makes work all that much harder and unpleasant.
nancy
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I also enjoyed Tony George's work on DS
I actually enjoyed his work as well, but as Jeremiah. I think his more gentle approach worked better than if Mitch Ryan had done the part, making the character of Jeremiah more sympathetic and what happened between him and Barnabas more tragic.
Gerard
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I would say that the decision to team Vickie up with the Peter Bradford character and his apparent(but puzzling) popularity with some of the veiwing audience led to Burke's not returning. I remember reading somewhere that they had planned to bring him at a later time.
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Having read a good deal of official and unofficial Dark Shadows history over the years, I have a short answer to why Burke was written out--Dan Curtis made up his mind that Burke had to go, and he went! Anthony George probably asked for a raise, a surefire way to get Dan to give you the boot back in those "good old days."
The writers would protest that storylines and audience expectations were being disrupted, and Dan would narrow his eyes, angle his golf club, and ask "are you writing the show, or not? I can get other people to write the show if you don't want to do it."
Gothick,
Thanks for the info. It makes sense as DC was the boss and he had final say, for better or worse. Thanks also for the Checkmate info, I'll be watching a few more.
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I actually enjoyed his work as well, but as Jeremiah. I think his more gentle approach worked better than if Mitch Ryan had done the part, making the character of Jeremiah more sympathetic and what happened between him and Barnabas more tragic.
I really liked Mitch Ryan as Burke, but after watching Anthony George again I've had second thoughts about his performance. His approach was different but he was likable. I certainly would have prefered a return of Burke than the appearance of Peter Bradford.
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I lean towards believing it was not so much the show itself the disgruntled performers disliked as much as it was the set. By chance, I wound up taking a class taught by DS director Peter Miner and he told me how horrible it was working on the DS production because the demands were unrealistic (demands by the Executive Producer), the pace was crazy and things were chaotic to the point it was difficult to work. He made a point of saying that Frid and the other actors were a pretty good bunch to work with and it was the production end of the show that was more or less a miserable experience.
Nancy,
I believe its been mentioned by a number of actors, including Frid, that the production and special effects got in the way of the actors learning their lines. The special effects took precedence over the story and acting, and that, IMO, was a mistake. A balance needed to be maintained, and that didn't always happen.
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It definately would have been interesting to see what Mitch Ryan would have done with Jeremiah. I just wish Mitch stayed long enough to do the story where he had Barnabas investigated. I think that would have taken on a whole new level. I also think that Barn would have kilt Mitch's Burke. I think Mitch's Burke would have found the truth out about Barnabas. Barnabas would have kilt him and had Willie bury him somewhere.
You know, when Barnabas had the costume party, I think Mitch's Burke would have slugged him and taken Vicky home to Collinwood. And Carolyn too. And maybe Liz. Then he would have taken off his costume, brought the gear down to The Old House and shoved them at Barnabas, "Here, jerk! Take your stupid 1700's clothes and drop dead!" That's what I think anyway.
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Nope, you aren't the only one, Nancy-I liked him also. Though I preferred the first Burke, I liked Anthony George as well, and followed him when he went to One Life To Live.
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Anthony George, Grayson Hall, & Nancy Barrett were all on One Life to Live at the same time and they shared a scene where they ran into each other and they thought they recognized each other from somewhere.
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that's inspired...!
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I'd love to see that -
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also Sam Hall and Gordon Russell were writing for One Life to Live at the time.
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To Nancy--thanks for sharing that fascinating anecdote about Peter Miner. I just received the 4th set of the 1966/67 DVDs in the post recently and last night had a chance to view Bob Costello's interview, and he mentioned Peter Miner as one of the people he personally recruited in the original production unit. Sy Tomashoff and Bob Cobert were also mentioned. (It was interesting to learn that Costello was the one who recruited Cobert originally.) Also Ramse Mostoller. I recall Ramse mentioning in a letter to a fan that was published in a one-off collection some years ago that apart from Dan Curtis, she did enjoy working on DS. It was implied that DC's temper and ego made things difficult for her personally--presumably why she eventually left, as did Costello, Ron Sproat, and some others over the years.
I well remember Joan Bennett in her autobiography describing how difficult it sometimes was to get through a scene because of the chaos that surrounded them on the set. Nevertheless, I do think that she had some good times during her years on DS.
Best, Steve
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I didn't really care for Burke, but it does seem a shame that they didn't have Barnabas kill him, just for the drama of it. A nasty death would have been more interesting than an uncertain off screen death. For what it's worth I liked Jeremiah a lot better than Burke. I think part of what I dislike about Burke was how unsuited he seemed for Vicki. I do suspect that Barnabas and Jeremiah had a think going. Look at how Jeremiah puts his hand on Barnabas's thigh when he's choking early in the 1795 sl.
Maybe the writers decided not to have Barnabas kill him if they were thinking on converting Brnabas into a conflicted hero. If I had my way about it Barnabas would have framed Burke for kidnapping Maggie and the police would've killed him when he tried to escape. Writes Burke out, keeps Willie in the story and keeps Barnabas from actively killing him and making him a more devious character.
For what it's worth I like Peter/Jeff and thought he had a really great relationship with Vicki.
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Whatever happened to Burke?
He died. Any questions?
Three cures just for that? I thought I was being funny, but apparently not... I guess I'm probably lookin' at another 3-5 cures for this post too. Oh well...
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In the Bennett Playbill, Joan Bennett stated that she liked her co-stars except for Roger Davis. She said "He thinks he is Henry Fonda, and he is not."
