DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '08 II => Topic started by: Taeylor Collins on July 10, 2008, 06:13:24 AM
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I have to admit I had a hard time warming up to AM. But watching the show lately I have enjoyed her more. To me Joanna Going was such a great Victoria. Of course in the 1991 remake she wasn't as naive as the original. She seemed to know a little more and thank the God's she didn't say "I DONT UNDERSTAND" all the time. I equally loved Barbara Steele, but had no trouble at all warming up to my favorite original actress GH!! BS was a little colder than the original, but she was an amazing Julia to me. I also liked Ben Cross but not as much as Frid. I also loved Jean Simmons.
In the flashback I LOOOOOOOOVED BS even more as Natalie. I like her Natalie better than GH's! I loved Joanna as Josette, which was a great way to go with the storyline. I ALWAYS thought Victoria should have been the reincarnation of Josette. Of course back in the original, the technology wasn't around. I loved ADRIAN PAUL as Jeremiah. And I loved Micheal T Weiss as Peter Bradford, much more than RD.
I may be a bit prejudice than I thought but I still welcome all future incarnations of DS. I want it to thrive when I am old and continue for generations to come!
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I have to admit, I've always been lukewarm towards the revival. [ghost_rolleyes]
I mean, Ben Cross was okay as Barnabas, but I never felt for him as much as I did for Jonathan. I didn't care for Barbara Steele, though, either as Julia or Natalie. And don't get me started on Jim Fyfe as Willie... [ghost_tongue]
However, there were two cast members from the new show that impressed me tremendously. First, Joanna Going. I thought she did a great job as both Vicki and Josette. [ghost_wink] And as you said, she was way more sharp than the post-Barnabas era Vicki of the original. (In all fairness to Alexandra Moltke, her Vicki hadn't ALWAYS been so clueless....in the pre-Barnabas era, Vicki actually was one smart cookie...unfortunately once Barnabas came along, and especially as 1795 progressed, her sharpness deteriorated, but I blame that more on the writers).
And I thought Jean Simmons brought the same level of class and grace to the role of Elizabeth that Joan Bennett did. I kinda wish the writers of the new show had evened the Barnabas story with the Jason McGuire story as the original did. I would have loved to have seen how Jean would have done with that (no doubt she would have been brilliant).
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Anybody who's ever read a word I've written probably knows that I'm no small fan of Joanna Going. [ghost_wink]
I rarely see him given much credit, but Stefan Gierasch was absolutely superb in the 91 DS, both as Woodard and as Joshua -- particularly the latter.
[spoiler]
(It's a shame they did what they did to him as Woodard, as he could have progressed into a long-running Stokes-style character with ease.) [/spoiler]
As Joshua, he brought a real element of class to the character -- and was quite believable as a stuffy, stern, but compassionate landowner from that period. Like Thayer David, he was one of the very best character actors in the show.
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My favorites are Barbara Steele and Julianne McCarthy. Roy Thinnes was a riot as Rev. Trask! Those caterpillar eyebrows, and the way he shredded the scenery!
I loved Steele's costumes as Natalie. She looked as if she had just come from a triumphant career running all the swankiest bordellos in Paris!
My roomie, who watched the show last year when I was collecting it on VHS, thought Carolyn was a hoot, particularly when the character changed into Barn's adoring sex slave. He kept saying that her clothing and mannerisms made it look as if she had just come from working the sidewalks in WeHo! He loved the "trampy Eighties" look of what the character wore in those shows.
cheers, G.
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Roy Thinnes as Trask. I still have nightmares about that, months after I've watched the revival. [ghost_blink]
Barbara Steele's Julia was a very different (occasionally frightening) Julia from Grayson Hall's, but I liked her. I would have liked Jean Simmons more as Elizabeth if she had been younger, as I think Jean Simmons was way too old for the part.
I thought Joanna Going and Barbara Blackburn (quick OT question: is she related to Clarice in any way?) were great as Vicki and Carolyn. We barely saw Maggie in the revival, so I don't really have any feelings about Ely Pouget.
