DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '08 II => Topic started by: Watching Project 2 on September 27, 2008, 02:00:11 AM

Title: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Watching Project 2 on September 27, 2008, 02:00:11 AM: [video]
http://www.dsboards.com/1991/Opening_2-3.swf

(To control the play of the video, right-click on it and use the controls.)
[/video]

(More bits to come...)
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: michael c on September 27, 2008, 04:43:06 AM: daphne is being guarded as this episode opens.

i'm not sure if i could sleep with a sheriff's deputy seated a few feet away from my bed in a room with the lights on but then again this is not my sleep it's daphne's.

when she leaves her dozing watchdogs and heads outside to meet barnabas it looks like daylight to me but this must be one of those pesky "day for night" photography issues so whatever.i was surprised to see them making out.in other vampire tales it's lustful nature is implied but here it's spelled out quite graphically.

daphnes funeral was very effective.it had the air of an old agatha christy mystery where all of the suspects are gathered together in the drawing room.well done.

we learn that roger and maggie evans are hooking up.i'm not sure where this is going.does maggie live somewhere on the collins estate?her place looks like it's somewhere on the grounds with all that gothic statuary and the dilapidated greenhouse and such.speaking of which have we learned why so much of the estate in in disrepair?

here we go.in episode one i said it bothered me that vampires were being mentioned so soon.that it took alot of the mystery and suspense out of it.still it was just a mention.but here we are in episode three and the cat is already out of the bag.the central mystery has been solved and everyone in collinsport knows vampires are on the loose.i find this pacing to be astonishing.again,for me this takes an enormous chunk of the suspense and mystery and atmosphere out of the proceedings but i'm sure others will differ.

so now we get law enforcement that runs around with crucifixes.and not just ordinary,every day,run-of-the-mill crucifixes but big,shiny,mirrored crucifixes(the better to showcase that big,shiny,1991 budget!).

daphne is quite creepy when she tells joe "don't worry" and goes in for the kill.still with the orange "thriller" contact lenses the way this sequence plays out has a cheese factor that is quite high.

the collins family knows there is a vampire in their midst and yet no one thinks that their very recently arrived(the very night of the first attack to be precise),never seen during the daytime relative might play a role in this.elizabeth only comments on what a "comfort" barnabas' presence always is which is odd since he's only been around for a few weeks at most.much is made of what a "dear" relationship barnabas has with his "cousin elizabeth" but whatever.we don't see this being played out so it's sort of irrelevant.

finally,in a neat trick,julia has the presence of mind to glance into the massive drawing room mirror that no one else seems to notice that cousin barnabas casts no reflection in.strange but whatever.doctor hoffman's got the goods.

fun episode.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 27, 2008, 06:22:46 AM: [batang] I sit here watching DS '91 Episode Two feeling as if I am 14! I think back 17 years ago when the show premiered and I am filled with YUMMY GOODNESS inside! Even though I will be 31 in a month I still feel that YUMMY GOODNESS! And what sets my senses off even more are MB's video post with the dramatic NBC mini series opening music. I always loved that little promo and watching it brought so much excitement to my heart! Amazing how the senses can take us back. [ghost_wink] So like I said in many ways I feel 14~~I am watching DS on Friday's, the country is at war, and I still hold a grudge against NBC! [ghost_mad] However, the best thing remains. Even though all this bullshit is going on in the world even today, like it was in 1991 and even in the 1960's (I hope that flys because I am not comparing!) You and I have had Dark Shadows to escape into. And thankfully in 2008 we have a wonderful board of cousins to come fellowship with and discuss our love for a wonderful show! So thank you DS for providing much needed escapism in 1991, 2008 all the years in between and many other ways! I know I am off but hopefully you all think it's in a good way! [blackbat]

I am gonna post my review tomorrow. It is gettin late and I need to try to rest. I hope you enjoy these pictures I captured!! [confused_ani]
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 27, 2008, 06:33:00 AM: (more pictures!)
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Miss_Winthrop on September 27, 2008, 01:09:01 PM: Have I missed where the discussion for episode 3 is? [ghost_undecided] I watched the debate last night so I didn't get over to the board to see the discussion.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Midnite on September 27, 2008, 03:39:22 PM: Quote from: Miss_Winthrop on September 27, 2008, 01:09:01 PM
Have I missed where the discussion for episode 3 is? [ghost_undecided]

This week's discussions is here, Miss Winthrop. It's episode 2, or the 3rd hour of the series.

And Taeylor, the smiley codes need spaces to work. The space at the beginning is automatically added when you click to add them, and leave another space if a character follows. However, the formatting codes (quote, bold, strikethrough, spoiler, color, move, center, etc.), do not need spaces before or after. I hope I haven't lost anybody. [ghost_smiley]
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Midnite on September 27, 2008, 04:52:53 PM: Quote from: mscbryk on September 27, 2008, 04:43:06 AM
does maggie live somewhere on the collins estate?her place looks like it's somewhere on the grounds with all that gothic statuary and the dilapidated greenhouse and such.

I believe Maggie's studio is in town, but you're recognizing Greystone because the scenes were filmed there.

The deputy helping to guard Daphne is named Harker, and when a different guy is with Joe, we hear Sheriff Patterson giving patrol instructions to Jonathan... Are they kidding?! That's about as subtle as the thunderstorms over Collinwood. But I'm confused about Harker's character or characters-- he was the paramedic on duty for two of the attacks in the pilot, and now he's guarding Collinwood as a deputy. If I'm supposed to believe that Collinsport is so small that the paramedics are also deputies, then why was the Sheriff cruising around earlier in car #27? ;)
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Nelson Collins on September 27, 2008, 08:07:12 PM: Because the sheriff and his deputies have nothing else to do and they've been hot rodding and crashing, ohhh, about 26 cars now? [ghost_tongue2]
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Lydia on September 27, 2008, 08:48:31 PM: I was dead tired as I watched this episode. Maybe I should have put it off until after I got more sleep.

