DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '08 II => Topic started by: michael c on November 14, 2008, 04:59:02 AM
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i would have posted this in the 'watching project' but since we're not supposed to mention the original show in any way i'll start a new topic...
in the original series when vicki is transported back to the year 1795 almost everyone she meets there resembles someone she knows in the present(a phenomenon that causes her no end of grief)with two notable exceptions...angelique bouchard and peter bradford.
thus,when she returns to 1968 and encounters them both(as cassandra and jeff clark)she equates them with people she knew in the past...they had no "present time" counterparts until after she got back.
but in the 1991 series peter bardford looks like joe haskell...someone vicki already knew.
so what does that mean in terms of the peter/vicki love across time storyline?was joe peter's present time counterpart in this world?if the series had continued into season two wouldn't vicki have thought that jeff clark looked like joe haskell and not peter bradford?it's implied at vicki's hanging that that was what was supposed to have happened had the program continued...the whole "i'll find you" stuff.since joe was killed in this version was the actor supposed to have come back as jeff clark?wouldn't that have been confusing?
what does this mean?
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was the actor supposed to have come back as jeff clark?wouldn't that have been confusing?
what does this mean?
MTW was to play a Chris Jennings type character in the second season (the show was going to completely skip the whole Adam/Eve period and was planning to go right to the Werewolf/Quentin period) and the character would have had some connection to Peter. As for any confusion, there wouldn't have been much because MTW's new character would have been Joe's twin brother come to investigate Joe's death.
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HOT! :) I didn't know that little tibit! I am for one glad they would have skipped the whole Adam and Eve debacle! :) Once, I HATE YOU NBC! [hall2_rolleyes]
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i find it quite astonishing that they were already planning to get into the quentin storyline in season two(after a six episode season one).
talk about a rush job.
this doesn't really leave the series with alot of places to go.the storylines that came after quentin/1897...leviathan,parallel-time,1840...are widely considered to be uneven at best and it's doubtful that curtis would have persued them had the 91 series progressed.so why rush through the best parts of the story?
i think dan curtis was really rushing through his "greatest hits" at the expense of crafting a well thought out series.i can only assume he did this to entertain himself and please fans of the original who expected to see all of this stuff up front....the elusive millions of new viewers needed for a show to succeed doesn't know who any of these characters are.
i think it would have been a much better show if plotted more judiciously.
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I agree with you about Dan Curtis going after the "Greatest Hits" thing. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, because for example a new Leviathan storyline might have worked much better. But ultimately, why would you make Lois and Clark if you were going to just re-do the stories from the George Reeves show Superman? Or Smallville if you were just going to do a copy of Lois and Clark with different actors? The '91 series needed to be itself, rather than a streamlined version of the original. Personally, I found much more interesting the things that were original--like Barnabas' entirely new reaction to Julia's treatment ("silver in my veins" and his glee at gaining a reflection).
[spoiler]Or the whole notion of Julia Hoffman possessed by Angelique![/spoiler]
Mind you, entwining Victoria Winters into the Quentin storyline would offer neat and original possibilities!
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At the time, I never saw an interest Peter had in Vicky, but this is old memories here. I know when he said he loved her I was surprised as there didnt seem to be any hint of it before.
I heard Adrian Paul was to play Quentin.
At least on the original, there was a year between 1795 & 1897. I think it was way too quick for yet another time travel storyline. New viewers to DS would be confused with actors playing third characters so soon.
That second season probably would have had the werewolf/Quentin's ghost/1897 all happening eventually at the same time.
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It seemed as if they also planned to have a composite version of the Laura and Cassandra storylines with Lysette Anthony's return. Now, since in 1991, Maggie is a powerful psychic (and something of a white witch) who is Roger's lover, that sets the stage for a big Magickal battle between Mags and LaurCassangelique. *That* could have been fun since Ely Pouget showed some feisty energy in her scenes in the episodes in which she had more to do than just stand around and look pretty.
If the Prof. Stokes character came on the scene with Laura's return, it would have been interesting to see who they would have cast in that role.
G.
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Actually, they was talk of not doing an 1897 flashback but instead introducing Quentin as a modern day character - and interestingly, he would have had ties to both Barnabas and Angelique. They planned to feature Quentin very heavily, as well as develop Roger's background, his romance with Maggie, and delve into Laura, making her an integral part of the show (all of which might have pleased those who felt that the first season was too dominated by Barnabas). And with MTW's character having a connection to Quentin, that would have brought Vicki into the Quentin storyline as well, which would have been a departure from the original show as Vicki was barely around before she was written out on the original. And let's not forget that they planned to explore Vicki's true connection to Elizabeth.
All in all it sounds like it would have been fascinating. But alas...
