DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '07 II => Topic started by: testokes on August 27, 2007, 04:22:46 PM

Title: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: testokes on August 27, 2007, 04:22:46 PM
I had a few questions about the Lang/Adam storyline era as I had never seen most of those episodes until buying the DVD's lately.

After Dr. Lang dies how do Barnabas and Julia keep coming to his house to conduct the experiment and chat?  Did he leave it to them in his will or something? It would seem to make more sense if they had transported the equipment into Barnabas' basement rather than leave things as they are.  The town seems to know he's dead as well.

It's hinted at, but how much do Professor Stokes and Cassandra know about each other?  He seems to know something about the portrait of Angelique and Cassandra was his student right?

Overall I have to say I have been thoroughly enjoying these episodes.  Could do with a bit more Carolyn, Roger and Elizabeth (or was Joan Bennett away) and little less Barnabas and Julia (The two best characters IMO but they are in nearly every scene for 25 episodes) but the double stories of Adam and the Dream Curse are well set up.
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: testokes on August 27, 2007, 04:25:09 PM
Oh yeah one further question - is it around this time that Alexandra Moltke starts to think about leaving? She really has very little to do in most of these episodes though her scene with JF where she think it's her fault he's leaving is nicely played.
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: David on August 27, 2007, 06:24:52 PM
Barnabas & Julia simply let themselves into Lang's house to do as they pleased~~just as Julia moved into Collinwood & never left.
No explanation was ever offered on either count.

Alexandra had wanted to leave DS fairly early on, but was stuck to the show via contract.
Now an acclaimed documentary filmaker, Alexandra was/is an intellectual, and didn't like Victoria's naive stupidity.
She was quoted saying so in a 1968 interview in the New York Post.

Her actual departure from the show was abrupt, caused by her real life pregnancy.

David
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: testokes on August 27, 2007, 10:04:58 PM
Well I think Julia staying on could be explained by Elizabeth liking her and letting her stay on. At some point Barnabas probably put in a good word as well.  It's just rather amusing that a dead man's house has people just coming and going.  I suppose it's JUST plausible that once he knew Cassandra was after him, Dr. Lang changed his will to make Barnabas the beneficiary.

The other thing I noticed is how unimportant Collinwood itself is becoming.  Far more action takes place in Dr. Lang's house or the Old House.

Willie Loomis return was a good moment but so far not much has been done with him.  It's a far cry from the days where he and Frid were in just about every other scene together.
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: Brandon Collins on August 27, 2007, 10:38:11 PM
I always enjoyed the Adam storyline when I first saw it. The beginning isn't too bad. But once you get through some of it and Adam does nothing but moan, and you here that Lang tape 500 times, it gets old, real fast. And after the Dream Curse is over, Adam takes over the entire show, involving nearly everything and everyone.

I can't enjoy even the beginning of the storyline anymore, because I KNOW what's coming.
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: michael c on August 28, 2007, 12:19:01 AM
when i first watched these episodes a few years ago i was devastated by the overall change in tone and direction of the show.

now doing a secondary watch it was inevitable that i come to this again and watched several episodes over the weekend...and loathed it just as much as i remember.

there are some dream curse/cassandra/nicholas moments that i can get into but in general i hate 1968 across the boards.being a big fan of both joan and alexandra i agree that they are largely wasted here(although vicki does get some key moments during the dream curse).

i definitely overdose on barnabas and julia here and i hate that the writers let this dumb adam character hijack the entire show for nearly a year. >:(
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: David on August 28, 2007, 03:03:04 AM
Sam,  Gordon & Ron  must have done something right~~the ratings were still going up in 1968!

A few god things from '68:

Elizabeth's fear of death & live burial.

Eve, a wonderful character.

The Vicki/Jeff Clark/Peter connection.

Tom and Chris Jennings.

Eve's one day journey to 1796.

Barnabas' 3 day return to 1796.

Nicholas Blair~~was he creepy or what!!!

and my 1968 fave:
Angelique as a vampire!

Yes, Adam was the year's weakest link, but there was still a lot of fun stuff going on in 1968!

David
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: Willie on August 28, 2007, 01:20:39 PM
I vaguely remember Barnabas saying something about having to "clean up some papers" or something to that effect after Lang died.  I assumed he was the executor of Lang's will, and therefore would have had to go through all of his stuff and pack it up and give it to his heirs or something - of course no heirs ever showed up.

