DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '08 I => Topic started by: Charles_Ellis on May 13, 2008, 01:46:19 AM
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Tonight, Entertainment Tonight did a piece on the new version of Password being hosted by Regis Philbin, and they showed clips from the classic 1960s CBS version. It was then I remembered two things. First, this was the program that replaced DS on the ABC schedule, and second (this is the delicious part), only a few tapes from the ABC years were saved as opposed to DS itself! The reuns on GSN are mostly from the CBS years or the later 1980s incarnations of Password. So in a way DS has managed to survive past the 1971-75 version of Passowrd! Maybe the fans in 1971 who picketed ABC put a hex on the game show.....
One more irony- guess who was on the last ABC Password? None other than Kate Jackson!!!
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Kate Jackson appeared on Password several times (during her The Rookies years she frequently did game shows). And whenever I had the chance to catch her on any game shows between classes or on vacation, I tried to take pictures off of the TV screen (I got quite good at it). I had no idea that many of those appearances might have been lost, so it's interesting to think that my pictures might be the only surviving record of them...
And I love the irony of a DS star being on the final ep of ABC's Password. [ghost_wink]
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I find it ironic that Password had a shorter run on ABC than DS, and was followed by the soap Edge of Night.
Edge, rated MUCH lower than DS, lasted nine years in DS' old ABC slot.
Go figure!
David
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But recall that DS didn't end because of low ratings. [ghost_wink]
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But recall that DS didn't end because of low ratings. [ghost_wink]
It didn't? What then?
The Edge of Night was the only "regular" soap opera I liked at all. If I got home from school soon enough I'd catch a little of it before DS.
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In a word- DEMOGRAPHICS. The ABC brass figured that the teen audience was fickle and notice how the audience shrank after the Leviathan debacle. However, the ratings for DS in its last months were actually going up again, so ratings weren't a factor. They figured with a game show they'd get more adults who would buy the sponsor's goods. A lot of popular shows were cancelled because they attracted what the network claimed was an 'undesirable' audience. Either the viewers were too young or too old. In DS' case, it was ironic because the young people made the show a smash, and yet the beancounters cancelled it to get grownup dollars.
Around 1970, the opposite was true for primetime: Longtime favorites like the shows hosted by Ed Sullivan, Jackie Gleason and Red Skelton were canned because despite high ratings, they attracted older viewers, not the 18-35 group so desired (still today) by the newtorks. Lawrence Welk was also forced off ABC for the same reason, but he got the last laugh by going into first-run syndication and getting even more viewers than ever. CBS got rid of all of its hit rural-themed shows (Beverly Hillbillies, Hee Haw et al) for the same reason, plus they wanted to change their image to a more sophisticated image. So, out with Jed Clampett and Aunt Bee, in with Archie Bunker and Mary Richards, or as Green Acres' Pat Buttram famously said, "They cancelled everything with a tree in it".
Sorry for the long discourse, but I just want to illustrate the stupid atmosphere of the TV industry around the time DS went off the air: in retrospect, it wasn't the only show that got canned for the wrong reasons. (And don't get me started on how Gilligan's Island got canned!)
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It didn't? What then?
Several different issues brought about DS' cancellation. Fortunately, there are several different topics on the forum that explain them. A search will being up many topics like:
Why Was The Original DS Cancelled?
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CBS got rid of all of its hit rural-themed shows (Beverly Hillbillies, Hee Haw et al) for the same reason, plus they wanted to change their image to a more sophisticated image. So, out with Jed Clampett and Aunt Bee, in with Archie Bunker and Mary Richards, or as Green Acres' Pat Buttram famously said, "They cancelled everything with a tree in it".
This part of the story I'm already familiar with, and respectfully, am I glad they did this.... We got a whole new slate of some of the smartest and funniest shows ever, and said goodbye to all those rural shows, most of which might have been seen as insulting by Southern and rural viewers. Mayberry RFD was respectful to the South, but not many others.
This is exactly the moment in TV I think of, when contemplating how horrible things are on broadcast TV now. They took a huge risk and it worked. Turning things around now would require just that kind of decision.
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I was watching the Bio Channel one time and they said back in the early 70's, the networks did away the
shows like "The Brady Bunch" and "Bewitched" just to make room for other shows like "All In The Family"
and "Good Times".
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I didn't know non-rural, un-countryish shows were affected. Hmmm... sounds like they broke even there. All In the Family>Brady Bunch, I heartily agree with them. Bewitched>Good Times, I don't.
