DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '07 I => Topic started by: loril54 on April 19, 2007, 09:54:28 PM
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When Barnabas came back and looked in the secret room behind the bookcase. Would Roxanne be bones and dust?? What else would have happeded??
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I believe she was destroyed in 1840.
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Yes, Magnus is right. Roxanne met her demise.
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So you are saying it just would have been a empty coffin, nothing there. I wonder is Cassandra would have been remembered or would she have been replaced by someone else that Roger marries. What I guess I thinking of is how do you think that history of Collinwood would have been changed. We know that no one at Collinwood died. What do you think happended to Maggie and so on.
It is like you change one thingin history what happens with everything else.
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[spoiler]Since the events of 1840 were changed, there were no Gerard and Daphne haunting Collinwood in 1970 so the family has no memory of them. I think the same is true of Roxanne....since she was staked in 1840, she couldn't have attacked Maggie in 1970, so there was no reason to have sent Maggie away so I reckon she's still governess to David and Hallie.[/spoiler]
That's at least my take on it.
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Roxanne never made it to 1970 at all, not even her coffin. (She didn't even make it to 1841.) The events we saw in 1970 were prevented from having happened. They never happened. You can watch them on TV, but even in DS they didn't happen.
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She got caught by "The Nose" and suffered from post-nasal drip", thus ending her acting career...? [noseinair]
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Roxanne never made it to 1970 at all, not even her coffin. (She didn't even make it to 1841.)
And yet, Barnabas thought she might be there. There's a scene just before he first uses the I-Ching:He enters the secret room and speaks to Roxanne in her coffin--you will be safe here, he assures her. I'm going away. Sebastian is gone. I'm going to try to get back to your time and change your fate. I wish I could look at you, he says, but when I come back, perhaps I can. He leaves the room, closing the shelf behind him.
I know he tends toward the melodramatic, but his desire to lay eyes on Roxanne again when he returns makes no sense. If by changing her fate he meant preventing her from becoming a vampire, she would have lived out her mortal life, but having failed that she was eventually destroyed, so either way, there wouldn't be a Roxanne in 1970. Duh, Barnabas.
[spoiler]I think the same is true of Roxanne....since she was staked in 1840,[/spoiler]
Roxanne was [spoiler]fried by sunlight,[/spoiler] but I agree with your take on the changes to the present. :)
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Dang, that's right! I forgot [spoiler]that Roxanne was exposed to light, thus causing her demise.[/spoiler]
I'm getting all these vampires confused! LOL
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This whole thread goes back to what I've said many times
before:
IT WAS WRONG TO END THIS SHOW IN 1841PT!!!
After changing history as much as they did in 1840, we should have been given a glimpse as to how those changes affected Collinwood in 1967-1971.
I hope one of the upcoming audio dramas answers these questions.
David
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IT WAS WRONG TO END THIS SHOW IN 1841PT!!!
After changing history as much as they did in 1840, we should have been given a glimpse as to how those changes affected Collinwood in 1967-1971.
There was no way to possibly continue with 1971. Everything was contradictory. When ECS recognized Barnabas, that showed everything was hopelessly screwed up.
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So are you saysing that Barnabas and Julia shouldn't have been recognized. Do you think that Barnabas would have been stranger. So you are thinking that when [spoiler]Angelique took off the curse in 1840[/spoiler] and 1897 and 1967 didn't happen.
Quentin would have still been a ghost??
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Someone here, either Gothick or Gerard, wrote a story that explains all the loose ends and shows how 1840 changed things in 1971.
After 1841PT, why couldn't we have had a week or two of such things onscreen before the show ended?
Then the story would have truly been concluded.
The writing was so sloppy at the end because Curtis & Co. no longer cared.
Sad.
David
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Someone here, either Gothick or Gerard, wrote a story that explains all the loose ends and shows how 1840 changed things in 1971.
After 1841PT, why couldn't we have had a week or two of such things onscreen before the show ended?
Then the story would have truly been concluded.
I wish I could get that fanfic on tape.
After 1841 PT they were cancelled. I have heard mixed information but I get the impression the cancellation happened with little warning beforehand. Thus you see them beginning a new storyline onscreen with the bite marks, last episode, then Thayer has to explain it away in such a contrived way that it made me groan as a twelve-year-old.
So planning for a couple final weeks to do a big finale... I don't think they could, yes, many didn't care, maybe they thought they had no viewers, but the main reason is that they went out of their way to wrap up 1971 the way they did, I think, because the plot fallout scared the hell out of them. It couldn't be done and they knew it.
They basically ran for the hills as fast as they could, after getting BC and JH and ES home. They dropped the present like a hot potato.
The biggest, most glaring problem for 1971 is something that stands out a mile to me, but not to thers, I guess. [spoiler]If Barnabas doesn't climb back into the box in 1897 AND 1840, his body doesn't pass through time in the usual way to reach 1967 and Willie. I know he'd be reluctant to do that, but now I find that he did so in 1796/1968. I don't understand that whole thing, by the way. When the chains reappeared on the coffin, I threw up my hands and gave up.
His 1970 and 1969 spirit(s) can get I Chinged back home, but the body, which is his earlier body his present self is merely inhabiting, has to stay back in the past where it was the first time around.
Ang lifting the curse... bad too, but people seem to understand that one well enough.
No vampire in 1967, or 1897. No witch. No Julia coming to Collinwood.[/spoiler]
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In the audio drama Return to Collinwood , events from 1970 are referenced , such as Maggie's breakdown , and Sebastian 's involvement with her . I realsie that a lot of people will dismiss the audios as not being canon , although some ( like me ) do accept them . But there 's one reference that the events were largely unchanged.
