DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '08 II => Topic started by: Watching Project 2 on October 11, 2008, 02:00:06 AM

Title: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: Watching Project 2 on October 11, 2008, 02:00:06 AM
For those who may have missed it the first time around, here's the montage for Ep #4 that we created in the forum's VantageNet days to celebrate the '91 series' 10th Anniversary:

(http://www.dsboards.com/1991/91-04.jpg)

And here's the recap/preview:

[video]
http://www.dsboards.com/1991/Recap-Preview_4.swf

(To control the play of the video, right-click on it and use the controls.)
[/video]

(More to come...)
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: Taeylor Collins on October 11, 2008, 02:25:48 AM
SIMPLY A M A Z I N G!   Thank you so much Mysterious!  [8_1_214]
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: michael c on October 11, 2008, 04:52:27 AM
in some ways tonight's episode seemed like two different shows...

i didn't get a chance to post in last week's topic but david's "dream" involving daphne,carolyn and vicki was pure velveeta.tonight's opening scene at professor woodard's place topped that slice of velveeta with a nice dollop of cheese whiz.totally adolescent and camp.i felt really bad for the actor.

but the scene that introduced us to angelique was genuinely well done.scary and cool and sophisticated.strange this dichotomy.

deputy harker looks sort of like roger davis.he's kind of hot.

so here we get to the place where it starts to become clear that julia has feelings for barnabas.he totally plays into this.is he being manipulative or is he genuinely clueless at this point?how is it that julia is unaware that barnabas and vicki are an item?they don't seem to be trying to hide it.how does the family feel that their new governess is romantically involved with a family member?wouldn't this "upstairs/downstairs" type of thing be frowned upon in an old moneyed new england family?

i can't get into the whole barnabas and vicki romance.it rings false to me.

vicki gets some seriously "grannyish" duds in this ep.all that crochet and lace and that brooch!

ely pouget is hot but maggie needs some serious frizz control.

i like that people still smoked and drinked back then before the p.c. police started babysitting everyone.

laura.so david's mother is getting the big buildup here.so is her affect on him.i wonder where this is meant to go.strange that in the same episode that they introduce angelique they also give laura a shout out.it's sort of confusing.it's like who the heck is this "witch"?laura or angelique?

this came up in another topic but i don't remotely get a "mother/daughter" vibe from elizabeth and vicki here.it's not even hinted at.

i love the outdoor location that vicki and maggie get coffee.does anyone know where that is in california?
since vicki is already well acquainted with ghosts and vampires it's funny that she raises an eyebrow to maggie's claim to second sight.it's like the least of what she's heard lately but whatever.

i liked that the other characters got some focus this week and it wasn't just the barnabas show.i've decided that barnabas is the j.r. ewing of this affair.he sucks all the air out of the room.he's sort of exhausting.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on October 11, 2008, 04:26:50 PM
tonight's opening scene at professor woodard's place topped that slice of velveeta with a nice dollop of cheese whiz.totally adolescent and camp.i felt really bad for the actor.

That was DC's last gasp of stealing, er, borrowing, er, paying homage to his other projects. It's also the last ep that DC officially directs. And I say "officially" because he ghost directs parts of Ep #12 - but we'll get into that when that ep comes up for discussion...

Quote
but the scene that introduced us to angelique was genuinely well done.scary and cool and sophisticated.strange this dichotomy.

Yes, I was very impressed with that.

Quote
deputy harker looks sort of like roger davis.he's kind of hot.

Steve Fletcher played stud/screwup Brad Vernon on One Life To Life back in the day.

Quote
laura.so david's mother is getting the big buildup here.so is her affect on him.i wonder where this is meant to go.strange that in the same episode that they introduce angelique they also give laura a shout out.it's sort of confusing.it's like who the heck is this "witch"?laura or angelique?

That was deliberate. And it would have been compounded by the fact that Lysette Anthony was to also play Laura. There was actually a great deal of discussion among the writers as to how Angelique and Laura would be connected - but there would definitely be a connection...

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i love the outdoor location that vicki and maggie get coffee.does anyone know where that is in california?

