DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '07 I => Topic started by: dom on February 13, 2007, 06:15:10 PM
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Do we ever see Jenny sane in flashbacks?
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that would have been nice, Dom, but no.
she does appear as a reasonably sane ghost, though.
David
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Thanks, David.
Anyone think flashbacks to a sane Jenny could have served any useful purpose in the 1897 storyline as we know it?
I'm also wondering if anyone thinks that Diana Davila (Julianka) would have made a good Jenny? I can totally see her in the role, especially in flashbacks because if I remember correctly, part of Jenny's allure was her dancing. DD more than M. Wallace comes across to me as someone who could pull off a wild and sexy gypsy dance. I can't picture MW doing cartwheels, lol.
Also wondering if anyone thinks that a less sympathetic portrayal of Jenny would have worked as well in the storyline?
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if I remember correctly, part of Jenny's allure was her dancing. DD more than M. Wallace comes across to me as someone who could pull off a wild and sexy gypsy dance. I can't picture MW doing cartwheels, lol.
I thought Jenny's talent was singing.
Also wondering if anyone thinks that a less sympathetic portrayal of Jenny would have worked as well in the storyline?
I think such a portrayal would have been at odds with the goal of the 1897 story, which was to show what a louse Quentin was and how he came to be cursed and then to haunt Collinwood as an evil ghost. If Jenny were a shrew who drove her husband into the arms of another woman, for example, then the audience would side with Quentin and see him as a victim rather than a villain. As the story actually played out, it was a tragedy for all concerned.
Seeing flashbacks of a not-so-crazy Jenny would have been delightful, since she is one of my favorite DS characters and I've often wondered what her early life at Collinwood and her relationship with Quentin was like. However, I don't know where such scenes could have fitted into the 1897 storyline; they most likely would have slowed the pace or detracted from the other mysteries and issues of the time. Although, I suppose there's always fan fiction.
ProfStokes
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Seeing flashbacks of a not-so-crazy Jenny would have been delightful, since she is one of my favorite DS characters and I've often wondered what her early life at Collinwood and her relationship with Quentin was like.
I agree. Apparently Jenny became the unstable woman that we see her as after Quentin left her and Collinwood. It would have been interesting to see if there were any hints to her instabilty priot to that point and quite interesting to see how it fully developed after Quentin left [spoiler](being alone and pregnant probably had much to do with it).[/spoiler]
However, I don't know where such scenes could have fitted into the 1897 storyline; they most likely would have slowed the pace or detracted from the other mysteries and issues of the time.
Unfortunately, that's true. But as you say:
I suppose there's always fan fiction.
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Jenny's talent was indeed singing. Great voice she had I always thought.
I feel the role of Jenny was Marie's best role on the show and I don't think anyone could have done a better job, not even Diana who made Julianka a memorable short-term character nonetheless.
Yeah making Jenny a lot less sympathetic than she was would have indeed defeated the purpose of the storyline......I mean the character of Quentin really changed thoughout the 1897 storyline and very believably too. We were meant to hate him at the beginning and then we wind up sympathizing with him as he matured beyond the womanizing, selfish boozer to a real mature adult finally capable of think about the needs and welfare of others beyond his own.
I really don't think the story would have played out as greatly as it did had we been on Quentin's side from the beginning.
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How exactly is Jenny [spoiler]related to magda? I know J is M's sister, but dark skinned black haired Magda and light skinned red haired Jenny? [confused_ani][/spoiler] Were any questions of Jenny's pedigree brought up?
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I don't think that was ever brought up, Nelson. Other than the fact that the Collins family detested [spoiler]Jenny and Magda and Sandor because they were gypsies and obviously "below" them,[/spoiler]nothing more was really said about it. [spoiler]Magda and Jenny were sisters,[/spoiler] that was that.
And I agree that it would've been great to see flashbacks of Jenny and Quentin. Maybe when they first met, then flashfoward to them getting married and Quentin bringing her home for the first time, etc etc. It really would've played out well if they had've made Jenny remember these things while [spoiler]sitting in the cell. Instead of cooing to her babies[/spoiler]she could've been reminiscing about Quentin, remembering how she loved him only to snap out of her flashback in a fit of rage.
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Well, given that every other gypsy in 1897 (IIRC)[spoiler]is swarthy and black haired, perhaps Jenny was stolen as a baby. That or perhaps there is a redheaded fair skinned milkman or postman ....[/spoiler] ;D
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Discussing how ethnic groups were portrayed is a natural part of discussion about the show, but it should be done without sweeping statements that perpetuate racial myths. I realize the edited comment was made in jest, but that doesn't make it less offensive.
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Just wanted to comment that it has all to do with genes and dominant and resesive genes. Think of Mendle's flowers Red flower and white flower makes a pink flower. Also in the past people have been known to bleach their skin. I can understand why people would have done this, but I wish that they never would have been forces to do this. It is wrong. Also this was right after the Civil War and there was still strong fealings on the subject.
