DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
Members' Mausoleum => Calendar Events / Announcements Archive => Calendar Events / Announcements '25 I => Calendar Events / Announcements '07 I => Topic started by: Midnite on May 22, 2007, 05:25:34 PM
-
ShadowGram Online Dark Shadows News Updates List
Marcy Robin's Cyberspace "Dark Shadows" News Update List
An Internet Publication of SHADOWGRAM
ShadowGram@aol.com
Number 170. May 21, 2007.
*********************************************
Hello, Dark Shadows Fan,
ShadowGram (SG), The Official Newsletter & News Source for Dark Shadows (DS), announces the following breaking news.
***** NEW SG #110 SHADOWGRAM NEWSLETTER ISSUE NOW AVAILABLE!
The latest published issue, SG #110, is being mailed now to all current postal-mail ubscribers. It also will be mailed to new and renewing subscribers.
This SG newsletter spotlights and announces planned programming and details for the 2007 DS Festival convention on Friday, August 17 to Saturday, August 18, at the Westchester Marriott Hotel in Tarrytown, NY.
The hotel is located at 670 White Plains Rd., Tarrytown, NY 10591. 914-631-2200.
Special Guests: JONATHAN FRID, LARA PARKER, KATHRYN LEIGH SCOTT, and MARIE WALLACE. More guests may be announced.
We celebrate Jonathan's 40th Anniversary as "Barnabas Collins" – His first on-camera appearance was April 18, 1967. Previous Updates to this List premiere-announced Jonathan will join us at the Fest on Saturday only.
SG #110 premiere-announces more Fest plans, including:
Fri., 8-17: During the late morning and early afternoon, fans can visit nearby Lyndhurst Estate, filming location for both DS movies. Fest programming opens that evening.
Fri. evening -Sat. daytime: "Ladies of DS" panel; rare video screenings; DS memorabilia auction; and more.
Sat. 8-18: Jonathan joins us this day only. He presents a selection of dramatic readings, comments on "Best of Barnabas" clips; and holds a Q&A session with the audience. That night, he and the lady guests attend the Banquet dinner. Each Banquet attendee will receive one collectible autographed photo of Jonathan as Barnabas. During the Banquet, he will personalize these photographs and pose for pictures with the attendees at each table. His autograph will only be available for those who attend the Banquet.
* Please Note the following:
Personal videotaping/digital recording of all Fest actitivies is not allowed. Still photography may not be taken of dramatic performances.
The Costume Party/Gala noted on the printed Fest flyer will not be held in order to allow as much time as possible for our guests and special programming.
There are no formal Fest activities on Sun., 8-19.
The hotel is sold out of its reduced-rate sleeping rooms, though rooms at its regular, higher-priced rate may be available. Fans can book rooms at the following hotels; please contact them directly to make reservations.
Nearby hotels: Courtyard Marriott Greenburgh-Tarrytown, 475 White Plains Rd. 914-631-1122. Marriott Springhill Suites-Tarrytown, 480 White Plains Rd. 914-366-4600. Sheraton-Tarrytown, 600 White Plains Rd. 914-332-7900. A mile from the Westchester Marriott is the Extended Stay America Hotel at 118 Tarrytown Rd. in Elmsford. 914-347-8073. In the town of Hawthorn 4 miles away is a Comfort Inn. 914-592-8600.
Fest Memberships / Special Event Rates:
Fri. night (Approx. 6pm-2am) - $15.
Sat. all day (Approx. 11am-7pm) - $20.
Fri. evening (not Lyndhurst trip) and all day Sat. - $30.
Children (6-12) – Half-price.
Fri. trip (Approx. 10am-4pm) - $20. Includes Lyndhurst admission and free round-trip shuttle from hotel. (Non-refundable reservation)
Sat. Banquet (Approx. 7-11pm) - $60. Includes 3-course meal plus door prize and one personalized autographed photo of Jonathan as Barnabas, per attendee. (Non-refundable reservation)
Make check/money order payable to Dark Shadows Festival. Credit cards and Paypal are not accepted. Send to:
Dark Shadows Festival
P.O. Box 92
Maplewood, NJ 07040
www.darkshadowsfestival.com
All payments must be accompanied by the Fest registration form. To receive the form, you now can send a SASE (Self-Addressed Stamped Envelope) to the Fest address above. The form soon should be available on the Fest website and the Fest's general mass postal-mailing should be sent soon. Any payments without the form will be returned and not processed until the completed form is provided. Please also include a SASE with your payments.
Payments and forms must be received by Aug. 10. Thereafter, memberships will be available at the door at the same rates. Pre-registered members will receive a tentative schedule shortly before the Fest.
--- All fans attending the Fest are invited to share their photos and reports with SG for upcoming SG print issues. In this way, fans who are unable to be there with us can be a part of it all through you. Send all materials to SG's postal- or e- mail addresses below. Complimentary Contributor's Copies are given in thanks for major contributions.
*** SG #110 OFFICIAL DARK SHADOWS PUBLISHED NEWSLETTER – PREMIERE ANNOUNCEMENTS AND EXCLUSIVE FEATURES IN THIS NEW ISSUE:
----- A SPECIAL NOTE ABOUT THIS SG #110:
To accomodate all the in-person pictures, media coverage, news and other information, this issue is a companion to the recent SG #109.
As noted above, this issue spotlights and premiere-announces plans for the 2007 DS Festival convention in Tarrytown, NY, in August.
Both SGs feature pictures and details from the 2006 DS 40th Anniversary Celebration and Halloween Party, plus extensive coverage of Lara Parker's recent book-signings, new and planned DS merchandise, DS in the Media, DS filming locations, and much more.
Subscriptions and renewals are available via postal-mail (check/money order) or via PayPal. Your subscription will start immediately with the new SG #110 plus its companion SG #109 issues. More information follows later in this Update.
****** SG #110 PRINT ISSUE HIGHLIGHTS:
--- Rare photos of Jonathan Frid during the DS era, including a moody pose as "Barnabas" and a casual view during an interview.
--- Rare picture of Sam and Grayson Hall, laughing and relaxing
--- More photos of the DS cast/production personnel from the 2006 DS Festival convention and Halloween Party (October).
--- Exclusive, rare, and behind-the-scenes pictures include:
+ Capturing-the-moment photos as Barbara Steele (1991 DS Julia, Natalie) places her handprints in cement at LA's Vista Theater at the
Halloween Party.
+ A delightful candid shot of Kathryn Leigh Scott, Lara Parker, and Betsy Durkin Matthes at the Halloween Party.
+ Individual close-ups of Kathryn, Robert Rodan, Jerry Lacy, Marie Wallace, David Selby as Quentin, and other guests from the 2006 Festival and Halloween Party events.
+ Pictures of those we've recently lost: Dan Curtis (DS Creator/Director/Producer) and Henry Kaplan (Director)
--- News about projects and events for the DS personnel, including photos, publicity, media articles, reviews, details, etc.:
+ Continuing SG's coverage of appearances by Lara Parker (Angelique) as she held readings and signings for her novel, "DS: The Salem Branch," at bookstores across the country.
+ Upcoming for David Selby (Quentin): Publication of his new book, "Fallen Angels: Lincoln and Charles"; staging of his intense dramatic play "Final Assault"; expected Sept. debut of his new HBO series "Tell Me You Love Me".
+ The new documentary, "The Healing Gardens of New York," by Alexandra Moltke Isles (Victoria Winters).
+ TV and direct-to-dvd roles for Ben Cross (1991 - Barnabas)
+ New movie, "The Lookout," starring Joseph Gordon-Levitt (1991 DS – David, Daniel).
+ New movie, "Grindhouse – Planet Terror," starring Marley Shelton (2004 WB Pilot - Victoria).
+ Recent movies with Jenna Dewan (2004 WB Pilot - Sophia Loomis).
+ Recent movie and TV roles for Martin Donovan (2004 WB Pilot - Roger).
+ Stage productions for Donna Wandrey (Roxanne Drew) and Lisa Richards (Sabrina Stuart).
+ New autobiography "Time Steps" from Donna McKechnie (Amanda Harris/Olivia Corey): Photos and publicity from her readings and book-signings, reviews, articles.
--- "DS: The Beginning" DVDs continue bimonthly releases, exclusively for members of the MPI DS DVDs Club. These 6 sets start with the first episode and end just as Barnabas is introduced. Episodes include the original production slates, voice-over promos and announcements over the end credits, and new bonus interviews with Kathryn and Alexandra. Club members receive these dvd sets at least 6 months prior to their retail release.
Information: 800-323-0442 or www.darkshadowsdvds.com
--- New documentary CD "Dark Shadows Reborn" is a behind-the-scenes look at the new audiodrama CDs with interviews, outtakes, and more, hosted by Kathryn. It is available via mail-order from the DS Festival (address above).
--- SG #110 also updates developments and news from SG #109 and features DS in the Media mentions, a history of DS on TV, DS Filming Locations, Fan News, and more.
*** Subscription information for the SG print issues follows. The recent companion issues, SG #107 and SG #108, pay memorial tribute to Dan Curtis with never-seen pictures, extensive biographical and media salutes, details from his funeral and memorial service, and more. These issues are available upon request and also include a free bonus Special Postcard Announcement.
Subscriptions & Renewals: US & Canada First Class Mail: $12.00 for 4 issues or $24.00 for 8 issues
Overseas Air Mail: US $ 20.00 for 4 issues or US $40.00 for 8 issues
Send check/money order to: Marcy Robin
P.O. Box 1766
Temple City, CA 91780-7766
You can pay online for your subscription/renewal using PayPal and ShadowGram@aol.com
Thank you.
Marcy Robin
ShadowGram Editor / Publisher
-
I think it's a travesty that the one event fans can actually ACTIVELY participate in has been eliminated -- the Costume Gala. Whoever made that decision needs a checkup from the neck up! For starters, although I love attending the festivals, they have never been fan-participatory enough as in other fandoms. This year, in addition to eliminating one full day, they pull this. I am livid!
-
adamsgirl, do you know if the Collinsport Players will be performing?
ShadowGram:We celebrate Jonathan's 40th Anniversary as "Barnabas Collins" – His first on-camera appearance was April 18, 1967.
We first saw "Willie Loomis" on March 30, 1967, and the first on-camera appearance of John Karlen was April 11, 1967, both of which also reached a 40-year milestone this year. Just thought I'd mention that.
movie, "Grindhouse – Planet Terror," starring Marley Shelton (2004 WB Pilot - Victoria).
With her Dakota figure now available in stores (and regularly on ebay), she became the only actress who has played Vicki to have an action figure. (Mark Rainey is, I suspect, still waiting for the Joanna Going action figure. :()
-
adamsgirl, do you know if the Collinsport Players will be performing?
I really don't know, Midnite. I tend to doubt it if they've pulled the Gala. Generally, the skit would go on right before the gala. Of course, when I know for sure, I'll let you and everyone else know.
-
Adamsgirl, unless I am forgetting an event, the day DS events haven't featured a costume contest/gala. This also isn't supposed to be nor has it been billed as a full-fledged festival but more of a convention, a day celebration that actually is a day and a half.
Nancy
I think it's a travesty that the one event fans can actually ACTIVELY participate in has been eliminated -- the Costume Gala. Whoever made that decision needs a checkup from the neck up! For starters, although I love attending the festivals, they have never been fan-participatory enough as in other fandoms. This year, in addition to eliminating one full day, they pull this. I am livid!
-
I think it's a travesty that the one event fans can actually ACTIVELY participate in has been eliminated -- the Costume Gala. Whoever made that decision needs a checkup from the neck up! For starters, although I love attending the festivals, they have never been fan-participatory enough as in other fandoms.
It is a shame, but considering how the gala has been treated in the past, even at "real" Fests, I'm not surprised. Even though the event regularly draws lots of participants and is reasonably popular, it is still the next-to-last-thing scheduled on Saturday nights and always gets pushed even farther back, usually in favor of videos that could probably be shown any other time during the weekend (these aren't exclusive films of Joan Bennett on "The Dating Game" either; I remember waiting an extra hour to go on-stage one year so that "DS Bloopers" could be screened). As you said, adamsgirl, the gala is the only truly fan-centric event and I really wish it would get more respect (e.g. schedule it earlier in the day so that more people can stick around to watch it or take part in it instead of worrying about missing the last subway home). The fan videos, skits, and gala have always been my favorite events.
I'm beginning to feel better about missing this celebration, although I will still miss seeing my friends.
ProfStokes
-
It is a shame, but considering how the gala has been treated in the past, even at "real" Fests, I'm not surprised. Even though the event regularly draws lots of participants and is reasonably popular, it is still the next-to-last-thing scheduled on Saturday nights and always gets pushed even farther back, usually in favor of videos that could probably be shown any other time during the weekend (these aren't exclusive films of Joan Bennett on "The Dating Game" either; I remember waiting an extra hour to go on-stage one year so that "DS Bloopers" could be screened). As you said, adamsgirl, the gala is the only truly fan-centric event and I really wish it would get more respect (e.g. schedule it earlier in the day so that more people can stick around to watch it or take part in it instead of worrying about missing the last subway home). The fan videos, skits, and gala have always been my favorite events.
I'm beginning to feel better about missing this celebration, although I will still miss seeing my friends.
I will miss your paradies, Stokes - Amanda - I am deeply saddened that Old Man Karlen will not be in attendence, as he was one of the main reasons for a trip back home. Ah... I'll make the old man a tray of Polish cabbage and be done with it.
HIS birthday is coming up...
-
This also isn't supposed to be nor has it been billed as a full-fledged festival but more of a convention
I'm guessing someone needs to explain to SG and Ann Wilson that they've been referring to the Fests wrongly for way too many years. [wink2] Here are but a handful of examples that have been posted on the forum:
From this topic:
... This SG newsletter spotlights and announces planned programming and details for the 2007 DS Festival convention ...
But also from 2006's Update #162:
The upcoming SG #109 and subsequent print issues will ... showcase the recent DS Festival convention.
From 2003 - and directly from Ms. Wilson:
The Brooklyn Marriott Hotel, location of this year's 20th Annual DS Festival convention, has sold out of sleeping rooms ...
From 2002's Update #76:
* The Dark Shadows Festival asks SG to relay hotel room reservation information for the 2002 DS Festival convention at the Anaheim Marriott Hotel in Anaheim, CA ...
And from 2002's Update #77:
... The new print issue SG #95 was just mailed to current postal-mail subscribers
with the latest DS news and updates. Following are some key highlights, plus
much more:
...
--- The DS guests at the 2001 DS Festival convention in NYC. ...
;D
-
Are we sure that John Karlen is not coming it is his 40th also. We hope that Grayson will be there in spirit.
-
Maybe because that's not how the event has been presented to those participating in it and obviously there is a big difference between the planned format in August and the traditional festival. If nothing else, the obviousness of the format difference is enough of a clue that it's indeed different than the three day festival.
