DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '08 I => Topic started by: Garth Blackwood on June 14, 2008, 03:31:26 AM
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[spoiler]Technically speaking, Roger Collins married his grandmother? Obviously the writers didn't seem to care, but I think it would've been slightly more sensible to have a son of Quentin/Carl/Judith be the father of Roger and Elizabeth. This need not be featured prominently in the plot, he could be away at boarding school during 1897 much the way Gabriel and Edith's kids are in 1840. [/spoiler]
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I never thought of this.... it just makes things creepier and more unsettling. Creepy subtext under the overt creepiness... good going, DS!
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Yeah but poor David!! Maybe in like 1996 he developed a genetic disease having to do with the fact that he has inherited several genes where he had two copies identical by descent (since Roger clearly shared some genes, approx 1/4 of them, with Laura)
Hopefully, since she's a phoenix genetics principles don't apply to her and her offspring.
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Puts a new light on Loius Edmund's blooper, doesn't it? lol
"Several of my incestors........incestors? Ancestors were buried here."
Or something like that.
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the fact that laura marries into the family and bears children every hundred years certainly does open up the possibilities for inbreeding doesn't it?i never thought of that before.yuck.
because of the constantly changing timeline when is the family next due for some drama with laura?
2066?2095?2097?
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If one believes Isaac Newton's prediction, The Collinses won't have to worry about Laura trying to lure her child(children) into the flames again in any of those years because the world is going to end in 2060. [ghost_wink] Too bad, Laura - it looks as if, aside from David Radcliffe, you weren't very successful. [ghost_cheesy]
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If one believes Isaac Newton's prediction... the world is going to end in 2060.
Eh? I'll be 102, and dead, so I don't care, future generations, feh.... but what's this?
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Dang, I won't have senior citizen benefits for nearly as long as I'd like if the world's going to end in 52 years. >_>
Yes, I've realized this. It's one of the many DS-related running jokes my mother and I share. But we must remember that it's incredibly likely that [spoiler]David is Burke's son.[/spoiler] Still doesn't change the ick factor, as the hepcats today would put it, though.
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That possibility has plenty of ick in it, as far as I'm concerned...
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[spoiler]David is Burke's son.[/spoiler]
I know that's hinted at, but I doubt the show would have really gone there because it would have effectively [spoiler]ended the Collins family line forever![/spoiler]
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I tend to believe that it's a little more than hinted at, especially considering the way Roger puts it, [spoiler]"David was born almost 8 months after we were married!"[/spoiler]
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Though there is such a thing as a real [spoiler]premature baby. [ghost_wink][/spoiler]
And one thing that writers love to do is put an alternate spin on what's real just to keep the audience guessing until the actual truth comes out, which in this case most likely would have been that [spoiler]David was indeed Roger's son.[/spoiler]
We especially should believe that when there was never any real evidence otherwise beyond Roger's remark (and he and Laura exchanged barbs with each other as often as most other people exchange pleasantries) and what Laura may have hinted to Burke (but Laura was a master manipulator when it came to Burke because all she was interested in was getting him to do her dirty work - she would have implied anything and everything if she thought it would motivate Burke, so anything she may have done with him is highly suspect).
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True, true. But DS is a soap, and which outcome is more interesting and, well, soapy? :P Although, seeing as how Laura's a supernatural creature, [spoiler]David could very well be Burke AND Roger's son. DC only knows what kind of births phoenixes have.[/spoiler]
But, yeah, as far as the main topic here goes, Roger [spoiler]married his grams[/spoiler], and that is something the writers really should have looked at before writing it into the story. Wonder if any daring fans have mentioned it to the surviving writers? [ghost_rolleyes]
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I know that's hinted at, but I doubt the show would have really gone there because it would have effectively [spoiler]ended the Collins family line forever![/spoiler]
Well we know that David happens to look identical to the Collins' little boys of the past. So either he is roger's son, or Burke was somehow related to the Collins family. (unless it was one of those inexplicable resemblances, such as Sebastian Shaw and Jeb Hawkes, lol...)
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Imagine if Burke had turned out to be a Collins! Whoa! [wow] That would have turned so many things on their heads - especially if it had been revealed when Burke and Roger/Liz were at the height of their feud!
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Imagine if Burke had turned out to be a Collins! Whoa! [wow]
Well we know that Burke's second incarnation looked suspiciously similar to Jeremiah Collins, so ..... [ghost_tongue2]
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True - though so far as we know, Jeremiah didn't have children. And since Jeremiah's looks were a product of both his father and his mother, one wouldn't assume that just anyone within the Collins bloodline could produce a son with an extremely similar look. [ghost_wink]
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True - though so far as we know, Jeremiah didn't have children. And since Jeremiah's looks were a product of both his father and his mother, one wouldn't assume that just anyone within the Collins bloodline could produce a son with a similar look. [ghost_wink]
Well, anyone who is genetically related to Daniel, will definitionally share some genes with Jeremiah, since they are related. It just so happens that I do research in the area of genetics so let me tell you, that it certainly could happen.
