DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '08 I => Topic started by: michael c on June 12, 2008, 09:40:06 PM

Title: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: michael c on June 12, 2008, 09:40:06 PM: i've been watching the 1968 episodes.

there is a scene shortly after the death of doctor lang where jeff clark lets himself into lang's house to retrieve some files about himself(seeing as lang was blackmailing him blah,blah)and encounters barnabas sulking around the place.

so things play out this way.barnabas tries to order jeff out but when he refuses and basically challenges barnabas to fisticuffs b backs down sheepishly.later when jeff vows to return to collinwood to tell vicki of the good news he's discovered b lamely tries to tell him that vicki's a "clever girl" who needs more than a pretty face to satisfy her albatrossian virtuousness.jeff,well on to barnabas' thinly veiled game,in so many words tells b that he and vicki are in love and to "leave us alone!".finally all b can muster up is a garboesque "get out!".from start to end barnabas comes across as ineffectual and rather fey.

and all of this milquetoastiness from a guy who a scant six months earlier was threatening to put burke devlin six feet under for vicki's fine affections.i cannot believe he allows this whippersnapper to order him around in this way!

also i believe this is the first of the great 'jeff mauls vicki' episodes.when he returns to collinwood he spins vicki(who really looks quite lovely in a full-skirted,poppy red dress quite different from her usual number)in the air and then does a real job totally destroying her neat hairdo in a face-grabbing "i love you" moment. [ghost_rolleyes]
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Gothick on June 12, 2008, 10:03:23 PM: I think the spinning through the air moment was the scene where a particularly sharp-eyed friend of mine stated that you could see the "virginal" Miss Winters' undergarments if you played the scene in slo-mo. (For some reason or other, the undergarments of the ladies of the Great House don't especially intrigue me--although I admit to being fascinated by their habit of wearing high heels to bed!)

I can't remember whether it was Kosmo or another fan who wrote a hysterical short story about the *original* Burke Devlin trashing the 1967 Barnabas in a fistfight. The scene where Barn was jumping up and down screaming "He bwoke my fang!" to a hapless Willie was truly priceless.

G.
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: michael c on June 12, 2008, 10:06:58 PM: yes gothick,

there is indeed an "i see london,i see france" moment in the foyer in this episode.

sort of a big "granny-panty" type of undergarment if i recall.
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Gerard on June 12, 2008, 11:04:42 PM: Don't forget the other classic London/France scene, when two newlyweds enter Collinwood in the PT1970 storyline which set the hearts a patter of many a young chap, myself included (even us gay ones), who had (and still have) massive crushes on TLATKLS. Maybe MPI can do a video of outakes.

Now, as for Barnabas and Jeff, when Dr. Lang offered to make our hero look like our, well, whatever you want to call him, it would stand to reason that Barnabas would've pondered for a minute and then said: "You know - no thanks. I'm not even that desperate if that's what it takes to have Vicki. I think I'll see what Julia is doing for dinner tonight, and if she's not around, I'll ask Mrs. Johnson. Would you happen to know a place in town for some good prime and decent martinis?"

Gerard
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: MagnusTrask on June 12, 2008, 11:29:53 PM: As for Barnabas and Jeff, and Barnabas backing down, first, Barnabas would never have gotten into a fistfight with Burke. Barnabas's confidence came from the supernatural tricks he had at his disposal. Second, someone who's been leading a pretty sick, irresponsible, weaselly existence up until very recently (vampire), who before could defeat anyone easily, would get spooked down to his bones at the loss of those powers. He couldn't possibly have the same confidence as before.

Barnabas just recently chose to give up all his plans to spare Jeff Clark's life. That was a pivotal moment in Barnabas's life. Clark doesn't know, and gets confrontational.... That's a pretty crazy, complicated situation, where there's no sensible way available to react. Do you try to beat up a rival whose life you just spared.... because he doesn't appreciate it? Because you're losing what you care about most to a clueless jerk? Or is Jeff the symbol of Barnabas's new morality, someone he needs to care about because he makes Vicki happy?

Man, am I overthinking this.......

Gothick.... Yes, I agree, if it comes to bodyswapping for love, I think you say no, no matter what.... and he did. The insanity and absurdity of the whole thing may have helped him a lot in making the decision to "cry enough". The idea of escaping Ang kept him thinking about it, though.
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: IluvBarnabas on June 12, 2008, 11:47:49 PM: I don't think you're overthinking at all, Magnus. I think what you say makes sense. [ghost_wink]

I will say though, that if it weren't for Vicki, Barnabas would probably have loved to have wipe the floor with Jeff. With his cane if nothing else. [ghost_tongue2]
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: retzev on June 13, 2008, 01:09:18 AM: Quote from: mscbryk on June 12, 2008, 10:06:58 PM
there is indeed an "i see london,i see france" moment in the foyer in this episode.