As Barnabas and Daphne kissed passionately before he bit her, I thought to myself: "This is silly. Let's get down to business." Then, as Daphne and Joe kissed passionately before she bit him, I thought to myself: "Oh, come on, Lydia. Give it a chance." I tried to get into the whole romantic aspect of it, but as Daphne moved her mouth towards Joe's neck for the bite, all I could think was: "She's going to get lipstick on his neck."

When Daphne was staked, we got another romantic moment as Joe lamented what was happening. I wanted to see Joe's expression change as Daphne expired - as if he were waking up from a beautiful dream only to realize that it had in fact been a nightmare. But instead we just got more romance.

Suddenly David, the little terror, is a nice, scared little boy who needs to be comforted by his governess. Victoria Winters sure is a quick worker!

I once watched an interview in which an actress said that on soaps the idea was to give the audience the fun of watching the troubles of the rich folks. Or something like that. But right now I'm looking at these rich folks with their fancy clothes and their fancy houses and their fancy dinners and I'm thinking: "What do I care?"

I still like Maggie, though.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: alwaysdavid on September 28, 2008, 12:02:04 AM: I have to agree with Lydia on who cares. Daphne who we know nothing much about get's attacked, died and then gets staked. None of the character's seemed to show much emotion about it except Joe and it appears that Carolyn is waiting like a spider to snare Joe.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Nelson Collins on September 28, 2008, 04:37:28 AM: My notes on episode 2 --

Michael T Weiss is HOT HOT HOT. But I thought at first his sexy stubble was because he rarely shaved because he's a fisherman. This episode it's now obvious that he manicures that 5 o'clock shadow as if he was Wham's number 1 fan! [ghost_cheesy]

When Woodard came in I could almost see DC with the other writers ticking off a checklist of Vampire Movie Cliche's:

give a cross to the victim, check.
the ones who look after her fall asleep, check.
the victim rips off the cross and goes walkabout, check

I am again reminded of my comment last week. Moving Daphne to the first floor is a BAD idea. I agree with Lydia - the kissey face with Daphne had me rolling my eyes. Later, with Joe, because of his and Daphne's relationship, it makes a kind of sense, but here, it just looks, ew. And definitely gives the lie to Barnabas' later protestations that he hates his existence.

"Harker." cute.

Okay, but damn is he a messy eater or what? For someone who lives on blood, I find it odd that he would leave behind so much of it and sprayed around so liberally. It kind of took me out of the narrative.

Rain during a funeral, check.

The minister - obviously he is in a hurry to get out of the rain because he is speeding through that ceremony like nobody's business. And is Daphne's favorite Psalm really 23??? [ghost_rolleyes] Now, I've been to funerals where the minister obviously didn't know the deceased from Adam's off ox, so I kind of got the feeling this was written that way, but the performance was more like "Hey, buddy, can you speed it up a little? We need to get this in the can and move on to scene 104." Three takes later, DC is having a fit. "We're running out of water, the designer costumes are being ruined and the scene's STILL TOO LONG. SPEED IT THE F**K UP!" [ghost_wink]

Daphne - I seem to recall she was a pretty regular kind of girl, fairly straight hair, subtle make-up, sensible dresser. I would have thought, when she was being prepared for burial, this would have been taken into account. So, either the funeral parlor thought they were being funny by perming and teasing her hair (adding some length too), troweling on half a stick of harlot red lipstick, and dressing her in a low cut diaphanous gown they picked up half price at Tramps R Us ("It's gonna be closed casket anyway, no one will see") or Daphne upon waking up, did all this to herself before she ventured out to terrorize David. Again, it pulled me out of the narrative, wondering "Did they really bury her dressed like that?"

An aside - it's rarely talked about in these kinds of stories because, well, it's like toilets, in that we know they are there, and that the characters must use them, but they are never ever mentioned or talked about. Embalming. Unless there is a specific religious restriction or the deceased is being cremated, I can imagine few other instances where the body would not be be embalmed in the modern way. Given that the back story here is that that a cell in the victim's body needs blood to survive and so in some way as yet unexplained causes a mutagenic change the carrier of this "disease" making them rise to rise after death to seek the nourishment it craves, I would think that the process of embalming, would pretty much destroy this process. Obviously, Barnabas is an exception, as 200 years ago, most people when they died were simply buried asap, before they started to stink up the place. Anyway, that is just me, thinking too much. Generally, I let it go because, that is just one of the things one has to ignore in stories of this kind. And while Julia is convinced this is simply a biological problem that can be solved by science, we see an early example of her hubris, convinced despite both Woodard's and Barnabas' warnings that this is beyond the realm of science. Anyway, end of aside.

*sigh* smoking at the dinner table, heck, smoking inside the house! Those were the days.....

Like Lydia and mscbryk, I too found the introduction of the concept of vampires to be early, not to mentioned rushed. Woodard came off looking like a complete fool. I think a better actor (or some different direction) might have conveyed the concerns a bit more earnestly and upped the creep factor a bit, something that they were going for in the next scene when Joe goes to the Collins mausoleum, whick is covered in dust and years of cobwebs. Despite this, all I could think was, "Why didn't they tidy it up a bit for it's newest tenant?"

Why is Joe not in a hospital? For that matter, why isn't he restrained? One thinks they would have learned their lesson with Daphne.

Misread the Tarot Death card as meaning literal death, check.