I liked Joseph Gordon-Levitt, too. He and Henesy played David two different ways; Henesy was creepy, and Gordon-Levitt was scary.
I'm simply neutral about Michael T. Weiss.
I could rant forever about how much I hate Ben Cross in that role. [ghost_mad]
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I loved Joanna Going as Victoria. Barbara Steele was good as Julia, but even better as Natalie. Roy Thinnes as Roger just so-so. He was great as Trask.
I did not like Ben Cross as Barnabas or Jim Fyfe as Willie.
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I thought Joanna Going was excellent. Haven't seen it since the original broadcast but I know I hated Willie. Ben Cross and Barbara Steele were okay.
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I also thought Dr. Woodard should have remained on the series and hated what they did to him. The orignal DS Woodard was a compassionate, friendly guy, who never would have taken the option this Woodard did. They needed someone like this as the original eventually got Professor Stokes for this role.
I thought killing Dr Guthrie and Dr. Woodard were mistakes the old show made though they couldn't very well have had all three characters on at the same time.
Jim Fyfe was good as Ben in 1790, his Willie Loomis was irritating (especially that scene with his Aunt Mrs. Johnson and the nutloaf!)
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that scene with his Aunt Mrs. Johnson and the nutloaf!
I love that scene!
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I quite liked Jim Fyfe as Willie. Though he was pretty far from Karlen, I still enjoyed the character of Willie in the revival.
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DC wanted Willie to be the comic relief amongst all the angst and mayhem of the '91 series. I think the concept worked, and I found him more and more endearing as the series went on.
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I like her Natalie better than GH's!
OK let's not go nuts ;)
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I like her Natalie better than GH's!
OK let's not go nuts ;)
Well I just thought BS got to do Natalie better . GH's version of Natalie reminded me a lot of Julia. BS got to use the French accent. I wish that Grayson would have used the French accent. TRUST ME--I WORSHIP at the FEET OF GRAYSON HALL..so it's saying a lot for me to enjoy BS Natalie...alas I did.
Honorobale mentions. I actually liked the NEW version of MAGGIE. She was great. I liked the fact that she had psychic powers. I liked her and Roger's affair too. It was great to see Ely Pouget show up on a Season Seven episode of CHARMED too. She looked really good. Had aged well..
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Maggie and Roger's affair was interesting, and worked well within the context of the revival, but it caused me to think about that happening in the original, which was a very scary place that I'd prefer to never, ever go to again.
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Of course, being a big fan of the original TLATLKS's portrayal of Maggie, I wasn't pleased with how she was portrayed in the revival (Maggie would never do stuff like that!). However, after I had thought about it, TLATKLS first portrayed Maggie - blond wig and all - as more of a wise-cracking, hard-core, I'll-do-as-I-want-and-take-you-know-what-from-nobody-so-shut-your-face kinda girl. As Miss Scott said, Eve Arden (with a real attitude). So maybe that's what Dan Curtis wanted to do with the remake: "restore" Maggie to what he initially wanted but changed in the original after several episodes.
Like I once said in a post here quite a few years ago, it would've been difficult seeing the Maggie-as-initially-portrayed being the hapless, helpless imprisoned victim of Barnabas, hoping to turn her into Josette. Instead of her being confined in either Josette's room, or in the cellar, she's sitting on a chair in the Old House drawing room, feet up on a rare, valuable, restored antique table, hair in curlers, downing bon-bons, shouting: "Hey, Dracula! Get down here and massage the calluses on my feet and tell whimp-boy to bring me another cup of coffee while you're at it!" Barnabas tells Willie: "We have to get rid of her! Willie, go and do it!" To which Willie replies: "Bu...u...u...t, Barnabas! I'm a-a-a-a-fraid of her!"
Gerard
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Originally Maggie wasn't even supposed to be a part of the series - she was simply supposed to make a token appearance in the pilot. But TPTB liked Ely Pouget so much when they saw her few scenes that they decided to write Maggie into the series.
