DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '08 II => Topic started by: IluvBarnabas on October 22, 2008, 03:03:04 PM
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I loved Mitch's portrayal of Burke Devlin, and I know many on here do too, and I do kinda wish he had stayed on. But if he had stayed....how would he have done in the role of Jeremiah?
I do think Anthony George made a great Jeremiah and, odd as it seems, I think he clicked more with Alexandra as Jeremiah than he did as Burke (I know....strange, but it's how I feel).
I really don't know if I could see Mitch pulling the role off, fine actor that he is. But I've been wrong before.
What does anyone think?
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I would have to agree. Mitch Ryan did do a better Burke, being far more aggressive in his portrayal. But I do like Anthony George's portrayal of Jeremiah because he was far more soft-spoken. I think Ryan's approach would be far gruffer and hence less sympathetic.
Gerard
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Somehow, I cannot wrap my head around Mitch Ryan in powder blue 18th Century attire....
[jawdrp]
Though, granted I have as yet only seen in the pre-Barn eps up to [spoiler]the death of Bill Malloy....[/spoiler]
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If Mitch Ryan had played Jeremiah, the character would have been written and costumed differently. I can imagine him giving off a few wry looks conveying how strange he found it to be in love with Josette, whereas Anthony George tended to look confused by the situation. Also, Jeremiah’s complete lack of interest in Millicent would have been more interesting.
Additionally, Jeremiah would have lived longer, because Mitch Ryan would (I assume) have had no thought of leaving the show. I’ve mentioned before that I think that if Jeremiah had lived, there could have been some interesting interactions between Jeremiah, Josette, Barnabas, and Vicky, since Jeremiah had shown some interest in Vicky before Angelique had messed with his mind, and Barnabas in 1967 had shown himself to be capable of falling in love with Vicky.
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Drifting OT, but you think Ryan might have shown back up as Burke after 1795 [spoiler](perhaps the lone survivor of that plane crash?)[/spoiler]
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I can imagine him giving off a few wry looks conveying how strange he found it to be in love with Josette, whereas Anthony George tended to look confused by the situation. Also, Jeremiah’s complete lack of interest in Millicent would have been more interesting.
But he was supposed to be confused...he was under Ang's spell.
I'm not sure I understand about 'Jeremiah's complete lack on interest in Millicent' is supposed to mean...can you expound Lydia?
Thanks,
Patti
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Once DC fires someone, they do not return. Timothy Gordon could have played a new Burke though.
Drifting OT, but you think Ryan might have shown back up as Burke after 1795 [spoiler](perhaps the lone survivor of that plane crash?)[/spoiler]
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Mitch Ryan was one of my favorite actors on the show early on. It's too bad he couldn't control himself and had to get fired. I never did like Anthony George as Burke and/or Jeremiah. I think if Mitch had played Jeremiah, he'd have brought a very edgy quality to the role. Instead, we got bland, bland, bland, IMHO. [devil2]
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Once DC fires someone, they do not return. Timothy Gordon could have played a new Burke though.
Ooops, I didn't make myself clear. [spoiler]What I meant was if Ryan had never left, would the character of Burke have returned[/spoiler]
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I am imagining that a Ryan Jeremiah might be more like pre-Barn Burke, more at odds with Joshua (the way Burke and Roger were). He'd never be in powder blue and he'd look like a old salt seaman crammed into tails and ruffles. He'd be frustrated that he didn't have his own fortune and is tied to Joshua's purse strings, and his interest in Millicent would be for her money and nothing else, and not to add to the Maine family wealth (Joshua's plan) but to have his own money. He would of course, not be as predatory as Nathan, possibly because Vicki would appeal to his better nature, and the he end up throwing that all away anyway because of Angelique's spell.
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I'm not sure I understand about 'Jeremiah's complete lack on interest in Millicent' is supposed to mean...can you expound Lydia?
I think Nelson Collins has indicated pretty well what I meant - i.e. that Joshua was hoping that Jeremiah would marry their cousin Millicent in order to keep her money in the Collins family, but Jeremiah would have nothing to do with her. I thought that, for the viewers, knowledge of the history between Carolyn and Mitch Ryan's Burke might add a little something to that interplay. But I like Nelson's idea that Mitch Ryan's Jeremiah might not be so quick to veto Millicent. After Jeremiah's death, Joshua mentioned in passing that Jeremiah's estate was larger than expected, but that needn't have been the case.
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Mitch Ryan staying on DS changes things considerably.
[spoiler]Burke wouldn't have been in a plane crash[/spoiler]
and he would have been in the story right up to & after 1795.
With an MR Jeremiah, they may have kept the original idea of Josette coming to marry him (at the beginning of 1795 they may have already been married and with a son- Daniel perhaps).
Angelique could still have been Josette's maidservant & living in Collinwood all those years with Barnabas later marrying her while pining secretly for Josette.
After Josette's suicide and Vicky accused of withcraft, Jeremiah may have represented her instead of Peter Bradford.
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I think Nelson Collins has indicated pretty well what I meant - i.e. that Joshua was hoping that Jeremiah would marry their cousin Millicent in order to keep her money in the Collins family, but Jeremiah would have nothing to do with her. I thought that, for the viewers, knowledge of the history between Carolyn and Mitch Ryan's Burke might add a little something to that interplay.
Oh, duh, I didn't even think of this...thanks!!
Patti
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I thought that, for the viewers, knowledge of the history between Carolyn and Mitch Ryan's Burke might add a little something to that interplay.