Cool old dilapidated greenhouse. I thought at first that it was on the Collinwood estate, probably because I suppose I assumed that since Roger was picking up Maggie "to take her to the estate" that their scene was actually on the estate. (I think I remember thinking when I first watched the original broadcast, that it must Roger's studio, or am I remembering something from a future episode?) But now I am confused, because it seems to be Maggie's place. She doesn't live there does she? Anyway, his and Maggie conversation about the need to create never going away was interesting. Despite her misreading of the cards, I liked that brief scene with her pop too. She quickly became a character I liked. She has a down to earthiness about her that makes her more real than many of the other characters right now.

Right now I still am having a lot of trouble liking Barnabas. His final scene with Julia was well played and meant to elicit sympathy for him, and I wanted to believe that he was telling truth and was disgusted by his curse and his behavior. But his actions to date mitigate very heavily against his words. He turns Daphne, and then makes no effort whatsoever to rescue her from his own cursed existence by getting to her first to destroy her. He is nowhere to be found during the bulk of this episode when Daphne is on the rampage. Obviously, the "trip to Boston" was a lie to cover for him not being around during the day, but how many days have passed since he killed her? At least a couple to arrange the funeral (I am guessing that a new vampire doesn't rise immediately the next night), then the night she scares David, and bites Joe. Is it only one more day, where Joe is treated and then that next night Daphne is cornered and destroyed? So at minimum, four or five days, that Barn hides out at the Old House? or did he really go to Boston for a few days with a spare coffin and take care of some necessary business dealings in the evenings to keep him solvent?

Patterson and Woodard missed a perfect opportunity - they had Daphne restrained and helpless. Did no one think to ask her who did this to her? She had a few seconds of human lucidity before she died, too, but that was all about Joe and her, not trying to solve three murders.

Anyway, along with the whole Daphne episode, to me he sounded incredibly insincere during his visit to Collinwood to apologize for not being around. He does seem to have a modicum of gentlemenlyness, given that he didn't attack Julia the first chance he got, but that could also just be him "playing with his food." I could tell he didn't really believe that Julia could affect any change in his nature through science.

Since at this point, we don't know anything about his origins, I'm having a hard time buying his line that he isn't inherently evil.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Nelson Collins on September 28, 2008, 05:07:04 AM: Also, regarding Barn and Daphne -

Isn't it just like a man? Knock a girl up and then take a hike! [ghost_tongue2]
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 28, 2008, 06:12:17 AM: I haven't gotten around to my review yet (another crazy week) but this episode is worth, if for nothing else, seeing THE GODDESS Barbara Steele deliver this line "WLLIE LET GO OF ME and in not so many terms telling him to f**k off!! And her confortation with Barnabas!! Or I think so!!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Miss_Winthrop on September 28, 2008, 01:51:19 PM: I sense a little bit of [comparison to a character who's off limits for this project] creeping into some of the comments. Since Barnabas doesn't go out in the daylight why is he looking so tan? [ghost_huh] If it was a few days before Daphne's funeral wouldn't the funeral home have taken precautions to assure that the body is prepared for open coffin viewing and how would that have affected her rising from the dead?
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on September 28, 2008, 03:59:31 PM: I have to agree with Miss_Winthrop's first remark. Be very careful to avoid comparisons to anything that for all intents and purposes doesn't exist so far as these discussions go. [ghost_wink]
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Gothick on September 28, 2008, 09:59:05 PM: I know this is really trivial, but looking at Taeylor's ravishingly fabulous captures of Barbara Steele's big scene, I'm remembering that her lipstick seemed WAY too loud to me this last time I watched my videotape of this episode. Just off the hook. Maybe it's because otherwise, her look is restrained and what one would expect of a "brilliant blood specialist by day, icy and aloof dominatrix by night" kinda gal.

I also found Barnabas' makeup in the eighteenth century sequences to be so garish, it frequently distracted me from what was going on (and there was a HELL of a lot going on). Maybe I'll comment on that when you get to those shows, if Taeylor is still kind enough to post his captures--I no longer own tapes of any but the first two episodes.

G.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on September 28, 2008, 10:10:25 PM: Right off the top I'll admit that this is not my favorite ep of the series. It's not that I dislike it - I don't. In fact, I think it has much going for it. However, for me it's not as engaging as much of the rest of the series because far too much of it is a retread of DC's past projects - and DC is apparently blatantly unapologetic about it because he "borrows" or perhaps attempts to "pay homage" to (I don't know which) his past work with shot for shot restagings of it. I've lamented this in the past, so it will come as no surprise to long-time readers of the forum, but to me it certainly seems as if DC's motto was "If it worked once, use it again and again and again and..." What the man obviously failed to realize, though, was that might work for audiences unfamiliar with his work, but it's a huge disservice to those who are because they don't even have to actually watch to know what the next shot will be and what it will lead to afterward. I mean, OMG - as an example, just watch Ep #2 and then watch DC's version of Dracula - some of the similarities will be beyond striking. [sad3] And the reason I say DC was blatantly unapologetic about it is because he actually screened his past work looking for ways to incorporate it into this ep of the '91 series - and as I mentioned in the discussion for the second half of the pilot, Hall Powell and Bill Taub were hired specifically for that purpose...

The best thing to happen to the '91 series was that Linda Campanelli, Shelly Moore, Matt Hall and William Gray were brought on board after the miniseries eps were developed because, with both DC and Steve Feke having wanted blood, gore and violence to predominate, and with DC's preference for all of that over character, it's quite sad to think what the '91 series might have been had DC and Feke had their way unchallenged.