It seemed Tony Peterson was orignally meant to replace Burke, but it never worked out that way.
I well remember Joan Bennett in her autobiography describing how difficult it sometimes was to get through a scene because of the chaos that surrounded them on the set. Nevertheless, I do think that she had some good times during her years on DS.
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Garth baby, I for one got a good giggle out of what you wrote about dear Burke and his fate.
Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes! (or, in those case, those nasty "cures")
cheers, G.
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Thanks, G-- glad I was amusing someone other than myself.
Regarding Roger Davis, I swear to god he copped feels off of more female actors than all of the others people on the show combined. I always imagined that the ladies dreaded doing scenes with him because would shake the crap out of them and probably grab something in the process that he wasn't supposed to. [snow_shocked]
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Peter/Jeff and Vicki always did seem to go at it like junkyard dogs, but Vicki seemed into it to me. His passionate love scenes make him seem pretty sexy to me, but of course it's dead wrong if he was sexually harassing anybody. I can disaprove of an actor's behavior and still enjoy his performance.
I did think that Ned was way too touchy feely with Sabrina, but then I didn't like Ned that much, in comparison to Peter/Jeff.
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vicki and jeff "went at it" alright...
but as "passionate" as it was because of the way the dialogue for them was written it always seemed like they were bickering.that's probably not how it was intended but it's how it came across to me.
this was compounded by the difference in acting styles between alexandra and roger...her placidness contrasted to his belligerence...that gave their scenes together an odd dissonance.
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I always thought that Vicki seemed "into it" with both of her fiancees, but that's just me.
I never bought into the entire Vicki and Peter/Jeff affair. I thought that Vicki and Burke were much more believable, especially with Anthony George portraying Burke.
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It's nice to see you posting, fanforever. ;)
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I always wondered if perhaps Barnabas caused the plane to crash....what?? Stranger things have happend.....In fact when I viewed the scene where he found out, I was convinced he caused the plane crash.
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i'm currently watching the 1966 episodes and i had forgotten what a steamroller mitch ryan was as burke...his devlin owned this show.
by the time of the anthony george replacement the character,like everyone else,had become a supporting player in the barnabas saga.i can't see ryan playing second banana.
that barnabas somehow "caused" burke's plane crash is one of the series' great misconceptions.he didn't.
sarah warned david and carolyn that someone was going to die.they heard it in the music.no one would cause it and nothing could stop it.then vicki heard the wailing of the widow's...goosebumps!
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Well this is my first time viewing a portion of these episodes. I will see.....;)
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I think I am the only person on this board who liked Anthony George on the show.
I didn't dislike Anthony George, I thought he did a great job as Jeremiah. And as both Jeremiah and Burke he had some great scenes with Jonathan Frid. However, Mitch Ryan will always hold a special
place for me as the ultimate Burke Devlin.
With George gone, they could have recasted Burke again, but chose not to. Probably because they
hooked Vicki up with another love interest. Once Vicki hooks up with [spoiler]Peter/Jeff,[/spoiler] Burke is never mentioned again, almost like he never even existed, which I feel is a disservice to the character since
he played such an important part at the beginning of the show.
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I didn't dislike Anthony George, I thought he did a great job as Jeremiah. And as both Jeremiah and Burke he had some great scenes with Jonathan Frid. However, Mitch Ryan will always hold a special
place for me as the ultimate Burke Devlin.
With George gone, they could have recasted Burke again, but chose not to. Probably because they
hooked Vicki up with another love interest. Once Vicki hooks up with [spoiler]Peter/Jeff,[/spoiler] Burke is never mentioned again, almost like he never even existed, which I feel is a disservice to the character since
he played such an important part at the beginning of the show.
Ummm... Shouldn't someone be complaining that there's a massive spoiler in this post? I seem to remember certain people being very ... picky ... about this in the past.
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Actually, the entire topic has a spoiler warning because of the spoiler icon: (http://www.dsboards.com/SMF/Themes/default/images/post/spoil.gif)
Using the spoiler tags within posts is appreciated, but it's not as necessary when people have already been warned before they even open the topic. [ghost_smiley]
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I too enjoyed Anthony George in the show. In fact, Jeremiah is one of my favorite characters.
I do agree with others who have said that Burke was best played by Mitch Ryan, this after having seen his portrayal of Burke in the pre-Barnabas episodes. However, not having his death shown on screen makes for some interesting speculation as to whether or not he truly died.
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I always thought that Vicki seemed "into it" with both of her fiancees, but that's just me.
I never bought into the entire Vicki and Peter/Jeff affair. I thought that Vicki and Burke were much more believable, especially with Anthony George portraying Burke.
I thought Alexandra and Anthony George clicked as well, but only as Vicki and Jeremiah. I didn't care much for the Vicki/AG'S Burke Devlin pairing.
I am one of the few who actually does like the Peter/Jeff/Vicki pairing. Though I have to say that Jeff Clark could certainly be a handful at times.
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I really love Vicky/Peter-Jeff, I didn't realise they were so unpopular. I thought they had great chemistry and were believable as being in love. They were certainly enthusiastic in their make out scenes.
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Bradford was a great character up until everyone here bombarded me with how RD is so obviously crap! It's hard to see past that overwhelming wall of opinion now... I like Tate too. I mean, he works as an unlikeable character. I do think that somehow PB lost his character as Clark. As for Ned, I think Barnabas's real reason for the I Ching was to escape Ned....
[candle_in_skull_2] [female_skull] [female_skull]
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As for Ned, I think Barnabas's real reason for the I Ching was to escape Ned....
and Sabrina...
Patti