Vicki? [ghost_blink] Which episode number are we discussing? [ghost_smiley]
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on June 13, 2008, 01:11:24 AM: I agree with IlB - I think your analysis was very perceptive, Magnus.

And I don't normally advocate violence against the DS characters, and I'm ashamed to admit it, but if only we could have seen the scenario IlB painted of Barnabas, Jeff and Barnabas' cane. [ghost_embarrassed] [ghost_wink]
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on June 13, 2008, 01:12:36 AM: Quote from: retzev on June 13, 2008, 01:09:18 AM
Vicki? [ghost_blink] Which episode number are we discussing? [ghost_smiley]

That would be Ep #487, retzev. [ghost_smiley]
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: retzev on June 13, 2008, 01:46:41 AM: Muchas Gracias, MB
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Bob_the_Bartender on June 13, 2008, 02:17:02 AM: Well, I guess when Lang & Clark were not honing their incomparable comedic shtick, the venerable Dr. Lang was mentoring his young colleague about the possible perils of a menage a trois (involving Vicky, Jeff and Mr. B.) with the pithy comment:

"Cherchez la femme." [love3] [love10] [ghost_nowink]
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Bob_the_Bartender on June 13, 2008, 02:22:09 AM: Quote from: Gerard on June 12, 2008, 11:04:42 PM
I think I'll see what Julia is doing for dinner tonight, and if she's not around, I'll ask Mrs. Johnson.

Gerard,

And, if neither Dr. Hoffman nor Mrs. Johnson was available, perhaps Mr. B. could have asked Donna Friedlander out for a "date"? Heck, Ms. Friedlander was also affectionately known as Collinsport's "24/7 - Goodtime Girl." [ghost_rolleyes]

Bob the Bartender
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: retzev on June 13, 2008, 02:32:11 AM: Quote from: mscbryk on June 12, 2008, 10:06:58 PM
sort of a big "granny-panty" type of undergarment if i recall.

Well, I reluctantly popped my DVD in to review the scene, and it seems that we are treated to a glimpse of Vicki's upper thighs. The tops of her stockings and her garters are visible for brief moment. The fairness of her skin does give the impression of a pair of white grannies, but alas, no panties [ghost_tongue2]
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: barnabasjr on June 13, 2008, 03:03:16 AM: Darn!
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Willie Loomis on June 13, 2008, 05:50:39 PM: Quote from: mscbryk on June 12, 2008, 10:06:58 PM
there is indeed an "i see london,i see france" moment in the foyer in this episode.

sort of a big "granny-panty" type of undergarment if i recall.

maggie evans had a panty moment too. quite interesting.
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Midnite on June 13, 2008, 06:21:20 PM: Quote from: Willie Loomis on June 13, 2008, 05:50:39 PM
maggie evans had a panty moment too. quite interesting.

That's what Gerard was referring to in his oh-so-adorable way: [oky]

Quote from: Gerard on June 12, 2008, 11:04:42 PM
Don't forget the other classic London/France scene, when two newlyweds enter Collinwood in the PT1970 storyline which set the hearts a patter of many a young chap, myself included (even us gay ones), who had (and still have) massive crushes on TLATKLS.
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: MagnusTrask on June 13, 2008, 06:25:39 PM: Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on June 13, 2008, 01:11:24 AM
I agree with IlB - I think your analysis was very perceptive, Magnus.

Thanks, MB.... (& ILB)

Re Victoria and London and France: Let's all just be glad that we have someone like retzev available, to do this kind of research.
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: michael c on June 13, 2008, 07:16:12 PM: i doubt alexandra went commando...

i re-watched this scene as well and there is some sort of indeterminate undergarment "briefly" visable.

this reminds me of the recent brouhaha over a tabloid photograph of amy winehouse supposedly wearing a diaper underneath a dress.
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: MagnusTrask on June 13, 2008, 07:20:31 PM: One day in the future, there will be 24-hour monitoring of our underwear through indetectable, miniaturized video cameras, implanted in our thighs. It's coming, you can't fight the future.....
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on June 13, 2008, 07:59:49 PM: It's amazing how this topic has devolved into who did or did not show their panties. [ghost_cheesy] And at the risk of contributing to that devolvement even more:

Quote from: MagnusTrask on June 13, 2008, 07:20:31 PM
One day in the future, there will be 24-hour monitoring of our underwear through indetectable, miniaturized video cameras, implanted in our thighs. It's coming, you can't fight the future.....