In some way this was a very strong comment on how people view people at times this was a very powerfull statement on how it was wrong to view people that way. Maybe an suttle comment on what was going on in the 60's
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Maybe an suttle comment on what was going on in the 60's
You may have a point there, but the cynic in me thinks it was probably more likely to surprise viewers who might have guessed there was another reason why the gypsies kept hanging around the estate if Jenny had been made up to look more like Magda.
And Midnite - I apologize for any offense. My earlier comment was indeed an ironic one, not intended to be an actual opinion on my part.
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Was it Jenny who:
[spoiler]stabbed and killed Quentin?[/spoiler]
I can't remember at what point in the storyline this took place. I'm almost certain it was pretty early on. I am having a real hard time with how the family dealt with:
[spoiler]him being a zombie and then coming back to natural life. Was zombie Quentin only seen by a few who were dismissed as having halucinations? That kind of sounds right. But everyone knew he was dead and he did come back into the storyline as a living breathing normal person. (The poor guy should have stayed dead, he would have been much better off, lol.)[/spoiler]
Hell, I don't even remember what happened to Jenny. I guess I need to find a concise synopsis of 1897 somewhere on-line. ::)
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Hell, I don't even remember what happened to Jenny. I guess I need to find a concise synopsis of 1897 somewhere on-line. ::)
IIRC,
[spoiler]Quentin vows to kill Jenny, and eventually finds and strangles her. Magda then puts the werewolf curse on Quentin in revenge (because Jenny was her sister).[/spoiler]
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Jenny did the deed after he saw Quentin and Beth together. She [spoiler]waited at the cottage for Quentin to come--I can't remember if he was meeting Beth or Laura, I think it was Beth--and then stabbed him. Eventually Quentin killed Jenny prompting Magda to place the curse on him.[/spoiler]
As for Quentin becoming a zombie [spoiler]that was after Barnabas got Angelique to help to bring him back to life because he wasn't supposed to die yet (according to Barnabas who I guess had done research on him before traveling back through time or something) and as a result he became a zombie because Angelique wanted to use him as a bargaining chip[/spoiler] or some such nonsense.
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I could be misremembering, but didn't the Collinses dislike Jenny because she [spoiler]was an entertainer - and it wasn't until much later that they learned she was a gypsy and Magda's sister?[/spoiler]
Also, perhaps DS was picking up on and utilizing in a limited way a plot twist that was running on OLTL at the time in which a [spoiler]black woman (Carla Gray) was passing herself off as white - and she could get away with it because her skin was so fair.[/spoiler]
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Just wanted to comment that it has all to do with genes and dominant and resesive genes. Think of Mendle's flowers Red flower and white flower makes a pink flower.
Actually, Mendel didn't encounter those results, though it doesn't mean his genetic principles were incorrect for the data he collected. The result he obtained was that a purple flower + white flower = purple flower hybrid (the purple flower phenotype clearly was dominant). And when he crossed the hybrids, purple flower + purple flower = 75% purple / 25% white.
The example you gave of red + white = pink is actually a result of incomplete dominance.
Recessive vs. dominant genes do, however, explain how blue-eyed Quentin and Angelique could have legitimately produced brown-eyed David.
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how blue-eyed Quentin and Angelique could have legitimately produced brown-eyed David.
Oops, Daniel. ::)
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Oh yeah! Thanks guys. I still had no recollection of it after reading NC's reply until I read your's Brandon. Then it all came back to me.
[spoiler]Jenny should have stabbed them both. Beth's betrayal is as unforgivable.[/spoiler]
I wonder what Magda thought happened to Jenny while Magda was on the estate? I can't imagine her being content with Jenny's situation as it was -
[spoiler]You know, being crazy and locked away in the tower room, her children being raised off the estate, etc. I can't imagine Magda not already cursing Quentin for that alone had she known.[/spoiler]
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[spoiler]You know, being crazy and locked away in the tower room, her children being raised off the estate, etc. I can't imagine Magda not already cursing Quentin for that alone had she known.[/spoiler]
I haven't reached that point in the story (1897 is almost completely new to me),
[spoiler]did Magda even know Jenny was in the tower? Or where the children were?[/spoiler]
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That's what I am wondering, too. You wouldn't think so, would you? Keep me posted, lol.
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Read only if you want to know beforehand: [spoiler]Magda had no idea Jenny had been locked away at Collinwood until she found her sister in Josette's room at the Old House. Nor did she know of the existance of Quentin and Jenny's twins at that time.
Also when Magda put the curse on Quentin, she also cursed any future male decendants of his, not knowing he already had a son. I doubt Magda would have gone as far as she had with the curse if she had known about Quentin's and Jenny's children.[/spoiler]
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I could be misremembering, but didn't the Collinses dislike Jenny because she [spoiler]was an entertainer - and it wasn't until much later that they learned she was a gypsy and Magda's sister?[/spoiler]
I also believe that Q delighted in the fact that the family was repulsed (or would be repulsed) by their union. I wonder if he even loved her or if it was all 'teenage rebellion syndrome' (for lack of a better term). He didn't seem to have a problem...