All that being said, though - what is fascinating is that when it comes to reviews of the miniseries that expressed a preference for one night over the other, several picked the second night (meaning Eps #2 and #3) over the first (meaning the pilot). I can perhaps see that when it comes to Ep #3 (though that discussion is for next week), but to me it's not really the case with Ep #2. But then, we're probably talking about reviewers who were not so familiar with DC's work as to recognize the shot for shot restagings for what they were. So, unlike me and others like me, they saw Ep #2 with an unclouded perspective.

And while we're on the subject of downsides - though this has nothing to do with the ep itself - it struck me again how unfortunate it is for those who are only able to see the series on DVD - particularly when it comes to the actors' close-ups. So much can be conveyed in a close-up - but with a full quarter of the original framing completely missing in Sony's misguided effort to falsely create a widescreen appearance, too much of their work can often go unseen...

But enough of the downside, let's focus on the interesting aspects of this ep:

I love how Chuy Elizondo's cinematography picks up seamlessly from Dietrich Lohmann's work in the pilot.

Even though the romantic relationship between Vicki and Barnabas isn't really touched on in this ep, it's interesting that they made a point of showing Vicki doodling Josette's name on a pad to establish that it isn't far from Vicki's mind.

There's no avoiding the fact that this series wholly embraces the vampire bite as sex act. I remember that at the time the series was in production DC often commented in interviews that it was his intent to play up the sex angle and he was pleased whenever women in the screening room swooned because he knew they'd gotten it right. Well, they certainly went full tilt for the orgasmic angle - and there's probably no better example of that than in this ep when it comes to Michael T. Weiss and his ecstatic eye fluttering as Daphne attacks him.

And while we're still in that vein, Joe must have really been drained for him not to have shown any sign of movement for so long. I mean, there's definitely one type of movement that virtually every male in Joe's age range displays when he's sleeping and it's completely involuntary. But perhaps Joe's blood supply had yet to be fully recouped for that particular movement to take place.

It's amazing where a certain characterization may set one's mind to wondering. For example, does anyone besides me suspect that if Carolyn had been in Daphne's place, and it was she who needed Joe and Deputy Harker to "look after her," the men wouldn't have been taking turns merely reading in a chair - there may have been a full-fledged menage a trois going in that room!

I definitely get a kick out of how Willie hides his face as Julia opens Barnabas' coffin.

I love Julia's smile at the end of the ep - everything is falling completely into place for her.

And finally, there have been a few remarks that Barnabas doesn't seem sympathetic, but I don't honestly think he's actually supposed to be at this point. I mean, what has he done to elicit much sympathy? Beating and killing don't exactly make for sympathetic acts. But characters can be interesting, even fascinating, without being sympathetic. Plenty of such characters exist. Personally, even at this point I find Barnabas eminently watchable - particularly in a What-Will-He-Do-Next sort of way (even when, thanks to DC, I have some idea of what he's going to do). And the thing is that this ep is only the third installment in a thirteen installment story arc. In a well thought out arc, characters evolve over time and through circumstance and experience. Barnabas will be no different - particularly once the Campanelli, Moore, M. Hall and Gray (and John Boorstin) team become involved.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Gothick on September 28, 2008, 10:44:04 PM: MB, your comments about Joe Haskell's lack of "involuntary" movement while sleeping gave me quite a giggle. Thanks for the fun--it 's been a rather draggy weekend otherwise.

Am I imagining it or is there a scene coming up where we get to see Michael T. Weiss naked from behind? Ah, a charming county Derry Air *wink*

G.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 29, 2008, 08:43:14 AM: I will be screen caputring pictures from ever ep! :) And I LOVED YOUR POST MB! It was nice to see a full review. I know you don't have time for this stuff often but thank you. I am hoping tomorrow!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: KMR on September 29, 2008, 08:00:23 PM: Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on September 28, 2008, 10:10:25 PM
And while we're on the subject of downsides - though this has nothing to do with the ep itself - it struck me again how unfortunate it is for those who are only able to see the series on DVD - particularly when it comes to the actors' close-ups. So much can be conveyed in a close-up - but with a full quarter of the original framing completely missing in Sony's misguided effort to falsely create a widescreen appearance, too much of their work can often go unseen...

I actually cancelled my preorder of the DVD set on Amazon when word first came out that it was in widescreen. But I finally bought a copy a few months ago when I found it at Target for $20 (with a "free" copy of DARK ANGEL Season 1 thrown in).

I'm now sorry I didn't go ahead and buy it earlier, because truthfully it is not nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be (well, at least in my opinion...) I haven't watched the MPI tapes or my off-the-air tapes from the original broadcast in many, many years. But except for a small handful of shots, the widescreen cropping actually creates a pleasing composition. It's almost like it was originally shot with the intention of using a widescreen matte on the image. Only a few closeups are just a bit too tight, throughout the entire series. The vast majority of shots look like correctly framed widescreen shots.

The complaints about the day-for-night shots, however, are right on the mark. One remedy for that is to just take it for granted that super-intense moonlight (no matter what phase the moon is in) is normal in this parallel universe where Maine has palm trees. Sit back and enjoy...
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on September 29, 2008, 09:24:13 PM: Sadly, though, the series was never meant to be seen with the framing cropped the way it is on the DVD set with a full quarter of the original 4:3 standard aspect ratio cropped off. And what's really galling is that HD 16:9 widescreen masters do indeed exist for the '91 series. They and not the framing on the DVDs are the way the series was designed to be seen in widescreen - and they would have added fully a third of extra, never before seen image to every frame - but Sony, in their ultimate insanity, chose to butcher the 4:3 masters rather than use the 16:9 masters for the DVD transfer.

