DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '07 I => Topic started by: Phil on June 03, 2007, 08:19:18 PM
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I'm hip-deep in Dream Curse episodes. Is it me, or did Willie come out of that mental hospital WAY worse than he went in? He's suddenly got a Maggie fetish, wants to kill Joe Haskell, taunts Adam. Remind me to not get help with any mental issues in Collingswood.
It's so much fun seeing eps I've never seen before, even if logic didn't renew its contract. Adam is interesting so far - you can tell they like lighting that Frankenbrow of his.
Cured Barnabas with rosy cheeks! That's an adjustment. My wife and I are sad we don't have more Dr. Lang. He's a hoot.
Julia dumps her dream onto Mrs. Johnson, then smacks Mrs Johnson around for wanting to tell David. You can almost hear Grayson Hall shrieking "Do as I SAY, not as I do!"
Maggie's dad is back! Without his beard! Was his absence due to marrying Nancy Barrett? She seems to be on break as well.
If this family is so rich, why are Cassandra and Elizabeth time-sharing that electric green coat?
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I really enjoyed the dream curse as well. It was so corny but it was the type of cornyness I love. The Adam storyline was pretty good at the beginning, but after a while... :( I also liked Dr. Lang, he was a good Dark Shadows character. Loved his harpoon collection ;D
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In episode 311 Vickie is also wearing the ugly green coat. If this is the same one.
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Just an update, she is wearing the green coat with a purple dress that does look nice on her. That is the purple dress. ;D
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the ineffectiveness of wyndcliff recently came up on another topic("whatever happened to joe haskell").
it was a pretty hack facility.one generally walked out worse for the wear.
what was willie doing in a mental institution anyways?he was shot by the police and next thing you know he's insane but physically well.i don't really see the connection.a stay at wyndcliff generally meant that a particular actor needed time off or was leaving the show.it was something of a depository leaving an opening for that character/actor to return rather than permanently killing them off.
the dream curse was cheesy but fun.
i think electric-green coats must have been fashionable in 1968 because liz,cassandra and vicki(vicki's is a bit more of a "mint")all get one.i don't think they share it.it seemed like green was cassandra's unofficial shade.in general cassandra's wardrobe was pretty dizzying. ::)
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Good point about Willie, honestly, he was a suspect in a kidnapping and possibly attempted murder. Would Julia and Barnabas really have been able to remove him from Windcliff so easily as they did?
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Apparently, given it was her hospital, Julia could do anything. Admitting/discharging patients (no matter under what circumstances), "borrowing" drugs, commandeering medical equipment - it was all within her purview. :D
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The Collinsport police department never seemed to question anything a member of the Collins family did. If Barnabas wanted Willie released & back at the Old House, well, I'm surprised the Sheriff didn't drive Willie back to Collinsport! And I'm sure the local law enforcement had their palms greased with all that Collins money. Maybe that's why George Patterson eventually disappeared - he used all that money he was bribed with for retirement in a nice condo down in Florida. I always got the impression the Collins family really ran the town & the public servants always adhered to the status quo. Also, I'm sure Julia could deliver all sorts of psychobabble to Sheriff Patterson & convince him it was safe to have Willie back on the streets of Collinsport.
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Didn't Patterson get
SPOILER
killed and zombified by Jebez?
Willie had amnesia, that was the reason for the commitment I think.
As for mental 'hospitals', Willie was lucky. In real life, he would have experienced damage to the brain from forced anti-psychotic drugs. He would have been considered 'improved' after that, but disconnectedness and apathy from the drugs look like improvement to psychiatrists, who judge sanity by whether the subject is agitated, or instead, "manageable". In extreme cases the results can be a sort of zombification... certainly "manageable" but not beneficial.
It's a complicated subject, which is hardly ever talked about in public. Perfectly in keeping with a horror TV show, actually. It's not that psychiatry fails with all patients... it's just that the proportion of failure and damage to patients' lives is very high.
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Actually that was Sheriff Davenport.
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Willie had amnesia, that was the reason for the commitment I think.
As for mental 'hospitals', Willie was lucky. In real life, he would have experienced damage to the brain from forced anti-psychotic drugs. He would have been considered 'improved' after that, but disconnectedness and apathy from the drugs look like improvement to psychiatrists, who judge sanity by whether the subject is agitated, or instead, "manageable". In extreme cases the results can be a sort of zombification... certainly "manageable" but not beneficial.
It's a complicated subject, which is hardly ever talked about in public. Perfectly in keeping with a horror TV show, actually. It's not that psychiatry fails with all patients... it's just that the proportion of failure and damage to patients' lives is very high.
Agreed.
What I hate about this storyline is that Willie comes back as a sort of baffoon. He's lost all of his street-sense smarts and cow tows to Barnabas and Julia's demands. He is aware of right and wrong, but cannot positively connect with what he should do.
"Hey, dig up a coffin for me."
It's just like the audio dramas. I can't stand the way they portray Willie. He's an oaf and a loser. No. He is not. He's a complicated man with a bad history. So why did DC make him out to be a bafoon?
As far as Wyndecliffe is concerned, I suppose they were doing their best at the time; with what they had to work with back then.