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You wrote the same thing I was gonna add MB. I personally think Season Two could have been OFF THE CHARTS phenomenal!! But like you said alas....
For those who feel the show was rushed you have to remember they were thinking they would get a 22 episode pick up. They had to scramble to cut that to 12 episodes which I am sure was hard. There is a fascinating script treatment for episode ten in SHADOWS IN THE 90's by Kathleen Resch. It includes Bathia Mapes who I feel would probably have been played by Ely Pouget! I sounded like a great episode. So you can thank NBC for causing the rush. I for one am glad we at least had the [spoiler]cliffhanger on the final episode resolved with VICTORIA's visit to the past. I would have beat my head into the ground if I didn't know her fate! The cliffhanger is annoying enough and like I said would it have driven me insane if they had left her in the past and ended![/spoiler]
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Sorry for the double post. Gothick, I have to agree that a Laura VS Maggie showdown would have been FUN FUN!! To add to my last post, Bathia Mapes in this version was a beautiful good witch! REPEAT AFTER ME, NBC SUCKS!
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How would the Barnabas Storyline been resolved though? The cliffhanger ending ISTR suggests [spoiler]that Vicki has put two and two together and realizes that 1990 Barn is the same man as 1790 Barn.[/spoiler]
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Nelson in SHADOWS IN THE 90's the writers kind of understood they had gotten themselves into a predicament. There were ideas tossed around such as having Victoria retain her memories and get in on the cure to help Barnabas and fight Angelique. Matt Hall said that the staff was divided on falling back on the whole Julia hypnotizing Victoria, however Matt felt that it worked for a 60's audience but would not for a 90's audience! They felt they had gotten themselves in a plot quagmire. However, he also realized that if they got Victoria in on the cure and Barney was finally cured then what would they do with him? I agree. It says that the writers went back in forth on how to work it out and never really came to an agreement. As we know the show was cancelled they didn't need to. It's really up in the air and would be neat to speculate on what we think would have been a good direction for them to go in. I didn't quote SIT 90's word for word so I thought it would be okay to add this to the post!
Au revoir!
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The most obvious plot device that comes to my mind is for Angelique/Laura to possess Vicky, and when the possession finally comes to an end, her memory is damaged. Hmmmm...that would involve maybe the past memories of Josette maybe coming out and fighting Angelique. Has possibilities...
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I'm envisioning a dramatic scene in which Barnabas[spoiler]knowing that Vicky knows what he is[/spoiler]is about to attack Vicky, but Vicky manages to talk him out of it by saying that[spoiler]although she knows what he is, she has no intention of bringing harm to him because[/spoiler]he is the only force powerful enough to fight Angelique (of whose presence in the 20th century Vicky would by then be aware) and that Vicky wants to help Barnabas in the fight, but would be better able to do so as an independent human being. Some complexity might be added if Vicky's main problem with Angelique were that Angelique was threatening Peter Bradford for some reason.
If Angelique was ever finally disposed of, then by that time Vicky might have decided that Barnabas wasn't so bad even if he was a vampire.
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I suppose it's moot. I can forgive the OS Barnabas because the writer's were much more up against a wall to change motivations and character when Barn became so popular. But I remain annoyed that Dan made Barnabas kill Daphne and the white trash couple and then disingenuously claim how much he hated what he was. Evil as OS Barnabas was in the beginning, [spoiler]The only person who died (pre-1795) was Dr. Woodard.[/spoiler]
But this has nothing to do with Vicki and Peter in 1991! Apologies all! [hall2_tongue]
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Evil as OS Barnabas was in the beginning, [spoiler]The only person who died (pre-1795) was Dr. Woodard.[/spoiler]But this has nothing to do with Vicki and Peter in 1991!
I agree it has nothing to do with Vicky and Peter in 1991, but let us not forget[spoiler]Jason McGuire![/spoiler]
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Yeah Nelson he may have only killed [spoiler]WOODARD, but look at how he tortured Maggie. [/spoiler] Mental abuse can be worse than death in some cases. I don't have much sympathy for OS Barney [spoiler]pre 1795! [/spoiler] JMO. Sorry to get off topic!
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I agree with Taeylor. The OS Barnabas may have murdered fewer people, but I wouldn't say he was less violent. There were reports in the local paper of [spoiler]at least two other young women that he attacked in addition to Maggie, and at one point he intended to kill David until Sarah stopped him.[/spoiler]
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[spoiler]he intended to kill David until Sarah stopped him.[/spoiler]
And of course Julia too.
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mysterious' outline for season two does sound quite intriguing...
i've never been a big quentin fan but would loved to have seen the laura character on the front burner.
the breadth of this story needs breathing room.that's why i found season one to be so rushed.in the original series the 1795 plot was a rich tapestry woven with colorful supporting characters and interesting subplots.i simply don't think it could have been told effectively in just six episodes.
