DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '08 I => Topic started by: michael c on May 08, 2008, 03:58:27 PM
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i was watching dvd collection three and they had an interview with writer sam hall.
he said a few things about the show that i disagreed with.
one,he refered to the show during the time before barnabas and his tenure as writer as being an "aimless gothic".i thought the show was off to an interesting start.different than what it became but not without merits.
also he stated that before he came on that joan bennett's elizabeth had been an "ill-defined" character.that i disagree with more.if anything joan"s first year on the series was her best and liz got her best material and later on became more more poorly defined when she became something of a backdrop for all of the supernatural characters.
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I agree mscbryk. Sounds like an ego trip on Sam Hall's part.
I think the early episodes were much more an ensemble.
And much the better for it.
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"Aimless gothic?" I think not.
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[ghost_shocked] I apologize for quoting on my prior post.
As far as early DS before Barnabas was an aimless 'gothic', this is totally wrong IMO. I absolutely loved the 'Laura the Phoenix Storyline' and thought some of the best writing occured during that part. I thought that the 'Victoria' kidnapping went on a little too long and despite that, I also liked the Bill Malloy storyline very much.
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[ghost_shocked] I apologize for quoting on my prior post.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with quoting - especially when it's done judiciously. You have absolutely nothing to apologize for. [ghost_smiley]
Our only concern is excessive quoting (which your post was not an example of) - meaning quoting an entire post when one is only replying to one part of it - or worse still, including nested quotes from a post (meaning quotes within quotes) in a reply when they have nothing to do with what one's reply is about or when simply including a passage from the latest post will get the same point across..
Everyone should certainly continue to use the quoting feature - all that we ask is that the parts of posts that have little to no bearing on a reply be edited out. [ghost_wink]
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Considering that Sam Hall recycled several of the storylines into later years using the same and different actors, he shouldn't talk much. Is that the same interview where he says that he had to make sure that he never ended a scene with the last shot on his wife due to her overacting. I found that rather odd.
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I have read other interviews where he complains about Malcolm Mamorstein. He states he couldn't cue Grayson on MM's scripts and that he thought it was terrible to have Barnabas attacking cows.
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Just chiming in here to say that I was also surprised (to put it mildly) by Sam's claim that he and Gordon Russell somehow "gave Joan Bennett more to do" as Liz. I think what he meant was that they created a brilliant storyline for Bennett as Judith (although Naomi is a favorite character of mine, she really wasn't given all that much to do--do note, however, that Naomi's speech about the death of Sarah has to rank as one of the most poignant, quietly heartbreaking moments in the entire series). After the Jason Maguire storyline, Liz just was never written with the kind of spunk, fire, and stern New England backbone the character had shown during the first year of the series.
I also disagree with Sam about Malcolm Marmorstein. I imagine that Sam was so dumbfounded by the notion of a vampire feeding off a cow that he couldn't get beyond the plot to see the great quality of Marmorstein's scripts. To be honest, it's been a really long time since I watched Marmorstein's shows from the summer of '67 when Grayson was being introduced. I do know that Marmorstein's 1966 scripts are some of the best episodes of the series (in my not-so-humble opinion).
And for the record, Grayson *was* able to tone it down and be on camera for the end of a scene without looking like "1967's answer to Mary Pickford" or however Sam described it...
G.
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Naomi's speech about the death of Sarah has to rank as one of the most poignant, quietly heartbreaking moments in the entire series
Indeed. I would go so far as to say that the whole scene is one of the best in the entire series. [thumb]
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Yes. Post-Barnabas, all Elizabeth did was fall in and out of comas (repeatedly) while Julia pronounced her dead (repeatedly). Naomi and Judith had a fair bit to do, but were still more of supporting characters. Flora was a lot of fun, but again, more of a background character. And if anything, at least in my humble opinion, DS started out as a great, focused gothic series that turned into an "aimless time travel show" after 1895, though it did still have its moments.
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Awhile ago, I might have agreed with Sam, at least about the show being aimless gothic. But now, I see the first year in a whole new light. It gave all the characters plenty of screen time and lots to do, they were all used to great advantage, and there was a different dynamic than later on. The stories, especially with Laura, are really quite fascinating to watch.
And I agree with you all that Sam and Gordon really did not give Joan Bennett the kind of material she deserved, at least as far as Elizabeth went. They didn't "save" the character, if anything they weakened her down.
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What a great thread subject. This fits in just fine to where I am now watching the Beginning Collection. I suppose that I am just biased do to my great love for Dark Shadows but I'm loving every minute of it. I suppose it may be different from my point of view because I know where we are going eventually. I am still trying to figure out Burke Devlin, what was his real motive in all that he did? I too totally disagree with the Sam Hall quote. There was nothing aimless about Dark Shadows. I'm falling in love with all the characters all over again and when I'm finished I might just start all over again, aimlessly! [ghost_cheesy]
P.S. Don't worry about me abusing the quote feature, I'm still trying to figure out how to use it, So I just cut and paste and use quotation marks.