Nancy
-
Obvious to some that it's not a Fest. Perhaps even most. But apparently not to SG. ;) Though, be that as it may, it would also seem to be obvious that the terms "festival" and "convention" have become completely synonymous in the DS universe, if not an actual hyphenate that's simply missing the hyphen. :D
-
Are we sure that John Karlen is not coming it is his 40th also. We hope that Grayson will be there in spirit.
One can never be sure where John is concerned...
He is certainly going to be there in spirit - or so he says...
-
Grant you there are inconsistencies as to what to call the three day event and the one day event in the past. In fact, SG and Ann Wilson have had differences about what is a convention and what is a festival that I recall. Well, whatever, I suppose I am making a bigger deal out of the semantics than than what I should but that is the English major in me. That' my story and I'm sticking to it. >:D
Nancy
Obvious to some that it's not a Fest. Perhaps even most. But apparently not to SG. ;) Though, be that as it may, it would also seem to be obvious that the terms "festival" and "convention" have become completely synonymous in the DS universe, if not an actual hyphenate that's simply missing the hyphen. :D
-
Well, from where I sit, it seems very convenient to fall back on this as an "event" as opposed to a full-fledged festival so that the fans can accept getting short-shrift where other actors' attendance is concerned, as well as the few fan participation events that normally take place being eliminated. Still, I realize that there are only so many hours in a day, so shortening this "event," or whatever one wishes to call it, to a day and a half really did the trick.
-
Festival, convention, gathering whatever. It is an event because Jonathan Frid is going to be there. This is super exciting and I am so looking forward to it. I know it is disapointing if your favorite isn't there. I've had that happen myself but at least we have another year to regroup,catch up and have some fun. 8)
-
The fan events you are talking about normally do not take place at the abbreviated festival or weekend events so I do not understand the disappointment to the extent you believe something was taken from the fans. I don't understand your feelings about "convenient" when this August event was to be a one day only thing for the east coast crowd. That's where it stood last fall before Jonathan Frid indicated he would like to come to a more intimate event.
I use to side with other fans in hoping fests or fan events continued for awhile but in reading this thread I don't think I would much blame Jim for not having any more at all. It's damned if you and damned if you don't and a smack of belief that somehow there was a conspiracy to rip fans off by eliminating the presence of other actors from the west coast (who normally don't come to small east coast events anyway).
I don't blame Jim if he wanted to end it period after this one. Maybe all this negative reaction will be enough to let go altogether and not try anymore. I certainly would not encourage him. The grief isn't worth it.
Nancy
Well, from where I sit, it seems very convenient to fall back on this as an "event" as opposed to a full-fledged festival so that the fans can accept getting short-shrift where other actors' attendance is concerned, as well as the few fan participation events that normally take place being eliminated. Still, I realize that there are only so many hours in a day, so shortening this "event," or whatever one wishes to call it, to a day and a half really did the trick.
-
I think that we should be greatful that there still are events. It is great that JF is coming to this one! I regret that I can't go. But I will be there in spirit. I know that we think that DS is eternal, because many character were. To bad they can't do a simalcast on line. I know that I am dreaming. ::)
How many shows do they still have conventions or events for that are 40+ years old???
-
I don't blame Jim if he wanted to end it period after this one. Maybe all this negative reaction will be enough to let go altogether and not try anymore. I certainly would not encourage him. The grief isn't worth it.
I do blame Jim Pearson and everybody else that has not had the insight to invite John to participate. I understand, however, that this "event" belongs to Mr. Frid and I'm glad of it for his sake. I am pleased and privaledged to hob nob with the vampire star. But I want to hob nob with John and Mr. Selby and it's a danm shame that neither wil be in attendence! My rant for the day. Thank you very much!
-
While I can understand the feeling that you're "damned if you do and damned if you don't," remember that this event was long in coming and being announced. That alone got people speculating that, perhaps, all this was coming to an end. And, lest you misunderstand, Nancy, I'm happy to have the opportunity to see Jonathan Frid, whatever this is being called, and I'm happy to reconnect with friends I only see once a year for the most part. However, there is and has been disappointment that it's an abbreviated event and limited in guest stars.
If you look at it from a different perspective, that should be enough to let Jim know that the festivals are very much appreciated and highly-anticipated events. If there are so many people disappointed that it's shorter this year and just an "event," well, it's a tribute to what's gone on in the past, wouldn't you say?
-
i think i read on this board that jim pearson's personal feelings about this event are somewhat irrevelvent.
he is an employee of dan curtis productions and the event's continuation depends on it's viability more than what mr.pearson personally "wants" to do.
is that not correct?
p.s. a bit of bickering on a message board is pretty light "grief" when one considers what else is going on in the world today.
-
They are very relevant. He runs the marketing and licensing of Dan Curtis Productions and pretty much can do what he wishes regarding the festivals. If they aren't cost effective (break even or whatever) and not worth it to him or DCP he he can pull the plug, absolutely. He has nearly done so several times in the past.
Nancy
i think i read on this board that jim pearson's personal feelings about this event are somewhat irrevelvent.
he is an employee of dan curtis productions and the event's continuation depends on it's viability more than what mr.pearson personally "wants" to do.
is that not correct?
-
While I can understand the feeling that you're "damned if you do and damned if you don't," remember that this event was long in coming and being announced.
Yes, because of Jonathan's illness/injury the very long delay in the announcement occurred. There was concern he might not be able to do anything, let alone make an appearance at a DS function. If you recall, I said previously on this board that there was a reason for the delayed announcement. That was the reason.
Nancy
-
It is an event because Jonathan Frid is going to be there. This is super exciting and I am so looking forward to it. I know it is disapointing if your favorite isn't there.
As I've posted in the past, it's been my observation throughout my many years in fandom that there seems to be two major camps of DS fans: those who are attracted to DS because of Barnabas and seemingly only (or at least chiefly) because of Barnabas - and those who seem to be attracted to the whole package. When it comes to the first group, this year's gathering is nothing short of a spectacular realization of a dream come true (and the organizers should be commended for making that dream happen for them). But to the second group it may not be. Sure, most will definitely say they enjoy Barn/Frid - but a gathering organized with Barn/Frid as the primary focus is not necessarily as spectacular as it is for the diehard Barn/Frid fans. And, of course, that would probably be the case for this second group should any sort of DS gathering be centered around any one DS character/actor because they're attracted to the whole package that is DS. I can see where this second group might be upset upon learning this year has its primary focus on only one character/actor and that many of the other activities featured at most yearly DS gatherings will be missing because those other activities are what they've come to expect and are possibly what chiefly attracts them to attend each year. Would it have been better had it been made 100% clear from the outset in every announcement that this year's gathering was going to feature an abbreviated schedule of events in favor of the primary focus being on Barn/Frid instead of it being presented in many corners as a Fest which happens to feature Frid as the "special guest" but not necessarily the primary guest? Probably. After all, even though this is the 40th anniversary of Barn's/Frid's first DS appearance, such a gathering would still not be to everyone's taste. But hindsight is always 20/20 - and one assumes the organizers of this Fridcentric gathering would have handled things very differently had they possibly stepped back to think of that angle. However, one can't completely fault them for being ecstatic that Frid would be returning to the DS fold after such a long absence. Though at the same time, they probably might have also realized that not every DS fan is going to be as naturally excited as they are. ;) And most probably this year will go down as a major learning experience for any future DS gatherings that might not feature all the regular Fest activities and take as their primary focus one aspect or other of DS... (Such as possibly a 40th anniversary of Quentin/Selby in 2009. :D Though I'm still hoping for that 40th anniversary of Amanda gathering. ;D)
(And, of course, there's also that third group that I mentioned: the fans who enjoy DS in spite of Barnabas. And though they tend to be in the minority, I do indeed know of several DS fans who will be attending this year's gathering despite the fact that Barn/Frid is the main attraction. ;) But then, they're mostly going to simply get together with friends - the focus is pretty much immaterial to them. :D)
-
How many shows do they still have conventions or events for that are 40+ years old???
Oh my goodness, loads of them. Seriously.
-
However, there is and has been disappointment that it's an abbreviated event and limited in guest stars.
Actually, it was originally a one day event expanded into a day and a half with additional activities, not a three day festival cut short. That's where the different perceptions rest.
nancy
-
Thing is, MB, this whole thing has been made far more complicated ONLY BECAUSE Jonathan Frid is making an appearance after a decade hiatus from DS events of any kind. If the guest had been Terry Crawford (who has been absent from fests for awhile too) there would not have been such a big deal at all. I know I am repeating myself by saying a one day event had been the plan as far back as last fall with local DS actors and fans doing something in New York and now because Jonathan Frid is coming, many seem to think that event is really a festival and an abbreviated one at that. The reality is this has long been a one day thing in the works and expanded by half a day. Frid got involved only because he found out this one day thing was being thought of and it seemed like the perfect setting and environment for him to get his DS feet wet again, so to speak. ;D And, yes, it is the 40th year since the introduction of the character of Barnabas but that was not the reason he decided to come. Since he is coming, of course the anniversary is being highlighted more than it would have had he not attended.
Nancy
As I've posted in the past, it's been my observation throughout my many years in fandom that there seems to be two major camps of DS fans: those who are attracted to DS because of Barnabas and seemingly only (or at least chiefly) because of Barnabas - and those who seem to be attracted to the whole package. When it comes to the first group, this year's gathering is nothing short of a spectacular realization of a dream come true (and the organizers should be commended for making that dream happen for them). But to the second group it may not be. Sure, most will definitely say they enjoy Barn/Frid - but a gathering organized with Barn/Frid as the primary focus is not necessarily as spectacular as it is for the diehard Barn/Frid fans. And, of course, that would probably be the case for this second group should any sort of DS gathering be centered around any one DS character/actor because they're attracted to the whole package that is DS. I can see where this second group might be upset upon learning this year has its primary focus on only one character/actor and that many of the other activities featured at most yearly DS gatherings will be missing because those other activities are what they've come to expect and are possibly what chiefly attracts them to attend each year. Would it have been better had it been made 100% clear from the outset in every announcement that this year's gathering was going to feature an abbreviated schedule of events in favor of the primary focus being on Barn/Frid instead of it being presented in many corners as a Fest which happens to feature Frid as the "special guest" but not necessarily the primary guest? Probably. After all, even though this is the 40th anniversary of Barn's/Frid's first DS appearance, such a gathering would still not be to everyone's taste. But hindsight is always 20/20 - and one assumes the organizers of this Fridcentric gathering would have handled things very differently had they possibly stepped back to think of that angle. However, one can't completely fault them for being ecstatic that Frid would be returning to the DS fold after such a long absence. Though at the same time, they probably might have also realized that not every DS fan is going to be as naturally excited as they are. ;) And most probably this year will go down as a major learning experience for any future DS gatherings that might not feature all the regular Fest activities and take as their primary focus one aspect or other of DS... (Such as possibly a 40th anniversary of Quentin/Selby in 2009. :D Though I'm still hoping for that 40th anniversary of Amanda gathering. ;D)
(And, of course, there's also that third group that I mentioned: the fans who enjoy DS in spite of Barnabas. And though they tend to be in the minority, I do indeed know of several DS fans who will be attending this year's gathering despite the fact that Barn/Frid is the main attraction. ;) But then, they're mostly going to simply get together with friends - the focus is pretty much immaterial to them. :D)
-
Well, bottom line for me is, I'm glad there is an event at all. I was worried there wouldn't be anything at all any more since we'd discussed on another thread that last year's festival in Brooklyn was a financial disappointment. Am I disappointed it's not an all-out fest? Sure, but that doesn't mean I won't attend or not enjoy myself. When it was announced that Frid was the mystery guest, I was ecstatic, and I'm not a rabid Barnabas fan as some others are. I guess I fall into the category MB pegged as a general DS fan -- the whole magilla, so to speak. However, since he hasn't been to a festival in over a decade, this truly is a mega-event, and it's thanks to him there's a Dark Shadows to commemorate in the first place!
As for Jim Pierson's personal feelings, I don't know the man intimately and have only met him in passing at festivals. I would hope, though, that were he to make any decision regarding these festivals/events continuing, it WOULDN'T be based on personal feelings but on practical considerations.
-
I agree totally with MB that there are two camps in the DS world: Those who love the show in general, and those who love a particular character (in the instance MB was speaking of, it was Barnabas).
Fortunately for me, I belong to the former. I like the show in general. I love each character differently, because you can't measure them all by the same standards. Different people brought them to life, and each character had his or her own motivations throughout the series.
The REAL draw for me this year, was, of course Jon Frid. As I mentioned in another (or perhaps this) thread, my mind was completely made up without a doubt once Frid was announced as a guest. Like I said before, I was *thinking* about going, kind of hemming and hawing about it.
But, what made me want to go to the fest was not the allure of meeting "Barnabas". No, no. It was the allure of meeting "Frid" the actual PERSON. Because I've watched numerous fest videos on You Tube, as well as the vid that Mr. Frid sent to the last fest, not to mention numerous stories and other Frid-oriented videos on You Tube that have nothing to do with an actual fest, and this is a wonderful man, and I would be sorry to have never met him. Sure, he portrayed a great character on a amazing television show, but for me, Frid trumps Barnabas.
-
I agree with you, Brandon -- I'm looking forward to meeting the amazing man who is Jonathan Frid. Sure, I'm a Dark Shadows fan, but it's not about "Barnabas," to me, and as you point out, Frid has had an amazing career outside of DS.
-
Personally I'm hoping that the woman who claims to be Jonathan's long lost daughter shows up! :o That might make going to his Q&A worth it! >:D
-
Personally I'm hoping that the woman who claims to be Jonathan's long lost daughter shows up! :o That might make going to his Q&A worth it! >:D
Long lost daughter? More info please. I haven't heard about this.
-
LOL, actually there is no fear of that as she only uses that claim to try and get information out of people about Jonathan. When one of her letters does arrive and is opened, she makes no mention of the supposed familial relationship. Claiming to be a relative of JF's is one of the more common tricks fans use to try and get personal information about him. It's such a hoot.
Nancy
Personally I'm hoping that the woman who claims to be Jonathan's long lost daughter shows up! :o That might make going to his Q&A worth it! >:D
Long lost daughter? More info please. I haven't heard about this.
-
Well, Buzz ya better find another reason to go, lol. This lady you are talking about has been to numerous DS fests out in California that JF was at as well as to some Frid shows and has yet to mention this supposed relationship to him. No "DAAAAADDDYYYY!!"
Nancy
Personally I'm hoping that the woman who claims to be Jonathan's long lost daughter shows up! :o That might make going to his Q&A worth it! >:D
-
Well, as long as my friends from both coasts are there, I really don't mind who's not coming, and which events are missing. It's all about the friends....always. ;)
-
Well, as long as my friends from both coasts are there, I really don't mind who's not coming, and which events are missing. It's all about the friends....always. ;)
You are a good, kind soul. I don't believe what Midnight told me about you, I really don't.
nancy
-
This lady you are talking about has been to numerous DS fests out in California that JF was at as well as to some Frid shows and has yet to mention this supposed relationship to him.
