DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
Members' Mausoleum => Calendar Events / Announcements Archive => Calendar Events / Announcements '24 I => Calendar Events / Announcements '08 II => Topic started by: borgosi on August 07, 2008, 03:36:11 PM
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I just went to the IMDB and going by them the youngest actor or crew member that was at the fest, from the original show, was a very young 63. The oldest, and there were two this age was 84, or will be this year. The idea that any of these people would want to even show up for a fest, for a show that they get paid nothing for the sale of is a credit to them. IMHO every fan should be extremely greatful that anyone from a show that ended 37 years ago, and pays no royalities, were ever care if they watched or not. And I know many fans are extemely greatful but...
There were many people that that seemed to enjoy complaining about every aspect of the fest. From the lines, to the content of the shows, to an actor charging for his autograph ( the money went to help animals ), to fans that wanted to take a few minutes to talk with an actor while getting an autograph. If you can think of it, I heard someone complain about it.
David Selby does an except from a show about Lincoln and fans complain that today's politics go included in it. Keep in mind that this is a subject he cares so much about that he took the time to write a book about it, a book that has received some very good reviews. I'm glad that David wanted to share something that is this important to him with us even if I don't agree with his politics. I stood in line for hours to get his autograph, I'm happy to have done it, with a guy that claimed to have been to over twenty fest. Everytime someone would take the time to try and connect with David for just a few minutes he would start complaining. He would say that we should have to just hand David something, have him sign and move on. If that's all the actors were allowed to do I don't think they'd go to many of this things. What would be the point? If that's all they're going to do then why not just give them a stack of photos to sign, then have the fans walk by as the photos are handed out? As a fan I want to be able to connect with the actors, I want to be able to look into their eyes and tell them what I know they have heard a thousand times before, "I'd run home from school..., you're my favorite, etc. Everyone that stands in line for any of these actors should be able to do that without having to listen to someone complain about it.
This fest is my second but I've wanted to attend for many years. I'm the kind of fan that has not only bought even DS dvd but I also buy every movie and TV show that a cast or crew member has worked on, good or bad, movies like "Blood Bath" with Jerry Lacy and "Satan In High-Heels" with Grayson Hall. Even the actors in these movies want to forget them. Knowing how big of a DS fan that I am and that this is just my second fest I know that for every one of us that attends there are thousands that don't get to. We are lucky to be able to go to these fest. We are lucky that actors want to attend a fest for a show that ended 37 years ago. If an actor, that hasn't acted in years is asked "what have you been doing the last few years" tells us about the new business that they are involved in, we should be happy that they tells us anything. They would be justified in says that they don't act anymore and that part of their life is private. Maybe it's because this is only my second fest but when Lara Parker tells me about her new grandchild or when Roger Davis tells me about his land devolopement business I feel like I have been let behind the charaters and into the real person and I'm greatful for it. It makes me feel like they care about us and what we think on some level.
Now maybe none of the people that I heard complain at the fest come here, I really don't know, but if they do, and if they read this, I hope that if they go to another fest, of anykind, that they might think before they complain and just maybe they will understand they are very lucky to be there at all.
If you went and then after you returned home, you came to this site or some other site and complained about this thing or that thing that the actors did, understand that all of these people could be retired. I'm thinking they don't need the money or sore hands from signing for hours on end. If I set down and signed my name for one hour I'd be tired of it. I'm sure they could spend this part of their lives with their kids and grandkids and never feel bad about it. So if you write on any web-site what this or that actor said or did, write it with the understanding that they could come here and read it, and that enough complaining and one day the only ones attending a DS fest could be the fans.
OK, I'm off my soap box. I hope I didn't offend anyone. I just want every new fan or old fan that gets to that first fest to enjoy it as much as I did my first. I want the actors to know how greatful we are and for them to come back for as long as they can. I'd be happy to attend a fest with the Dorrie Kavanaugh, David Jay, James Hall, Florence Stanley, Carolyn Groves, or Rosemary McNamara or anyone else that worked on the show, and I'd be just s greatful to them.
That's all I have to say about that.
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RIGHT ON!
The actors are friendly & approachable, they desrve OUR thanks!
And hearing Selby talk about his politics gives him more
dimension as a person and lets us know who he really is~~I'm all for that!
I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who collects movies featuring DS actors, I have more than thirty!