I guess I feel about the same way as everyone else about the whole Adam storyline, it was pretty good at the beginning but it just went on way too long.  I didn't care for what the actor playing Adam did with the character, he was just too arrogant and therefore unsympathetic.  When Nicolas and Angelique and Eve finally became the main sotryline, I LOVED that.  Nicolas is always so much fun to watch.
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: Midnite on August 28, 2007, 05:44:56 PM
It's hinted at, but how much do Professor Stokes and Cassandra know about each other?  He seems to know something about the portrait of Angelique and Cassandra was his student right?

Yes, he was her faculty adviser and responsible for introducing Roger to Cassandra.  (He seemed to make a habit of having students visit him at home, which always struck me as weird.)  Anyway, I'm not sure if you've reached #488-- if not, this would be a Spoiler:
but in that ep Stokes was genuinely surprised when Barnabas revealed to him that witch he knew existed was actually Cassandra.  Barnabas provided the information in exchange for Stokes' help in dealing with the dream curse.


I vaguely remember Barnabas saying something about having to "clean up some papers" or something to that effect after Lang died.  I assumed he was the executor of Lang's will, and therefore would have had to go through all of his stuff and pack it up and give it to his heirs or something - of course no heirs ever showed up.

I suspect you're thinking of his attorney Tony Peterson, who went to Lang's house to clean up his estate and seemingly was the only person to go through his papers for legal purposes.  Of course Julia also went through his papers, and more, to learn how to perform the experiment.
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: Willie on August 28, 2007, 07:36:11 PM
I suspect you're thinking of his attorney Tony Peterson, who went to Lang's house to clean up his estate and seemingly was the only person to go through his papers for legal purposes.  Of course Julia also went through his papers, and more, to learn how to perform the experiment.

I was thinking of when Jeff Clark went over to Lang's to look through his stuff, and Barnabas was there.  I think Barn's excuse was that he was looking through his papers or something.  He seemed to sound like he had the right to do that...I dunno.  I just got the impression that Barnabas was in charge of tidying up Lang's estate (or at least that was his excuse for being around there so much).  But I'm probably wrong  ;D
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: Midnite on August 28, 2007, 08:15:33 PM
I was thinking of when Jeff Clark went over to Lang's to look through his stuff, and Barnabas was there.  I think Barn's excuse was that he was looking through his papers or something.  He seemed to sound like he had the right to do that...I dunno.  I just got the impression that Barnabas was in charge of tidying up Lang's estate (or at least that was his excuse for being around there so much).  But I'm probably wrong  ;D

No, no, you're right about what he said to Jeff.  But Barnabas was lying (he was waiting for Julia and totally focused on the experiment), and then he and Jeff all but admitted that neither actually had a right to be there.
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: testokes on August 28, 2007, 09:50:13 PM
What's funny about this is how many people just come and go through Dr. Lang's house.  Victoria, Elizabeth, Jeff, Julia and Barnabas all just come and go.  At no point does Elizabeth seem the slightest bit perturbed that cousin Barnabas is helping himself through a dead man's home at will.

I certainly wish Thayer David was in more episodes, he brings so much with so little to Professor Stokes.

I'm actually all the way up to 506 now, partly because the volume 8 I bought from MPI was missing Disc One (I called and they said they would mail a replacement, how reliable are they?) so I missed 493-502 but other than Sam nearly offing Angelique and more ripping off of James Whale doesn't look like I missed much.

My viewing will def slow down with my vacation being over today.
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: madscntst on August 28, 2007, 10:12:24 PM
Maybe I'm the only one who actually liked the Adam storyline   ;D (though I agree that it did go on too long).  I rather liked how the character changed over time, especially after Nicholas started manipulating him.  I was glad enough when it ended, but I never felt as bored as with some other storylines (Leviathans, and the pre-1840 episodes).

As for people just giving themselves permission to go into other people's houses, I wonder if it was just that in the 60's, there was less cynicism about crime, and in small towns where everyone knew each other, they could get away with just acting like they belonged there without anyone really questioning it (much).

Cathy
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: adamsgirl on August 28, 2007, 11:03:02 PM
In defense of Robert Rodan's portrayal of Adam, I think that given what he had to work with (a rather ridiculous storyline), he did very well. He managed to convey such a sweetness and innocence, particularly when he fell in love with Carolyn. He was also able to show us how he truly didn't understand why he couldn't be her "boyfriend." Then, in his anger, it was easy for Nicholas to manipulate him. I also liked that he was pretty much a genius and able to learn so quickly. A lesser actor wouldn't have been able to do all that Rodan did with this stuff, IMHO.