[spoiler]...cheating on his wife with his sister-in-law and leaving his wife to follow his lover half way around the world to Egypt.[/spoiler]
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Thanks IlB, that's what makes sense, but I couldn't be sure if that's what happened.
Anyone know of an on-line synopsis of 1897? I'd like to look up the timeline of events.
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Recessive vs. dominant genes do, however, explain how blue-eyed Quentin and Angelique could have legitimately produced brown-eyed David.
No. Blue-eyed Quentin and blue-eyed Angelique could not have produced brown-eyed Daniel because the gene for blue eyes is recessive.
Jenny did the deed after he saw Quentin and Beth together. She [spoiler]waited at the cottage for Quentin to come--I can't remember if he was meeting Beth or Laura, I think it was Beth--and then stabbed him.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]When Jenny actually stabbed Quentin and he died in the cottage and became a zombie, it had nothing to do with Beth. It was just Jenny being crazy. It was much later, in Beth's bedroom, that Jenny attacked Quentin because she saw him with Beth, upon which Quentin killed Jenny.[/spoiler]
It's posts like these that make me love Dark Shadows. Murder seems like a tennis game - "The score is 1 all. Match point coming up."
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No. Blue-eyed Quentin and blue-eyed Angelique could not have produced brown-eyed Daniel because the gene for blue eyes is recessive.
It's much much more common to see the reverse, but yes, it is possible. You have to forget what you were taught in high school-- that brown eyes are dominant over blue eyes-- because in fact eye color is influenced by more than just one gene. Through recombination and inheritance from both parents, the dominant phenotype (i.e. brown eyes) can emerge from parents with a largely recessive phenotype (blue eyes). (Getting back to DS, PT Quentin's and Angelique's ancestry is not completely clear.) My information comes from my Masters studies in Developmental Biology, but if you'd prefer to hear it from a geneticist, that's cool with me:
http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=29
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I should have known better than to argue with Midnite on a biology-type issue. I still don't get it and I never will, because science makes my eyes (blue, by the way) cross...but I believe it.
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Also, perhaps DS was picking up on and utilizing in a limited way a plot twist that was running on OLTL at the time in which a [spoiler]black woman (Carla Gray) was passing herself off as white - and she could get away with it because her skin was so fair.[/spoiler]
You have some memory MB,that was Sadie's daughter on OLTL. She was calling herself Carla Minorrie and engaged to a white guy who didn't know she was black. While discussing the civil rights movement of the sixties with my youngest son the other day,I brought up that story line.
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It's much much more common to see the reverse, but yes, it is possible. You have to forget what you were taught in high school-- that brown eyes are dominant over blue eyes-- because in fact eye color is influenced by more than just one gene. Through recombination and inheritance from both parents, the dominant phenotype (i.e. brown eyes) can emerge from parents with a largely recessive phenotype (blue eyes).
Case in point, my family. Entire family, Mom, Dad, 2 of my sisters and myself have brown eyes and brown hair. My youngest sister has blue eyes and blonde hair. Is there anything in the genes about hand domination? My two older sisters are left handed (twins) and all 4 of my nieces (2 to each sister) are left handed as well, though everyone else is right handed.
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Is there anything in the genes about hand domination? My two older sisters are left handed (twins) and all 4 of my nieces (2 to each sister) are left handed as well, though everyone else is right handed.
This is waaay off topic so I'll be brief. First off, there are 2 gene variants-- 1 for Right handedness (which is more common) and 1 for Left handedness. One inherited from each parent results in 3 possible combinations: R/R, L/L or R/L. So to answer your question, the gene variant for right-handedness is dominant in the sense that R/R results in right-handedness HOWEVER anytime that a gene variant for left-handedness is present (L/L or R/L), environmental factors will determine the outcome.
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Also, perhaps DS was picking up on and utilizing in a limited way a plot twist that was running on OLTL at the time in which a [spoiler]black woman (Carla Gray) was passing herself off as white - and she could get away with it because her skin was so fair.[/spoiler]
Hmm, never saw that soap, but I'm making an educated guess that it may not have been an accident. In doing some background research for fanfiction, I did a lot of reading up on the Rom, and attitudes toward them in that time. Interesting fact I discovered (and found that someone had also used for a different Rom character in an excellent DS online novel) is that, at the time -- a very racist time when eugenics was used as an excuse for this prejudice -- the Rom were classed as "negro' or "colored". Which, if you think about it,would have horrified our self important Collins family NO end -- not to mention the number of states in which miscegination was a serious crime.
The History work strikes again. [homework] [wavey]
Jeannie