And for those who may have missed it the first time around, here's how Darren explained what was mistakenly done to the scene from this ep between Daphne and Barnabas:
Quote from: Darren Gross on January 25, 2007, 11:31:14 PM
The color problem is essentially this: several scenes that were shot day-for-night (ie: during the day, but with filters used and an effort to avoid shadows cast by the sun, and tweaking in the film color-timing later) and are supposed to have a somewhat dim, heavily bluish look to them, to simulate night-time sequences. The tech services department that color-timed the HD transfers, were clearly unaware of how the day-for-night sequences are supposed to look and made them look as if they occur in broad daylight, on a sunny afternoon. So, you'll have a sequence where Daphne gets up from her bed and leaves the room at night (studio filmed) and meets and is bitten by Barnabas on a nice, sunny day.

Incidentally, a few clips of what the Daphne/Barnabas scene is supposed to look like can be seen in the preview video in this post:
Quote from: Watching Project 2 on September 26, 2008, 02:00:02 AM
Previews
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: michael c on September 29, 2008, 10:02:48 PM: nelson brings up an intersting point that i never would have thought about...embalming.

through the process of embalming isn't all the blood drained from the deceased and their internal organs removed?wouldn't this remove the potential for the,shall we say undead,to crave additional blood?also since the vampire angle was already dangling about at the time of daphne's death why wasn't she cremated?

and as nelson mentioned,why was a newly created tomb already covered in cobwebs?

as i said before i find the plotting of this to be mystifying.what was dan curtis going for exactly?except for that "other" show i'm unfamiliar with vampire lore.i've never seen 'buffy' or 'angel' or anything.but isn't it typical that an air of mystery surrounds the goings on for awhile before the presence of vampires is revealed towards the climax?in other vampire tales is it typical for everyone to know about it so early on?this doesn't seem to leave alot of places to go.

i'm going to try to phrase this carefully because "this" show has provided us with such sketchy outlines i'm watching and going on alot of assumptions that i'm not sure have actually been spelled out for us here.

for instance,i'm watching under the assumption that victoria winters is an orphan uncertain of her identity and thus is traveling to collinsport to get information.however except for a few words that imply that during her opening voiceover has that been spelled out here?is it established that liz and roger are siblings or am i just assuming that because i know the story?i'm assuming that family's wealth comes from the ownership of a cannery and other fishing enterprises but is that even suggested here?who is carolyn's father and why are there so few servants in this place?i'm filling in all those blanks,again,because i'm so familiar with this story as a whole but what did new viewers to this series think about these things?
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on September 29, 2008, 10:29:31 PM: In general terms from my experience I'd say it's never good to assume anything that hasn't been established on screen in some way - in fact it can often be dangerous. ;)

As far as Elizabeth and Roger being brother and sister goes, as Midnite pointed out, one specific reference so far to that was cut from the NBC airing (and thus the DVD), though it was restored on the MPI VHS. (I'm not even sure it's been established that Elizabeth is David's aunt. [hdscrt]) But as to what personal info we may learn down the line about any of the characters or the family, it's been so long since I've watched the '91 series that I don't honestly remember...

Quote from: mscbryk on September 29, 2008, 10:02:48 PM
i've never seen 'buffy' or 'angel' or anything.but isn't it typical that an air of mystery surrounds the goings on for awhile before the presence of vampires is revealed towards the climax?

Certainly not on Buffy or Angel or even any other vampire themed series in recent memory. The existence and involvement of real vampires is established from pretty much the get go.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Gothick on September 29, 2008, 10:52:21 PM: As I think MB commented in an earlier post, the pacing of the story in the early episodes of this show mirrors the pacing in some other DC ventures, notably hoDS and the Jack Palance Dracula movie. Not just the pacing, but in some cases whole stretches of dialogue and shot set-ups were copied near-verbatim from those earlier works.

I think by 1990-91, the vampire genre had reached a point where the old structure that was exploited so brilliantly in earlier shows--of having suspense building around a series of mysterious attacks and an undiagnosed "illness" suffered by a heroine--ultimately traced back to the chapters of Dracula about Lucy's "illness"--was perceived as no longer really working. Besides hoDS, in 1970 the feature film Count Yorga, Vampire quickly established that vampires were on the loose, and the "theme" of the movie was not so much one of suspense as horror created by a sequence of luridly constructed vampire set-pieces. This re-tooling of the genre had been pioneered by Hammer studios in their early films (Horror of) Dracula, Brides of Dracula, and Kiss of the Vampire.

Between the early 1970s and 1990, you had the explosion of the Anne Rice phenomenon, as well, which radically changed the face of the gothic vampire genre. So, bear that in mind when evaluating these shows.

From what little I have read about the behind the scenes stuff at NBC, when it came to the horror quotient in the story, the studio suits wanted more, faster, harder. Dan Curtis never needed much encouragement to up the ante in the "blood, carnage and fangs" department. (Or, as Grayson once said lovingly, "Dan has a real genius for SPOOK.")

I look forward to the critique of the next episode--if memory serves (my single viewing of it was on VHS ca. 1997), they REALLY let the blood spatter in that one.

G.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: michael c on September 29, 2008, 11:13:13 PM: i'm still confused on this point.

i realize that in most modern vampire tales that we,the viewer,and certain key characters know from the outset of the existence of vampires.

but does absolutely everyone know about them.the way this series has been set up by episode three everyone in collinsport knows all about them.information that would presumably get out to the rest of the world instantly.

my only other experience with shows that dealt with the supernatural or paranormal was the "x-files" and generally it was just mulder,scully and a few others who were "on" to the exact nature of the proceedings.the rest of the world remained,in effect,outside the know.

that's why this series has me so puzzled.i don't understand the way it's plotted at all.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on September 29, 2008, 11:20:44 PM: Quote from: mscbryk on September 29, 2008, 11:13:13 PM
but does absolutely everyone know about them.the way this series has been set up by episode three everyone in collinsport knows all about them.information that would presumably get out to the rest of the world instantly.