Hmmmmm.....interesting.....ver....y interesting!
-
Buzz, in fact, I'm pretty sure Guy knows of her or knew her somewhat. He was at some of the cons she attended. She is one of those fans whose been around since the early early fan days.
nancy
This lady you are talking about has been to numerous DS fests out in California that JF was at as well as to some Frid shows and has yet to mention this supposed relationship to him.
Hmmmmm.....interesting.....ver....y interesting!
-
Now my funny bone is tickling with all this talk about meeting Frid in August, his long lost "daughter" maybe showing up, lol. For about eight years I went with Jonathan to do shows in different parts of the country including performances at DS events and other fan conventions (not specific to DS).
These are two of the most popular ruses fans will use to get to see JF privately somewhere.
"May I speak with Mr. Frid? I'm a distant relative and want to show him something." Top ruse. At one performance as many as six "distant relatives/lost relatives" introduced themselves to me wanting to see JF privately. However once at the autograph table, they never mentioned to him the belief they were related.
"I don't have long to live and I would appreciate being able to see Mr. Frid privately." Words to that effect. Common ruse. Some variations however at one DS Festival four dying individuals made this request. I am happy to say that years later I have seen these individuals alive and well at various DS functions. Praise the lord, it's a miracle!
I think the above annoys me the most because there are instances where people really are desperately ill and it would be a boost for them to meet someone they admire.
nancy
-
These are two of the most popular ruses fans will use to get to see JF privately somewhere.
Those seem to be popular for the other DS cast members as well. ;)
I prefer to be honest about it and simply say that I put out. ;D
-
But aren't we all distantly related, I mean if we go way, way, way, way back to the beginning. I quess it all dependss on what we believe. The real truely challanged people might go through Make a Wsih. When people take advantage it just makes it harder for people that are really challanged. I for one have very much reality of this. :-X
-
Well, I guess I am in MB's group number one, as I am hoping to get to the Fest for the programming and to see Jonathan, since I was lucky enough to see him before, I did not bother with the banquet, but did sign up for the Fest. The closer friends I have in fandom are not able, or not interested in going this year, but fortunately I am happy to go to events alone and maybe rejoin my family in the evening...I am curious, does anyone in the hotel/food industry know why banquets at events like this and professional conferences are so expensive, when it is usually a three course meal with only soft drinks--just curious, though I guess for some events they have to pay for a speaker, but not at the DS Fest, or am I wrong. Those of you who have never met Jonathan will very much enjoy chatting with him at the banquet....
Is this girl who claims to be Jonathan's daughter named Deborah something and does she live in CA?? I ask because she has posted a letter in the last several issues of Majesty magazine looking for her long lost father Jonathan Fried, can't even spell the name right---maybe some of the British DS fans can set the magazine straight??
-
Actually, it was originally a one day event expanded into a day and a half with additional activities, not a three day festival cut short. That's where the different perceptions rest.
I don't think fans here are disputing that the DS 'event' if you will is, or ever was to be, a full-fledged 3 day Fest. I think everyone 'gets it' that it's a 1 & 1/2 day 'event' much like last fall's Halloween party in LA and the Lyndhurst Day they had back in June 1992. But, whether intentional or not, Shadows did refer to the August event as a Festival, see below what I've cut and pasted from my copy of Cyber Shadowgram:
This SG newsletter spotlights and announces planned programming and details for the 2007 DS Festival Convention on Friday, August 17 to Saturday, August 18, at the Westchester Marriott Hotel in Tarrytown, NY.
She even calls it a convention!
Now, you're right when you say that the 'DS Festival' is an entity (i.e. official fan club if you will), but it is also an event (in other words it's what Jim and company call our annual convention) All we're saying, as MB pointed out, is that The Festival (fan club, not the convention), or at least Marcy Robin, is calling it a Festival, not a 1 or 1 & 1/2 day 'event'.
It seems too that ppl here, while grateful for ANYTHING this year, are disappointed, and justifyably so, that it's not a full-fledged 3 day Festival w/all the stars from both coasts attending. Some ppl plan their vacations around these Festivals, not so much to see the stars per se, but to see friends they've made through the years. I can tell you that getting to see my friends is the ONLY reason I go to the Fests anymore as I'm WAY over the stars. Not saying I don't like them anymore, but I'm done being star-struck. After 17 years you'd hope that one would be over that anyway. ;D And while the one day events ARE fun, they are not as good as the Fests themselves.
As Gothick would say, just my two drachmas!
P.S. I'm not happy either that Johnny K won't be there either. I look forward to seeing my boy every year and really, how many years does the poor man have left? :- And, as he indicated at a previous Fest, he's retired and he just waits around for the Fest's every year. He could have been joking when he said that of course, but if not, how doubly sad for him that his annual highlight won't come to pass this year. I too would have enjoyed seeing the two Johns onstage together in a Q&A.
-
Yes, that's the one. Again, when in direct contact with JF she never mentions being his daughter or him being her father, lol.
Nancy
Well, I guess I am in MB's group number one, as I am hoping to get to the Fest for the programming and to see Jonathan, since I was lucky enough to see him before, I did not bother with the banquet, but did sign up for the Fest. The closer friends I have in fandom are not able, or not interested in going this year, but fortunately I am happy to go to events alone and maybe rejoin my family in the evening...I am curious, does anyone in the hotel/food industry know why banquets at events like this and professional conferences are so expensive, when it is usually a three course meal with only soft drinks--just curious, though I guess for some events they have to pay for a speaker, but not at the DS Fest, or am I wrong. Those of you who have never met Jonathan will very much enjoy chatting with him at the banquet....
Is this girl who claims to be Jonathan's daughter named Deborah something and does she live in CA?? I ask because she has posted a letter in the last several issues of Majesty magazine looking for her long lost father Jonathan Fried, can't even spell the name right---maybe some of the British DS fans can set the magazine straight??
-
All that you say here is true. In the end, I guess what it's called doesn't really matter a lick. The Festival website calls this a celebration weekend so I just give up trying to define the damn thing, lol.
nancy
I don't think fans here are disputing that the DS 'event' if you will is, or ever was to be, a full-fledged 3 day Fest. I think everyone 'gets it' that it's a 1 & 1/2 day 'event' much like last fall's Halloween party in LA and the Lyndhurst Day they had back in June 1992. But, whether intentional or not, Shadows did refer to the August event as a Festival, see below what I've cut and pasted from my copy of Cyber Shadowgram:
-
Oh, also disappointed that Chris Pennock won't be there too, was looking forward to Bush Bashing again w/him, LOL! 8)
-
The people I feel sorry for, and this is what prompted my initial reaction, are those fans who actually spend an entire year from festival to festival planning their costume gala participation. I don't number myself among them, but they're out there. I can't imagine how disappointing it must be for someone who's spent time and money sewing some incredible costume (last year, there were some young women who had phenomenal period costumes made by their mother) and not get to wear it and show it off. There's also one lady (her name escapes me) who spends a year working on some kind of dance. Some might call these things hokey or whatever, but they mean a lot to the people who do them. Still, as I said before, I understand time constraints and the nature of this event.
Oh, and as for those people who claim to be relatives or to have some terminal illness, that's just sad! Then again, I've seen some crazed people at these festivals, and thankfully, they seem to be in the minority.
-
I prefer to be honest about it and simply say that I put out. ;D
This has to be the all time best line! ROTFLMAO!!
[thewave]
-
I'm glad to see this particular thread simmering down. I feel Nancy's frustration. Working hard on a project, anticipating the pleasure the fans will feel at having the chance to meet Mr. Frid, and then having a reaction of "But where are the REST of them??" is kind of like serving someone a homemade pie you've spent all morning making and having them ask, "What? No ice cream?" It must be infuriating. Personally, Nancy, I'd like to thank you for helping to make this event possible. I'm anticipating a wonderful time!
-
I don't think fans here are disputing that the DS 'event' if you will is, or ever was to be, a full-fledged 3 day Fest. I think everyone 'gets it' that it's a 1 & 1/2 day 'event' much like last fall's Halloween party in LA and the Lyndhurst Day they had back in June 1992. But, whether intentional or not, Shadows did refer to the August event as a Festival, see below what I've cut and pasted from my copy of Cyber Shadowgram:
That's true and yet the DS website calls the weekend a "Celebration" rather than a festival unless that has been changed since yesterday. Of course, Marcy and Ann didn't have any involvement in the initial talks concerning this one day weekend at least not with me - that was between Jim, me and Jonathan including a visit with Jim. I was told by Jim loast fall he was thinking of having a "one day event for the people in New York" and since he runs the thing, whatever it is, that's how my thoughts on this developed. It was only because this was to be a one day event Jonathan agreed to be involved. It was expanded another day as people expressed a dislike of just one single day. No one in the planning stages ever considered it to be more than that hence my surprise when people started talking about being disappointed the three day fest was scaled back so dramatically. But then again, I am more understanding of that view since historically, California should have been the site for the next festival. I hadn't thought about that. Several of the actors I spoke with didn't expect ANY festival this year and were surprised with the one day thing when it was being talked about.
It seems too that ppl here, while grateful for ANYTHING this year, are disappointed, and justifyably so, that it's not a full-fledged 3 day Festival w/all the stars from both coasts attending. Some ppl plan their vacations around these Festivals, not so much to see the stars per se, but to see friends they've made through the years.
Nothing stops people from meeting up in New York and sharing hotel rooms for a few days or a week. don't need a convention or festival for that. I keep hearing people say they go to the fests to see friends yet much of the initial complaining has been about more actors not attending. ::) I can't get my head around people planning their vacations around the convention though. That totally eludes me unless the they simply don't have friends at home or elsewhere to visit. >:D I guess let's say it's something I wouldn't do or think of doing. If a bunch of friends want to meet up in New York and spend a week exploring it that's something else altogether. And that can be done anytime and not necessarily around a festival.
P.S. I'm not happy either that Johnny K won't be there either. I look forward to seeing my boy every year and really, how many years does the poor man have left? :- And, as he indicated at a previous Fest, he's retired and he just waits around for the Fest's every year. I took that to mean he was joking and I certainly hope he was. He could have been joking when he said that of course, but if not, how doubly sad for him that his annual highlight won't come to pass this year.
Yes, it would be and I am assuming JK was joking. If a festival like this the social highlight of someone's year/life each year there are obviously deeper rooted problems than just being retired or lonely. It's too sad to think that someone - anyone - would have to fly or drive a long distance in order to be with any friends or feel good about life. There are lots of fun, interesting fans at the fests too with lots of outside interests. I think that may be what keeps those fans from being devastated or at a loss when something unexpected happens regarding the fests. They were nearly cancelled out altogether a few years ago so that's a clear message that no one should expect anything in particular from year to year.
I too would have enjoyed seeing the two Johns onstage together in a Q&A.
Me too. ;D
-
I prefer to be honest about it and simply say that I put out. ;D
You've been at that rum candy again! 8)
Nancy
-
I'm not happy either that Johnny K won't be there either. I look forward to seeing my boy every year and really, how many years does the poor man have left? :- And, as he indicated at a previous Fest, he's retired and he just waits around for the Fest's every year. I took that to mean he was joking and I certainly hope he was. He could have been joking when he said that of course, but if not, how doubly sad for him that his annual highlight won't come to pass this year.
Yes, it would be and I am assuming JK was joking. If a festival like this the social highlight of someone's year/life each year there are obviously deeper rooted problems than just being retired or lonely. It's too sad to think that someone - anyone - would have to fly or drive a long distance in order to be with any friends or feel good about life. There are lots of fun, interesting fans at the fests too with lots of outside interests. I think that may be what keeps those fans from being devastated or at a loss when something unexpected happens regarding the fests. They were nearly cancelled out altogether a few years ago so that's a clear message that no one should expect anything in particular from year to year.
I too would have enjoyed seeing the two Johns onstage together in a Q&A.
Me too. ;D
I've got news for you, girlie. Jk would like nothing more than to hob nob with Old Man Frid, but he understands that this is a small time event, an east coast event, and JK is cool with it. He said that he will be there in spirit. He was in a jovial mood the other day: scoop is he had won a major horse race. Good for John!
-
I can't get my head around people planning their vacations around the convention though. That totally eludes me unless the they simply don't have friends at home or elsewhere to visit. >:D If a festival like this the social highlight of someone's year/life each year there are obviously deeper rooted problems than just being retired or lonely. It's too sad to think that someone - anyone - would have to fly or drive a long distance in order to be with any friends or feel good about life.
As someone who has planned vacations around the Fest, I find this a bit offensive, although I get the point you're trying to make. My reasons for doing so were entirely practical: rooms at the Marriott Marquis for only $99/night. Back in those days (and those were the days), I could book myself into the hotel for 5 nights and still treat myself to museums, sightseeing, and revisiting old haunts by day, and hitting a different Broadway show each night. For me, the Fests were the ideal opportunity to indulge myself in a New York vacation that I might not be able to afford otherwise.
-
No offense meant which is why I put that little devil face there when I made the statement. Honest. When the fest was in NYC proper, I know many people who plan their vacation around that, stayed (like you) for almost a week and attended only one or two fest programs the entire week. They took advantage of the great rates at the hotel. If I hadn't lived in NYC, I would have done the same thing.
Nancy
As someone who has planned vacations around the Fest, I find this a bit offensive, although I get the point you're trying to make. My reasons for doing so were entirely practical: rooms at the Marriott Marquis for only $99/night. Back in those days (and those were the days), I could book myself into the hotel for 5 nights and still treat myself to museums, sightseeing, and revisiting old haunts by day, and hitting a different Broadway show each night. For me, the Fests were the ideal opportunity to indulge myself in a New York vacation that I might not be able to afford otherwise.
-
now i'm just waiting for that Amanda fest MB to finally attend one >:D >:D
jennifer
-
That's true and yet the DS website calls the weekend a "Celebration" rather than a festival unless that has been changed since yesterday.
Yes, but you assume that people actually look at that COBWEBB that is the DS Fest website. When was that thing REALLY overhauled anyway? :- Most people in fandom, it seems to me anyway, get their info from ShadowGram, Cyber ShadowGram, their Fest mailings and this Forum. So, to me, it doesn't matter a damn what they put on the site, I gave up on it being up-to-date years ago. ::)
Nothing stops people from meeting up in New York and sharing hotel rooms for a few days or a week. don't need a convention or festival for that.
Couldn't agree more Nancy! In fact, I tried to get my friends--my inner circle of friends that is--to forgo the Fest altogether this year in favor of a week at the beach, Fire Island or Provincetown to be exact. But since we have a lot of other friends who wouldn't be able to do that, because there's too many of us to hit the beach together instead, we decided that it was more practical to go to Tarrytown instead. Some of these ppl we only get to see once a year at the Fests. Bottam line, it just isn't practical for all my friends in fandom and I to vacation together once a year WITHOUT a Fest. I suspect, sadly, that when they do end, I won't see a lot of these ppl again. :'( And as Claude pointed out, the cheaper hotel rates are an enticement. Personally Karlenfan and I plan on spending more time in that fabulous hotel pool than in the main con room, LOL! 8)
I keep hearing people say they go to the fests to see friends yet much of the initial complaining has been about more actors not attending.
