DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '08 I => Topic started by: retzev on April 07, 2008, 09:39:37 AM
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Is Elizabeth meant to have not left Collinwood the house for 18 years, or Collinwood the estate. As Tim Lucas noted here (http://videowatchdog.blogspot.com/search/label/Dark%20Shadows%20the%20Beginning) : "Her character is said to have never left Collinwood in over 18 years, but one episode opens with her entering the house from a trip outside."
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I believe it means she has not left the estate. She has not gone into the town of Collinsport, but has roamed around on her own property.
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indeed.
at various points in the early episodes we see liz at matthew morgan's cottage,widow's hill,the old house and other locations on the collinwood estate.but she does leave the house itself.
i remember later in the series(after the jason mcquire storyline)when we see liz in town thinking how odd it was to see her away from collinwood.
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When out on the grounds I imagine she had her ears peeled for the sound of the basement door being opened.
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In episode 25, Roger says to Liz: "You haven't been out of this house for 18 years."
If anyone knows or finds other specific episodes with explicit references to Liz'zs 18 years, please post the episode numbers.
Also, when Liz finally does leave Collinwood, is any mention of it made?
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If anyone knows or finds other specific episodes with explicit references to Liz'zs 18 years, please post the episode numbers.
If you perform an Advanced Search for "18 years," quotation marks included, of only the Robservations (open "Choose a board to search in" and check only that box), you will see lots (and lots) of references to it.
Also, when Liz finally does leave Collinwood, is any mention of it made?
A huge deal is made of it, as you can see here--
Robservations 11/27/01 - #259/ ...
Enjoy!
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The episode where Vicki persuades Liz to go into town to try to help Carolyn is one of the best. Joan Bennett was incredible. What a great actress. Moltke and Barrett were also fabulous in that one, of course.
G.
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Liz's 18 years were referred to right back to Episode 1. Episode five reveals that Liz hasn't left the grounds since her husband left her, six months before Carolyn was born (although, it will later be rewritten that Carolyn was a baby when her father left). In Episode 6, Matthew reveals that Liz fired the entire Collinwood staff and hired him, immediately after her husband left. Paul's first name isn't given until Episode 79 when Mrs. Johnson speaks it.
Also, technically, the first time that Liz left the grounds was in Episode 161 when she was sent to a Boston hospital after being put into a coma by Laura Collins.
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It still makes me mad knowing Elizabeth spent all those years at Collinwood for nothing, thanks to a certain smooth-talking snake. [ghost_angry]
SPOILER ALERT:
If Jason hadn't lied to her by telling her she had killed Paul, she could have had a fuller life.
I would have throttled the guy who dared to blackmail me over something that was a complete and total lie.
And it's not difficult either to understand why Elizabeth was so bitter towards Paul later on when he returned to Collinsport during the start of the Leviathan storyline. He abandoned her and Carolyn, tried to steal his own daughter's inheritance. For all she knew, he was still trying to get his hands on some of the Collins fortune and was using Carolyn to do it (of course this wasn't the case but it's not hard to see why Elizabeth would think it was).
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In Jason's defense: he never dreamed that Elizabeth would end up not leaving Collinwood for 18 years. If he had known, I don't think it would have changed his actions - but still, he didn't know.
And I can't quite see Elizabeth as completely innocent in the matter. She did hit Paul with the poker - at least, I think it was a poker - and she could have killed him. And what was she accomplishing by not leaving the estate? As has already been pointed out, she wasn't going to hear anybody breaking and entering the locked room in the basement if she was outside the house.
Anyway, if one has to spend one's whole life in one place, Collinwood isn't such a bad place. Nice woods, a beach, ghosts to tell you bedtime stories...not bad at all.
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In Jason's defense: he never dreamed that Elizabeth would end up not leaving Collinwood for 18 years. If he had known, I don't think it would have changed his actions - but still, he didn't know.
And I can't quite see Elizabeth as completely innocent in the matter. She did hit Paul with the poker - at least, I think it was a poker - and she could have killed him. And what was she accomplishing by not leaving the estate? As has already been pointed out, she wasn't going to hear anybody breaking and entering the locked room in the basement if she was outside the house.
Anyway, if one has to spend one's whole life in one place, Collinwood isn't such a bad place. Nice woods, a beach, ghosts to tell you bedtime stories...not bad at all.
You really think Jason would have cared if he HAD known Elizabeth was shutting herself up away at Collinwood? Hell, no! The fact that he didn't know she would shut herself up at Colllinwood does NOT in any way excuse what he did. He's still a scumbag in my eyes. I really don't see how anyone can defend him for what he did.
Elizabeth and Paul: it had never been her intention to kill Paul...when she hit him with that poker it was a spur-of-the-moment thing. And as Roger pointed out, Paul WAS trying to steal from her.
She winded up hitting him a bit harder than she thought she would. She ended up feeling so much guilt over what she thought she did she couldn't bring herself to leave the estate, perhaps as her punishment.
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IluvBarnabas, I'd like to know - or maybe I wouldn't like to know - how many times in your life you have hit a man so violently as to render him unconscious - either on the spur of the moment, or in cold blood.
I myself (full disclosure here) have never done it. Alack-a-day, if I were a soap opera character, I would be so boring that I wouldn't last more than an episode.
