DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '07 I => Topic started by: DLA75 on February 25, 2007, 09:04:06 AM
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Re Watching my DS DVD's . My mind had an idea it had never had before In episode 549 the last time we see Carolyn and Adam. Adam will not give Carolyn the key Adam throw it on the floor when she tries to get Adam kisses Carolyn. The next time we see Carolyn she is out of the room and goes to call Professor Stolks in Episode 550. What happens after the kiss is it possible that Carolyn gave in to suppressed emotions for Adam and had sex with him. Which Carolyn regrets soon afterwards or am I reading too much into it.
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Interesting question. I personally don't think Carolyn did the deed with Adam (not willingly anyway) and I hate to think that Adam would rape her. The writers kind of left us in the dark about that....or more likely left it to the viewers themselves to decide what happened after the episode.
I think she just broke away from him eventually and got the heck out of there. Either that or maybe Harry (unintentionally) saved the day by coming in the room at the right moment.
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i remember finding that this incident had an extremely disturbing "rape" subtext to it(or at least some type of attempted sexual assault was strongly implied.)
back then a rape storyline would not have been possible but i think something like that is what the writers were trying to get across.
during this plot was the only time in the show's run that i disliked carolyn extremely.i thought she used incredibly poor judgment across the whole storyline.
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If I am remembering correctly, was this after he started being influenced by Nicholas, telling him to "take what he wanted"?
Even so, I doubt Adam would have forced Carolyn to do something she didn't want to do, and given how she feels about him (friendship and pity) and knowing he feels much more strongly for her, I doubt Carolyn would have done the deed as that would have made things infinitely more complicated.
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I agree Nelson. I got the strong impression that Carolyn called Stokes because she felt something had to be done because she feared Adam didn't understand why something sexual couldn't happen between them and she was at a loss to get that through to Adam herself.
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If I am remembering correctly, was this after he started being influenced by Nicholas, telling him to "take what he wanted"?
Yep. He proclaimed to her "I am a man" and "Take what I want!" My feeling is that the writers wouldn't have cut away during that scene had they not wanted to give the implication that he raped her. And when we next see Carolyn as she descends the stairs to phone Stokes, her hair is disheveled, and while speaking to him she seems very out of sorts.
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Yep. He proclaimed to her "I am a man" and "Take what I want!" My feeling is that the writers wouldn't have cut away during that scene had they not wanted to give the implication that he raped her. And when we next see Carolyn as she descends the stairs to phone Stokes, her hair is disheveled, and while speaking to him she seems very out of sorts.
I'm watching this storyline right now, though I have not gotten to this specific episode yet. However, I can sort of see it coming. First, Adam is fascinated with the concept of love via his reading, and Carolyn brushes him off. Then, Nicholas introduces the idea of masculinity as taking what you want, offering Adam an alternate course of action. The stage is set for a rape subtext before the actual scene Midnite describes even takes place.
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I always thought Adam had raped Carolyn (or at least tried to) from the time I first saw this episode; subsequent viewings only reinforced that opinion. It was a very shocking scene.
I don't believe Carolyn felt anything but friendship for Adam (definitenly not at this stage, and posibly not ever) and certainly would not have willingly had sex with him.
ProfStokes
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I always thought Adam had raped Carolyn (or at least tried to) from the time I first saw this episode
I do think there's a very strong possibility that Adam may have tried (especially given the ideas that Nicholas was filling his head with) - but purely going from my memory of how everything played out and my impressions at the times I've watched it all, I don't think he succeeded. In fact, I don't think Adam even got much more than cuddling from Eve. I'd speculate that Adam remained a virgin during his entire time in Collinsport - which might go a long way in explaining why he was so irritable most of the time. [b003]
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I think in the Adam & Eve storyline, not a whole lot made any sense anyway, so i guess you could almost imagine almost anything happening and it probably happened. I really didnt like that part of the show anyway, and to this day, i dont know how Barnabas became a vampire again when as long as Adam lives, Barnabas would be free of the curse. JVjr
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Well, we know that so long as Adam lived, Barnabas was free of Angelique's curse. Who knows if Adam's life actually completely guarded Barn from other forms of attack. [idontknow] The thing is nothing in the DS universe seems to be as it appears at first view. For example, Quentin's portrait appeared to make him [spoiler]impervious to physical maladies and attacks and to make him immortal - yet whenever Quentin was buried alive (and lucky, lucky him - that happened to him twice), the show made it a point that there was a very real danger that he would die if he wasn't rescued in time. And until Jeb's curse, with the exception of Ang trying to reinstate her curse, which may have been a special case, nothing was ever allowed to play out long enough with Barn for us to find out for sure one way or the other whether Barn really was guarded from it because of Adam - though we certainly saw how Adam was affected by Ang's attacks on Barn. And with that in mind, I've always thought that it might have been a very real possibility that when Barn became a vampire under Jeb's curse, Adam did as well. I even began writing but was never able to find the time to finish a fanfic with that very premise as one of its plotlines.[/spoiler]
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I assume the connection between Barnabas and Adam was severed when Barnabas went back to 1897. However, that doesn't explain the other inconsistencies with the bond between the two of them. For example, when Adam [spoiler]took a nosedive off Widows' Hill Barnabas should have felt it as well.[/spoiler]That didn't seem to happen.