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It's interesting that in retrospect so many of those cancelled shows from that time period have such strong followings today- even StarTrek falls in that category as it had a huge teen following, but like DS the network wanted adult viewers for ad revenues. I know that there are a lot of people who'd rather buy DVDs of Green Acres over All In The Family anyday!
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Yes, I know, the world didn't turn out the way I'd hoped. The thing is, though, even now, you could make more challenging shows with ideas, that could draw in people from all demographics, if done correctly and well. One of the biggest reasons we don't have a MASH or AITF right now that's popular, is that no network tries, and sticks with the shows through the early weeks. They think they know what people want, but no one really knows, not even people themselves, because they can't judge what's not on. Networks should lead a bit, and not just follow ratings.
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How true. Many shows that became critical and popular smash hits started out at the bottom-of-the-dumps ratings. The Dick Van Dyke Show, All In the Family, Cheers, et. al., in their first seasons, went nowhere in viewership. Cheers, in its first season, at times was last in the ratings. But the networks stuck it out, because they knew they had quality, and just kept trying and - voila! - they ended up with classics. They don't do that today. Sometimes, after 13 episodes (sometimes even after just six!), they pull the plug. What use to be gourmet has now become fast food.....and the drive-through, no less.
Gerard
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TPTB at the networks think of programs as instantly disposable commodities these days - and they can be disposed of for the ficklest of reasons. Considering how the current practice is that almost every program that doesn't perform to expectations right out of the gate is canceled sooner rather than later, just think of how many classic programs that didn't click right away would have never survived to become the classics that they were allowed to become if TPTB of today had been in charge. Patience is no longer a word in most networks' vocabularies. [ghost_rolleyes]
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I think of Dan Curtis' remake of Kolchak: The Night Stalker. I didn't get to see it in its evening run (because I had to work), but did watch it when it's been rerun on Sci-Fi. I thought it was a well done, eerie show (the episode about the woman-creature that preserves her "youth" and looks by zonking unsuspecting females and feeding off of them while they are still alive was a real spooker). Yet, whatever network initially aired it decided to cancel it even before all the filmed episodes were shown. It was never given a chance. And don't forget about NBC's decision to ax the DS remake. It started out strong in the ratings, but the constant interruptions for reports on the Gulf War caused a ratings drop, not because viewers lost interest, but because they didn't know when it would be on. You can't watch something when you don't know where to find it. How utterly stupid.
Gerard
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Yet, whatever network initially aired it decided to cancel it even before all the filmed episodes were shown.
ABC canceled The Night Stalker in the middle of a two-part storyline. They ran part 1, but part 2 was never shown on ABC. Talk about disrespecting their audience by keeping them hanging. [ghost_rolleyes] But that's just par for the course these days...
And don't forget about NBC's decision to ax the DS remake.
At least NBC eventually figured out they'd made a mistake. But by the time they did, there was such a bitter taste in DC's mouth that he didn't even want to hear their offer to revive the show as a series of made-for-TV movies. [ghost_sad]
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Well, I don't blame Dan Curtis one bit, MB. The man made one of the most successful minseries in history (War and Remembrance), and NBC treats his latest work like a piece of you-know-what because they screwed up. I would've felt insulted by just tossing a bone by having a made-for-TV-movie to tie everything up. I can just imagine how Curtis felt. I found a lot of fault with his remake of DS, as expressed in posts dealing with the subject (those palm trees! - those horrible palm trees! - you all know how I feel about those rancid palm trees!). But I think the kinks could've been worked out and the whole project would've been a seven-year massive success. Shame on NBC.
Gerard
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Actually, NBC's Warren Littlefield proposed a series of made-for-TV movies, similar to what NBC was doing with Perry Mason. The offer wasn't simply one movie to tie up loose ends. [ghost_smiley]
And as far as palm trees in Collinsport goes, once and for all let's get real - if one honestly thinks about it, they're probably quite appropriate. Yes, Collinsport is in Maine, a state where palm trees shouldn't be likely to be seen. However, Collinsport is hardly the typical Maine locale, now is it? I mean, the grass stays green all year round, the never falling leaves stay fresh and green on the trees all year long - even the ivy on Collinwood itself is some unknown species of evergreen. If palm trees would be likely to be spotted in anywhere in Maine - lo, in anywhere in New England - it would certainly be in Collinsport! Their presence would merely be perfectly in keeping with all the other extremely odd flora of the region. [b003] And I say not only palm trees, but bring on the coconut tress, the banana trees, and, yes, even the cactus! They should all be seen in Collinsport all year long!! [ghost_grin]
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By the way, Dan Curtis did the Night Stalker and Night Strangler TV movies, but not the series. And even though I was mad at ABC for decades for the cancellation, toward the end of his life Darren McGavin said that he decided to pull the plug himself. I forget the reason. I could have sworn that in earlier years, he'd expressed anger at ABC for that.