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Well, one would presume that the ancestor would have also have had to have been descended from Jeremiah's mother for the descendant to look virtually identical to Jeremiah. I mean, she did contribute a signiifcant amount of her own genes when it came to Jeremiah's looks. [ghost_wink] One might assume someone solely of Jeremiah's father's line could produce someone who looked similar to Jeremiah - but I'd strongly question whether or not they could produce someone virtually identical.
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Well of course it is unlikely for people to look identical to each other if they are not twins. This would be the case even with Father/Son pairs. In the real world this would never happen ... But in DS world, if you are genetically related to someone, and you are the same gender as them, then you have a pretty substantial chance of looking identical to them. We can both agree that Jeremiah is somehow related to the current Collins family, since Daniel was clearly related to Joshua somehow.
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My major point is that for someone to look virtually identical to Jeremiah, they most probably need to be a direct descendant from Jeremiah's mother as well as his father. And since no one of that branch of the family had children to our knowledge... ;)
But again, this topic is also going in circles, so...
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Somewhere back there, Jeremiah shares an ancestor with Daniel (probably grandfather or great-), therefore making Jeremiah the second (1/32 shared genes) or third (1/128 shared genes) cousin of Daniel. Now consider the fact that Millicent looks just like Carolyn. I'm pretty sure Daniel is 6 generations back from Carolyn. So she shares 1/(2^6) = 1/64 of her genes with Daniel, and therefore 1/128 of her genes with Millicent. However, anyone is Carolyn's line is liable to be identical to Millicent, despite sharing at most 1/256 of their genes with her. So very few shared genes are required to produce identical appearance in DS world.
This was the crux of my argument, but whatever it was fun, I'll say no more.
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We also have to take into account that Quentin probably had dozens, if not hundreds of lovechildren running amok thorughout the country, so hey, who knows? Who on Dark Shadows might not be a Collins is a better question. [ghost_tongue2] And I again point out that we don't know how phoenix births work. David could be the son of one man, or two, or two dozen for all we know.
Come to think of it, [spoiler]Carolyn and Chris[/spoiler] are cousins, though not first cousins. Good thing they never dated too seriously. Julia's comment to Cassandra that the Collins were very inbred is extremely accurate.
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Who on Dark Shadows might not be a Collins is a better question. [ghost_tongue2]
Possibly true! [lghy]
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Who on Dark Shadows might not be a Collins is a better question. [ghost_tongue2]
Possibly true! [lghy]
LOL, quite possibly! Wouldn't the explanation for Liz's strong resemblance to Barnabas' mother, for example, have to be that Naomi was a Collins? Since Jeremiah was strongly encouraged to court Millicent, marrying your cousin was apparently not seen by the early Collinses as a bad thing. [ghost_wub]
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OMG, Midnite- you've hit on it! If Jeremiah's parents were cousins, then perhaps somehow the genes that produced his mother might have survived in some other Collins line, and if they mixed with Jeremiah's father's line again, well there's the fantastical explanation for how Burke could conceivably be a Collins who looks virtually identical to Jeremiah! [ghost_cheesy]
Those Collinses - forget Carolyn's suggestion that their family motto should be "Hypocrisy above all" - it should be "Incestuousness above all"! [stfl]
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Some people who might not be a Collins (by blood):
Bruno
Sky Rumson
Jeb Hawkes
Nicholas Blair
Laszlo
Ezra Braithwait
Frank Garner
Matthew Morgan
Count Petofi
Evan Hanley
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If Jeremiah's parents were cousins, then perhaps somehow the genes that produced his mother might have survived in some other Collins line, and if they mixed with Jeremiah's father's line again, well there's the fantastical explanation for how Burke could conceivably be a Collins who looks virtually identical to Jeremiah! [ghost_cheesy]
Heh heh! Hey, there could be several such events that explain the Collins' unusually "persistent strain." Just because a child directly receives 50% of his/her DNA from each parent (as Garth Blackwood wrote it, a 1/2 genetic relation) doesn't mean that the genes inherited from one of the parents differ entirely from the genes inherited from the other. GB's calculations (which were great, btw) don't take into consideration that there could be additional relationships between the family members, such as the added twist to David's line that:
[spoiler]Technically speaking, Roger Collins married his grandmother[/spoiler]
Those Collinses - forget Carolyn's suggestion that their family motto should be "Hypocrisy above all" - it should be "Incestuousness above all"! [stfl]
[lghy]
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Come to think of it, [spoiler]Carolyn and Chris[/spoiler] are cousins, though not first cousins. Good thing they never dated too seriously. Julia's comment to Cassandra that the Collins were very inbred is extremely accurate.
[spoiler]so, she's joe's cousin too?[/spoiler]
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Willie Loomis, check out the thread "A Family full of incesters" starting here:
Joe is not a Collins relative. ...
and in the following post:
As for Chris and Carolyn. They're third cousins. A union that is perfectly legal in all of our 50 states and as far as I know, the rest of the world. ...