The thing is, and it most often seems to be the same regardless of the show, many if not most of the people in the location where the vampires exist know of them or soon know of them, but the location seems to remain its own world cut off from the rest of the world, so the rest of the world doesn't know about them.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 29, 2008, 11:32:05 PM: In 1991 a I instantly knew Roger and Elizabeth were brother and sister. I knew Carolyn was here daughter. I just figured Victoria was hired and they the reason she came was because they were probably paying her an enormous salary!! I really had no problem following it! However that is just me. I had never experienced TV like this in my 14 years. No TV show EVER captured me like Dark Shadows did! :) I guess since I wasn't exposed to a lot of vampire shows (were there any?) or Dan's work on Dracula or other movies my consciousness or unconsciousness had nothing to compare it to. And to be quite frank, I think I am glad for that. I retract my wish being around in the 60's 70's, although I would travel there if we're offered a sojourn through time!! I am sure DS came along at a time in my life when it was supposed to and the stars were aligned!!

My review is coming up later! Bout time eh? Here are some pics!!!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Watching Project 2 on September 29, 2008, 11:43:53 PM: (http://www.dsboards.com/1991/91series-m2.jpg)

And here are the commercial bumpers for Ep #2 that give a peek at what's to come in the next act:

[video]
http://www.dsboards.com/1991/0114_Bumper_1.swf

(To control the play of the video, right-click on it and use the controls.)
[/video]

[video]
http://www.dsboards.com/1991/0114_Bumper_2.swf

(To control the play of the video, right-click on it and use the controls.)
[/video]

(More to come...)
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: michael c on September 30, 2008, 12:04:18 AM: thanks mysterious,

i'm genuinely not trying to be difficult.i'm just unfamiliar with shows of this nature.

on a high note i really like julia,carolyn and maggie quite alot.the more i see the more i like.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on September 30, 2008, 12:10:12 AM: Quote from: mscbryk on September 30, 2008, 12:04:18 AM
i'm genuinely not trying to be difficult.

I didn't think you were. [ghost_smiley]

I guess seemingly mostly every character knowing that real vampires exist is just an accepted premise in most vampire shows nowadays - and to someone who doesn't follow them, I can see where that might be surprising.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 30, 2008, 06:03:44 AM: I think I am cursed. Okay I typed it out and hit enter and it kept going and going and nothing came up. I tried to backtrack and it was blank. I am so beyond pissed at the moment I cannot try and do this again. I typed forever! I have a hard time editing myself when I review this or anything I enjoy! I think I am gonna type it on a software program and then copy and paste it here so I can save it as I go incase something like this happens again. Does anyone know how to past here, because the regular right click copy and paste doesn't seem to work! At least I have till Thurs.

Aggravated! [ghost_angry]

I will try again tomorrow!

Taeylor
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Midnite on September 30, 2008, 04:10:06 PM: Quote from: Taeylor Collins
the regular right click copy and paste doesn't seem to work!

Right click was disabled. But there are other options:
Quote from: Midnite on March 23, 2007, 06:45:50 AM
Highlight the text, and in your browser menu click Edit, then select Copy (later, Paste). They keyboard shortcuts are Ctrl+C to copy and Ctrl+V to paste.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 30, 2008, 07:03:43 PM: Thank you my darling dear! Now to find my browser menu! LOL I cannot seem to find that!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Midnite on September 30, 2008, 07:20:28 PM: In the toolbar that's (probably) across the top of your screen, the menu is usually uppermost in some browsers and contains words like File, Edit, etc. If not, the keyboard shortcuts will work if you're running a version of Windows.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on September 30, 2008, 07:28:15 PM: If you're using [puke] IE 7, it's probably also worth mentioning that, in Microsoft's infinite wisdom (NOT!! ::)), they've moved the copy/paste links to the "Page" drop down menu that appears on the far right side of the third line, between the print icon and the "Tools" drop down menu.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Taeylor Collins on September 30, 2008, 08:58:05 PM: Okay thank you guy and girl, I figured it out with your awesome help. OT: MB do you recommend a different browser? I don't really like this one that much either!

As always, your help is so greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on September 30, 2008, 09:07:18 PM: We highly recommend Firefox. Go to Firefox Web Browser (http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/) to download the installation file. And during installation you can import all your IE bookmarks so you won't lose anything. [ghost_smiley]
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Taeylor Collins on October 01, 2008, 03:48:42 AM: Dark Shadows
Episode # 2
Original Airdate: Feb. 14 1991

I consider this one of the best openings themes to any show I have EVER seen! I love it! I really miss the fact that today's television has chosen many times to omit a theme. Themes are fun or I am old one?! Which is it?

As Victoria does her voice over I really enjoy all the establishing shots of Collinwood and its rooms. I also enjoy a particular part of Victoria's voice over! “ …But fate has also sent a third uninvited guest, one who has swept through the once quiet village, and come to Widow's Hill where they say cries of sorrow have been heard for centuries. Tonight they will be heard again, for the third visitor is……death!” It's not so much the line as the way Joanna Going so brilliantly delivered it. It sends chills up my spine. I vividly remember these episodes and I am instantly taken back to being 14! Only 17 years ago! It's a grand feeling! There is one of two bloopers I noticed in this episode. It is possibly due to the fact that it is widescreen when this wasn't the print to use!! The first one is the last establishing shot of The Great Hall with the fireplace. To the left of the screen you can see a figure which appears to be Ben Cross in his black outfit which had a black turtleneck that was from the prior ep when he was obtaining furnishings from Elizabeth to adorn The Old House with. One piece was from Isaac Collins a small line which I loved hearing, hinting at the families past!