I loved that show mainly for the attitude and humor, but once in awhile something genuinely scary would happen. [spoiler]In the zombie episode, when Kolchak is in a cramped junked car trying to sew a "sleeping" zombie's lips shut, the zombie's eyes unexpectedly open, and since we know it took Kolchak forever to crawl into that tight space, we know he can't get out in time.... that was so effective they edited that moment out in reruns.
"The Spanish Moss Murders"... best and scariest one, I think.[/spoiler]
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By the way, Dan Curtis did the Night Stalker and Night Strangler TV movies, but not the series.
Though DC did get a complimentary title (something like consultant, even though he had no actual involvement) on the '05 reimagining, which is the version to which Gerard was referring. [ghost_smiley]
This topic is veering way off from the way it started. But, hey - it happens. So long as it stays DS related, it's all good. [wink2]
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There was a guy who worked for NBC back in the 80's. I can't remember his name, but he brought shows
like Miami Vice and Quatum Leap to NBC. He left NBC in 1990 to go to work for Paramount Pictures. I believe
if he would have stayed at NBC for another year, he would have given the DS remake another chance.
That is why I believe the WB Network is going to regret rejecting another DS remake from Dan Curtis back
in 2004.
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You're thinking of Brandon Tartikoff, Doug. And, yes, he was a big supporter of the '91 DS. In fact, it was Tartikoff who convinced DC to bring DS back for NBC. But once he left, Warren Littlefield was named as his replacement, and he was not a supporter of DS - well, until he saw the error of his ways - but by then it was too late...
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Remember the ABC TV show S.W.A.T. back in the mid to late 70's? The ratings were decent, but ABC
went ahead and gave in to some organization who was demanding the show to be canceled, because
of the violence.
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Just think about all tlhe Money that was made from Star Trek and Dark Shadows after they went off the air.
The networks would now like a part of that.
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Remember the ABC TV show S.W.A.T. back in the mid to late 70's? The ratings were decent, but ABC
went ahead and gave in to some organization who was demanding the show to be canceled, because
of the violence.
That happened to The Wild Wild West too.
Just think about all tlhe Money that was made from Star Trek and Dark Shadows after they went off the air.
CBS owns Star Trek now.
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I remember back in the early to mid 90's, NBC had this show called "I'll Fly Away". The ratings were bad and
NBC kept begging the viewers to watch this show. At that time, I was wondering why NBC did'nt do the
same for DS. [ghost_azn]
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Oh, but "I'll Fly Away" was high-concept. No network ever saw Dark Shadows that way.
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I'm never quite sure what people mean by "high-concept". It sounds great, certainly.
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I too liked the DS remake, flaws and all. I watched it at the time in 1991 but not since. I heard there was a pilot made for the 2004 version but I've never seen it. Is it on DVD?
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Yes there was a pilot made for the 2004 version. Dan Curtis presented it to the WB Network and they
reject it. They will regret it, just like NBC did.
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I saw the pilot at the fest several years ago. TPTB never even gave it a chance. It was really quite interesting and IMO just needed a few changes to the characters and it would have been a hit. They made the Liz character a cartoon and I thought the actor portraying Barnabas was wrong (although he was good looking). There was a fantastic scene were Barnabas is up in a tree and a young woman (I think may have been Maggie) walks down a deserted street and he swoops down and in the blink of an eye, the woman is nowhere to be seen! I'd love to buy the dvd for the pilot if it ever became available. Alas, that will never happen I'm afraid.
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I don't think they really made Liz a cartoon. Yes, she was certainly, uh, effervescent to say the least in the scene where Liz welcomes Vicki to Collinwood - but that could have simply been due to nerves - after all, the subtext for her was that she was welcoming home her own long-lost daughter. Giddiness due to nerves would be a departure from the seemingly always in control Liz of the daytime show. But keep in mind that the '04 pilot was retooling several of the characters. And truthfully Liz was nothing like the way she was in that scene in any of her subsequent scenes - she was much more regal and dignified, no doubt having regained her composure. But then, having one's daughter (Carolyn) attacked by "a vicious animal" can easily do that. Which leads to the fact that it was Carolyn whom Barnabas swooped down from the tree to grab (in one of the pilot's most effective and innovative scenes). And as for Barnabas, I thought Alec Newman was perfectly cast. In fact, I liked the vast majority of the casting. Unfortunately, though, some characters (like Julia) appeared much too briefly to form much of an opinion one way or the other.