I dunno. Somebody said earlier that Willie seemed to come out of it for the worse and I think they are right. He was not rehabilitated properly. But that's a soap for you.
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Soon after Willie was injured, Julia mentioned to Barnabas that Willie had been taken off to an institution for the criminally insane. And then, nearly a year later, we find out that Willie's at Windcliff, so he must have been moved at some point. I daresay Barnabas got antsy about the possibility that Willie would remember the whole story and somebody might actually believe him, so he got Julia to get Willie transferred to Windcliff. That's speculation, however, and if it did happen that way, then I'm surprised that the authorities agreed to the move - but that's our Julia for you, always ready with a lie and a smile to get what she wants.
I also liked Dr. Lang, he was a good Dark Shadows character. Loved his harpoon collection
There was a picture in the daily slideshow on the appropriate date a while back, of Roger taking aim with a harpoon while Dr. Lang leaned over, and it looked as though the harpoon might go into Dr. Lang the back way.
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I wish there had been a scene at the C'port Hospital where a couple of doctors were seen discussing a case (perhaps Joe Haskell's?) and one of them shook his head and commented wearily "But to get anything done, we'd have to go up to Windcliff--and that means crossing that BATTLEAXE, Julia Hoffman!" And the other would shrug, sigh and agree that such an exercise would be a pointless waste of time and energy.
I did love it when Sebastian referred to her as "that WITCH of a Doctor." All the more amusing given her frequent run-ins with Cass/Angelique.
Also loved the one scene where Liz slyly informed Julia that she was onto her little game of social manipulation and deception (in the '67 storyline). Great stuff.
cheers, G.
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julia was the fastest talker that there was. Maybe Julia had dope on a lot of people in Collinsport, they had to take a vacation and Wyndcliff once and awhile.
If Julia wanted to win she should have put Barnabas under her care at Wyndcliff ::)
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Willie wasn't handled well, but I think in 1968, no one came across well usually, except Stokes and Blair, oh, and Eve. It's just occurred to me that during Adam, Barnabas isn't the slightest bit interesting as a character. He's totally unecessary except that his not being there would have been conspicuous. Willie... I'm confused as to why he becomes a big booster of Barnabas's, as soon as he's not under his control. nothing panics Willie more than the possibility that -- oh no-- Barnabas might be in trouble!!! I say he's under more hypnotic control than when BC was a vampire! Where'd the loyalty come from? Is Willie seen as a sort of dog, who gets loyal from familiarity?
I'm now at the point where Ang and Eve just happen to run into each other just outside Collinwood and they have a conversation, in their white and black nighties, respectively... just a vampire and former ghost and witch, and a Bride of Frankenstein and former ghost and French Revolution maniac, shootin' the breeze, hanging around a remote giant mansion, near a small town in Maine..... some producers are never more dangerous than when they're actively involved.... DC, Rick Berman......
Willie's not an oaf. JK and Clarice Blackburn brought a reality to DS when everything else was leaving the ground and flying into never-never land... when the lines permitted it. CB reacting to Barnabas getting strangled was great. Willie was the worst overactor in the Dream, but I guess he saw how awful it was, and that it was up to the actors to convince people it was scary when the hospital vending machine would have been scarier. He was trying to do the impoissible so no wonder he failed.
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I say he's under more hypnotic control than when BC was a vampire! Where'd the loyalty come from? Is Willie seen as a sort of dog, who gets loyal from familiarity?
I does come across that way at times. But when Willie reappears, they go out of their way to make it clear that somehow Willie has turned things all around and believes Barn was his friend, not his master/tormentor. That had sort of begun with his amnesia after being shot - but one might also suspect Willie must have been given some great reality distorting drugs at Windcliff! [wink2]
just a vampire and former ghost and witch, and a Bride of Frankenstein and former ghost and French Revolution maniac, shootin' the breeze, hanging around a remote giant mansion, near a small town in Maine.....
Don't you love it! :D
some producers are never more dangerous than when they're actively involved....
Amen to that! ::)
CB reacting to Barnabas getting strangled was great.
Indeed.
Willie was the worst overactor in the Dream, but I guess he saw how awful it was, and that it was up to the actors to convince people it was scary when the hospital vending machine would have been scarier. He was trying to do the impoissible so no wonder he failed.
Now, don't you make fun of wolf-head-on-a-stick. :) Though, of course, it's not half as frightening as skull-with-eyes-on-a-stick. [b003]
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The Dream might have been saved, with design ideas, requiring no more special effects. I saw the green skull and thought instantly how great it could have been, to start off with that, but in the space of just a few seconds, switch to a blue-screened shot of the same skull, filling up more than the entire screen, with a black silhouetted figure from the back, that of the dreamer, very tiny at the bottom of the screen. Perhaps the skull could be seen expanding impossibly fast, to fill the screen. The skull would, in no time, have become twenty stories tall in relation to the dreamer. That's scary.
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That would have been an excellent effect. [thumb] But considering that DS was pretty much inventing the technique of blue screen effects as they went along and doing things that no one had ever done before, they probably can't really be faulted too much for not coming up with something that elaborate. ;) Sometimes they were just lucky to pull off the simple stuff successfully. :D
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It seemed simple to me, unless you can't change the size of something onscreen. Just zooming in or out I would think. I wouldn't know of course. You could use a toy for the dreamer, maybe.