Here's a few:
Race With the Devil (Lara Parker)
Save the Tiger (Lara & Thayer David)
Savages (Thayer David & Chris Pennock)
Frances (Chris Pennock)
Play It Again Sam and Blood Bath (Jerry Lacy)
The Great Gatsby and Last Days of Patton (KL Scott)
Suspiria, Scarlet Street, Woman in the Window, Father of the Bride, Woman on the Beach, Secret Beyond the Door,
(Joan Bennett)
The Minx (Robert Rodan)
Pretty Poison (Clarice Blackburn)
Seizure, The Devil's Daughter) Frid
Joe (Dennis Patrick)
Willy Wonka (Denise Nickerson)
Daughters of Darkness (John Karlen)
Scandalize My Name (Alexandra Moltke, director)
Making Love, Satan's School For Girls, Death at Love House
(Kate Jackson)
A Wedding (Virginia Vestoff)
Satan in High Heels, Night of the Iguana, Gargoyles, Polly Magoo (Grayson)
Ryan's Hope (10 episodes with Nancy Barrett, from Soap Net)
Whew!
David
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I have Brannigian only because KLS has one line in it! [ghost_smiley]
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[ghost_smiley]
Besides appearing on screen with legendary John Wayne in Brannigan, KLS shared screen time with Sir John Gielgud
in Providence, which I don't this is available.
Too bad, Kathryn's scene is a hoot!
"Ah, Miss Boon" thunders the 75 year old Sir John to a prim, proper KLS. "How delightfully erotic we're looking today!"
Oh, and I also have two with Mr. Selby:
Up the Sandbox & Grave Secrets
David
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Yes, I have those as well, and Selby in "Touched By An Angel" as Lincoln.
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I think it's wonderful that the actors participate in the Fests. The experiences I've had have been pretty darn good, 'cept for the Tarrytown Halloweeny events, where the volunteers reminded me of Getstapo agents, who ushered all but the meekest of the meek into formation, and shouted absurdities. But that's another story.
I have been greeted with kindness and admiration for the drawings I had the actors sign, and yes - even Roger Davis was pleasant. I don't have a single unkind word to say about any of them.
I watched Jerry Lacy on YouTube thos morning - thank you all, whomever you are, for posting on YouTube - he was just wonderful, and everybody seemed to adore him. It was quite special.
You know, I tune into DS when I've had an especially yukky day at work, and by golly, it does me a world of good. The only thing missing are the Prell commercials and maybe the cigarette commercials. And Mike Douglas.
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Personally, I am very grateful to all these actors who show up and endure what are surely mostly the same questions for decades now. I have my own complaints about the Fest--mostly, its shrinking size which I hope will start to change after the new movie, but the length of lines are part of what makes the Festival what it is. If actors want to state their opinions, more power to them (I may or may not disagree, but surely that is beside the point). Myself, what I miss most (especially as compared to other cons) is enough activities in which to participate. Wouldn't a panel about writing DS fanfiction be a welcome idea? Or one about how DS themes ending up in other, later programs from Forever Knight to Supernatural and Passions or even Dante's Cove? Things like that...
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This was my first. I had a great time and meet many people. I am glad the crowd wasn't huge. I don't like large crowds.
The thing that I like is that they let people in that are challenged first. I really appreciate anyone who let me get in line or let me cut in front. I had a hard time standing and I could get up front so that I could see. Thank you all.
I wish things were not so crammed together. I had to miss thing to do other things. Maybe my second fest will be easier, though I may not be able to go to another one.
All the actors were very nice. They appreciate us, as we appreciate them.
Thanks again all.
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You know what I didn't like about it? That I wasn't there!
Gerard (Who's grateful that he got to attend one.)
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Myself, what I miss most (especially as compared to other cons) is enough activities in which to participate. Wouldn't a panel about writing DS fanfiction be a welcome idea? Or one about how DS themes ending up in other, later programs from Forever Knight to Supernatural and Passions or even Dante's Cove? Things like that...
I am gay as a 3 dollar bill but please NO Dante's Cove. The acting on that show is like nails scratching down a chalkboard. LOL I could excuse myself if clips were shown. LOL I am just half jokin'. JMO. Interesting ideas you have though. I think the Fest needs to revamp itself as well.
Taeylor
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Borgosi,
I'm glad you enjoyed yourself at the fest and you have every right to say so. I also have every right to say what I did, and did not, like about the fest.