But what about the people who don't wear underwear? Whoever monitors those cameras is going to get quite the view! [ghost_grin]
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Gerard on June 13, 2008, 08:35:42 PM: The thigh implants will never come to fruition. The black-patent leather shoe industry is too powerful to ever let that happen; even the oil industry quivers in its shadow.

Gerard
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on June 13, 2008, 08:39:30 PM: That's probably true, Gerard. [lghy]
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: MagnusTrask on June 13, 2008, 09:13:18 PM: Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on June 13, 2008, 07:59:49 PM
But what about the people who don't wear underwear? Whoever monitors those cameras is going to get quite the view! [ghost_grin]

In fact, in the future, "The View" will become a program entirely devoted to in-depth video coverage of any humans still foolish enough to think they can outwit the crotch police.
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on June 13, 2008, 09:31:39 PM: Quote from: MagnusTrask on June 13, 2008, 09:13:18 PM
any humans still foolish enough to think they can outwit the crotch police.

Well, that would seem to imply that 1) not wearing underwear is foolish, and 2) there should be such a thing as the crotch police - both of which I would argue against. But traveling anywhere down that road would be going way OT, so perhaps we should start to reign in any underwear discussion - or at least keep it strictly about underwear seen or even perceived seen on DS. [ghost_wink]

Suddenly I can't get Cheap Trick's Dream Police out of my head (which, considering the actual lyrics, is ironic [ghost_wink]) - only I'm substituting "crotch" for "dream" - and a whole slew of other words for the rest of the lyrics. [ghost_grin] I think I need to put on a real CD...
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Gothick on June 13, 2008, 09:50:16 PM: Hmmm.... crotch police needed for that disreputable Lieutenant Nathan Forbes? I"m soooo THERE!

cheekily(!)

G.
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: michael c on June 13, 2008, 10:20:11 PM: my,my,my this conversation has devolved into something hasn't it!?
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Gerard on June 13, 2008, 11:03:17 PM: I agree! This whole discussion has become twisted and sordid!

I like that.

Gerard
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: MagnusTrask on June 13, 2008, 11:31:38 PM: MB--- The Crotch Police are evil. I was presenting a cautionary tale, a hideous portent of things to come. I might start tuning in to The View now and then, though....
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: retzev on June 14, 2008, 02:59:45 AM: Quote from: mscbryk on June 13, 2008, 07:16:12 PM
i doubt alexandra went commando...

i re-watched this scene as well and there is some sort of indeterminate undergarment "briefly" visable.

I rewatched it too. Again and again [ghost_grin]

I'm convinced no panties of any sort are visible, only stockings, garters, and glorious upper thighs. I even made these screen caps for me...I mean you. And barnabasjr [ghost_tongue2]

mmm... (http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e144/retzev/unpickyVicki/v1.jpg)

yes... (http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e144/retzev/unpickyVicki/v2.jpg)

oh yeah... (http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e144/retzev/unpickyVicki/v3.jpg)

Thank God for DVD technology!!!
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on June 14, 2008, 03:25:07 AM: Quote from: retzev on June 14, 2008, 02:59:45 AM
Thank God for DVD technology!!!

Indeed! [ghost_wink]

And I can't say I see any panties either. And that's actually a very reassuring thing because, for her panties to have been visible in those shots, they would have had to have been hanging awfully far down past her bottom to the point of almost being bloomers. [ghost_shocked] Vicki was supposed to be a bit old fashioned - but there's a limit to just how old fashioned she should have been!! [ghost_cheesy]
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: barnabasjr on June 14, 2008, 03:43:11 AM: Quote from: retzev on June 14, 2008, 02:59:45 AM
I even made these screen caps for me...I mean you. And barnabasjr [ghost_tongue2]
Bless you, child!
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: michael c on June 14, 2008, 03:45:57 AM: i always thought that by 1968 "pantyhose" had been invented to accommodate the panty-skimming hemlines popular at the time.

i didn't realize women still wore stockings and garters that late.

so it ain't undies...as aunt abigail would say it's still "shockingly immodest"! [ghost_wink]
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: MagnusTrask on June 14, 2008, 04:13:59 AM: Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on June 14, 2008, 03:25:07 AM
... for her panties to have been visible in those shots, they would have had to have been hanging awfully far down past her bottom to the point of almost being bloomers. [ghost_shocked] Vicki was supposed to be a bit old fashioned - but there's a limit to just how old fashioned she should have been!! [ghost_cheesy]

I LOLed....