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I don't know what Sam was talking about. I strongly disagree. JB/Liz is amazing in these early eps (which I am currently watching) and it saddens me to see her reduced to background scenery later on.
Example: It annoys me to no end that GENERAL HOSPITAL tends to forget their veteran actors. They show up for funerals and weddings and that is about it! *EYE ROLL* The stories on soaps are so much better with the veterans peppered throughout the show. Their simple presence in a scene, brings a touch of history that makes said scene ten times better. I have to give a SHOUT OUT to GENIE FRANCIS/ LAURA SPENCER. Honey I CANNOT wait to see you tomorrow. YAY!
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I recall reading an interview with Louis Edmonds who said that that was what it was like in his later episodes of All My Children; he said that they would roll him and the other "old folks" out for special occasions. He called them the "Come along, Langley" episodes.
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I too read that interview as it was included in Big Lou.
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Ah. I've never read any of Hamrick's books, so I didn't know it was included in Big Lou. Guess I was just posting fairly common knowledge, then. :\
Anyway, I do find it interesting to see Elizabeth and Roger in the early episodes. In the later episodes, they were almost like the idiotic, clueless parents who are staples of countless kids' TV shows now. It was especially nice to see Joan Bennett getting better writing; she was a great actress and they criminally underused her in later storylines. But hey, the guy's got a right to his opinion, even if it is that the show was aimless until he and his wife joined the staff. :P Kidding, of course.
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YOU better be!! I will kill a bitch over Grayson Hall. ROFLOL. JUST JOKIN'! [ghost_cheesy] PROMISE! Mean it!
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Oh, believe me, I have nothing against Grayson Hall whatsoever; she was an enormously talented actress, and it showed in the eps that didn't feature a director who insisted on over-the-top acting (and even in the more melodramatic episodes, she was still quite good!). I can't imagine what the show would have been like without Julia. I'm merely saying that his comments come off slightly egotistical, that's all. I for one am thoroughly enjoying the early eps - in all honesty, far more than some of the post-Barnabas storylines, and calling them aimless seems a bit absurd. Of course, though the Bill Malloy arc was very well-done, the Laura arc does meander a little, but it's still not "aimless."
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Goober....I promise I meant nothing by it. But thanks for writing back. And I agree with you about certain directors. I really like her direction under Henry Kaplan the best. :) Have you read her autobiography?? And I think I already said it but I don't agree with Sam either. Even if you hated Julia/GH I would really respect your opinion. I am kidder, so don't take me too seriously!! [ghost_wink]
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Oh, I know, I was just clarifying to make sure I didn't sound like I hated either of the Halls. [ghost_tongue2]
I watched the episodes in quick succession on DVD, often skipping the end credits, and I've only seen most of the eps once (though they were very recent viewings), so I unfortunately cannot state a specific preference of directors. I didn't know she had written an autobiography; the only GH biography I knew about was A Hard Act to Follow, and I unfortunately haven't read it yet.
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OUT of habit my hands typed auto with bigography. Not she didn't write one herself. Actually Grayson didn't even keep much stuff on herself according to AHATF, so I doubt she would haven't written her own biography!
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I know what DVD collection you are referring to and I have to go back and watch that particular interview because I cannot simply remember what he said about aimless gothic the first year of the series. It didn't even start off as Gothic initially..at least not from my perspective ..it became more Gothic like with the seaweed guy and all that and then Laura and the burning phoenix etc. So aimless no.. maybe planned ..what to do to keep the show on the air another 13 weeks kinda mentality? As far as Joan Bennett, she was such a strong figure in the series [spoiler]up until I felt Rev Trask made potty of her senses. She came back though and walled him up. She was senseless too with the Leviathans but then again she came back strong as ever.[/spoiler] I do think she did become slightly of a backdrop actress. Its a shame though. She was after all Mistress of Collinwood and seemed to me to command a strong sense of respect and acknowledgement. Her mere presence often kept ol Barn in line too!
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Joan Bennett's was The class act of the show in the beginning. Then when Jonathan Frid came on the scene Dark Shadows was the classiest soap or show on the air. [ghost_wink] Together they were the meat the rest of the actors were the complete sandwich that made Dark Shadows the best show ever. [ghost_smiley]
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YOU better be!! I will kill a bitch over Grayson Hall. ROFLOL. JUST JOKIN'! [ghost_cheesy] PROMISE! Mean it!
Taeylor, you have my questionable permission to go nuts and threaten people's lives more often, for what little it's worth. If it could be a little less hip-hop I'd like it more, but the mock-aggression I'm fine with personally! Grayson's cool!
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Sorry Magnus. It's just part of my speech. I am in not way HIP HOP but I am in no way a person who talks one specific way. I am a mix of southern, pop culture, english, etc......I will threaten more lives though if it gives you pleasure!