Realize that most of the actors do get paid to be there by Jim, and get the money for the pictures they sell. They also get to bask in the limelight and adoration of their adoring fans... something most actors and athletes miss once they are no longer on center stage. I am not meaning to come across like I don't appreciate their efforts to be with us, I very much do, however, their reasons are not as noble overall as you are making it sound. With few exceptions, the actors that do go haven't had tremendously successful careers since DS went off the air and many owe their current income from books, fest appearances (not just DS but all sci-fi conventions) to DS so by continuing the promotion of it, they continue to support their own income, lifestyle and ego.
We all paid the fees to get into the fest and banquet, if applicable, and many of us paid for airfare to fly from one side of the country to the other, as well as the hotel stay. So there is a reasonable expectation to receive benefit for all that expense, time and effort to attend. And if I don't feel like I got my money's worth, I will always say so no matter what event it is I am attending.
With any performance, there will always be reviews... and not all reviews will be positive. I pointed out the things I liked about Burbank, just like I did Tarrytwon. And I pointed out those things I did not like about both. And they were both fair and accurate from where I was sitting.
Like I say, I'm glad you had a great time at the fest and4 I hope you enjoy any others you go to. I just don't look at it like I should thank them for being willing to spend a weekend with the "llittle people."
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I am gay as a 3 dollar bill but please NO Dante's Cove. The acting on that show is like nails scratching down a chalkboard.
Are you absolutely right! It was horrible! A friend of mine bought the first season (which was mercifully short) on DVD, watched the pilot and nothing more, and gave it to me. I watched the pilot, and nothing more. I still have the DVD set somewhere; I think I'm using it to hold up the float ball in my potty. Fred Phelps was more of a friend to gays than that lousy show.
Gerard
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i didn't attend this year's fest but i'll throw my two cents in anyways...
i always think it gets a bit treacly when we express "gratitude" for the actors who attend the festivals.this is a two way street as much as anything.
perhaps they too should be "gratefull" that there are fans out there so devoted to a forty year old soap opera,and the actors who starred in it,that we travel,at our own expense,hundreds if not thousands of miles to see them every year.most actors do not enjoy such loyalty.i've spent hundreds of dollars over the years on books,cd's,pictures and the like i might not have been particularly interested in but did so as a gesture of support for the actor involved.
i adore all our stars but as had been stated many(with david selby being a notable exception)have not had much in the way of big-time acting success since their days on d.s..i know it's not fair but it's true.and they are in the end professional actors who make decisions to do personal appearances based on a number of factors the same as any others do.many of them...kathryn leigh scott,diana millay,lara parker...have built businesses based on their time on the program.in the case of ms.millay this was only a few months.
so as i said,i love our actors and am indeed very pleased and "gratefull" that they attend this event each year but they also owe us such a debt of gratitude.
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Realize that most of the actors do get paid to be there by Jim, and get the money for the pictures they sell.
The DS actors do not get paid for their appearance at the festival (unless that has changed and I'm not aware of it). They get their expenses paid for. Most other conventions not only do the actors get paid a fee, they also sell their photos and autographs. Some even charge to have a photo taken with them!
Nancy
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We forget John Karlan, Kate Jackson and Louis Edmonds. Some have used it, and its benefits to go off and do other things. Theatre, Movies, Publishing, Music and Drama, not all of these were Dark Shadows related. Don't we all use the opportunities in life that we have to move onto different things.
I am sorry if I sound upset, not all performers go on to be famous. There are many that do not make a living at it but do it as a avocation. I love to draw and play music but I was never a professional. People that are in the Arts are just people as we are, and they put themselves out in different ways. They put themselves out there to make a difference or create something, even for just a short time. I am glad we have people in the arts. Every discipline can be an art.
Sorry if I hurt anybody. I wish I had the talent to just do music or art. Again I think they are grateful.
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You're right, you do have a right to your opinion.
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The DS actors do not get paid for their appearance at the festival (unless that has changed and I'm not aware of it). They get their expenses paid for.
We can pick the nits if you wish but getting all expenses paid for is getting paid to be there... plus selling their pics, books, CD's, DVD's and other such items. I was told at Tarrytown by someone working with the fest, not a volunteer, that a Betsy Durkins-type does not receive payment or even expenses but Frid, Parker, KLS, do receive expenses plus appearance fee. I'm not saying it is a great fee - although I would think Frid would command a decent package, just saying what someone, who should actually know, told me last year.