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If this family is so rich, why are Cassandra and Elizabeth time-sharing that electric green coat?
There may have been an allocation of ugly coats - one per household. ^-^
Nancy
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If it was the same coat, I'm surprised no one has come up with what must surely be the most obvious explanation: loving sisters often share. [wink2] ;D
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They did use a film of real bats for Mrs. Johnson's dream, they could have found film footage of a wolf for Willies.
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Perhaps Willie suffered from Stockholm Syndrome?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
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Sometimes completely banal things are terrifying in dreams; as such, that dog head on a stick would have freaked me out had I seen it in a dream.
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Then it could have been a banana on a stick!
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Willie's not an oaf. JK and Clarice Blackburn brought a reality to DS when everything else was leaving the ground and flying into never-never land... when the lines permitted it. CB reacting to Barnabas getting strangled was great. Willie was the worst overactor in the Dream, but I guess he saw how awful it was, and that it was up to the actors to convince people it was scary when the hospital vending machine would have been scarier. He was trying to do the impoissible so no wonder he failed.
Willie is not an oaf. He is portrayed as one. As he is in the audio dramas. That bugs me.
My thoughts on the dream curse/Willie is that they gave Mr. Karlen the script and he had fun with it. I love it. I laugh my butt off every time I see it. I have a feeling JK had a ball with it.
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Willie wasn't handled well, but I think in 1968, no one came across well usually, except Stokes and Blair, oh, and Eve. It's just occurred to me that during Adam, Barnabas isn't the slightest bit interesting as a character. He's totally unecessary except that his not being there would have been conspicuous. Willie... I'm confused as to why he becomes a big booster of Barnabas's, as soon as he's not under his control. nothing panics Willie more than the possibility that -- oh no-- Barnabas might be in trouble!!! I say he's under more hypnotic control than when BC was a vampire! Where'd the loyalty come from? Is Willie seen as a sort of dog, who gets loyal from familiarity
I agree that the Adam/Barnabas story wasn't the most exciting storyline during this time, I wouldn't go so far as to say Barnabas' presence was unnecessary or that he wasn't interesting at all during this time. He still had to fight off Cassandra/Angelique's attempts to put the curse back on him with the dream curse, he saved Julia from the clutches of vamp Tom, he himself was enslaved by Angelique the vamp. (It was very fascinating to watch Barnabas be put Willie's shoes as the slave as a vampire....not to mention it was great fun to watch).
As for Willie's sudden loyalty to Barnabas when he returns to Windcliff....I can only say there was stuff going on there that we didn't get to see. I wish the writers had shown more of their 'understanding' because it is kind of weird to see Willie suddenly devoted to the man who had enslaved him as a vamp and let him take the rap for Maggie's kidnapping!
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I envy you the resilience of your Barney admiration. 1968 is now recoloring my entire picture of BC. I've moved on to the 80% or so of 1897 that I have. BC is at his most riveting and creepiest during what I have of the Laura storyline, even while supposedly being heroic. I think he's at his DS peak here. Post-Laura, they throw more color into his face, he starts talking about helping people like Q selflessly, and the alarming gravity goes. BC could have used some of that anti-hero vibe as a context for his upcoming Carl decisions. Right now, he's making mistakes right and left, leading up to his worst mistake ever, possibly. I now realize Barnabas never got good at problem-solving.
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True, but he wasn't really helping Quentin selflessly, his main goal was to save David and find a cure for Chris. At that point in the storyline I don't really think B & Q liked each other all that much, they certainly didn't trust each other at all. I agree about the gravity though. Before Laura's demise there's all this talk about changing history, everyone is a threat of some sort, and there appears to be a time limit on Barnabas accomplishing his goals... after that things just kind of go INSANE and the changing history concerns fall WAY off the wayside.
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Just by going there he changed history. I really like to see B and J and A, working together. You don't see that to often. That is during the 1897 period. I actually think it was a little to long. I hope that it didn't take them that long to come up the the Leviathan period. :P
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True, but he wasn't really helping Quentin selflessly, his main goal was to save David and find a cure for Chris. At that point in the storyline I don't really think B & Q liked each other all that much, they certainly didn't trust each other at all. I agree about the gravity though.
Helping Jennings and David to the exclusion of all else was, I don't know, myopic.... it puts BC into the role of a cliched hero, who does things because he's "good". I've only just been made aware of the fact that 1897 didn't start intentionally. BC's being trapped, then having to find a purpose in being there, makes dramatic sense to me. He can't return as far as he knows, but even while trapped as a vampire in the past, he can do some good... that I can understand. As long as he's facing the fact that he appears to be trapped. BC rushing around to fix 1969 in 1897, because, well, that's what heroes do, I don't understand, except as a tiring piece of TV melodrama.
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Yes, but he was trying to contact Quentin's ghost in an attempt to save David, which lead to his being transported to 1897 and what better reason to discover the motives of the ghost than to discover the motives of the man?