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I am happy I got the experience even though I would have preferred ten episodes in 1790 and a full twenty season and a series that had lasted five or so years. I didn't want much NBC you assface! [hall2_cry]
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I had heard that Vicki was supposed to have repressed memories of her trip to the past.
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Taken from the Dark Shadows Resurrected book:
Post Script
After her return from 1790, Victoria was unable to clearly recall her experiences from the eighteenth century. She did, however, retain fragmented which alternately fascinated, puzzled, and haunted her. She resumed her romantic relationship with Barnabas, who remained fearful that Victoria's knowledge of the horrors from 1790 would someday resurface and jeopardize their future together. (based on projections for a second season)
It kind of bugs me that they were going to go the same route of her just forgetting her experiences. I really loved the fact she found out he was a vampire and I think that would have made it more interesting if she knew.
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Let me get this straight: Sarah said (if I remember correctly) that terrible things would happen unless somebody from the 20th century learned of the dreadful doings of the 18th century, and she therefore sent Vicky back to 1790. By installing Vicky in 1790, Sarah caused Angelique to learn that Barnabas was on the loose in the 20th century, whereupon Angelique set out to wreak havoc in 20th century as well as the 18th. Then Vicky returned to the 20th century unable to remember clearly the crucial information that she was sent to the 18th century to learn. So Sarah's attempt to make everything all right just made everything all wrong.
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Sounds pretty much, Lydia, like how American major corporations run their business.
Gerard
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I've alwys been bugged by the fact that Vicki's trip to the past didn't change anything. But her trip into the past in the original series did bring some positive changes. Vicki going to the past somehow brought Peter to the present. If Vicki hadn't seen Jeff on the side of the road she wouldn't have wrecked the car and Barnabas would have made her a vampire, and wouldn't have had his remission from vampirism. That was a big part of Barnabas changing from his evil ways.
It does occur to me that Barnabas was kinder and gentler immediately after Vicki returned though. Perhaps Vicki's prescence in the past inspired Barnabas to be a better person?
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Not really, [spoiler]he was going to make Vicky a vampire after all and he was still the same to Julia and threatened to kill her if he was found out.
He also still had Carolyn under his control and wouldn't release her when she asked him to.[/spoiler]
Though, David is absent and that part of the storyline is forgotten. I guess there wasn't any real way to conclude that plot in the new direction of the show.
It does occur to me that Barnabas was kinder and gentler immediately after Vicki returned though. Perhaps Vicki's prescence in the past inspired Barnabas to be a better person?
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Victoria '91 did change history [spoiler]remember she saved Daniel's life by telling Peter to use Ice and Alcohol and not warm blankets~ remember Angie was trying to wipe the whole line out so Victoria would be separated from Barney forever. [/spoiler] Also DS RESSURECTED is a POM PRESS book, I would put much faith in it. The quotes MB and I have talked about came from Matt Hall from SHADOWS IN THE NINETIES! The POM press thing sounds like a Half ass explanation to try an appease fans. JMO
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Thanks for clearing that up, Taeylor!
I couldn't agree more...NBC DOES suck!
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I don't see how Vicky could have changed 1790 in the way Taeylor says she did. Or anyway, if she did, it was a change that was possible only because Vicky had changed things by going back to 1790.
[spoiler]If Daniel died in the original timeline, then where did the 1991 Collinses come from, and shouldn't they now be pushed out of Collinwood by Daniel's descendants? And if he didn't die in the original timeline, then all Vicky did was to restore the status quo that had been disturbed when Angelique learned through Vicky's presence of the 20th century Collinses.[/spoiler]
I know (or anyway, I vaguely remember) that Vicky thought that she had been sent to 1790 in order to make this change - but I think she was wrong.
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in both versions of the show vicki's notion that she had been sent back for a "purpose" is oddly self delusional considering what happens.
she prevents virtually none of the disasters,gets herself into boatloads of trouble in the process of doing nothing,and alerts angelique to the presence of barnabas in the future thus paving the way for all the trouble she will cause there.
she's not much help. [hall2_undecided]
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Bless you, mscbryk, that post warmed the cockles of my heart.
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i'm glad you liked it lydia...
but i still think vicki is pretty and has nice hair. [hall2_wink]
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Time Travel gives me a headache. I just accept it! ;)
...Off to take a Advil. I'm back and feeling very inspired and happy btw! :)
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Methinks the whole point of Victoria traveling in time is that she had always gone back in time, that she had always been part of events...
Except that Barnabas didn't remember her. Never mind. [hall2_tongue]