I must have missed those posts because what I'm seeing is people being upset that apparently some stars were told they weren't invited. Don't know if this is true or not, but if it is that's just rude of Jim. Yes, it's true that they can say "Screw Jim" and come anyway on their own dime, but if one doesn't feel welcome, why would they want to come? Again, I don't know if what MB said was true about them not being invited, or told 'their services weren't required', or whatever it was, I'm not 'in the loop' w/Jim and company, but most ppl would decide not to attend based on that. Me persoanally, I'd say 'screw Jim' and go anyway, but that's just the VA rebel in me I guess! >:D
They were nearly cancelled out altogether a few years ago so that's a clear message that no one should expect anything in particular from year to year.
I think most fans are very aware of this. Seems to me, if Jim had truly had his way back in 2003, these Fests would have ended w/the first Brooklyn Festival. No matter what Marcy Robin claims, it WAS billed as the final Festival, but perhaps ONLY on the aforementioned website, maybe she didn't see that posted on there. Guess she gave up on it being regularly updated too! ^-^ I think only the fact that the stars, KLS in particular (big surprise right? >:D), pulled Jim onstage during the cast reunion and called him on the carpet about it that caused him to back pedal and continue them for a few more years. But my friends and I all say, IF there's another Fest....
Again, just my two drachmaes ^-^
-
I keep hearing people say they go to the fests to see friends yet much of the initial complaining has been about more actors not attending. ::)
Many fans, including myself, go to Fests primarily to see friends. But as evidenced by how the ballroom is filled, or at least nearly filled for every Fest activity, quite obviously that is not the case with the seeming majority who attend the Fests. ;)
I can't get my head around people planning their vacations around the convention though. That totally eludes me unless the they simply don't have friends at home or elsewhere to visit. >:D I guess let's say it's something I wouldn't do or think of doing. If a bunch of friends want to meet up in New York and spend a week exploring it that's something else altogether. And that can be done anytime and not necessarily around a festival.
That explanation is quite simple - as even you have since admitted. The Fests provide many with a convenient venue at which they can gather to see friends from around the country (or even the world), all at reduced room rates which allow those who would otherwise not be able to get together with those friends the affordability to do so. And they can do so around a common interest even if they don't all necessarily attend every planned Fest activity.
And even jokingly, having or not having friends at home or elsewhere to spend time with is completely beside the point.
-
All of these observations are interesting. There are also some persons that have perhaps been make to feel rejected by people in fandom in the past who perhaps just like to go to the events they are interested in and don't mind being by themselves or with a small group.
I do hope people DON'T make going to the Fests the center of their year, and I think we have seen a variety of viewpoints here.
Janet, I am curious, do you know someone who is in contact with John Karlen?? I hope that is true he is okay with not coming this year, but as you say you know Jonathan would loved to have seen JK again. I love to see Jonathan and Lara, but I assume JF has not had much contact with her since 50 Years of Soaps they did in 1994, and I hope she does not feel the need about mentioning AGAIN JF going up on his lines, I thought that was quite out of line when Lara did that right after Jonathan's wonderful surpriise phone call at last year's Fest...I would hate for Lara's comments like that to put a damper on the wondeful chemistry Jonathan and Lara always had together both on and offscreen, but we shall see...
-
Gee, Miranda, I was there last year when Lara made that comment. I took it completely as a joke and not as a snipe. JF himself has made light of that situation, even on his website last time I checked. Truth to tell, those flubbed lines didn't detract at all from his mastery of the character and the storylines (okay, so some were out there, but what the heck?). As a kid, I didn't notice them. I was just fascinated by the show, as any kid would be in that age of less-than-spectacular special effects. As an adult, I cherish them. They drive home to me just how grueling a schedule these actors had, virtually learning a play a day and not taping the show the way they're taped now -- with do-overs. What they accomplished is amazing!
-
I do hope people DON'T make going to the Fests the center of their year
I understand the point you're making. But, while making the Fest the center of their year might be one thing, it probably should also be mentioned that it's really another for anyone who might look on attending the Fests as one of many greatly anticipated events in their year - or even only every few years that they might decide to attend. Whether the Fests be anyone's single option or merely one of many (and as this year appears to mark an end of an era), that probably still wouldn't lessen the disappointment of the Fests being discontinued - or even altered in such a way that their favorite Fest activities disappear. ;)
-
Thanks for your observations, adamsgirl. I certainly have seen some goodnatured bantering between JF and Lara on earlier Fest tapes, so I would like to think Lara was making a joke when she made that comment after Jonathan's call at last year's Fest, and since you were there you would have had a much better idea of what transpired then, so thanks.
-
Janet, I am curious, do you know someone who is in contact with John Karlen?? I hope that is true he is okay with not coming this year, but as you say you know Jonathan would loved to have seen JK again.
Yeah. I know someone who is in contact with the old man. I talked to JK on Monday. He is okay with this whole thing and one of the few people that understand the gravity of the thing. This is a small time DS celebration. He is in no way hurt or upset that the west coasters are not being flown out to NYC. He understands that Jim Pearson and the many loyal peoples that put all these celebrations together have only so much time and money. You understand. Kudos to Nancy Kersey. She's the one who made it happen.
Myself - I will certainly miss JK. But I am fortunate to meet Old Man Frid for a first time.
Dang, kids, how many of you ran home to watch the show in the sixties? If you had told me then that I would be hob-nobbing with the star - I would'nt have b'lieved you.
Oh, yeah. Jonathan Frid was the star. Not JK. I think...I must remain wicked.
-
i see that once again videotaping of the festival will be forbidden.
-
I must have missed those posts because what I'm seeing is people being upset that apparently some stars were told they weren't invited. Don't know if this is true or not, but if it is that's just rude of Jim. Yes, it's true that they can say "Screw Jim" and come anyway on their own dime, but if one doesn't feel welcome, why would they want to come? Again, I don't know if what MB said was true about them not being invited, or told 'their services weren't required', or whatever it was, I'm not 'in the loop' w/Jim and company, but most ppl would decide not to attend based on that. Me persoanally, I'd say 'screw Jim' and go anyway, but that's just the VA rebel in me I guess! >:D
I think that whole thing about some actors not being invited came out of the fact that the event was going to be kept very small and any actor who wanted to attend and be flown in for it was going to be politely told they were out of luck. The money isn't there for that for this event. Actors can certainly fly in on their own (well, yes, they need to use an airplane) and several west coast actors have been flying to the fests on their own dime for awhile. The money isn't there to fly everyone who wants to atttend a DS function, large or small.
I think most fans are very aware of this. Seems to me, if Jim had truly had his way back in 2003, these Fests would have ended w/the first Brooklyn Festival. No matter what Marcy Robin claims, it WAS billed as the final Festival, but perhaps ONLY on the aforementioned website, maybe she didn't see that posted on there. Guess she gave up on it being regularly updated too! ^-^ I think only the fact that the stars, KLS in particular (big surprise right? >:D), pulled Jim onstage during the cast reunion and called him on the carpet about it that caused him to back pedal and continue them for a few more years. But my friends and I all say, IF there's another Fest....
Exactly. Anything that is done as a DS event should be appreciated for whatever it is and supported.
Nancy
-
If the Fests are losing money, why not up the price of admission? Why not have more dealers other than MPI? Don't the dealers have to pay a fee to the Fest to have tables there? Plus, I have at least one friend who stopped attending when they got rid of most of the dealers, so I know there are people who come to cons mainly for the dealers. Did Pierson really decide to continue with the Fests after 2003 because of pressure from the stars? Or was it because that Fan Fair group wanted to start their own DS cons? If Pierson doesn't want to do them, why not let someone else do them?
Count me among the people for whom the Fests are the highlight of my year and I plan my whole vacation around them. Like others have said, how else could I afford the hotels for trips to NYC and LA? And what better way to get together with friends? So, gee, I guess this means I just don't have a life -- oh the horror! ::)
-
Actors can certainly fly in on their own (well, yes, they need to use an airplane) and several west coast actors have been flying to the fests on their own dime for awhile.
Well, for crying out loud, why don't they use the I-Ching wands? They should practice first so they don't end up in Kansas City.
Gerard
-
If the Fests are losing money, why not up the price of admission? Why not have more dealers other than MPI? Don't the dealers have to pay a fee to the Fest to have tables there? Plus, I have at least one friend who stopped attending when they got rid of most of the dealers, so I know there are people who come to cons mainly for the dealers. Did Pierson really decide to continue with the Fests after 2003 because of pressure from the stars? Or was it because that Fan Fair group wanted to start their own DS cons? If Pierson doesn't want to do them, why not let someone else do them?
Well, I'm sure they've talked about upping the admission price before, but more than likely if they did that, they'd lose a certain percentage of attendance. One of the draws, for me anyway, it how cheap the FEST costs, minus hotel fees and traveling expenses. If I had to pay, let's say $500 for traveling expenses and hotel costs, and then turn around and pay like $250 or so for a total fest admission (including all days involved, and the banquet) I'd seriously rethink me going.
As for why they don't let other people run the fest--me thinks that it's because once people saw how much work goes into it, any volunteers would surely run the other way. Not to mention that if they royally screwed it up it would be Jim's, DCP's, and the Fest's name on the line. If I were Jim, I certainly wouldn't want that type of stress--worrying about someone else doing it and me not being able to go all control-freak. I am a control-freak, mind you ;)
At the Brooklyn Fest last year, there was a....well, not a LARGE dealer room, but I was surprised at how many dealers were there. MPI, of course, and then there were a number of fan dealers that had a bunch of different fanzines for sale, and there were LOTS of table with DS pics for sale and fest vids for sale. Out in the main hall there were more DS picture tables, some DS Marilyn Ross tables with other little DS collectibles--watches, paper clipping, the like--and then a LARGE table that had tons of old TV Guides and 16, Tiger Beat, and related magazines, many with DS articles or mentions, and some that were just REALLY REALLY old and collectible to people who collect things like that.
This year, though, because of the scaled down event, I"m sure there won't be as many dealers. And if events in subsequent years are to match or mimic this year's gathering, I suspect dealers won't come in droves like they did before.
-
This year, though, because of the scaled down event, I"m sure there won't be as many dealers. And if events in subsequent years are to match or mimic this year's gathering, I suspect dealers won't come in droves like they did before.
Dealers who have inquired about tables this year, regardless of whether they are "new" to the events or have had tables for several consecutive years, are being told that there will be none, so it's not a matter of speculation to say that there won't be as many dealers or the usual dealers.
-
Thanks for your observations, adamsgirl. I certainly have seen some goodnatured bantering between JF and Lara on earlier Fest tapes, so I would like to think Lara was making a joke when she made that comment after Jonathan's call at last year's Fest, and since you were there you would have had a much better idea of what transpired then, so thanks.
My pleasure, Miranda. I will say this, though: Some people who also witnessed it took offense. As you can tell, I wasn't among them. I think, and this is just an opinion, some Frid fans are just overly sensitive -- LOL!
-
Dan Curtis Productions has made millions upon millions of dollars on the original and 1991 series including but not limited to the income from ABC and NBC, the respective vhs and dvd sales, the two DS movies, licensing revenues etc..... In addition, it makes millions more off its investments from said income. I just don't understand why DCP would not set aside some money each year to help with the annual DS Festivals.? I understand that DCP and the Festival are different entities. My point is that DCP is ABLE to and SHOULD assist in helping the fans celebrate Dark Shadows. You would think that DCP would want to help the fans celebrate its own franchise where the fans made DCP earn all that money. Perhaps its because DCP sees this idea as not a good business tactic since there is no return on an investment in assisting the Festival and that is truly sad . If DCP donated money to the Festival then the Festival would not have to severly limit its guests, dealers etc.... I just get the feeling that DCP is turning its back on the fans.
-
Well, I'm sure they've talked about upping the admission price before, but more than likely if they did that, they'd lose a certain percentage of attendance. One of the draws, for me anyway, it how cheap the FEST costs, minus hotel fees and traveling expenses. If I had to pay, let's say $500 for traveling expenses and hotel costs, and then turn around and pay like $250 or so for a total fest admission (including all days involved, and the banquet) I'd seriously rethink me going.
I agree the low admission price is a draw for me also, but I didn't mean a huge upward leap in price, I was merely thinking of instead of the $30 weekend price fee maybe charging like $45 or so.
As for why they don't let other people run the fest--me thinks that it's because once people saw how much work goes into it, any volunteers would surely run the other way. Not to mention that if they royally screwed it up it would be Jim's, DCP's, and the Fest's name on the line. If I were Jim, I certainly wouldn't want that type of stress--worrying about someone else doing it and me not being able to go all control-freak. I am a control-freak, mind you ;)
If someone else were running a DS convention on their own (which is what I thought was the Fan Fair group's intention), I don't see how it would be Jim's, DCP's, and the Fest's name on the line.
At the Brooklyn Fest last year, there was a....well, not a LARGE dealer room, but I was surprised at how many dealers were there. MPI, of course, and then there were a number of fan dealers that had a bunch of different fanzines for sale, and there were LOTS of table with DS pics for sale and fest vids for sale. Out in the main hall there were more DS picture tables, some DS Marilyn Ross tables with other little DS collectibles--watches, paper clipping, the like--and then a LARGE table that had tons of old TV Guides and 16, Tiger Beat, and related magazines, many with DS articles or mentions, and some that were just REALLY REALLY old and collectible to people who collect things like that.
This year, though, because of the scaled down event, I"m sure there won't be as many dealers. And if events in subsequent years are to match or mimic this year's gathering, I suspect dealers won't come in droves like they did before.
Yes, I too was pleasantly surprised at the number of dealers out in the hall last year. But if you compare the number of dealers the Fest has with other non-DS cons, this is nothing. This is nothing even compared to the number of dealers the Fest had in the dealers room in the '90s, which is still nothing compared to the number of dealers at other cons. There are a lot of things people are interested in coming to the Fest or any other type of con for other than DS items. For example, the friend I mentioned in my earlier post who no longer comes to the Fests -- at the first Fest that David Selby attended, when he made a surprise appearance (in '92 or '93 maybe -- not sure right now), I walked up to my friend who was in the dealers room and excitedly told her that David Selby was here and her exact response which I will never forget was "Who cares? I found Lady Death!" (LOL!) I also know there are people who come to cons looking for things like bootleg dvds of obscure Eurohorror movies. They're not going to find any of this stuff at the Fest anymore, if they ever did. Maybe some people might say that none of that is DS-related and shouldn't be sold at the Fests in the first place, but if it brings in more dealers, more people, and more money for the Fest, why not sell it there? I'm not saying the Fest should have room after room of dealers so there would be wall-to-wall people and it would be claustrophobic; there certainly should be a limit, but if money is a problem in financing the Fest, only allowing a few select dealers, selling DS merchandise only, in a small dealers room is ridiculous.