San Pedro's Ports of Call.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: Taeylor Collins on October 12, 2008, 02:46:40 AM
When I read years ago they were gonna let Lysette play Laura I once again wanted to murder NBC.  I know they didn't exactly know how it would have played out but I thought the second season would have just been BEYOND amazing!  I need a drink.............LOL

Love the Angelique scene.  AMAZING!  I am off to watch this ep!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: alwaysdavid on October 12, 2008, 04:03:53 AM
My problem with the Woodard segment is that if he so desired to become a vampire then why would he risk it all by attacking the sheriff. He could easily have disposed of that tiny film.   It was great that Julia jumped in and saved the sheriff instead of looking on like a helpless bystander.  Victoria also seems to know no fear as she treks off after Sarah into the west wing.
 I liked how they split the story up and began to develop the Roger storyline.  The scene with Maggie and Victoria was in a very New England setting and it was a good way to tell Laura's backstory to Victoria.  The writers should have done this in the first episode to let the viewer and Victoria in on some of the other characters and make it seem natural that the newcomer would be interested in finding out about the people she  would be working for.  Maggie's simple declaration that Laura was a witch makes one wonder if Collinsport is used to unusual happenings.
The scenes in the Old House with Angeligue's spirit were startling and spooky.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: Lydia on October 12, 2008, 02:31:05 PM
My problem with the Woodard segment is that if he so desired to become a vampire then why would he risk it all by attacking the sheriff. He could easily have disposed of that tiny film.
I daresay that Woodard didn't think there was any risk in attacking the sheriff.  It never occurred to him that Julia would be able to save the day: she would have been his dessert.  (Or maybe some after-dinner cheese; Julia isn't sweet enough to be dessert.)  As for the film, yes, he could of disposed of it, but he didn't even need to, since it turned out not to be incriminating.  Still, attacking the sheriff was not a good idea, and all I can figure is that he had spent the whole conversation hiding his insane craving for the sheriff's blood, and when he saw the blood about to walk out the door it just became too much for him.

So, if Lysette Anthony is set to play Laura as well as Angelique, are we going to get a storyline involving Roger and Barnabas going a-hunting together?  Not to mention comparing foxhole stories.

I'd be sort of interested to know what Sarah was doing at Collinwood before Barnabas was unchained.  Did she in any way lead Willie to unchain Barnabas?
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: Miss_Winthrop on October 13, 2008, 05:57:36 PM
Actually I was bored with the luncheon meeting for Maggie and Victoria.  Liked that Julia saved the day for the Sheriff.  Finding Barnabas character totally unsympathetic and as someone mentioned, thought that he might be baiting Julia.  I'm liking the Sarah actress very much and as someone mentioned, the filming in the west wing is real good.  I'm feeling a little bit of sympathy for Willie for a change. In someways this episode seems a little disjointed and things don't flow right.  Thank goodness I looked ahead to episode 5 which is going a long way in saving the show for me.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: Watching Project 2 on October 13, 2008, 10:04:53 PM
(http://www.dsboards.com/1991/91series-4.jpg)

And here are the commercial bumpers for Ep #4 (and probably the rest of the series):

[video]
http://www.dsboards.com/1991/0118_Bumper_1.swf

(To control the play of the video, right-click on it and use the controls.)
[/video]

[video]
http://www.dsboards.com/1991/0118_Bumper_2.swf

(To control the play of the video, right-click on it and use the controls.)
[/video]

[video]
http://www.dsboards.com/1991/0118_Bumper_3.swf

(To control the play of the video, right-click on it and use the controls.)
[/video]

(More to come...)
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: Taeylor Collins on October 14, 2008, 08:09:38 AM
Some screen pictures I took from this episode.  Hope you enjoy!   [skull_winks]
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: Gothick on October 14, 2008, 03:17:44 PM
I thought the little girl who played Sarah was really, exceptionally good.  She projected the quality I felt was needed in the character just beautifully.

I only ever saw this episode on VHS once in the mid Nineties, and remember very little of it.  I remember thinking the whole business with Professor Woodard was truly beyond Velveeta on the cheese scale.  And, sadly, a harbinger of things to come in this series.

G.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: Watching Project 2 on October 17, 2008, 05:14:29 PM
Previews:

[video]
http://www.dsboards.com/1991/Previews_4.swf

(To control the play of the video, right-click on it and use the controls.)
[/video]
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: Taeylor Collins on October 17, 2008, 06:14:51 PM

Love the theme song to this show, it is so mesmerizing.  I love the full sound the song has and I love how it ends, dun dun dunnnnnnn! 
It makes me smile.