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I adore Joanna Going. I thought she was amazing as both Victoria and Josette. She really sold me on the Barnabas/Victoria(Josette) romance, as well, even when I was always wishing I could see her interact with Frid's Barnabas instead. In fact, Frid's Barnabas + Going's Victoria (as Josette's reincarnation) would have been my OTP (one true pairing) for sure. [ghost_cool]
I think Barbara Steele made a great Natalie - a better Natalie than Grayson Hall, IMO. I liked Michael T. Weiss as Peter more than Roger Davis.
But there's no doubt in my mind, the revival stays in my collection mainly because of Joanna Going.....
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joanna going was the focal point of the series for me too. she was so good as victoria and as josette. i'm kinda meh about ben cross as barnabas. jean simmons didn't have enough to do, but i like what i say.
loved barbara steele as julia and natalie. don't get me wrong. huge grayson fan here, but barbara brought her own thing to both roles, and she was good.
jim fyfe was fun as willie/ben stokes. and how good was julianna mccarthy as abigail? she rivals clarice blackburn in the original, at least to me.
loved michael t. weiss in every bit of the show, but then again, i think he's maybe the hottest man i've ever seen, so...
i'm still not sure what i think of angelique (lysette anthony). she was kinda over the top. i never got the sense that she was having as much fun being bad as lara parker, and that's why i enjoyed lara's version. but lysette brought real heat to the role. still, she was cheesy in a way.
carolyn seemed like she was high all the time in the 1991 series. maybe that's in keeping with her manhattan call girl wardrobe.
whoever mentioned stefan gierasch as a great character actor - i so agree! his woodard should have had the chance to become a stokes type character. that would have been awesome if there had been a second season.
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I wonder if Stefan Gierasch would not have played Professor Timothy Elliot Stokes if the series had continued. It seems logical to me.
Gerard
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I actually liked LYSETTE'S Sexed UP version of Angie. I thought she was really good. She really DID creep me out!
Taeylor
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Originally Maggie wasn't even supposed to be a part of the series - she was simply supposed to make a token appearance in the pilot. But TPTB liked Ely Pouget so much when they saw her few scenes that they decided to write Maggie into the series.
Thank you for that information, MB. I had hesitated to post that I liked Ely Pouget, because I wasn't sure whether it was the actress that I liked or the interesting character that she played, but I guess they're sort of mixed together.
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My favorite portrayal in the entire 91 series is Stefan Gierasch as Joshua. I thought he played that part so well, and it took me a while to realize that he had also played Woodard.
I also enjoyed Barbara Steele as Julia, but she has nothing at all on Grayson, IMO. It took me a long time to get used to her Julia, but not as much for her Natalie.
Ben Cross doesn't even come close to holding a candle to Frid, at all. I hated the way they made him growl and snarl into the camera. What a cheese!
And, finally, while I didn't like what's-his-face who played Roger, I did enjoy him as Reverend Trask. He truly was scary with those eyebrows!
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What's-his-face = Roy Thinnes. He barely did much of anything as Roger, so I can't really give an opinion on him in that role.
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Been a while since I've seen these episodes but I thought that Joanna Going was an excellent Vicki. Julianna McCarthy managed to make Abigail even nastier than Clarice did, no small achievement. Michael T. Weiss was good as Joe but better as Peter. Veronica Lauren was a great Sarah. My particular favorite was Barbara Blackburn who brought a nice comic touch to the early Carolyn scenes. And her Cybill Shepard-ish version of Millicent was one of the show's highlights for me.
I liked Lysette Anthony but I would have enjoyed her more without the Pepe Le Pew French accent. Barbara Steele's is more subtle.
Ben Cross has his moments but I found that he came up short as Barnabas. Especially after one of my friends pointed out that when he was in "bite mode", he looked remarkably like Ed O'Neill on Married with Children!
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Favorites
Joanna Going as Victoria Winters and Josette du Pres
She brought so much to the character of Victoria Winters. In my opinion, she was the best casting choice of the series. She made the show. She was a character we could love and empathize with. She made us really care about her.
Julianna McCarthy as Mrs. Johnson and Abigail Collins
Simply wonderful in both roles, but she really managed to shine as Abigail.