-
If the Fests are losing money, why not up the price of admission? Why not have more dealers other than MPI?
Something that was long considered but the reality is that most of the usual fest attendees have little disposable income as it is. In fact, you still have many cases where middle-aged people are still sleeping on the floor in a room with friends. Too many of the fans who do attend reguarly do not have the kind of income that allows them to just share a hotel room with just one other person. A lot of fans work in retail, non-profit and other moderate income industries so raising the admission stands to make the fest even more difficult for them to attend. They need to room with three to four other people as it is to afford to come at all. As I said, many still sleep on the floor.
The hotel rates is something Jim has kept researching and in order to get really good deals on hotels like the ones in midtown Manhattan, you have to have people who will use their services, room service, salons, restaurants and most DS fans do not do that. Helen Samaras, a travel agent who has booked fares for fans and actors for the Fest for twenty years was told this by management .
Bottom line: raising the admission would stand to hurt the fans who do already regualrly attend. If you have middle-aged people still sleeping on the floor and needing to room with three others to make ends meet on the trip, raising rates in any form isn't a positive thing.
Nancy
-
None of us really know about the business model or finances of DCP. The fact that fest attendance has dropped off (since the show left the air on SciFi) and the 40th Anniversary saw something llike only 2000 it doesn't make sense to finance something that appeals to a limited audience and stands to lose money. My hope is that the show finds another home on cable. Back when the series was on SciFi, festival attendance was as high as 4-6,000 people over the course of a weekend.
Nancy
Dan Curtis Productions has made millions upon millions of dollars on the original and 1991 series including but not limited to the income from ABC and NBC, the respective vhs and dvd sales, the two DS movies, licensing revenues etc..... In addition, it makes millions more off its investments from said income. I just don't understand why DCP would not set aside some money each year to help with the annual DS Festivals.? I understand that DCP and the Festival are different entities. My point is that DCP is ABLE to and SHOULD assist in helping the fans celebrate Dark Shadows. You would think that DCP would want to help the fans celebrate its own franchise where the fans made DCP earn all that money. Perhaps its because DCP sees this idea as not a good business tactic since there is no return on an investment in assisting the Festival and that is truly sad . If DCP donated money to the Festival then the Festival would not have to severly limit its guests, dealers etc.... I just get the feeling that DCP is turning its back on the fans.
-
Bottom line: raising the admission would stand to hurt the fans who do already regualrly attend. If you have middle-aged people still sleeping on the floor and needing to room with three others to make ends meet on the trip, raising rates in any form isn't a positive thing.
I'm one of those middle-aged people rooming with 3 others at the Fest to make ends meet. The Fest price has been $30/weekend for as long as I have been attending (1990) and sometimes has been a 2-for-1 deal. Raising the rate in the time since 1990 by only a few dollars even would seem reasonable. I know a lot of people don't have a very big income (and I'm one of them), but I don't think charging just a few dollars more for admission would make that big of a difference. The banquet price has gone up and people are still coming. The hotel rate has gone waaaaay up and people are still coming. Paying a little more to attend the Fest would be better than having no Fest at all, IMHO. Also, the Fest is the only con that I know of with this cheap of an admission price and I'm sure there are a lot of middle-aged people who attend other cons and cram 3-4 or more people in a hotel room there too. It's only 1 weekend a year and I thought that was part of the fun and made us feel younger. :)
-
None of us really know about the business model or finances of DCP. The fact that fest attendance has dropped off (since the show left the air on SciFi) and the 40th Anniversary saw something llike only 2000 it doesn't make sense to finance something that appeals to a limited audience and stands to lose money. My hope is that the show finds another home on cable. Back when the series was on SciFi, festival attendance was as high as 4-6,000 people over the course of a weekend.
Before the show was on Sci Fi, 2000 people attending the Fest was the norm, or more like above the norm. If that wasn't considered a poor attendance then, why is it now?
-
I think the main draw back is the cost of gas. That will be the deciding factor in my attending the Fest/Weekend thing.
-
When DS went on SciFi, it still had the then recent coming off New Jersey Network and that popularity. The fests were 1500-2000 strong attendance wise. The big celebration - 40th anniversary - was around 2,000 - that for a major anniversary and in New York. That's not much when we have had draws of over 4,000. The previous anniversary marks attendance wise had higher attendance than the 40th anniversary. DS has not been syndicated now for quite a long time. If the festivals stop it could just be for a period of time until things get rolling again. I think what Jim is trying to do is keep the gatherings going on in any way now.
Nancy
Before the show was on Sci Fi, 2000 people attending the Fest was the norm, or more like above the norm. If that wasn't considered a poor attendance then, why is it now?
-
[I'm one of those middle-aged people rooming with 3 others at the Fest to make ends meet.
But you aren't on the floor! ;D
The Fest price has been $30/weekend for as long as I have been attending (1990) and sometimes has been a 2-for-1 deal. Raising the rate in the time since 1990 by only a few dollars even would seem reasonable. I know a lot of people don't have a very big income (and I'm one of them), but I don't think charging just a few dollars more for admission would make that big of a difference. The banquet price has gone up and people are still coming. The hotel rate has gone waaaaay up and people are still coming.
I don't consider the rising cost of either to have been very much over the years.
Paying a little more to attend the Fest would be better than having no Fest at all, IMHO. Also, the Fest is the only con that I know of with this cheap of an admission price and I'm sure there are a lot of middle-aged people who attend other cons and cram 3-4 or more people in a hotel room there too. It's only 1 weekend a year and I thought that was part of the fun and made us feel younger. :)
True but I was not really talking about people sharing a room as much as those who have to sleep on the floor. I consider that rather extreme for the middle-aged back and sensibilities. :P I also have four people in my room (I won't have more than that) and primarily that is done because we know each other and it's fun to yak, like you said have fun. I could pay for my own room if I wanted and so could one or two of the other people I share my room with. I must confess though 4 women and one bathroom can get ugly at times. >:D
Nancy
-
I know whatcha mean about those gas prices, Janet! They're making me think long and hard about it too. Hopefully, though, they'll stall out and won't go up a whole bunch. As long as it's cheaper than taking the train, I don't care.
I would fly, but mum doesn't do air. lol
-
you still have many cases where middle-aged people are still sleeping on the floor in a room with friends. Too many of the fans who do attend reguarly do not have the kind of income that allows them to just share a hotel room with just one other person. A lot of fans work in retail, non-profit and other moderate income industries so raising the admission stands to make the fest even more difficult for them to attend. They need to room with three to four other people as it is to afford to come at all. As I said, many still sleep on the floor.
This is a 'blanket statement' if I ever saw one! Don't speak for me or my friends please. I'll wager that the majority of fans room w/friends because they want to be together, not because they can't afford their own room. My first Fest was 1990 NY and I went alone and roomed alone (I was new to fandom and didn't know anyone yet) and had NO problem footing the bill for the room, room service and dropping a TON of cash in the dealors room! I even did the bus trip and the banquet too, and at that time in my life I was working a mimimum wage job. It's called a savings account dear. Granted, maybe there are some fans who must room together for money's sake, but based on the fans I've seen eating in the hotel restaurants, drinking in their bars, not to mention the wads of money flying around the dealors room--and the AUCTIONS--I'd say your ascertion that ppl are too poor to room alone is a bit misinformed.
Just my two cents... ;)
-
I usually room alone or with my friend Renee if her kids aren't going. Two in a room is pretty much my limit and my back would not do well on a floor but some people feel the more the merrier and it makes a party athmosphere for them. That's fne too. I have met several people over the years who said sharing with several people was their only option for affording the fest. Some are so cautious with money they barely eat while they are there. What is all boils down to is if you come home and had fun then that's all that matters. I go to see friends and to see some of the planned events. I've never been to one where everything went as planned and I've had disappointments but by the time I got home I was happy I went. At this point in my life a New York event is my only option. LA for me would require more than 3-4 days and with most of my money going into home repairs, trips are few and far between. Many of us have financial issues I'm sure but if someone wants to spend tjheir only vacation going to the fest because that's what they love then more power to them. My only concern would be the let down once they come to an end. That's where the friendships come into play. Dark Shadows in it's festival,event/weekend form may come to an end but with phone calls, emails and visit the friendships can always remain strong.
It looks to be an awesome weekend. Sometimes we can't have our cake and eat it too (although what good is cake if you cannot eat it right?) so I just say let's enjoy this special weekend and it's guest and each others company for a short but fun filled time. It's a good thing! :)
-
This is a 'blanket statement' if I ever saw one! Don't speak for me or my friends please. I'll wager that the majority of fans room w/friends because they want to be together, not because they can't afford their own room. My first Fest was 1990 NY and I went alone and roomed alone (I was new to fandom and didn't know anyone yet) and had NO problem footing the bill for the room, room service and dropping a TON of cash in the dealors room! I even did the bus trip and the banquet too, and at that time in my life I was working a mimimum wage job. It's called a savings account dear. Granted, maybe there are some fans who must room together for money's sake, but based on the fans I've seen eating in the hotel restaurants, drinking in their bars, not to mention the wads of money flying around the dealors room--and the AUCTIONS--I'd say your ascertion that ppl are too poor to room alone is a bit misinformed.
Just my two cents... ;)
I am glad you spoke up Buzz. I haven't been to a fest, but I have friends who
do go every year and do room together. Not because they can't afford to take
a room alone either. But because they enjoy being together. It's like a party
all weekend. And they spend a pile in the dealer's room, go to the banquet,
eat, drink and etc. They also do my shopping while there. And I spent over
$140 on goodies from the dealers room just last year. So while I agree that
most Dark Shadows fans are in their mid 40's to early 60's we are not all
on fixed incomes or retired yet.
-
I will be holding a meeting of Folks Under 40 with Adorable Wives and Wads of Disposable Cash in the hotel bar. Despite our long formal title, everyone is welcome... ;)
-
you still have many cases where middle-aged people are still sleeping on the floor in a room with friends. Too many of the fans who do attend reguarly do not have the kind of income that allows them to just share a hotel room with just one other person. A lot of fans work in retail, non-profit and other moderate income industries so raising the admission stands to make the fest even more difficult for them to attend. They need to room with three to four other people as it is to afford to come at all. As I said, many still sleep on the floor.
This is a 'blanket statement' if I ever saw one! Don't speak for me or my friends please. I'll wager that the majority of fans room w/friends because they want to be together, not because they can't afford their own room. My first Fest was 1990 NY and I went alone and roomed alone (I was new to fandom and didn't know anyone yet) and had NO problem footing the bill for the room, room service and dropping a TON of cash in the dealors room! I even did the bus trip and the banquet too, and at that time in my life I was working a mimimum wage job. It's called a savings account dear. Granted, maybe there are some fans who must room together for money's sake, but based on the fans I've seen eating in the hotel restaurants, drinking in their bars, not to mention the wads of money flying around the dealors room--and the AUCTIONS--I'd say your ascertion that ppl are too poor to room alone is a bit misinformed.
Just my two cents... ;)
It would have been a blanket statement if I had said ALL but I didn't. I said "many" and yes that is a reality many can't afford to fly across the country. It's a reality borne out in mail going to festival organizers over the past twenty years including mail JF has gotten over the past twenty years from fans who explain they are not able to afford coming to a festival so my opinion is hardly "misinformed." Also, it's not a negative thing to say some events arent' affordable for many people especially when more modern statistics indicate many Americans live from one paycheck to another. We've all been there, some longer than others.
You must have missed my post about my rooming with three others for the purpose of having fun and having fun, not necessity. It's called a savings account, dear. :D
-
Which is exactly what I said in my post above about sharing a room with others for fun, not necessity.
Nancy
I am glad you spoke up Buzz. I haven't been to a fest, but I have friends who
do go every year and do room together. Not because they can't afford to take
a room alone either. But because they enjoy being together. It's like a party
all weekend. And they spend a pile in the dealer's room, go to the banquet,
eat, drink and etc. They also do my shopping while there. And I spent over
$140 on goodies from the dealers room just last year. So while I agree that
most Dark Shadows fans are in their mid 40's to early 60's we are not all
on fixed incomes or retired yet.
-
Well, for crying out loud, why don't they use the I-Ching wands? They should practice first so they don't end up in Kansas City.
[lghy] [lghy] [lghy]
-
I wanted to make sure my point was understand as already I see some misunderstanding of what I said regarding festival funds. I know Jim Pierson has operated for over a decade with the understanding that most of those fans who would like to attend a convention do not have a lot of extra cash. He has told me for this reason he finds hotel rates that are as reasonable as possible and the admission price rarely ever goes up. It would be a misrepresentation of what I was saying for anyone to take offense that I opined that for many of us with kids, mortgages and now college tuitition, there isn't a lot of disposable income. It's normal for these things to be issues for middle-aged adults. Those of us who are single will likely be able to do more wild and crazy things. ;D The festival pricing and hotel rates have operated on the premise those coming do not have much extra for as long as I can remember. I wanted to know why the fest could not continue to be held at the marriott Marquis in midtown and Jim (and Helen) told me it was because fest people tend not to use those salon services and other premium services hotels thrive on and the reason they can give big discounts to blocks of rooms. The hotel would not give as good a discount in the future for these reasons and Jim had to look elsewhere. Believe me, everyone was disappointed with that!
I have to plan my vacation around the fest when it is on the east coast as I like to meet up with friends before and after the event and do stuff in the city. It's still fun to have a bit of a slumber party in my room with three other people. I would not have it any other way. That's part of the fun.
Sometimes when I write (and write in a hurry) what comes across can sound condescending and snotty when that's not my intention. My overall concern is that people view the fests in a more realistic way and the fact there isn't the money there used to be with DS off the air for so many years and new fans not coming in as much. That doesn't mean that all can't change.
-
I wanted to make sure my point was understand as already I see some misunderstanding of what I said regarding festival funds. I know Jim Pierson has operated for over a decade with the understanding that most of those fans who would like to attend a convention do not have a lot of extra cash. He has told me for this reason he finds hotel rates that are as reasonable as possible and the admission price rarely ever goes up. It would be a misrepresentation of what I was saying for anyone to take offense that I opined that for many of us with kids, mortgages and now college tuitition, there isn't a lot of disposable income. It's normal for these things to be issues for middle-aged adults. Those of us who are single will likely be able to do more wild and crazy things. ;D The festival pricing and hotel rates have operated on the premise those coming do not have much extra for as long as I can remember. I wanted to know why the fest could not continue to be held at the marriott Marquis in midtown and Jim (and Helen) told me it was because fest people tend not to use those salon services and other premium services hotels thrive on and the reason they can give big discounts to blocks of rooms. The hotel would not give as good a discount in the future for these reasons and Jim had to look elsewhere. Believe me, everyone was disappointed with that!