Then again, look at my handle, right? LOL! >:D
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: Miss_Winthrop on September 01, 2007, 11:32:34 PM
I did lose sympathy for him when he was being manipulated by Eve and became whiny.  I loved the scenes between Eve and Nicholas.  There was a lot of fire between them!  The beginning scenes with Adam and Carolyn are some of my favorites and they both played them so well.  I think I really began to admire the work of Nancy Barrett at that point.
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: MagnusTrask on September 02, 2007, 03:17:26 AM
Quote
I didn't care for what the actor playing Adam did with the character, he was just too arrogant and therefore unsympathetic.

The lines were that way... I don't think there was any other way to read them.

After seeing 1968 for the first time since 1968, recently, I'm still reeling a bit from losing that classic great middle-period DS that I had known was waiting for me to see again... I didn't remember specifics, but I "knew" 1968 was going to be great when I got it.   It wasn't.   It's as if someone I Chinged back to 1968 and forced them to do DS differently, than the 1968 DS I saw as a kid.    That classic period doesn't exist.

After this, I have had to reappraise the storylines.    I just went through to the end of DS, and not only is 1841 PT no longer my least favorite (that's 1968 now), but if judged by different criteria, with different expectations than we generally have for DS, it's pretty good.  1841 PT is like the start of a new series, more a romance with supernatural undertones.   They may have planned more adult content for later storylines... it seemed they were headed that way.    If they'd changed the music it would have helped... R Cobert's celloes are inappropriate in many of the romantic scenes, when someone's bitterly jealous or feelings are involved rather than supernatural threats.    It was like a new show, set in the same two houses with the same cast.

I can't fight the "camp" accusation anymore, after seeing 1968.    And the writing hit bottom.   The voiceovers often seem written at the last minute by anyone who was around.      Events and lines don't make sense and are awkwardly written. 

SPOILER



Barnabas breaking into Blair's house to kill Eve with a hypodermic?   Why even do it, and he's a one-man burglary and assassination squad now?

No disrespect intended to anyone who likes this era.  I hope I find things to like in it someday.  It starts out great.
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: Brandon Collins on September 02, 2007, 05:32:16 AM
I have to agree with you, Magnus, in the respect that when I just recently rewatched 1841 PT, I gained a new appreciated for it. I rather like it now, having been able to watch the whole series without interruption curtosey of the SciFi channels frequent movements and episode mixups. 1841PT was certainly better, IMO, than 1970PT, and ranks up there with some of my favorite moments.

Brutus' ghost was just a HOOT, I say H-O-O-T, to watch!
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: michael c on September 02, 2007, 05:44:41 PM
i bitched about the 1968 episodes endlessly when i first watched them so i'll try not to repeat myself too much here.

one thing i will say is that with the adam storyline the writers for the first time very actively began to court those proverbial "kids that ran home from school" as it's target audience.the previous three storylines(laura,early barnabas,1795)had supernatual characters at their center but where in many ways plotted like traditional soap operas and with a more adult sensibility.this stuff is extremely adolescent.the tone is shrill,the plotting ridiculous,the pacing off and as has been said it is with these episodes that the show aquires it's "camp" reputation.i also find it terrible the way the original characters are handled here and it's no wonder many of the are gone by year's end.

i said when i first watched them i would never watch them again.i tried to give them a second chance recently thinking i might have softened on them but i haven't.adam stinks as far as i'm concerned.
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: David on September 02, 2007, 06:21:23 PM
i bitched about the 1968 episodes endlessly when i first watched them so i'll try not to repeat myself too much here.

one thing i will say is that with the adam storyline the writers for the first time very actively began to court those proverbial "kids that ran home from school" as it's target audience.the previous three storylines(laura,early barnabas,1795)had supernatual characters at their center but where in many ways plotted like traditional soap operas and with a more adult sensibility.this stuff is extremely adolescent.the tone is shrill,the plotting ridiculous,the pacing off and as has been said it is with these episodes that the show aquires it's "camp" reputation.i also find it terrible the way the original characters are handled here and it's no wonder many of the are gone by year's end.

i said when i first watched them i would never watch them again.i tried to give them a second chance recently thinking i might have softened on them but i haven't.adam stinks as far as i'm concerned.


and yet, Quentin & the haunting of Collinwood was pretty spooky stuff, and a lot of 1897 was
rather sophisticated in it's storytelling.