Stefan Gierasch as Michael Woodard and Joshua Collins
He was a fantastic nemesis for Barnabas in the present and really brought so much to the role of Joshua in the past.
Joseph Gordon-Levitt as David and Daniel Collins
He was fantastic as young David. We didn't get to see him as much as Daniel, but I really thought he did a wonderful job as David.
Veronica Lauren as Sarah Collins
She was terrific as Sarah Collins. We could really empathize with her.
Other notes:
Jean Simmons brought a great deal of class to the role of Elizabeth. She was very on par with Joan Bennett. The only problem, as other have said, is that we didn't get to see her very much.
Barbara Steele was a DIFFERENT Julia. I think she is a terrific actress, but she was very "rigid" when playing Julia. I liked her more as Natalie.
I enjoyed Michael T. Weiss as Joe and Peter. I thought he turned in quality performances, but he was definitely better as Peter. Had he been old enough, I would have preferred him as Peter in the original series too. That would have helped that 1968 storyline a great deal. I still prefer Crothers as Joe, though.
Ben Cross was okay as Barnabas. I don't have any major qualms with him, but he was so "harsh" that you couldn't really empathize with him like you could with Frid. Although he was in the show a lot, I never really thought of him as the main character. Going stole the show for me.
I did not care for Lysette Anthony as Angelique. I had a number of bones of contention with her characterization, least of which was what she did with the accent. I didn't really like Barbara Blackburn as Carolyn. She played her as being much more "adult" than Nancy Barrett. I know the character was written that way, so it probably wasn't Blackburn's fault at all. I did think she turned in good performances. I just didn't like her Carolyn. And I didn't like Ely Pouget's Maggie. I liked her having psychic abilities, but I didn't care for how she was written. Again, probably not a reflection on Pouget's talents.
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Cousin--blame DC at least in part for Barbara Steele's performance as Julia. She actually talked about doing DS in this video interview that was included as an extra (I think on Nightmare Castle) on one of her Italian horror film DVD releases a year or two ago. She said that Dan kept forcing her to play certain scenes very "straight" and that she was not allowed to make the character as "eccentric" as she would have wished. It is a brief part of the interview, but it is clear that DS does not at all represent a happy memory for Barbara Steele.
I actually enjoyed her both as Julia and as the Countess... grand stuff! Although the Countess dresses and talks like the madam of a bordello. Interesting take on the character!
G.
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The writers of the '91 Series have also commented that they weren't all that happy with having to write Julia so dark. But their hands were tied by a certain EP who insisted upon it...
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I have commented elsewhere that Depp Shadows may well stand the best chance of ANY of the spinoffs and remakes... INCLUDING the early Seventies feature films--of being similar in tone to the original series... BECAUSE DC has had NO INPUT on it. I don't think he ever got why the series took off the way it did in the first place.
But, no doubt some would say that makes me somehow not a "real fan." lol.
G.
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Well, if so, then you've got a lot of like-minded company here, so I suppose that means many of us are not "real fans" by those "real fans" on Facebook's definition. [snow_wink]
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Not FB again! Gah! It makes me want to to find these people and give them a good talking to! [snow_bigglass]
Cousin--blame DC at least in part for Barbara Steele's performance as Julia...
Thanks for sharing that tidbit. I wish they would have let her do her own thing. Like I said, I think she is a terrific actress.
I have commented elsewhere that Depp Shadows may well stand the best chance of ANY of the spinoffs and remakes...
Yes, I do hope that Burton's take allows for a truer Julia as well as every other character! We shall see...
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Cousin--blame DC at least in part for Barbara Steele's performance as Julia. She actually talked about doing DS in this video interview that was included as an extra (I think on Nightmare Castle) on one of her Italian horror film DVD releases a year or two ago. She said that Dan kept forcing her to play certain scenes very "straight" and that she was not allowed to make the character as "eccentric" as she would have wished. It is a brief part of the interview, but it is clear that DS does not at all represent a happy memory for Barbara Steele.
Did she ever indicate how "eccentric" she wanted to play Julia?