Thank you for clarifying that, Nancy. I understand that Jim is doing the best he can to find good hotel rates, and he can only get the hotels go so low on their price. However, for example, last year the rate was $159/night -- yikes! I'm sure that was the best rate available, but I don't think increasing the price of Fest admisson by a few dollars or so would even be an issue compared to how much the hotel costs, even when split 4 ways! Maybe I'm wrong, but if people can afford the hotel price in the first place, I don't see how increasing the Fest admission a little bit, in order to pay for and enable the Fests to continue, could prevent them from coming.
Sometimes when I write (and write in a hurry) what comes across can sound condescending and snotty when that's not my intention. My overall concern is that people view the fests in a more realistic way and the fact there isn't the money there used to be with DS off the air for so many years and new fans not coming in as much. That doesn't mean that all can't change.
Are you saying that Pierson/DCP used to have more money to put on a Fest back in the '90s than they do now? If that is the case, then instead of just not having a Fest, could they do something like have a special fundraiser or take up a collection at this year's event, or have a special auction or a 50/50 drawing or some other idea -- I'm sure most other people are more creative than I am -- to make up the difference or raise money for the next Fest?
-
One supposes that financial reasoning could be why the Fest might say it's unable to pay West Coast actors' transportation. But one has a much harder time believing it was why, as I'd originally said, according to multiple and very reputable sources, some stars who inquired as to whether there was going to be an event this year were told that there wasn't - and this was despite the fact that, at the time of the stars' inquiries, negotiations for the Frid event had been in progress for months and were nearing completion, AND if the Frid event fell through, there was a backup plan to have an event in Brooklyn again. It wasn't until those same stars got wind that something was actually in the works (and after it was looking pretty good that this year was going to be the Frid event because it was gelling) that it was finally admitted that an event was indeed taking place - though they were then told that this year is simply a "fan event," not a Fest, and then politely told their services would not be needed. Regardless of whether or not an event was going to be Fridcentric or not, some sort of event was being planned, and the inquiring actors should have been told that from the outset - and if it was financial constraints that were going to prevent their participation, the inquiring West Coast actors should have been told that from the outset and that their services weren't going to be required no matter what shape the East Coast event took.
Though, as I also said, certain people may choose to deny all this - but one seriously doubts they would ever attempt to deny it in the presence of the actors who were given that story...
The idea that the Fests are losing money is an intriguing one. One thing that comes to mind, though, is that it's not at all like they were conceived as a moneymaking enterprise. The Festival entity is a not for profit organization that has donated its proceeds to charity throughout the years. Is it the case they are no longer able to continue making charitable donations?
Also, the New Jersey Network years took place in the mid-'80s, and even when the original DS was getting exposure on that channel, it wasn't like it was reaching a huge part of the country. It wasn't even cleared on a fraction of the cable systems that, say, a station like TBS was. Whether the original DS was on NJN or simply on a local station, its availablity for fans to watch it on TV was always very spotty at best until the Sci-Fi Channel gained fairly decent clearance. And that didn't happen for quite some time until after its debut in September '92. During Sci-Fi's entire first DS run (September '92 - March '95) the channel had extremely low clearance - and even for a bit of time beyond that first run. The fact is there have been huge stretches of time when the original DS was not available on TV (or even VHS) to most of its fans, yet the Fest presented large yearly events during that time - even going so far as to present large dual-coast events in the same year. Attendance was generally well under 2000- sometimes even only in the hundreds. So, it would seem that the unavailability of DS on TV and lower turnouts haven't generally been issues in the past...
-
None of us really know about the business model or finances of DCP. The fact that fest attendance has dropped off (since the show left the air on SciFi) and the 40th Anniversary saw something llike only 2000 it doesn't make sense to finance something that appeals to a limited audience and stands to lose money. My hope is that the show finds another home on cable. Back when the series was on SciFi, festival attendance was as high as 4-6,000 people over the course of a weekend.
Nancy I have to disagree with your position defending DCP in that " it does not make sense to finance something that appeals to a limited audience and stands to lose money". I just think that is very unfortunate that you support DCP's turning its back on the Festival and its fans. (I did not even include the income earned from DCP's entire cataloge of movies). I just wish that DCP took some initiative in financially supporting the Fest. It certainly has the means to do so and it should want to support the continuation of the Fests. DCP can donate money to the Festival if it wanted to do as the Festival is allegedly a not for profit entity-as MB recently pointed out and DCP could use its donation as a tax write- off. Does DCP have any interest in watching the Festival come to an end? I feel that DCP should be morally obligated to see the Fest thrive as an reward to us fans supporting the franchise throught the years. DCP should not just settle for getting DS back on cable. MGM is releasing straight to DVD new remakes of movies like Stigmata announced today and Audrey Rose. Is a straight to DVD new Dark Shadows movie a possibility that DCP is exploring? I had believed that the new leadership at DCP stood a better chance of getting a new DS project off the ground in any format. The 2004 WB's pilot was a fluke and not based on any DCP creative initiative.
-
The Fest price has been $30/weekend for as long as I have been attending (1990) and sometimes has been a 2-for-1 deal. Raising the rate in the time since 1990 by only a few dollars even would seem reasonable. I know a lot of people don't have a very big income (and I'm one of them), but I don't think charging just a few dollars more for admission would make that big of a difference.
But isn't raising the full admission charge by a few dollars exactly what has happened? But with a twist...
According to ShadowGram Update #153 (here's a link)----last year's Fri-Sat-Sun rate was $25 ($15 for Friday, Saturday or Sunday only). This year's 2-day rate is $30 ($15 for Friday only; $20 for Saturday only). That's a $5 increase in the "weekend rate" since last year, but if you break it down in terms of what you're actually getting for your money, fans who paid for 3 days in 2006 and plan to fork out $30 for this summer's 2-day event ($8.33 per day vs. $15 per day) are being charged 45% more, though if you count Friday as a half day, $25 for 2.5 days vs. $30 for 1.5 days (which breaks down to $10/day vs. $20/day) is a 50% increase.
Switching reels, and speaking for the moment as a fan and not a moderator, the discussion of how middle-aged fans (we won't even get into my sudden realization that the term refers to my own age group [eek]) may or may not make ends meet in order to attend reminds me of a discussion elsewhere from years ago that poked fun at how some DS fans dress (and beyond that) for these events-- it smacks of judgment and, in other words, makes me very uncomfortable. I've said my share of negative things about the Fest organizer, and I can't know what's in his heart, but that he embraces the economic and social diversity of DS fans when making Festival plans, I think, speaks well for him.
-
I had mentioned this on another thread, but Chiller Network is actively seeking input from its viewers on what they'd like to see aired. By far, Dark Shadows has received the most votes and posts on that board. If Chiller is really serious about giving viewers what they want, Dark Shadows will be back on the air soon, thus affecting (one hopes!) the festival attendance. Now, I realize this will involve negotiations, etc., but it's a strong possibility from what I've seen.
The second thing is, in answer to Midnite's previous question about The Collinsport Players, I found out today that we will, indeed, be putting on a skit on Friday night. Woo-hoo! I was really shocked since I figured if there was no Costume Gala, there would be no skit for us because we usually go on (I say, usually, but it's not set in stone) before the gala.
-
it's nice that they want to keep the costs down
for me it is the timing of the fests the summer
doesn't work for me most times because i've planned a summer vacation
and it has fallen most times when the event is
i would love to go this year because i fear JF won't do another one
but i will visit his web site and wish everyone going a great time
jennifer
-
Nancy's comment about fest attendees not spending money in hotels is in general quite true, and not confined to DS fandom. There's a large horror con near my house, and I know many many folks (including vendors!) who balance the cost of just GETTING to the fest by being frugal in other areas. In my experience at other gatherings, it's often been difficult to get fellow fans to hit a restaurant that doesn't have a dollar menu, or to patronize the hotel bar any other time than happy hour. I kind of take for granted that I can drive to these places and am not incurring the expenses that other fans are. If I had to buy a plane ticket, it'd be another story.
I attended my first DS fest last year, and was frankly ASTONISHED at how many cast members were there. I guess it's expected by some of the veteran fans, but coming from other areas of fandom and being new to DS fests, it really was kind of amazing to me that you guys get to see practically the ENTIRE surviving cast every year. The phone call from Frid last year was really something to me, and at the time I assumed it was the closest I'd get to seeing him at one of these shows. I feel very fortunate that Frid is appearing at an event at all, let alone after 14 years of declining.
So whether I'm less jaded, more easily impressed, or in general just not that bitter at any of the entities involved, I think it's close to a damn miracle that I'll get to see the "core" love triangle of the show appearing together in person, and I think it's important to keep the rarity of such an occasion in mind. I'm grateful to be attending, thankful to those who orchestrated it, and really excited for a fun weekend. My only disappointment is the absence of dealers' tables, but if I'm itching to buy stuff, there's always the internet... :)
-
I don't know specifics outside of what I have been told by the people directly involved with the fests who deal with fan correspondence all year long. If there isn't any show on the air, I don't see where there would be flexible income to market the show via festival. At any rate, there is always the hope DS will be picked up elsewhere and that type of gatherings will be planned at least once a year - small or large. Let's just hope the show gets picked up on the airwaves again.
Nancy
Are you saying that Pierson/DCP used to have more money to put on a Fest back in the '90s than they do now? If that is the case, then instead of just not having a Fest, could they do something like have a special fundraiser or take up a collection at this year's event, or have a special auction or a 50/50 drawing or some other idea -- I'm sure most other people are more creative than I am -- to make up the difference or raise money for the next Fest?
-
The second thing is, in answer to Midnite's previous question about The Collinsport Players, I found out today that we will, indeed, be putting on a skit on Friday night. Woo-hoo! I was really shocked since I figured if there was no Costume Gala, there would be no skit for us because we usually go on (I say, usually, but it's not set in stone) before the gala.
I am SOOO very happy to hear that, Adamsgirl! I will miss the big dealer's room as I just love poking and prodding about there.
Nancy
-
MB, this scenario you offer is totally news to me but I don't doubt you or your sources. I was told long before Frid got involved that a day event was being planned in New York, that's it. I'm glad you posted this in detail as I am beginning to understand other expressed views better. Thanks.
Nancy
One supposes that financial reasoning could be why the Fest might say it's unable to pay West Coast actors' transportation. But one has a much harder time believing it was why, as I'd originally said, according to multiple and very reputable sources, some stars who inquired as to whether there was going to be an event this year were told that there wasn't - and this was despite the fact that, at the time of the stars' inquiries, negotiations for the Frid event had been in progress for months and were nearing completion, AND if the Frid event fell through, there was a backup plan to have an event in Brooklyn again. It wasn't until those same stars got wind that something was actually in the works (and after it was looking pretty good that this year was going to be the Frid event because it was gelling) that it was finally admitted that an event was indeed taking place - though they were then told that this year is simply a "fan event," not a Fest, and then politely told their services would not be needed. Regardless of whether or not an event was going to be Fridcentric or not, some sort of event was being planned, and the inquiring actors should have been told that from the outset - and if it was financial constraints that were going to prevent their participation, the inquiring West Coast actors should have been told that from the outset and that their services weren't going to be required no matter what shape the East Coast event took.
Though, as I also said, certain people may choose to deny all this - but one seriously doubts they would ever attempt to deny it in the presence of the actors who were given that story...
-
Nancy I have to disagree with your position defending DCP in that " it does not make sense to finance something that appeals to a limited audience and stands to lose money". I just think that is very unfortunate that you support DCP's turning its back on the Festival and its fans.
Is that what has happened? Or are "they" trying to make a go with what they have? I speak from that of someone who has financed and produced hundreds of events and I could not convert cash from an associated entity if I wanted in order to pay expenses from a production that was not doing as well as I hoped.
I'm very surprised that you have accused me of supporting DCP turning its backs on fans. I'm not happy about it but I'll deal. You have misrepresented my views in coming to this conclusion.
(I did not even include the income earned from DCP's entire cataloge of movies). I just wish that DCP took some initiative in financially supporting the Fest. It certainly has the means to do so and it should want to support the continuation of the Fests. DCP can donate money to the Festival if it wanted to do as the Festival is allegedly a not for profit entity-as MB recently pointed out and DCP could use its donation as a tax write- off. Does DCP have any interest in watching the Festival come to an end? I feel that DCP should be morally obligated to see the Fest thrive as an reward to us fans supporting the franchise throught the years. DCP should not just settle for getting DS back on cable. MGM is releasing straight to DVD new remakes of movies like Stigmata announced today and Audrey Rose. Is a straight to DVD new Dark Shadows movie a possibility that DCP is exploring? I had believed that the new leadership at DCP stood a better chance of getting a new DS project off the ground in any format. The 2004 WB's pilot was a fluke and not based on any DCP creative initiative.
Then go for it, make it happen. Or start putting together a fundraising campaign to get a new DS convention going run by those who are fed up with the up and down of the fest fortune.
I am put off with you, Jimbo, for implying that I am all for turning backs on fans. I definitely did not deserve that at all. My behind the scenes role represents anything but.
Nancy
-
I hope I am not misunderstanding your post, Midnite and thus respond in an appropriate way -
I think making fun of what fans look like and how they dress is indeed judgmental. Ignorant may be a better word.
I brought up the middle-aged, moderate income issue for two reasons: (1) it isn't as easy to bunk down on the floor or fit into a bed with four other people as it was when we were in our twenties. Middle-aged backs don't tend to like hard floors for a night's sleep. (2) Middle-aged people with moderate incomes also have children and mortgages. That means less disposable cash for Mom and Dad. I don't consider have moderate income and working as many jobs as it takes to make ends meet anything but noble and far too many people have to live that way.
Entertainment, particularly that on the fantasy side, has a great appeal for people who have their nose to the grindstone day in and day out and truly struggle to have any extra money. It's a wonderful world to escape into it this fantasy we all enjoy here and all the others out there. Sometimes that is the only thing that keeps someone in an unhappy work situation or life situation sane.
Nancy
Switching reels, and speaking for the moment as a fan and not a moderator, the discussion of how middle-aged fans (we won't even get into my sudden realization that the term refers to my own age group [eek]) may or may not make ends meet in order to attend reminds me of a discussion elsewhere from years ago that poked fun at how some DS fans dress (and beyond that) for these events-- it smacks of judgment and, in other words, makes me very uncomfortable. I've said my share of negative things about the Fest organizer, and I can't know what's in his heart, but that he embraces the economic and social diversity of DS fans when making Festival plans, I think, speaks well for him.
-
MB, this scenario you offer is totally news to me
Well, as I said in the other topic on this issue, chances were good that the organizers of the Frid event were totally unaware of it...
Changing reels entirely, back in the mid-'90s there was a well intentioned non-Fest entity that tried to do fundraising, but due to too many issues to go into here, unfortunately, it fell flat on its face. That's not to say that another attempt couldn't work. But I suspect it's a lot harder to organize and execute than it might appear to many of us. :- Perhaps if the Fest itself attempted it, it could work better. But I strongly suspect that the Fest's not for profit status would prevent it from doing any sort of fundrising that would go towards producing DS product.