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I know most of the actors who attend the fests and have worked at the fests since 1986 and the appearance fees you are talking about don't exist to my knowledge. Frid doesn't command much at all and hasn't in all the years I've been with him at the fests. He's even bought his own meals rather than bill the fest on many occasions. The actors come to the fest enjoy being with the fans and seeing each other. Sure, they sell their stuff but unlike a lot of actors who attend other conventions, these DS actors ask for very little and could, in fact, ask for much more.
Nancy
We can pick the nits if you wish but getting all expenses paid for is getting paid to be there... plus selling their pics, books, CD's, DVD's and other such items. I was told at Tarrytown by someone working with the fest, not a volunteer, that a Betsy Durkins-type does not receive payment or even expenses but Frid, Parker, KLS, do receive expenses plus appearance fee. I'm not saying it is a great fee - although I would think Frid would command a decent package, just saying what someone, who should actually know, told me last year.
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I thought I would respond to the above comments with my own two cents. I've attended two fests (not this year.) I think much of what has been written above is true, even by those who seem to be disagreeing with each other. It is true that the stars sell their items, make money and have their expenses paid for to boot. Not a bad deal at all. So there is truth that the appearances, as someone said above, are not 100% "noble" and contain some self interest. It's not all out of the goodenss of their hearts. And as someone else said, we poor or middle class fans, have to pay a ton of money to get there, hotel, dvd's and lots of monetary support over the years. All true.
But on the other hand, my own experience has been that the DS actors are some of the nicest, most gracious and personable people you can ever meet. That's not something that can be faked. If they came across as only snobs who were doing it for the money, that would be one thing. But they don't. So I really think they're great people. If they were not making money would they still come because they just love us fans so much? I don't know, but the fests are great times. We should enjoy them for what they are.
Sally
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I didn't start this thread to start trouble. The fact is I have gotten years of pleasure from the works of art that these actors are in. If they never work again, I hope they do, I'm greatful to be given the chance to tell them "Thank You" and to shake their hands. I have only been to two DS fest and I've enjoyed both of them. If at some time in the future I stop enjoying them I'll quit going. I'll never go and complain about this little thing or that little or do anything knowning to prevent other fans from enjoying it. If the lines become too long, I won't stand in them. If I don't like what an actor has to say I won't listen. But I hope I never do anything to cause another fan to not enjoy the show.
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I didn't think you were trying to cause trouble, borgosi, and did not take it like that. I've gotten a lifetime of pleasure from the DS actor's efforts as well. I appreciate the talent and guts it takes to do what they do. But bad reviews are not a bad thing. How else will the fest know what they need to possibly improve upon to make future fests the best fests ever?
And all the actors are some of the nicest people I've met as well. I have met none that come across as overly pretentious or the like. When I critique, it is not for the purpose of sulking, it is for the purpose of future improvement. I did make the comment in my review that Burbank was my second, and last, fest. However, that would be true even if the Burbank fest had been a beginning to end orgasmic experience. I've seen and met all I would travel to see and meet now. If they held a fest in New Orleans, I might be there, but I don't see that one happening. I've kicked myself for many years by not going to the "Lion in Winter," Frid's one and only directorial outing in Milledgeville, GA when I was younger and had the chance. I had something else going on that day and figured I would catch him next time around - which there was no next time. So these last two fests made up for that error. I also got to visit two cities I had never been to before. I will be going back to both cities, but for the purpose of site-seeing. If I had it to do over again, I would still go to both Tarrytown and Burbank. I just don't feel the desire to repeat them now that I have done them.
No hard feelings, borgosi. I love a good debate and, after all, this would be a very dull board if we all agreed on everything ;)
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How else will the fest know what they need to possibly improve upon to make future fests the best fests ever?
If only it worked that way. But fans have been offering constructive criticisms for years and yet year in and year out the same sort of criticisms of the Fests crop up. It's basically a case at this point that if fans want to partake in Fest activities like, say, the autograph lines and the banquet, they just have to grin and bare the inconveniences in order to reap the rewards. (Though apparently the food at the banquets will never be one of the rewards. [ghost_cheesy])
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I didn't start this thread to start trouble. The fact is I have gotten years of pleasure from the works of art that these actors are in.