I see that the writers might have been going for that and it kind of works on paper, and maybe it did work for long time viewers at the time. Unfortunately (for me anyway) AG's primary association for me would have been Vicki, because even though Ryan's Burke dallied with Carolyn, it's George's Burke was already involved with Vicki and had little to do with Carolyn.
Do Jeremiah and Millicent even share any scenes together at all? I recall Joshua talking to Jeremiah about trying to get them together, but I don't remember if they even ever actually meet onscreen. It seems like subplot died almost before it was born.
1795 is a curious beast, in a way the most unlike among all the Time Travel stories where that interplay between actor/character associations across the timelines are not nearly as numerous as they become later, BF/KLS being pretty much the only one in 1795.
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BF/KLS? Who is BF?
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Barnabas Frid of course! [hall2_grin]
Sorry for the typo [hall2_tongue]
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After Josette's suicide and Vicky accused of withcraft, Jeremiah may have represented her instead of Peter Bradford.
Now that would have been awesome! Though if Mitch would have stayed on, I could see him as Nathan Forbes for some reason...that would have been interested...that would have left Joel Crothers as Jeremiah which might have worked since Maggie and Joe were together.
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What was the reason for Mitch Ryan being fired from the show? I have always wondered about that.
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I think it was the alcohol. That and he'd often show up late.
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I think it was the alcohol.
It was. And not knowing his lines because of it.
That and he'd often show up late.
He'd show up hung over, or not show up at all.
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I wonder how they worked around that, especially if he did not show up at all? Considering the way DS was shot - an entire episode virtually from beginning to end, reshooting bloopers only in the most extraordinary of circumstances, even inserting the musical score and commercials - just how was it done? We know of a few situations in which emergencies did happen to the performers and they had to do quick rewrites removing the missing actor/actress, or the even more rarely utilized having a stand-in (such as "fake Carolyn" when Nancy Stoddard came down with the flu), but how was it accomplished when Mitch Ryan did not show up? All I can think is that they had to quick episode rewrite after rewrite until he was dismissed from the series and his permanent replacement found.
Gerard
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I wonder how they worked around that, especially if he did not show up at all?
In at least one instance Joel Crothers stepped in and Burke's lines were given to Joe.
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Well if the alcohol was more important to Mitch instead of his job playing Burke, then he should have put in his resignation. That would have been better instead of being fired.
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Do Jeremiah and Millicent even share any scenes together at all? I recall Joshua talking to Jeremiah about trying to get them together, but I don't remember if they even ever actually meet onscreen. It seems like subplot died almost before it was born.
I'm pretty sure they do---at least one big one. I believe they are introduced and it's clear there is no way that it would be a viable marriage. I kind of love Barrett as Millicent. She is such a flake.
I am not an Anthony George fan. I didn't like him as Burke and I loathed him as Jeremiah. I've said this before but the way he played Burke it was like his ultimate ambition was to live in a house with aluminum siding.
When Mitchell Ryan played Burke, his chemistry with Moltke was good. Burke comes to town with a whole other agenda. He's ruthless when playing Carolyn against her family, trying to manipulate others, etc., but he's totally disarmed with Vicki. He brought a lot of complexity to the part. He's particularly good with Diana Millay.
Anthony George's Burke on the other hand is borderline abusive with Vicki. He lectures and rants on her sanity a lot. There's very little chemistry there and his performance is rather one note.
I suspect if Ryan had been around for 1795 his part would have been a bit different, but I think he would have brought a lot to the table.
On another note--I continue to find it hysterical [spoiler]that after being shot in a duel, his injuries require him to be bandaged like Boris Karloff in the Mummy. And also that the family can't even put the guy in a coffin. They toss him in the ground with a shroud over him. [/spoiler]
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Doug, it's often not as simple as that. Alcoholism is a disease and a pretty insidious one at that. My brother and Father suffer(ed) from it and my father drank himself to death never once admitting he had any sort of problem.
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It took a loved one of mine twenty years and several lost jobs to admit he had a problem with alcohol. What's obvious to the sober folks isn't to the one with the drinking problem. Obviously Mr. Ryan didn't get he had a problem and it was affecting his work.
Nancy
Well if the alcohol was more important to Mitch instead of his job playing Burke, then he should have put in his resignation. That would have been better instead of being fired.
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I always found Anthony's protrayal towards Vickie as more of a overbearing father than a suitor. Apparently Mitch Ryan got a handle on his drinking because looking at his credits he appears to be the most prolific of the cast members in terms of work afer DS. I think he had his best work in the first year and have to agree that his interaction with Laura was his best moments. It's too bad that the younger man older woman storyline wasn't around on the sixies soaps because I think he had Joan Bennett would have been a good pairing.
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Doug, it's often not as simple as that. Alcoholism is a disease and a pretty insidious one at that. My brother and Father suffer(ed) from it and my father drank himself to death never once admitting he had any sort of problem.
My grandfather was an alcoholic and he also drank himself to death down in Key West, FL. I never knew him when I was growing up.
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Obviously Mr. Ryan didn't get he had a problem and it was affecting his work.
Exactly. According to his TV Guide interview from the mid 70s, getting fired from DS resulted in his first attempt to get a handle on his drinking, and after a relapse landed him in the hospital, he quit for good. His TV credits took off during that decade and he continued to work steadily during the 80s, 90s and beyond.
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I think if Mitch Ryan would have stayed to portray Jeremiah, his character would never have put up with Joshua's bossiness towards him.