All this after 1968.......

David
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: michael c on September 02, 2007, 08:29:24 PM
i agree.

i love the quentin storyline and 1897 and am even quite fond of leviathan and 1970pt...my comments were specific to the adam storyline.there are just too many monsters and it's just too silly.
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: MagnusTrask on September 03, 2007, 04:42:59 AM
I always think of Nightie-Fest '68, held outside Collinwood, attended by Angelique and Eve, in white and black respectively.     Each had been three or four different "creatures".
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: David on September 04, 2007, 08:27:11 AM
I always think of Nightie-Fest '68, held outside Collinwood, attended by Angelique and Eve, in white and black respectively.     Each had been three or four different "creatures".

I have to admit that the thought of Angelique & Eve paradng around a small, desolate fishing village in those gowns & heels is a laugh riot!!!

David
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: Gothick on September 04, 2007, 08:37:07 PM
This is in response to the original post from testokes:

Since you say you're new, you may not be aware that *a lot* of how the Dark Shadows storylines evolved (or failed to evolve) was directly dictated by Dan Curtis.  There's an interview with Sam Hall from the 1980s that is cited in a lot of the books available on the history where Sam recalls saying to Dan more than once, "Dan, please, can we NOT do x, y or z" and Dan would respond:  "Are you writing the show or not?  If you don't want to do it, I can get other people to write this show, you know!"  Odd though it may seem today, Adam apparently generated lots of positive fan mail from the kids who had become a big chunk of the show's audience back in 1968.  I remember reading about this at the time and thinking it odd although I was only ten years old myself in '68.

According to Robert Rodan's reminscences out at the LA Festivals, Adam's abrupt departure from the show occurred when the actor requested a raise.  (The same thing happened to Lisa Richards, too.)

I still think the 1968 storyline with Adam, Cassandra, Nicholas, the Dream Curse and Eve included some of the best moments from the show.   I won't bother to do a laundry-list here because I've already done so in MANY other threads that bash this period of the show's history.  I do find it interesting that people who detest this period of the show are more than willing to cheerfully ignore the longueurs and imbecilities of other periods in the series.  As I have said before, I regard Dark Shadows as a patchwork of shining moments and lacklustre misfires--sometimes this was the case even within a specific episode!

G.
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: Joy Collins on September 05, 2007, 12:43:04 AM
Welcome, testokes! I'm new here myself.  :)

I really liked the Dream Curse - it was a little silly, I thought, but I couldn't help but love it.
I also really like the Adam story. I will admit that it went on a bit too long, but overall I enjoyed it. I couldn't stand Eve, though. After she got there was when that story started to really go downhill, I thought.
Dr. Lang was a hoot! I was sort of sad when he got killed.
I think Barnabas and Julia kept hanging around his house just to finish the experiment. Once Adam came to life they stopped going there, I believe.
I think all Stokes new about Cassandra/Angelique is that she was a witch. He may or may not have know that they were the same person. It's been a while since I've seen these, so I don't really remember.


Joy.
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: MagnusTrask on September 05, 2007, 01:50:22 AM
Not knowing the book Frankenstein, as a kid I think I liked the Adam story because it was the first time I'd seen the Frankenstein story done without his being a "monster" and where he was (said to be) intelligent and sympathetic. 

Now, I actually start liking things a little when Eve shows up.   For one thing, it stops the Adam-Barnabas arguments.
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: Devlin66 on September 05, 2007, 10:42:55 AM
Eve was so hot looking in that black nighty thing she wore and i loved the scenes with her and Blair......at times i think she was getting Nicholas hot to trot...too bad he had an agenda. >:D
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: loril54 on September 05, 2007, 06:37:28 PM
I wondering if they were trying to get the young boys to watch with all those "Nighties"?  ::)
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: David on September 05, 2007, 07:47:18 PM
 ;D
some of those young boys may have wanted to wear those nighties!

David

I wondering if they were trying to get the young boys to watch with all those "Nighties"?  ::)
Title: Re: Newbie with some storyline questions - anyone care to help?
Post by: MagnusTrask on September 05, 2007, 07:54:24 PM
Someone must photoshop nightied Eve onto a sidewalk scene that could pass for Collinsport...