I love the close up of the cross which dissolves into the close up of The Black Goddess Barbara Steele. Great shot! I especially like the lighting in this scene and I love the chemistry (as comrades) between Michael and Julia. Stefan and Barbara work well together. I love when BS cocks her eyebrow! She is fierce!

Micheal T. Weiss is on fire hot!! WHEW I remember at 14 my body being set ablaze and anticipating his shirtless scenes. Of course I was deeply in the closet then. Thanks MTW for helping me through those years. ;) Love your stubble.

Again I have to compliment Robert Cobert and his amazing score. It keeps me entranced!! Vampire Barnabas: I don't like the snarling (Thanks Dan) but I do like the teeth and the contacts. The snarling is campalicious!! LOL He is creepy looking when he isn't snarling like something lunatic! Okay the second blooper is when Daphne ascends the steps again to the left you can see what appears to be a man jumping out of view; I figure he is running a fog machine or a grip? I personally think the scene between Barney and Daphne is hot. I love when he wraps those arms around her waist! I love the piano on the track during this scene as they find Daphne! I remember reading Ben Cross saying in an up and coming scene he got quite horny!” I liked his honesty! The vampire bite is very sexual and sexy to me. I guess I am a trollop!

I saw a rainbow since it was obviously sunny on that production day. It was pretty. Great shots and wonderfully directed by Dan Curtis. I like the shots from behind. Keep in mind I hadn't seen his previous work so I watched this with a fresh perspective! It looks like there is a Horatio Collins buried behind the preacher! Anyone? I love how this scene ends and the next one begins with the cut from the tomb to Julia's fridge. VERY NICE! I love this scene with Julia and Woodard. I love when Julia flicks her pen as she says, well that's going to be a very difficult theory to prove Micheal!” B Steele is the best and you will hear me praise her often. Thank you Dan Curtis for pulling her out of retirement! I think she is perfectly cast.

My favorite shot in this episode and possibly in the whole series is as the camera sweeps past the old pool, with the fog, and the atmosphere, and the urgency! Lovely cinematography! Kudos to the production team! I actually find the scene with Vaphne very creepy. She looks scary! I love that she had a makeover with BIG HAIR and a lovely blowy gown!! ;) I do have to wonder why Barnabas made Daphne a vamp? Did he get carried away? It only seemed like it drew more attention!
I personally thing the lack of emotion in the table scene is the fact that everyone is in shock. For a minute imagine this all happening to you and your family in a span of a few weeks. I think I would be a bit numb. I think JGL is good and his scene with MTW is sweet.

The music at the table and the mausoleum was creepsville! WHEW. Chills!! I love when Joe is bitten. I love how MTW plays it. He truly does act like he is in ecstasy. And sex=ecstasy for most people who enjoy it! ;) I have to admit the thought of being bitten by a male vampire (no offense gal) is very erotic to me!

Ely Pouget is wonderful as Maggie. I love her! I love Maggie’s psychic abilities. I like the thought of a good force to help balance out the evil forces at Collinwood! It was also a clever way to take a character and ingratiate her in the people's lives of Collinwood. I love Maggie's studio! Maggie's headlights are a shiny full steam ahead. WOW! It seems a bit racy for ’91, however nothing compared to shows today! “And I'll tell ya something else. This is only the beginning!” Ely Pouget delivers that line wonderful.
Barnabas looks dashing as he comes to Collinwood. The piece on the table of the man working (?) is really lovely! It looks familiar for some reason though. The color red really sets this set off and makes it look so regal.

I love the scene with Elizabeth, Roger, Barnabas and Dr. Julia Hoffman. They all look good and the scene is lit beautifully! I have to admit though I agree with Nelson Barnabas doesn't seem very sincere. He is very guarded that is for sure. I love the faces Barbara Steele pulls when she sees Barnabas in the mirror or doesn't! ;) I don't think it's that big a deal about her seeing him in that big ole honking mirror. Julia just happened to be there in that place and time.

Everyone else was in shock and speaking with Barnabas!! I think Elizabeth almost seems CHARMED by Barnabas! That look when he kisses her hand. Maybe this is a power that isn't explored, but he possibly has the whole town under his spell? “But that still leaves one very important question unanswered. Who is the one who did this to her!? Julia snorts back at Barnabas. I love the way BS moves her head and her facial expressions!

Shirtless MTW! ::THUD:: I like his perfectly coifed hairy chest. He is sexy and I think he plays Joe well. I am glad hair is making a come back! ;) I like manliness!! LOL Sorry I am sure that was way too much information! BACK ON POINT: Again the oboe on the track pulls me deeper into the story. I love the shot of MTW walking toward Daphne and how the light shines upon his abs and then hits his face. AGAIN the lighting was phenomenal on this show! You don't see this kind of look on TV anywhere.

Love the circle pan around Julia's laboratory as she concedes “At sunset I shall confront the monster in his liar!” And BS delivers the line perfectly. I love when Julia jumps when Willie catches her at The Old House. It reminded me of someone else, but I can't think of who it is! I LIVE for the authority Julia commands. She is going do what she set out to do, by GOD!! Julia isn't having it. She is over it. She is in the position of power! She just keeps traipsing down the steps! Poor Willie! “Let go of me WILLIE” Julia instructs him with such ferocious grandeur! This was such a highly stylized show and the following shot of Barnabas coffin room shows it. I love the low shot of Julia stalking her way to the coffin. She must have timed her arrival perfect as he was waking up! I read that this scene was the one in which BC tested for the role. I can see why he won it. He really sold this material and made me feel as if Barnabas was truly tortured by the cross, not only physically but emotionally and mentally!! I love the fact that Barnabas vampirism was caused by magic but that through that magic it caused a rearranging of his body chemistry and construction. I think this is what has to be taken into account when you try to figure out embalming and all of that. It's magic, it doesn't matter what is done to the body as it is reanimated through black magic. The ending is where I really start to warm up to Barnabas and truly feel he doesn't want to be a vampire!! Barbara Steele and Ben Cross were fantastic in these scenes and I loved the closing shot of Julia~~~satisfied!!