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Oh, yeah - I forgot about that incident with Adam. How very odd that Barnabas wasn't physically affected as well because we know for certain that Adam did indeed sustain some injuries - it wasn't as if [spoiler]jumping from Widows' Hill was simply like jumping a few feet for the rest of us.[/spoiler]
You also make an interesting point about 1897. Barnabas' physical body did remain in the I Ching trance for a time, and presumably its connection to Adam remained as well, but [spoiler]then it disappeared to who knows where after Edward disrupted Barn's attempt to return to 1969 - not to return until presumably the Leviathans were somehow able to reunite Barn's 1969 self with his 1969 body and rechain his 1796 body and self in the coffin. So, the disappearance of Barn's 1969 body may have severed the connection with Adam...[/spoiler]
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I assume the connection between Barnabas and Adam was severed when Barnabas went back to 1897.
That would turn the Barnabas/Adam/Julia part of Sam Hall's TV Guide article into nonsense - just in case it wasn't nonsense to begin with.
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Ah, and then there's that - which I'd also completely forgotten about. So, then apparently the writers didn't intend for the connection between Barnabas and Adam to be severed...
Actually, though, the writers had indeed intended for some of the things in the TV Guide article to take place on the show had it continued into present day 1971.
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Oh, yeah - I forgot about that incident with Adam. How very odd that Barnabas wasn't physically affected as well because we know for certain that Adam did indeed sustain some injuries - it wasn't as if [spoiler]jumping from Widows' Hill was simply like jumping a few feet for the rest of us.[/spoiler]
Here's my question about that:
[spoiler]When Barnabas was mistakenly buried alive by Julia and Willie, we see Adam holding his hands above his chest in the same position that Barnabas would have his to try to push the coffin open. So, when Adam took that leap, did Barnabas take a pratfall in the middle of whatever he was doing?[/spoiler] ;D
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Um, I don't think so - [spoiler]wasn't Barnabas on Widows' Hill at the same time that Adam jumped? He was there trying to save Carolyn, right?[/spoiler]
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Um, I don't think so - [spoiler]wasn't Barnabas on Widows' Hill at the same time that Adam jumped? He was there trying to save Carolyn, right?[/spoiler]
It happened before the 1897 storyline, so I don't remember it too well. ;)
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Geez! I've been trying to post to this topic for days but each time I try a computer malfunction screws it all up! And THEN when I just NOW tried to click "reply" that pig mask floated over top of it and I ended up calling Jeb a "cheap, insufferable pig" instead. At least THAT had pleasent results.
Anyway, IMHO, it's more than likely that Adam and Carolyn DID NOT do the deed. Because IIRC Adam still was in stupid-mode at this time, not knowing what was what or how to talk. So it's unlikely that he would've known how to have sex. Or even what it was.
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I watched this episode -- actually, I should say these episodes -- last night.
[spoiler]Adam has Carolyn locked in the room with him, he throws the key on the floor when she asks for it, and then he grabs her when she tries to get it and holds her by the arms. The two are on their knees and he is forcibly kissing her when the scene cuts away. That's the last image we have the two of them together before the episode ends. The next episode begins with Carolyn walking downstairs to call Prof. Stokes. She's visibly upset, and her hair is messed up. It's a definite hair/wardrobe decision, not some incidental carryover from the previous scene.[/spoiler]
I think it's possible to read the scene either way, though the important point is that Carolyn is now terrified to be alone with Adam because he has forced himself on her (to whatever degree) after being told repeatedly that she isn't interested. Either way, there is a physical violation involved.
Frankly, what disturbs me more after watching it is the extent to which she continues to sympathize with Adam, but I never quite understood that whole situation in the first place.
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I don't think Adam and Carolyn did the "deed" nor do think think Adam raped her but I think Carolyn feared that if she didn't have him removed from her care, something like that could occur in the future. It seemed like it could have gone that way but I think if it had, the writers would have written it differently. Remember in the 1841PT when Bramwell kidnapped Catherine and took her to the Old House? You know without a doubt there was sex involved because they are on the bed, Bramwell is fixing his tie and later she announces she's pregnant with his child. We never hear or see anything close to that happening to Carolyn.
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I got another question: [spoiler]When Barnabas was bricked up behind the wall by Trask's ghost, he had to be, to put it lightly, mighty uncomfortable, what with strugging for air....how come Adam wasn't doing the same thing? He did when Julia and Willie had buried Barnabas in the woods....was this yet another snafu by the writers?[/spoiler]
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As for Quentin and the portarait, think of it this way: if Q had died from being buried alive, he would have been dead, but would have continued to look the same as before. The portrait would have continued decomposing for him. He'd be a perfectly preserved corpse. The portrait doesn't make you immortal. It makes you unchangeable in terms of how you appear.
Whether Q is alive or dead, the simplest and most straightforward way of making you continue to look the same is to stop deterioration, from age or death. It can't stop anything from coming along and damaging Q, like a vampire trying to drive a car. The portrait doesn't repair anything, it just prevents decay.