I say mscbryk is DS Forums' official underwear consultant, from now on. Just think of that on your business card....
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Garth Blackwood on June 14, 2008, 04:55:55 AM: I'm going to ignore the weird place this discussion went and address the original post [ghost_cheesy]

I don't think that Barnabas would normally jump to the idea of killing a potential rival for V's love if he wasn't a vampire. I think we have to acknowledge the drastic change that he undergoes when he becomes human again. Yes, he still blackmails Willie to some extent, but he certainly does not consider murder a viable option the way he did when before he got cured. I think much of the difference in his mentality can be attributed to this.
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: MagnusTrask on June 14, 2008, 05:32:46 AM: That's true, I just wish it hadn't been that simple. It's more interesting to watch people's morality change because of thoughts and experiences and inner struggle, than it is to see it happen magically.
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Miss_Winthrop on June 14, 2008, 02:12:03 PM: To deviate (heh,heh) back to another thought, perhaps Miss Moltke was wearing petti-pants. They were very popular back in the mid to late sixties with teens and young women. They looked more like bloomers than large granny panties. Often times, if memory serves me correctly, they were adorned with rows of colorful ribbons along the bottoms of the leg openings.
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: bluefielder on June 25, 2008, 12:42:36 AM: As for the unmentionables mentioned here. Who could forget Grayson's garter in episode 510.
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: MsCriseyde on June 25, 2008, 03:36:26 AM: Thanks for that, bluefielder. It's back to therapy for me. [ghost_tongue2]
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Breebell on June 25, 2008, 04:07:13 AM: As to the original post...IMHO Barnabus wasn't afraid of Jeff Clark, Barnabus wasn't afraid of anyone. He was just thinking of Vicki.
He could have slaughtered Jeff, vampy powers or not. And while I like Roger Davis, I didn't like his Jeff Clark at all, so I was really hoping Barnabus would just punch him in the head.
And then it would have been nice if everyone on set that day ran over and punched him in the head too.

Now, as for the panties segue...I can't believe no one has mentioned Carolyns bright yellow panties in episode 945? 946? where she is being terrorized by a noise outside her door. She falls and her dress flies up a bit.

There. I did it. I talked about panties on a message board. Somehow I don't feel as dirty as I thought I would. I kind of like it.
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: MagnusTrask on June 25, 2008, 08:22:10 AM: You have broken through a barrier into a new world, my friend.
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: GooberCollins on June 27, 2008, 12:20:03 AM: Barnabas probably could have killed Jeff, but put it off due to the fact that Jeff (as far as we know) was not a prostitute, and in addition to not being a hooker, he was someone who several could likely identify as a contender for Vicki's affections, which anyone with half a brain could tell Barnabas wanted (of course, Vicki had somewhere in between 1/3 and 1/4 of a brain at that point, so she can be excused [ghost_rolleyes]).

On the subject of panty shots, Carolyn had a camera pointing up her dress for practically the entirety of the bit of the Leviathan Arc where she and Elizabeth were staying at the Rumsons' house.
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on June 27, 2008, 12:32:31 AM: Quote from: GooberCollins on June 27, 2008, 12:20:03 AM
Barnabas probably could have killed Jeff, but put it off due to the fact that Jeff (as far as we know) was not a prostitute

[stfl] [stfl] [stfl] [stfl] [stfl] [stfl] [stfl] [stfl] [stfl] [stfl]

OMG, that gave me the biggest laugh I've had all week - maybe even all month!!
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: GooberCollins on June 27, 2008, 12:43:33 AM: *bows* Thank you, thank you. [ghost_tongue2] Jeff, being a [spoiler]law enforcer, or close to one, in a past life[/spoiler], would never have stood for prostitution! [ghost_rolleyes] Of course, the ABC execs at that time would probably have claimed that those were just "very gaudily-dressed women who merely wanted to date Barnabas, or in the case of Marsha Mason, play with his ears."
Title: Re: barnabas and jeff clark
Post by: Midnite on June 27, 2008, 12:50:41 AM: Quote from: GooberCollins on June 27, 2008, 12:43:33 AM
or in the case of Marsha Mason, play with his ears.

[lol2]