B+ Only because of :

1.   Julia's confrontation
2.   MTW hot body
3.   And that wonderful shot of the camera sweeping by the pool!
4.   Julia's discovery!

PS. I really need to try and edit myself!!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: arashi on October 02, 2008, 03:30:45 PM: Since everyone has made some fantastic observations already, I'll not repeat them.

First off "Deputy Jonathan Harker" never caught that before. *headdesk* Cute.

I love Barbara Steele. She is fantastic as Julia. She's a very strong character, very smart, totally believable.

Re: Professor Woodard - I found the "All right Julia, I'm going to go to my cottage now." Line a bit odd, wouldn't you just say, "I'm heading home?" Unless he's staying somewhere else?

Did Barnabas make Joe fall asleep? That was the impression I got. Can vampires really manipulate people they not only haven't bitten, but who aren't even looking at them at the time? The scene where Daphne walks out into the night I thought was effectively creepy, but the vampire make-out scenes I always found over the top. I tend not to swoon so much as roll my eyes right out of their sockets. The amount of blood splatter on Daphne's body was a bit ridiculous, yes I understand they were ramping up the gore factor, but watching a lot of forensic science shows (the real ones, not CSI) I had to wonder about blood spatter patterns and how they were placed. Arterial spray doesn't account for most of it... uh, but I'll stop nitpicking.

I was watching this last Friday night with a friend, and we both commented on the "Yea, though I walk through the valley....." favorite psalm theme in TV funerals. Apparently that's everyone's favorite. I think I would pick something a little less morbid if I had to. Poor Willie standing there bedraggled in the rain. He knows he's partly responsible, and must feel guilty about it, but it's never played upon in any manner. Different characters need to be on screen I guess. Daphne's poofed out vampire hair is hysterical. I made the same comment about being incredulous that they buried her in that.

I'll agree with others in that I generally enjoyed the pilot episode much more than this one. Much better atmosphere. Looking forward to episode 3!
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Gothick on October 02, 2008, 04:26:31 PM: Is this the episode where Julia has her line about the "Professor being a bit dotty"? That line just makes me sca-REAM! That and the clenched-jaw enunciation of "I have a great deal of WORK to do" where the word work is pronounced "wuhhkk." Gotta love Barbara Steele!

I remember a certain show in which a certain very hunky male vampire seemed to have been buried in hospital pajamas. Later, they switched so he had been buried in a flannel shirt and what I think were work trousers. Ah, our vampires and their little wardrobe malfunctions! Maybe the mortician for Daphne decided he wanted her corpse to have a luscious glam-goth look to it. (I saw a friend of mine at a gathering recently whose specialty is hairdos for corpses--he works at a mortician's).

cheers! G.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Watching Project 2 on October 03, 2008, 05:00:00 AM: And here is the commercial bumper showing a preview for the first act of Ep #3:

[video]
http://www.dsboards.com/1991/0114_Bumper_3.swf

(To control the play of the video, right-click on it and use the controls.)
[/video]
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Taeylor Collins on October 03, 2008, 05:12:42 AM: Hey Gothick. I am about sure that Barbara Steele[spoiler] goodness is coming up in our next episode and subsequent discussion! :)[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: tragic bat on March 30, 2010, 11:05:35 PM: I didn't really understand, while guarding her, why Joe didn't just get in bed and sleep next to Daphne (and I don't mean in an erotic way at all)--surely he then would notice if she moved around or got up, if anything happened to her? I guess they might have been made uncomfortable by the deputy, but he could have waited outside the door or window instead. Obviously their arrangement wasn't good because Daphne got away.

I have to admit I fast-forwarded through much of this episode, as so much of it was verbatim lines/scenes borrowed from DC's past films. Daphne Collins surely could have been given a better story--but she was just the worst dressed of the bunch and then died in a totally stereotypical way. But apparently she was very religous from what was said at the funeral? Maybe they could have incorporated that into her character. The way vampires are revealed and spoken of here is definitely not evocative, and more suited to an end-game scenario than just the beginning.

I am grateful that the episode did move beyond the gore of Daphne's death eventually and show Julia's boldness.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Taeylor Collins on April 05, 2010, 07:51:57 AM: Great to see you ressurecting these threads TB! ;)
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Lydia on April 06, 2010, 06:22:27 AM: Quote from: tragic bat on March 30, 2010, 11:05:35 PM
I didn't really understand, while guarding her, why Joe didn't just get in bed and sleep next to Daphne (and I don't mean in an erotic way at all)--surely he then would notice if she moved around or got up, if anything happened to her? I guess they might have been made uncomfortable by the deputy, but he could have waited outside the door or window instead. Obviously their arrangement wasn't good because Daphne got away.
I don't remember this episode (or any episode of this series) clearly, but if Daphne was regarded as being ill, then it might have been considered bad form to get in bed with an invalid. But you're right, Joe should have done it anyway, though I don't think it would have been effective. Somehow Daphne would have managed to get to Barnabas, despite whatever obstacles might have been placed in her way.
Title: Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Ep #02
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on July 12, 2011, 03:08:00 PM: Apparently some people love them:

MuckyPuppets
Watching 90's Dark Shadows. God I love vampires with big hair
3 hours ago

[ghost_wink]

Though Daphne is hardly the only example of getting a big hair transformation after rising as a vampire. I just recently rewatched the original Fright Night (to get ready for the new version) and the same happens in it as well...