-
HouseFly, this is a great post. For my part though, I do want you to enjoy the August event because after all this stuff going on here, I can honestly say "never again" on my part. This upcoming August even will end my involvement with the behind the scenes machinations in making certain things happen. No one is irreplaceable and I''m sure some equally irritating people will come along in my place. >:D
Nancy
I attended my first DS fest last year, and was frankly ASTONISHED at how many cast members were there. I guess it's expected by some of the veteran fans, but coming from other areas of fandom and being new to DS fests, it really was kind of amazing to me that you guys get to see practically the ENTIRE surviving cast every year. The phone call from Frid last year was really something to me, and at the time I assumed it was the closest I'd get to seeing him at one of these shows. I feel very fortunate that Frid is appearing at an event at all, let alone after 14 years of declining.
-
Aw, don't get dark on me, Nancy. I haven't seen a single fan-centric event that didn't lead to PAGES of internet grousing. Drama makes the day go by, I guess. Let's see how many fans show up pouting, arms folded, unhappy with the event at hand.
First drink's on me; you've earned it. :-*
-
Hey Guys, who cares. Lets just be happy that the fest is continuing.
-
Nancy I have to disagree with your position defending DCP in that " it does not make sense to finance something that appeals to a limited audience and stands to lose money". I just think that is very unfortunate that you support DCP's turning its back on the Festival and its fans.
Is that what has happened? Or are "they" trying to make a go with what they have? I speak from that of someone who has financed and produced hundreds of events and I could not convert cash from an associated entity if I wanted in order to pay expenses from a production that was not doing as well as I hoped.
I'm very surprised that you have accused me of supporting DCP turning its backs on fans. I'm not happy about it but I'll deal. You have misrepresented my views in coming to this conclusion.
(I did not even include the income earned from DCP's entire cataloge of movies). I just wish that DCP took some initiative in financially supporting the Fest. It certainly has the means to do so and it should want to support the continuation of the Fests. DCP can donate money to the Festival if it wanted to do as the Festival is allegedly a not for profit entity-as MB recently pointed out and DCP could use its donation as a tax write- off. Does DCP have any interest in watching the Festival come to an end? I feel that DCP should be morally obligated to see the Fest thrive as an reward to us fans supporting the franchise throught the years. DCP should not just settle for getting DS back on cable. MGM is releasing straight to DVD new remakes of movies like Stigmata announced today and Audrey Rose. Is a straight to DVD new Dark Shadows movie a possibility that DCP is exploring? I had believed that the new leadership at DCP stood a better chance of getting a new DS project off the ground in any format. The 2004 WB's pilot was a fluke and not based on any DCP creative initiative.
Then go for it, make it happen. Or start putting together a fundraising campaign to get a new DS convention going run by those who are fed up with the up and down of the fest fortune.
I am put off with you, Jimbo, for implying that I am all for turning backs on fans. I definitely did not deserve that at all. My behind the scenes role represents anything but.
Nancy I think you took my words out of context. My position was simply that DCP could and should financially support the Fests and it is my understanding that your position is that DCP should not financially support the Fest because it would lose money and not return a profit for DCP. It is my opinion that by not supporting the Fest that DCP is turning its back on its fans when we need its support the most. I do disagree with your position but I do not believe for a second that you personally would turn your back on the fans. I don't believe I said that. I do apologize if I did not word my last post more precisely. On the other hand I do not appreciate your response. I think we are both just showing how strong our feelings are for our beloved show.
-
Hey Guys, who cares. Lets just be happy that the fest is continuing.
Two thumbs up! Totally agree.
-
Without question, Nancy was instrumental in bringing JF to the 2007 event. She's also generously sharing her thoughts on certain on-topic issues and has chosen to respond to comments, but in doing so, her position on these issues becomes open to debate-- same as for any other poster-- and I'm sure Nancy never had the idea that her accomplishments make her opinions immune to challenge from others. The bottom line is that debate is encouraged on this discussion forum, and I seriously doubt that any of us would bother to discuss these issues at great length if we didn't care so much.
Cynicism and attempts by posters to stifle discussion, however, are NOT welcome. If the debate in this topic is too upsetting for any visitors, perhaps it's best to skip it.
-
I don't know specifics outside of what I have been told by the people directly involved with the fests who deal with fan correspondence all year long. If there isn't any show on the air, I don't see where there would be flexible income to market the show via festival. At any rate, there is always the hope DS will be picked up elsewhere and that type of gatherings will be planned at least once a year - small or large. Let's just hope the show gets picked up on the airwaves again.
Market the show via Festival -- is that all the Fest is? Just a marketing ploy for DCP? That's just wrong. (Yeah, I know I'm being naive and unrealistic, but it's still wrong.) The Fest is supposed to be about celebrating the show and getting together with friends. Back in the '80s when the Fest was first organized (and I've read this story over and over again in Shadowgram) it was organized by fans to celebrate the show, not to make money for DCP. How did the organizers finance it back then before DCP took it over? Why couldn't whatever they did to finance it then work today? Maybe there are legitimate reasons; I'm just asking. Maybe if DCP can't finance it then DCP should let Marcy and the people who originally ran it take it back over. Or am I looking at this all backwards and DCP took it over in the first place to help finance it? That hasn't been my understanding, but I want to get the facts straight. I agree it would be very cool if DS got picked up by a network like Chiller or wherever and got back on the air again to attract new fans.
-
I am sorry this topic has gotten so difficult, but I am with Housefly Cameo that it is near a miracle to see Jonathan and Lara (and yes, the third member of the core triangle, KLS) back on stage together, and if I am able to come to the Fest it will be lovely to see, and it is really that that is having me interested in coming...
Good for you Adamsgirl, that the Collinsport Players will be doing a skit, those are always fun, though I think I did mention that I did get upset at the 1993 Fest when a then unseen 1841PT episode got bumped in favor of a Players skit as things were running behind....but this many years later I am sure most fans have seen most of the episodes several times.
I do have to respond on the idea of the show being a nice escape from the everyday cares of life, that is very true, the show does provide that, and is in some ways very addicting, but one needs to be careful to keep that in balance, and I say that as someone who became VERY addicted to DS during its original run, not good..
I do have one question, Jonathan says on his website that he will be around Friday evening to greet his fellow costars who are there, does that mean he will indeed make a brief appearance on Friday night, or will he just be appearing on Saturday as SG announced?? We will probably get a more detailed schedule closer to the Fest and if I come it looks like I will be with family members who don't want to be anywhere near Fest events, so I will probably pick and choose the Friday night stuff for me, Saturday I know I will be glued to Jonathan's events Saturday afternoon!!
-
Sorry Midnight, I just felt that good people were getting a little over sensitive. I'll keep my mouth shut.
Cynicism and attempts by posters to stifle discussion, however, are NOT welcome. If the debate in this topic is too upsetting for any visitors, perhaps it's best to skip it.
-
Okay, show of hands here -- I'm all for asking Nancy to please reconsider her position on the fandom. After all, if it weren't for her tireless work behind the scenes, we wouldn't be treated to seeing Jonathan Frid at all this year, fest or otherwise.
Nancy, we are a cantankerous bunch, myself among those who groused about this not being an actual "festival." That doesn't mean, though, that we're unappreciative. When I first heard Frid was going to be the "mystery" guest, I was ecstatic. I'd long ago given up hope that he'd ever attend anything DS-related and that I'd ever get to see him. Thanks to you, that is exactly what's going to happen! My sincere gratitude!
Believe me, when Jonathan stands on that stage, and you see the fans cheering and doing a standing ovation, I think you'll be more than pleased with what your efforts brought and how much delight and joy you've given us fans. I do hope so!
-
Adamsgirl, thank you for sharing the news about the Collinsport Players! Their skits are always a Fest highlight for me.
I hope I am not misunderstanding your post, Midnite and thus respond in an appropriate way -
I think making fun of what fans look like and how they dress is indeed judgmental. Ignorant may be a better word.
I brought up the middle-aged, moderate income issue for two reasons: (1) it isn't as easy to bunk down on the floor or fit into a bed with four other people as it was when we were in our twenties. Middle-aged backs don't tend to like hard floors for a night's sleep. (2) Middle-aged people with moderate incomes also have children and mortgages. That means less disposable cash for Mom and Dad. I don't consider have moderate income and working as many jobs as it takes to make ends meet anything but noble and far too many people have to live that way.
Entertainment, particularly that on the fantasy side, has a great appeal for people who have their nose to the grindstone day in and day out and truly struggle to have any extra money. It's a wonderful world to escape into it this fantasy we all enjoy here and all the others out there. Sometimes that is the only thing that keeps someone in an unhappy work situation or life situation sane.
I think you might have misunderstood. But first, I have to say I was joking about the middle-aged reference... well, a little. ;) Anyway, I understood the context of your original comment from a few days ago, and it seems we're in agreement that Pierson takes into consideration what fans can afford to pay. One has only to attend a Fest to notice that there are fans who are quite possibly on disability income. However, and where I suspect things went awry, is that there are also attendees that splurge during these events, and many fans also fall somewhere in the middle, yet when a focus is put on one end of the spectrum, even with the best of intentions, feelings can get ruffled. My discomfort was in seeing posters begin to defend, vehemently in at least one case, their own financial situation and that of their peers. I realize you were not asking them to when you introduced the subject of fans who cannot afford their own room-- it was their choice to respond-- but my belief is that no one has to justify their decision to share vacation expenses. Or for that matter, to explain the importance of Fests in their lives. Ever.
-
Well, after reading all of the posts, I have finally decided to reply. I'm really pissed right now, though, because I spent a lot of time writing this big, long reply - and just before I was ready to post it, Safari quit! Now I have to write it all over again! [angryf] I'm going to copy this into a document before I post it to make sure I don't lose it again. I hope I can remember all that I was going to say.
I have attended the DS Fest every year since 2003 (the one that was supposed to be the last one). I always stay in a hotel room alone, because that's how I prefer it. Don't get me wrong, I like meeting up with the fans, but it's not my major focus at the Fest. Sometimes, I spend time alone, and sometimes with fans - and that's ok. I still love to get autographs from the stars, even though I do it every year. (Too bad I have to wait in those looooooong lines, though!) [sadg] I didn't spend much time in the Dealer's Room, but I still managed to spend too much money! [winkg]
Although I was disappointed when I found out that this year's event would be shorter (by half) than the previous DS Fests, I am exstatic to be able to finally meet Jonathan Frid! I am very grateful to Nancy for her diligence in getting him to come! [bigok] This is really exciting! [cheer]
I consider myself to be a "General Dark Shadows Fan" - except for the fact that Quentin (of course) and Barnabas, respectively, are my favorite characters. [luv] I am disappointed that David Selby won't be attending, but I understand the reasoning behind it. It's a major coup to get JF to attend! If having a small affair is what will get him to come, so be it. It's not like I didn't get to meet the other DS stars before. I'm glad that Lara Parker, KLS, and Marie Wallace will be there. It's too bad John Karlen can't come, but I'm glad he's ok with that. Frankly, I don't expect any more stars to attend, but that's ok - it's a much shorter event, and there wouldn't be enough time for more. Getting to see JF is worth it! [cheesyg]
I also have attended the Las Vegas Star Trek Convention every year since 2003. I will stop going there this year, however, due to the high cost and my feeling of "Been there, done that." I still want to go to the DS Fests (or whatever they are called) as long as I can, though. I like being able to hob-nob with the stars and my DS friends. (I don't have ST friends - never got into that.) DS Fest is much cheaper than the ST Con. ST Con charges for everything! I have shelled out big bucks for some autographs of the major stars, which were exciting, but it was like an assembly line, and I couldn't converse with them. Some of the minor stars were more accessible in the Dealer's Room, but even they charged $20 per autograph. The autographs of DS stars are FREE!!! [cheerleader]
Gee, I guess I gave more than two cents worth - more like two dollars or more! [winkg] I am really excited about going to the DS Special Event this year! I look forward to meeting Jonathan Frid, seeing the other stars again, and meeting up with DS friends. I hope this post isn't too long.
----- Sally -----
[coolg]
-
A few things I forgot... I'm glad that the Collinsport Players will perform. It's unfortunate that there won't be a Costume Gala, but when would there be time? [idontknow]
The DS Fest is the highlight of my year. I don't plan a vacation around it, though, since it costs a lot for me to travel there. I just stay the minimum time - I arrive the night before, and leave the day after the Fest. This year, actually, will be good for me, because I will save money on the hotel. [winkg]
Ok, that's it. I've spent enough time with this. I need to get on with my day. [cheesyg] Peace! [hippy2]
----- Sally -----
[coolg]
-
The second thing is, in answer to Midnite's previous question about The Collinsport Players, I found out today that we will, indeed, be putting on a skit on Friday night. Woo-hoo! I was really shocked since I figured if there was no Costume Gala, there would be no skit for us because we usually go on (I say, usually, but it's not set in stone) before the gala.
Hurray! That's excellent news, adamsgirl! The Players are a staple of the Fest; I'm glad they were retained for this event. :)
ProfStokes
-
I use to side with other fans in hoping fests or fan events continued for awhile but in reading this thread I don't think I would much blame Jim for not having any more at all. It's damned if you and damned if you don't and a smack of belief that somehow there was a conspiracy to rip fans off by eliminating the presence of other actors from the west coast (who normally don't come to small east coast events anyway).
I don't blame Jim if he wanted to end it period after this one. Maybe all this negative reaction will be enough to let go altogether and not try anymore. I certainly would not encourage him. The grief isn't worth it.
For my part though, I do want you to enjoy the August event because after all this stuff going on here, I can honestly say "never again" on my part. This upcoming August even will end my involvement with the behind the scenes machinations in making certain things happen. No one is irreplaceable and I''m sure some equally irritating people will come along in my place. >:D
Much of what I've seen in this thread is not ingratitude, but rather legitimate confusion and concern regarding the format of this year's event (e.g. why is it shorter? why is fan participation being cut back? why aren't all the regular actors coming? is the Fest out of money? can't DCP help? etc.) and indignation that beloved actors may have been treated with something less than full respect. It would be nice if the DS Festival had a representative on this board, the way MPI does, to respond to questions and suggestions from concerned fans and patrons. Unfortunately they do not, and in their stead, that burden has fallen on you, Nancy. Even though you are not in charge of the event, you are the person among us who is in the best position to know what's going on behind the scenes, so most of the questions and concerns have been directed to you, however fair or unfair that may be. As adamsgirl pointed out, the fact that so many people are so vocal goes to show how much we value the continuance of the weekend Festivals. I don't think anyone meant to offend you, and I hope you will reconsider your decision to give up your involvement in Fest activities. Your efforts in getting Jonathan Frid to this event are extremely appreciated, and so is your participation as a volunteer at previous Fests. I thank you too for your willingness in addressing our queries about behind-the-scenes issues.
I'm sure everyone who is able to attend this year's event will have a lovely time.