I really love the voice over as it was nicely written. I actually think the model is very effective here when showered with the elements. Poor Julia!  She is so conflicted and I feel sorry for her. Nice STORM!  Best one yet on the show in my opinion. The credits let us know Sam Hall wrote this story but I am sure most of it is duh to the fact that they draw off of ‘other’ DC work. 

I have to admit as a 14 year old teen that hadn't been exposed to DC’s past work I loved the scene with Woodard, Julia and Patterson. I thought the scene was glorious and to me Woodard was the creepiest vamp yet and I thought Stefan G was wonderful in all the ridiculousness!  I loved that Julia took action herself and helped the Patterson out.  She is a tough beyotch and I don't mean that derogatory! ;) It seems very fitting to have Barbara Steele stab the vampire, who then tried to drink from her, he wasn't giving up, screw that big pole sticking out of my back! I found him to be so animalistic and creepy. I think Michael Cavanaugh is a very strong actor.  I love the look Julia gave Patterson when he said “better yet, how ‘bout a good stiff drink” I say hell yeah.  I would be drinking one if I witnessed such horror.  I might need two or three stiff ones.

Wasn't the Police Station Interior filmed in the basement of Greystone to save money?  Seems like I read this in Shadows In The 90S or DS Resurrected! Good Job!  I guess Julia smokes or needed a cigarette too, I think I may need one of those too if I had witnessed what she did. So did Barney do some hocus pocus on the film?

Poor Liz!  I thought Jean Simmons really was amazing in this scene with Roy Thinnes. I wish she could have had more material to work with and more scenes.  I suspect had a S2 come to fruition Elizabeth would have done more! She is a great actress, truly talented.
I love when Julia gives Barnabas a good hard push with her needle and basically acts like a bitch to him.  I love it!  GO GIRL! Barnabas is definitely leading Julia on or so it seems to me! The scene with the music box has a romantic tone coming from Barnabas in my opinion!
I love the scenes with Sarah and David. “Well she’s my friend” was delivered sweetly by David. I like Victoria’s idea about exchanging gifts.  I think is the ways in which she reaches David.

Love, love, love the lighting when Victoria first sees Sarah!  AMAZING! Love Sarah fading through the door with her image slowed down a bit to give it that creepy vibe.  This episode has some really nice FX’s!  Nice low crooked shot as Victoria runs toward the West Wing. Great scene with David sneaking up on her and I wonder if his mom's powers are part of him because he seems to know things!!?
If you have DS Resurrected if you will notice on a the big blow up picture of Barnabas entering the cemetery with his billowing cape there is a LARGE TOMB for Sarah which seems more fitting that the small one that Victoria finds. She was COLLINS and got that small of a tomb stone?
J looks so gorgeous in these scenes.  Her eyebrows are just perfectly arched and beautiful just like her. Nice shot of Sarah at the beach. 
Great shot showing Barnabas in the mirror kind of reiterate and remind the audience that much has changed about him.  Willie and Barnabas have an interesting relationship. In this day and time people my think them a couple?  It's a thought. Interesting to think about the strange kinship the two share.

And now we come to some of the scariest scene  most and special FX S I have seen on television, even if this was made back in 1991!  It truly holds up against all the CGI that is available today.  Imagine me at 14 just baffled scared and enthralled!  Fun times!  I remember like it was yesterday!  “She is a force so evil so powerful. That even know she reaches across the centuries to destroy me!” Barnabas

Fire seems to be important in this episode.  HMMMM??  Just a coincidence or are Angelique and Laura in some way connected?  That is what I kind of feel was being set up.  Future tie in possibly? Ely Pouget was so great during her vision scenes! I love her and think she is an amazing part of DS ‘ 91!  I cannot imagine it without her.  So Dan liked her.   I really enjoyed the scene with Victoria and Maggie.  The setting was great and it looked like a gloomy New England day.  Do you know where this was filmed Midnite??   Maggie likes to puff, but like others said it's nice to see everything not be so PC!  I love the foreboding of Laura. REPEAT WITH ME!  I HATE YOU NBC!!!  So Maggie thinks Laura is a witch? I am sorry but I find this episode beyond intriguing with all the foreboding.