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Indeed, the Jason storyline was magnificent. Great acting on all parts. Being pre-Barnabas for most of the time, it remains little known outside of DS fanatics. I don't ever recall in later years a mention that Liz had not left the estate for 18 years. Such a strong and dominant woman, yet too fearful to leave home. Great job by the great Joan Bennett.
Sally
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IluvBarnabas, I'd like to know - or maybe I wouldn't like to know - how many times in your life you have hit a man so violently as to render him unconscious - either on the spur of the moment, or in cold blood.
I'm happy to say I've never had an occasion to strike anyone, intentionally or unintentionally. Hopefully, I'll never see such a time rise up.
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In episode 25, Roger says to Liz: "You haven't been out of this house for 18 years."
If anyone knows or finds other specific episodes with explicit references to Liz'zs 18 years, please post the episode numbers.
Also, when Liz finally does leave Collinwood, is any mention of it made?
she hasn't been off the grounds. remember she trapses over to Matthew Morgan's house.
the eppy that she goes out is when something happens and she's the only one around and has to go down tothe sherriff's office. you have to kind of say, "hm, SHE WENT OUT?" and then after that, it's Bangor, Boston and the crypt for nice long nap.
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Also, technically, the first time that Liz left the grounds was in Episode 161 when she was sent to a Boston hospital after being put into a coma by Laura Collins.
oops, i mispoke. (i haven't done all the Beginnings yet.)
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No biggie... it's not easy to keep track of 1225 episodes of a TV show. [ghost_blink]
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Also, technically, the first time that Liz left the grounds was in Episode 161 when she was sent to a Boston hospital after being put into a coma by Laura Collins.
oops, i mispoke. (i haven't done all the Beginnings yet.)
In a way you're both right. Yes, Liz technically left the estate when she was taken to the hospital, but it certainly wasn't of her own accord as she was in a catatonic state and had no idea whatsoever what was happening. It wasn't until Ep #259 that she left of her own free will and under her own power - and that's much more significant.
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I wonder did anybody like Miss Johnson went out and shopped new clothes for Elizabeth, if she
stayed at Collinwood for 18 years?
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Mrs. johnson wasn't there in the beginning, only Matthew, and I somehow doubt for all he did, Elizabeth would have trusted him to pick out her wardrobe. My bet is she mail ordered or had them brought to her house where she could pick them out herself and have them tailored.
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I can see Elizabeth having someone come out to Collinwood with samples of styles appropriate for a wealthy matron. Her clothes always looked smart and modern. She would definitely have had fittings for her suits.
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i'm imagining a smart 'ladie's shop' in portland or bangor that the women of the collins family had been patronizing for many years.
perhaps the proprietress sends styles over she thinks liz would like along with a seamstress for minor alterations.
liz was always rather smartly attired for a recluse...a wardrobing decision i think had as much to do with joan bennetts' status as it did the character's.
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i'm imagining a smart 'ladie's shop' in portland or bangor that the women of the collins family had been patronizing for many years.
perhaps the proprietress sends styles over she thinks liz would like along with a seamstress for minor alterations.
liz was always rather smartly attired for a recluse...a wardrobing decision i think had as much to do with joan bennetts' status as it did the character's.
Goodness people! she had an account with O'rBahchs......they used to mail her her outfits out of the catalog from NYC!
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perhaps the proprietress sends styles over she thinks liz would like along with a seamstress for minor alterations.
Whether it was Bangor Basics or Ohrbach's, there is a fine fan fiction story waiting to be written about that seamstress.
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Talk is cheap. A good thing, too!
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Are you talking about me? I've already said I'm too lazy to write fan fiction.
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Goodness people! she had an account with O'rBahchs......they used to mail her her outfits out of the catalog from NYC!
No, it was probably at Brewsters. [ghost_smiley]
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Are you talking about me? I've already said I'm too lazy to write fan fiction.
I have no memory of that post of mine, but I think I was just being me, perhaps unfortunately. A completely unserious post. A make-believe chiding. Then I expressed appreciation for the fact that no one chareges me for being a windbag.
I didn't find this thread again till now, after you directed me to it in a PM. I seem to miss a lot of new posts or replies to my posts. Clicking on Recent Unread Posts doesn't point me to all of them.
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I have no memory of that post of mine, but I think I was just being me, perhaps unfortunately.
You might want to consider the possibility that you were possessed at the time you made that post.
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One wonders if possession is like being drunk? You know how they always say no one would ever do anything drunk that they wouldn't actually be capable of doing while sober - it's just that everyone's inhibitions are relaxed while drunk. [ghost_wink]
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Well, I can think of one horrifying thing that David did while possessed that he had previously done of his own accord, so perhaps your speculation is correct, MB.
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As I recall Brewsters was a mens and boys clothing store in Collinsport. I seem to recall an episode where Liz and Carolyn took him shopping and came back with a clothing box with the name 'Brewster's' on it. Now, that I think of it, it might not have been in Collinsport. Maybe they drove over to Rockport or Bangor.
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'brewsters' became something of a major destination during the leviathan storyline with characters seeming to stop by almost daily...
with everything else going on during this period that everyone had the time to do something really ordinary like shop at a department store amused me to no end when i watched it.