Oh I don't think you started anything other than debate. Unfortunately, sometimes, debate can come across with sounding more intense than the debator intends. That is often true in my case. [ghost_mad] [ghost_nowink] [ghost_tongue2]
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[ghost_grin]
I'll bet the banquet food is a considerable step up from
Denny's acroos the street from the Burbank Marriot!
David
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I'll bet the banquet food is a considerable step up from
Denny's acroos the street from the Burbank Marriot!
You would lose that bet! [ghost_cheesy]
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I'd opt for Denny's in a heart-beat.
nancy
I'll bet the banquet food is a considerable step up from
Denny's acroos the street from the Burbank Marriot!
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I was just about to post that, Darren. [ghost_grin]
In general, I've not had a problem with the banquet food, but as I already mentioned in my Fest report, I think vegetarian lasagna was a poor choice given the prevalence of allergies associated with this food. That was the one thing I didn't like about this year's Fest.
As for criticisms of the Festival in general, even if they don't serve to inspire management to make any changes, at least they can help new attendees understand what they're getting themselves into (with respects to lengthy lines, actors' temperaments, etc.) so that they can make decisions about which events to attend. I'm just grateful that we still have Festivals/DS Weekends at all.
ProfStokes
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Oh I don't think you started anything other than debate. Unfortunately, sometimes, debate can come across with sounding more intense than the debator intends. That is often true in my case. [ghost_mad] [ghost_nowink] [ghost_tongue2]
And we still love ya. [ghost_grin]
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I'd opt for Denny's in a heart-beat.
Yep. $6.99 for breakfast at Denny's is much better than the $14.99 at the hotel... and it tasted just as good.
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Ah, shucks. Thanks, Kajun. [ghost_smiley]
[And we still love ya. [ghost_grin]
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Well, some of us do.
As far as the banquets go. I don't think I've ever had a decent meal at the Fests. That's not to say that the company isn't appreciated. But, brother, those banquet meals stink. I would prefer a buffet style meal, though I bet that's out of the question, as far as Marriotts go.
I went to my very first Southern wedding here in Dixie. It was held at a Marriott. The wait staff rushed everything. The food was terrific, but when goiing for a second helping, there was none to be had. The wait staff rushed us through the service. Terrible thing. I am still wondering what they did with all that steak.
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I remember my first fest - I had been waiting in line for an autograph for over an hour. The hallway was hotter'n heck. Jim Pearson was making every attemp to soothe the fans, but to no avail. People were screaming at him. You have to realize that the folks who organize the fests work their asses off arranging this stuff. They go beyond their best. No, not every event works out the way it's planned, but it's pretty darn close. My last fest, I waited in line like everybody else. When I got to John Karlen, he asked me why I waited in line for so long, as I know him personally, and he said he would sign anything I wanted. Because of the experience. I wanted to experience what everybody else was. The fests are very personal. I feel fortunate to have met so many wonderful people. Gee whiz, if Nancy hadn't arrested me for wickedness in 2004, well, that's another story.
Enjoy the fests and all the folks you meet from across the globe. That's what I say, anyway.
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I agree 100%. If you will allow yourself you can meet some great people while in those lines. You're among more like minded people, when it comes to DS, than you even will be, take advantage it. You could find out the those long lines are a fun part of the fest.
As for what the "Stars" choose to talk about, I don't care if Roger Davis talk about land devolopment or if David Selby talks about the election or what. I've read every book that been written about DS, fiction and non-fiction. I don't think anyone of them will tell a story about the show that I haven't heard before somewhere. If they did that would be great but I don't think it happens much. For me it's about connecting when these people that were a very important part of my life as a child. Believe it or not but I learned some important life lessons from DS.
In the end, the reason I started this thread was because I don't want fans that have never been to get the wrong idea. Personally I'd reather talk about the good and forget about the bad. You can't change the bad, you don't enjoy it, so why make it an issue?
Remember this "Actors Act, Those That Can't Direct, Those That Can't Direct Become Critics" [ghost_smiley]
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IMHO. I really wish that the fest would perhaps acquire stars from the other DS incarnations. I would LIVE to see Joanna Going, Barbara Steele, or Lysette Anthony. I think it would even be great to get Alec Newman and/or Marley Shelton to attend. I just wonder if any of them have been asked? Alec Newman is working on the new audio dramas and got to be in Barney's shoes so I would love hear his take on the whole thing. I think it would inject new blood into the fest. I love all the regular "Originals"but they tell the same stories over and over. And before you same something, I am not throwing stones. How many NEW stories can you tell after 42 years??? I was introduced to DS by the 1991 series and I would BEND OVER BACKWORDS to get to a fest with those actors included as well. I plan to attend next year nevertheless, but I would still love to see some of the "other" DS stars. As always just some of my opinions and who knows maybe they have been asked but are unwilling to participate or unable.