I like Barnabas ascot as it’s kind a call back to older days! I just REALLY and truly jumped when the WINDOW blew open now that was cool.  I had forgotten about that.  Great to feel that scare!  “Your plans” Sarah writes.  Do you think the plans she refers to is B trying to make V another J? Did that make sense?
I love that B’s bad side shows & then he pulls back and doesn't hurt Willie and he thanks him for his loyalty!

A+
This episode was nothing but  action, suspense, romance and great writing and acting from beginning to end.  My favorite episode so far!

Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: Midnite on October 17, 2008, 11:24:22 PM
I really enjoyed the scene with Victoria and Maggie.  The setting was great and it looked like a gloomy New England day.  Do you know where this was filmed Midnite??
MB answered that in Reply ##3.  I think the area should be part of any So. California DS tour.  [hall2_grin]  You'll be seeing other parts of it as well.  And it's pronounced San Pee-dro, btw; the locals never say San Pay-dro.

Quote
I am sorry but I find this episode beyond intriguing with all the foreboding.

Same here!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: Philippe Cordier on October 18, 2008, 01:15:10 AM
What I disliked more than that dream [in Ep #4], though, was Professor Woodard's having instantaneously become a vampire.  I didn't like the similar scene with Thayer David in HODS, either.  I've always thought of vampirism as a long, drawn-out process, so this suddenly becoming a vampire just doesn't fit in with my beliefs.

If this was the episode where Sarah led Victoria into the room with the diary, I thought that was very nicely done.   Understated and spooky.  It even made me ponder the question of whether those who have gone on might return to guide us - perhaps not in so visible a way as this, but I could see this scene as almost symbolic of what I feel can occur within the interior of a person.

I also noted Jean Simmons' well-acted but all-to-brief scene, one which I didn't remember from a previous viewing.

If this was the episode where a photographic negative of Angelique comes blowing out of the fireplace for unknown reasons, that was yet one more thing I really disliked.  If I weren't already a DS fan, I probably would have turned off the TV with that scene and forgotten about ever watching the show again.

As someone else mentioned, fortunately, there was then Episode 5 ...

[edited by admin]
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on October 18, 2008, 05:03:59 AM
If this was the episode where...

An Easy Way To Identify The Eps
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: Taeylor Collins on October 18, 2008, 05:49:54 AM
If this was the episode where a photographic negative of Angelique comes blowing out of the fireplace for unknown reasons, that was yet one more thing I really disliked.  If I weren't already a DS fan, I probably would have turned off the TV with that scene and forgotten about ever watching the show again.

I thought the quality of that effect was better than anything I had saw on tv at that time.  However that is just me. It freaked me out!

Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: Nelson Collins on October 22, 2008, 04:20:51 AM
First of all, apologies for being gone so long.  I got into a rather black funk for the last couple of weeks and tried to avoid this place lest I say something I oughtn’t.  Anyway, better now.  On with the show….

Poor Elizabeth, wasted again (no, not that way, that would have been interesting)

I still don’t like Roger, even if we do finally find out he’s a closet artist.

Well, well, episode four seems to be the episode when just about everything supernatural gets its freak on.

Woodard turning out to be a vampire was a surprise.  I had not remembered that from the last time I watched the series.  Creepy and frightening.  But as mentioned upthread, pains have been taken to show what a slow process this whole cell turning someone into an undead bloodsucker, yet we we have Woodard in the space of a few hours fully turned.  Some vampire lore states that when a vampire drains one over time they may become one themselves after death, but if blood is shared that considerably speeds up the process.  It would have been nice to have that explained, but it brings up another irritating side effect:  we have the shock and surprise, but I would have liked after the cliffhanger of episode three, to have seen the confrontation / conversation between Barnabas and Woodard.  Woodard wanted to become a vampire???  I have trouble believing that.  That is definitely a scene that needed to be shown – Woodard’s distaste but at the same time the awe and wonder of actually having a conversation with an actual VAMPIRE.  Let me see Woodard change from a staunch upright citizen seeking out evil to destroy it to a man tempted by the offer of an immortal existence.  Having said that, if he did want to become a vampire why would Barnabas grant his wish if Barnabas himself views his condition with horror and loathing?  I think he is selling Julia (and us) a bill of goods, since she was a friend of Woodard’s and Barnabas knowing that she is starting to fall for him.  Did you see the look on her face when he played the music box, waxing poetic on how he will one day give it to his true love?  He is sooo leading her on.