ProfStokes
-
Thanks for that, ProfStokes. I usually de-snit (or is that un-snit). I don't pretend to represent DCP's views or interests; what I know is based on what I am told by reliable sources and my own involvement with "putting on a show" so to speak. I must admit my mood was considerably altered when I discovered something else I didn't know but I won't revisit that. No point. The August event is what it is and people can make their feelings known to the organizer(s) at said event or via mail. I'm putting my pouty face away, picking up my crayons and looking for greener pastures until more concrete things are known or announced.
Nancy
-
well put prof,
a message board is sort of the one outlet for fan's to kvetch with one another in real time.we fire off our thoughts and feelings,hit the post key,and there it is forever even as one cools off(and this board is particularly calm and well-mannered compared to what goes on elsewhere).
nancy,
there has been considerable confusion and misunderstanding about the nature of this year's event and because you have had more involvement in it's planning than the rest of us you were on the receiving end of alot of gripes.as prof said no one from d.c.p. or the fest is represented on this board so there is always alot of speculation.
if you were key in getting jonathan frid on board thanks.
-
this board is particularly calm and well-mannered compared to what goes on elsewhere
Thanks. :) Obviously there are always going to be disagreements. They're inevitable because no two people will always think exactly alike or approach situations in the same way. But we've tried our best to create and maintain a calm and safe environment for DS fans in which disagreements can be kept civil. And not to tout ourselves, but I don't even want to contemplate what levels this discussion might have sunk to in certain other corners of cyberspace. :-
-
well put prof,
a message board is sort of the one outlet for fan's to kvetch with one another in real time.we fire off our thoughts and feelings,hit the post key,and there it is forever even as one cools off(and this board is particularly calm and well-mannered compared to what goes on elsewhere).
This is a great forum, absolutely. I would not be bothered otherwise. More work goes into maintaining this site and towards making members (and guests) comfortable and feel welcome than we probably realize.
Okay, now that I did my kissing up . . . ^-^
nancy,
there has been considerable confusion and misunderstanding about the nature of this year's event and because you have had more involvement in it's planning than the rest of us you were on the receiving end of alot of gripes.as prof said no one from d.c.p. or the fest is represented on this board so there is always alot of speculation.
Seriously, let me say this about that - since the fests were nearly discontinued a few years ago, I would not expect anything to be the same each year at this point. A thought occurred to me while reading your post and Amanda's and that is much like the fanzines were encouraged before the show was ever in syndicated, small gatherings on one coast and then the other might be more the norm to keep an established fan base somewhat happy and connected until the show finds a new home on television.
There is a widespread belief that all production companies (and production staff) make lots of money especially if that company has a "name" product we recognize. That's not always the case either. I have worked for television and video production companies (some with heavy involvement in shows and "products" we recognize) and money isn't always right there and available to be used. It's not usually a matter of "won't" as much as "can't." I do not know the ins and outs of DCP's financial status but make no mistake about it - the festival is part of its marketing arm but more than anything else, the fest is a non-profit organization whose purpose is to entertain and donate proceeds to charity. There is a tendency to believe that because something is legendary there is all kinds of money surrounding that name in terms of licensing, etc. I have been as guilty as anyone as to speculating about what DCP can and can't do or will or won't do. I simply do not know for certain. i am making an educated guess, is all.
But really, after the fest was nearly cancelled altogether, it makes sense to just hope for something each year. A small event takes a lot of work once it's decided, never mind a lot of work in terms of finding the right space, getting the right price and those logistical things in place.
We are lucky to have the kind of annual or bi-annual celebrations where the show and its fans really are the stars. Try attending other TV show conventions and you will be charged for the air you breathe. The only person I would pay $75.00 to be photographed with is Jesus. We are a lucky bunch: a good forum to do what friends and acquaintances do - share thoughts, ideas and brainstorm and not be afraid to be wrong or misinformed.
It's gonna be cool to have Barnabas at a DS gathering again. >:D Please be gentle with him.
And that's my proclamation for the evening. ;D
Nancy
-
It's gonna be cool to have Barnabas at a DS gathering again. >:D Please be gentle with him.
Hmmm - of all people, would Frid be happy with you referring to him as Barnabas - even jokingly - especially when he has frequently gone out of his way in interviews and public appearances to point out in as many words to DS fans and others and make them understand that he is "not Barnabas"? :tsk:
I just hope he doesn't see that post. [sad1]
[b003] >:D [lghy]
-
MB, when I deign to telephone Mr. Frid and he answers the phone, frequently I say, "Hello, may I speak with Barnabas, please?"
It's true. I'm a menace. ;D
nancy
-
when ... he answers the phone, frequently I say, "Hello, may I speak with Barnabas, please?"
It's true. I'm a menace. ;D
It's a wonder he puts up with you! [laughing11] But perhaps you should really be more careful in public. After all, you wouldn't want impressionable people to get the wrong idea after all his hard work. [wink2]
-
Oh no, absolutely not! ;D
After all, you wouldn't want impressionable people to get the wrong idea after all his hard work. [wink2]
-
when ... he answers the phone, frequently I say, "Hello, may I speak with Barnabas, please?"
It's true. I'm a menace. ;D
It's a wonder he puts up with you! [laughing11] But perhaps you should really be more careful in public. After all, you wouldn't want impressionable people to get the wrong idea after all his hard work. [wink2]
Well, worse things could happen! Imagine somebody coming up to him and saying: "Hey, ain't you the guy didn't get to say nuthin' in that TV movie with that big broad who had to climb up that Christmas tree on the Titanic or somethin'?"
Gerard
-
The only person I would pay $75.00 to be photographed with is Jesus.
Has there been some sort of announcement?
-
Well, worse things could happen! Imagine somebody coming up to him and saying: "Hey, ain't you the guy didn't get to say nuthin' in that TV movie with that big broad who had to climb up that Christmas tree on the Titanic or somethin'?"
Actually, minus the part about "that big broad who had to climb up that Christmas tree on the Titanic or somethin'," that has happened at least once. While I was in the Fest autograph line for Frid in '89, the person in front of me remarked to him that it was a shame that after DS his career sunk to doing the TV movie where he didn't even say a word. Both Frid and I were so shocked that neither one of us said a word for several seconds - me longer than Frid, who eventually just shrugged it off. To this day I kick myself for not speaking up and pointing out how it's actually much harder to convey almost anything without dialogue than it is with it. But in the moment I was in such shock that someone in an autograph line at a DS Fest would have the audacity to say such a thing to Frid, that I was struck dumbfounded for far too long...
-
That's a weird subculture of fandom - the person who wants to belittle the one they sought out. I see that a lot. They roll up to a guy/gal's autograph table and ask a smirking "so what have you been DOING?" or "where've you BEEN?" The dime store psychologist in me figures it's a bit of a power rush - they feel empowered having belittled the "big famous" person. It's classless and gross.
-
It's classless and gross.
It's certainly that! >:( And I agree that it's definitely some sort of odd phenomenon. '89 was my first Fest, but since then I've seen all sorts of bad behavior directed towards the actors in almost every way imaginable. It's a wonder they've been willing to put up with it and still come back from year to year. But one can only hope the good experiences with fans make the bad ones seem almost nonexistent...
-
This is an interesting thread. I don't post much and I only go to festivals once in awhile. i remember the frist one and witnessing the costume gala and people doing the folk song thing...it was amazing! I had never seen anything like it. When I have attended, I have enjoyed these events...along with the skits.
People aren't always open to change but it seems like this gathering is somehow different than the others. It might just be rewarding. And if it's not...there's always next year....the costumes and dances could wait a year for their debut.
Maybe they could do a survey to see what people really want in a fest and then use the data when they plan the event. [cyclops_ani]
-
Actually, minus the part about "that big broad who had to climb up that Christmas tree on the Titanic or somethin'," that has happened at least once. While I was in the Fest autograph line for Frid in '89, the person in front of me remarked to him that it was a shame that after DS his career sunk to doing the TV movie where he didn't even say a word. Both Frid and I were so shocked that neither one of us said a word for several seconds - me longer than Frid, who eventually just shrugged it off. To this day I kick myself for not speaking up and pointing out how it's actually much harder to convey almost anything without dialogue than it is with it. But in the moment I was in such shock that someone in an autograph line at a DS Fest would have the audacity to say such a thing to Frid, that I was struck dumbfounded for far too long...
MB, we'll have to form a support group! I'm pretty sure I mentioned this incident several years back when I went to my one and only DS Fest in Brooklyn. I waited in line, trying to keep from fainting, to get TLATKLS' autograph and one quick pic. Finally, when it was my turn, I just said a few quick words about how I appreciated so much her impact on me when I originally watched the show, get my autograph and a photo, and then move on. The guy next to me suddenly started spouting off. I don't know about what anymore, and at first tried to ignore it (as did TLATKLS), but he wouldn't quit, so I gave him a very rapid and tart comment, silencing him. TLATKLS smiled ever so slightly, and asked if I'd like to have two pictures taken with her!
Gerard
-
The guy next to me suddenly started spouting off. I don't know about what anymore, and at first tried to ignore it (as did TLATKLS), but he wouldn't quit, so I gave him a very rapid and tart comment, silencing him. TLATKLS smiled ever so slightly, and asked if I'd like to have two pictures taken with her!
It amazes me what some people think they have the right to say to actors. Years ago I saw Barry Williams in The Music Man. Kathryn Grant was also in the show. She was married to Bing Crosby for 20 years. After the show I went to get autographs and a man went up to her and did his Bing Crosby impression(which sucked). My jaw hit the floor. But she just went on to the next person. She didn't even look at him.
-
I am indeed alive. This chain has actually made me dust off my DS Boards posting skills and brought me out of my Lurkdom. I have been promoted at work and am now running North America for the company...so to say I have been busy is a gross understatement. in fact peter and I have been on the road for weeks and literally are back in oru house for the first time in two months.
What is the dealio? I am disappointed that the festival has been reduced to the extent to which it has. I do offer kudos to Jim for working to get Jonathan there to celebrate his 40th. However, I would have thought that his attendance would have beget a larger festival...NOT a smaller one. Its like in my business life...if the demand is there...then add to offering to serve a mass populous and not downscale it. Here is why I am diasspointed...I look forward to seeing everyone and this is our one time a year to gather and catch-up. DS brought us together but it isn't the only thing we now have in common. Without the ability to spread the festival experience over four days this will not happen now. Further many of our friends have chosen not to come due to the prohibitive cost of traveling for only 18 hours. So this makes me sad and disappointed. Richard Halpern is brilliant at what he does so to not have him there with us is also giving me a heavy heart.
The net net is I had resigned myself to never meeting Jonathan. Though I would very much like to as he and my Uncle/Godfather (Richard Waring) worked together a few times at the Stratford Festival. So how cool that I will get to see him afterall? Very! However at what cost? Another year goes by without seeing those I care about. So would I have rather we had our old festival from the last four years that I have attended? Well yes.
Now don't faint again as a I close with the following...Marcy has done an tremendous job of keeping fans connected...though I may have "questioned" the Editing rights of that connection...it quite frankly is hers to do with as she pleases...my right to bitch about it...but thats another story and not the purpose of this post...I am more grateful that connection exists as it does connect many in fandom...I am going somewhere with this so bear with me for a second...Marcy also has looked passed peoples developmental and/or social challenges, and championed the costume contest. It is truly a melange of characters (and I mean that in every way) It is no secret that this event is very important to many of us. so to see this going away is an additional dissapointment.
So as I cry in to my beer...though I stopped drinking so my beer is of the diet root variety...I am grateful I will see some of you...I will endeavor on our travels to make sure we see people off of the festival schedule...a recent rrip to Florida provided a great time with Cyndi and Beth...so I will take this as comfort that it can happen.
Enough with my post.
Warmth and Frienship, John
-
Congratulations on your promotion, John! And how wonderful it is to see a post from you again. :D
-
My darling voice of reason Mid...to borrow from Dolly Gallagher Levi...It's so nice to be back home where I belong. You keeping the werewolves at bay?
-
Yep, still goin' strong. ;)
I haven't met JF either. Should be fun!
I also haven't heard from Phoebe. I hope life is treating her well.
-
That is a perfect summation, Housefly! Just perfect.
In the case of Frid, he is so different than many actors in that he doesn't believe he is "all that" and really could not care about celebrity. He believes the only use of celebrity is to get to do what you want more, otherwise he doesnt care about it.
The story MB relates reminds me of reading or hearing some discussion co-star Grayson Hall was having with some fans about Jonathan and even she said that his stage career involved his only carrying a spear (or something like that) when in fact he won nothing but acclaim in the New York Times and other newspapers for his stage appearances in major roles, being directed by prestigious stage directors and in famous theaters across the country. If someone is supposedly a fan of his and simply doesn't make it a point to know more about his stage career (which spans almost sixty years) then he doesn't care about the fan's opinion on his overall career. He knows what he did and he did what he wanted to for the most part. When that remark was made in 1989, he had recently come off a stage tour of Arsenic and Old Lace that shattered box office records across the U.S. and was performing his one man show all over the place and Canada too. Again, information that readily available and a serious JF fan would know which is why comments like the one MB related don't really bother him.
Housefly, another sub-culture of fandom are those fans who have some interaction with the actors during the festivals and maybe at other events during the year who then refer to themselves as being "close friends" with the actor. Frequently, that's news to the actor in question who doesn't think of the fan as being anymore than an acquaintance or maybe a friend they see at DS and fan events and nothing else.
Nancy
That's a weird subculture of fandom - the person who wants to belittle the one they sought out. I see that a lot. They roll up to a guy/gal's autograph table and ask a smirking "so what have you been DOING?" or "where've you BEEN?" The dime store psychologist in me figures it's a bit of a power rush - they feel empowered having belittled the "big famous" person. It's classless and gross.
-
Housefly, another sub-culture of fandom are those fans who have some interaction with the actors during the festivals and maybe at other events during the year who then refer to themselves as being "close friends" with the actor. Frequently, that's news to the actor in question who doesn't think of the fan as being anymore than an acquaintance or maybe a friend they see at DS and fan events and nothing else.
No, Nancy! He IS my daddy! I know it! >:(
In all seriousness, it's gonna be a while, but I'm morbidly curious to get to the ep that aired on the day I was born...
-
Housefly
I love your quote
"It's not Star Trek, there's not a convention every week. If I miss this, it's a three year dry spell." - Patton Oswalt on DS
where did you find it and what is the context of him saying it?
-
He played a supporting cast member on King of Queens, and I think it was his wife or his gf yelling at him about going to a DS fest. He was dressed as Barnabas near the end of the ep. I can't find a pic of that, but here he is dressed as Mad Max:
(http://www.usedwigs.com/graphics/PO_RoadWarrior.jpg)
-
He played a supporting cast member on King of Queens, and I think it was his wife or his gf yelling at him about going to a DS fest. He was dressed as Barnabas near the end of the ep.
Oh yeah... never watched that show but I have seen him on comedy specials
thanks