Trying to make sense of DS 's time travel consequences are nearly impossible . Even after 1897 was changed , everyone remembers Quentin as a ghost ! So that some events of 1970 were the same , including Roxanne , isn't surprising , although I can't really expalin how that would work ...
I too really wish that the show had had a little more time to return to the present , especially since we could've finally gotten a Barnabas/Julia romance , and seen the family 's storyline resolved .
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Life doesn't get resolved until you die. Events keep happening, things keep changing.
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I never got to hear Return to Collinwood, but what I've heard I think I'm better off.
[spoiler]I fail to see how Maggie's fate would remain unaltered since Roxanne never made it to 1970 to attack her...why should she still have a breakdown? And Carolyn wed to Ned Stuart...Ned Stuart?! That alone makes me not want to be in any rush to to go out and seek Return to Collinwood.
Explaining the time eras and how events and events did and didn't change can be frusterating. Like after the history of1897 was changed, back in 1969 the family SHOULDN'T have remembered Quentin haunting Collinwood, but they did. At least the writers didn't make the same mistake twice after 1840 was over....no one remembers the Gerard and Daphne haunting of 1970 except Barnabas, Julia and Professor Stokes.[/spoiler]
I think I'll just be one of those who goes by the TV series rather than the audio tapes.
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i'm quite surprised to read that some people are looking to the current audiodramas to "resolve" plot inconsistencies left from the original show.
for me the audiodramas,the new books,the "return to collinwood" presentation are all self-contained stories under the d.s. banner but i certainly wouldn't look to them for continuity.
the same goes for the movies,the ross novels,the '91 revival etc..
as maddeningly inconsistent as the original series was it's it's own "cannon" and anything that happens outside it doesn't factor as "real" to me.
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The Revival series , the movies and the Marilyn Ross books all made no attempt to follow the original series continuity , and were never intended to be set in the same universe . The new audio plays do follow in the original series continuity and are intended to be set in the same universe . I understand some people don't want to count them as canon , but others do . It's a matter of choice . Original series actors reprising their classic roles in DS stories intended to follow up from the classic series ...it counts in my book .
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The original series' actors reprised their original roles in the plays Return to Collinwood and Vengeance at Collinwood, which were also intended as a type of follow-up to the original series - yet very few fans would ever consider them to be canon...
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Even though there's a huge backlash against Return to Collinwood, I didn't HATE it. But what I DID HATE was the fact that after I listened to it, I couldn't get Vengeance at Collinwood to listen to. Really rubbed me wrong. I mean, I'm the type of person that even if something sucks (movie, book etc) I'll still go to the end of it.
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I am totally bitter that Vengeance never got released on audio . Maybe an adapted version of it could be released one day by Big Finish . It had a smaller cast than RtC , so it would be easier to get the cast togather.
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Another option, in 1971, Angelique could have come back to Barnabas.....
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Dying in 1840/1 being but a minor setback?
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SPOILER ALERT?
Pardon my confusion - I haven't actually got to 1971/1840 yet, but am I understanding correctly that there are some actions taken by Barnabas, Julia and/or Stokes in the 1840 story that ought to have actually negated much of what happened vis a vis Barnabas in 1967-71? I ask because a poster above commented on Liz recognizing Barnabas when he Julia and Stokes return to '71 via the stairway in time.
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Sorry I didn't warn about my spoiler.
Nelson... since the very point of their going back in time is to change the present, certain events and storylines will be cancelled out, unavoidably. Much of what happened earlier in DS never happened by the time DS ended. Yes, 1840 cancels out many things, but so did 1897. The biggest, most glaring error, something that threw a monkey wrench into things in a totally unnecessary way, was Barnabas's
SPOILER
...refusal to get back into the coffin, physically.... twice. So BC was never there for Willie to set free in 1967.
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Someone here, either Gothick or Gerard, wrote a story that explains all the loose ends and shows how 1840 changed things in 1971.
I've written one that deals with how Angelique and Barnabas met in 1972, and I tie loose ends as they come up. The first one is short (as in not novel-sized) and is the first 24 hours or so surrounding them meeting each other again. And then one that is novel-sized that deals with the next few weeks or so of their lives and how much they are changed, and how Things are also changed around them.
In the second novel-sized one which I'm still working on, due to a long illness and death in my family, I'm bringing more changes into the family due to Certain Things that happened in 1840, bringing in a few extended members of the family (they HAD to know Other People) and also dealing with several unsolved mysteries: Elizabeth's life before Paul and some info on Victoria's story.
Now that I'm not obsessing about the Fest (of course, next year is already announced, so looking forward to that...), I will be spending some time getting back into it.
Judy
[angl]
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Sorry I didn't warn about my spoiler.
Apologies Magnus, my "spoiler alert" was my own, not intended at all to complain about any story details given out. I know most of them anyway :) and was just curious about the comment that Liz should not have remembered Barnabas. I understand now.
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Magnus--
[spoiler]
If Barnabas had gotten back in the coffin in 1840, wouldn't he have died, since he was human? 130 years in a coffin should kill even the best of us. Realistically, Barnabas probably shouldn't have been able to return to 1970. Maybe if the series concluding with him deciding to stay in 1840 would have made the slightest amount more sense. In that case the family shouldn't recognize Stokes and Julia either, as they most likely would not have ever met if Barnabas had never been there.
[/spoiler]
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Re the coffin and his getting back into it (alive)---Well, of course, Garth, but the whole Barnabas situation was untenable. His being cured in 1840 is one of the problems. He has to survive to 1967 and Willie letting him out, or he won't get back to his 1840 body with his 1970 self in the first place to make those changes.
He needed to be a vampire and get back into his coffin or, as you say, stay put. What happened to Barnabas' being so much more comfortable in "the past"?