I’m still confused by the schizophrenic writing of Barnabas’ character.  Even contemporary characters like JR and Alexis were evil, but we LOVED THEM.  We couldn’t wait each week to see what new nastiness they would perpetrate (My mother had a couple of stick pin broaches, one said I Love JR the other said JR for President.).  Is Barnabas supposed to be the stylish bad guy through whom we live vicariously? Or is he a really evil sonuvabitch that we can’t wait to see what is coming to him?  Or is he the tragic Byronic hero, tortured by his nature?  He’s one thing, then another, and still another as the script requires with no consistency whatsoever.  I just am not happy with the way he is written.

I like the development of the relationship between David and Victoria and now Sarah.  I like the effect of Sarah passing through the door.  It was almost like she was pushing herself through.  I was snapping beans as I watched so I didn’t make any notes, but did Vickie read the diary at all before she gave it to Barnabas?  It’s like she gets this really cool gift from a ghost no less and almost the first thing she does with it is give it away!  What was that all about?

Wow, we get wham wham wham the introduction of Angelique, followed by, a mysterious conversation about Roger’s wife, David trying to kill his father Maggie being revealed as a psychic and then the revelation that David’s mother is a witch, and a powerful one at that.  Was that Laura controlling David?  Or was that Angelique?  Is there a connection?  I am intrigued and wondering if the series had continued, would we have seen Laura and would she have been played by Lysette Anthony?

An aside – the missing conversation with Woodard, and later the way awkward “I suppose you’ve heard about my psychic powers” reminds me of the staginess of Lugosi’s Dracula.  That film was based on the Broadway play, so much of the action is confined to just a few sets.  Lots of important things and images are merely talked about rather than seen (Renfield talking about the millions of rats that his master has summoned for him, or Harker looking off camera and saying that Dracula has turned into a huge dog and running off.  Anyway, the scenes we don’t see in DS that are referred to are the kind of thing that always gets my writer’s dander up.  Every teacher I ever had hammered into me, show, don’t tell. – end of aside.

Once again, Barnabas and Willie get the best scenes.  If I didn’t know (and see) that Willie acts more like a faithful pet dog, I’d start to get a Brokeback Mountain vibe.  I found myself very intrigued by their intimacy, Willie on the ottoman at Barnabas’ feet in front of the fire, staring up at him as Barnabas reads to Willie from his sister’s diary and tells him private details about how close they were.  The pet dog image is reinforced by the visitation from Angelique with Willie cowering on his knees behind Barn.  And then later when Barnabas threatens Willie and Willie talks him down, and they both express the regard they have for each other.  It only confuses me more and I can’t help wondering if the wildly inconsistent tone of the character of Barnabas (the star) had an adverse affect on the ratings.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: Taeylor Collins on October 22, 2008, 04:32:54 AM
Wow, we get wham wham wham the introduction of Angelique, followed by, a mysterious conversation about Roger’s wife, David trying to kill his father Maggie being revealed as a psychic and then the revelation that David’s mother is a witch, and a powerful one at that.  Was that Laura controlling David?  Or was that Angelique?  Is there a connection?  I am intrigued and wondering if the series had continued, would we have seen Laura and would she have been played by Lysette Anthony?

 It makes me sick to my stomach to think about.  And if I am not mistaken, Lysette WAS gonna play Laura they just wasn't for sure how it was all gonna happen.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #04
Post by: tragic bat on March 31, 2010, 11:18:54 PM
Woodards scene was very surprising--perhaps the biggest surprise of this series, for me.  However, that ties into its nonsenicality and needless gore--what about some sauve, stylish vampires?  Shouldn't woodard have packed his things and moved away if apparently he wanted to live forever?  

I really loved the connection between Maggie and Roger seen as a creative one--she sculpts, and he paints.  We got to see the tower room, and the west wing today.  I also love, love the Angelique/Lara duality here, and I really wish the show had gotten to that.  I guess there must be a strong connection between Viki/Josette, because otherwise, there is a lot to be turned off by in Barnabas.  One minute he lets you in, the next minute he declares he'll kill you if you ever speak of that subject (which he brought up himself) again, he turns away, asks you to leave...

Was it this episode where some "reverand" was given a credit at the end, but never showed up in the story?