PS I was watching Lara do a Question and Answer back in the 80's and she was ON FIRE. So much fun however, I know she has attend year in year out and I am sure it gets a bit old. These are merely suggestions take it with a grain of salt!
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I would love to meet Barbara Steele but not so much for DS. I grew up watching her classic horror movies. To tell the truth there are extremely few actors working today that I would care about meeting. I'd like to meet Jack Nicholson but he's also someone I grew up watching, in old AIP movies and such.
The "new" DS I kinda liked but nothing like the original. Maybe because I was a kid when the original was on and when the "new" DS came on I saw two or three shows then with to Gulf for part 1 of the Gulf War.
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OFF TOPIC: We all like what we like plain and simple. I just have affection for the show because it was my "FIRST" DS visual experience!! It's no different than you liking the original because it was your first DS experience!! I would love to meet Barbara Steele no matter what. She could talk about what she had for breakfast and I would love it. LOL I "PERSONALLY" thought still was one of the highlights from the new show. IF anyone knows me and reads my post's they know I AM IN LOVE with GH so don't start throwing stones at me!!! [ghost_nowink] I pretty much love DS in all forms. [spoiler]I have yet to see the 2004 pilot but I am quite certain I would like the pilot--minus the horrible ending and Blair Brown.[/spoiler] That may not be considered spoilery but I wanted to make sure!
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Well I'm not saying the new show was bad, only that when I think of it I think of sleeping on a tail-gate in the dessert with am M-16 and "gas" mask.
When I think of the original I think of Jr. high school, hanging out with friends, and learning about the 60's, if you know what I mean? You know mind expanding, flower power and all that? [ghost_smiley] They need a smiley with bloodshot eyes [ghost_smiley]. Just two very different times in my life, you know.
I do own the new show on DVD so it's not like I against it, and I look forward to seeing the new movie, I hope new movies.
And if I could I know I'd buy the 2004 pilot.
The Times They Are A Changing
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The idea that any of these people would want to even show up for a fest, for a show that they get paid nothing for the sale of is a credit to them. IMHO every fan should be extremely grateful that anyone from a show that ended 37 years ago, and pays no royalities, were ever care if they watched or not. And I know many fans are extemely grateful but...
I didn't know they didn't get paid, beyong plane fare and a room which I presume must be included. (I'm sparing eyes from reading whole thread.) Yes, complaining about guests would be almost unforgiveable in that case. I'd even go along with Roger Davis and real estate especially since he must need doctor money right now.
If anyone has complaints for the management, that's something else, they receive fans' money, though there's no profit involved, so I'd complain carefully and respectfully.
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Well the fest was $30 per person for all three days, half off for children 6 - 12. We know that some people didn't attend all three days but we'll go with $30.00 a person anyway. ShadowGram reported that 1200 fans were there for the three days. $30.00 times 1,200 people is 36,000. There were 12 stars attending, that's 3,000 per person. That doesn't go very far if you include room, board, and transportation. And that's without including paying all the people to work the fest, their room, board, and transportation, oh and I don't think they all work for free. And I sure the rooms to put the show on wasn't cheap.
Now I'm sure the dealers in the dealer's room were charged for their space but I don't think it would add up to much.
If they do get paid, it ain't much. [ghost_smiley]
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Well I'm not saying the new show was bad, only that when I think of it I think of sleeping on a tail-gate in the dessert with am M-16 and "gas" mask.
Thank you for your service, borgosi.
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You're very welcome.
But I must add that I went in because at the time I was out of work and my wife and I had just had our first child. In short I had to have a job, I wasn't "born on the fourth of July". I love America but that isn't why I went in, given a choice I wouldn't have.
I don't know if that makes a difference or not, or if it should. After typing it I think that maybe the message is that we should all remember that alot of the young people over there joined because they felt the same way. That they believed that they had no choice.
And maybe I should just shut up and stick to...
You are very welcome.
Greg
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Thank you for your service, borgosi.
Same here; thanks.
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You're very welcome as well.