DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '07 I => Topic started by: Watching Project on February 08, 2007, 06:01:57 AM

Title: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: Watching Project on February 08, 2007, 06:01:57 AM: Quote from: ROBINV on October 31, 2001, 07:01:38 PM
Robservations - #229
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: Gothick on February 08, 2007, 06:03:14 PM: Again, the split personality syndrome in the vampire's victim--tired and near-lifeless by day, alert and evil-triumphant by night. KLS played this part brilliantly, I thought.

Vicki looked extra cute in the Blue Whale in this show. Otherwise, I don't really have much to say about it.

G.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on February 08, 2007, 06:13:41 PM: Quote from: Gothick on February 08, 2007, 06:03:14 PM
evil-triumphant by night. KLS played this part brilliantly, I thought.

Indeed. I love this shot of Maggie:

(http://www.dsboards.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9032.0;id=3982)
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: Jackie on February 08, 2007, 06:16:24 PM: Poor Maggie, she is so weak and frightened. She is acting much like Willie did when he got back to Collinwood. Since Willie seems better now, after his body was able to get use to the changes it was going through, hopefully Maggie will get better too.

My first question is: why didn't Sam call the doctor when he saw Maggie wasn't getting up? It's 4 p.m. and she's still sleeping. That should be a clue she's very sick. But why does Maggie say "the doctor can't help me" unless she KNOWS what's wrong with her... like Willie?

Burke and Vicki are talking at the Blue Whale. One place for the viewers to catch up on what's happening, I suppose. "The unemployment is going down here," Burke says, "I wonder what it all means." Some shady deals, supernatural and just plain natural.

Woodard #1, with nose suck in the air [for some reason] announces the obvious to us, that Maggie has lost a great deal of blood. Does he remember Willie at all? I'm surprised he didn't share that bit of information. How is the doctor able to know she lost so much blood by just looking at her? Doesn't he have to take extensive tests to know the volume of blood is low? Sam leaves to go to the Blue Whale for a drink to loosen up. Since he's so worried about Maggie, he should go to the liquor store, buy a bottle and come home. Then he and Joe can sit, visit and have a friendly drink so Joe isn't all alone with Maggie sleeping. Nice little sound effects of Sam whistling and driving off in the background.

Whoops, we can see the stage wood plank that holds the wall in place. The camera got a little too wide on that shot. ;)

It must be night because Maggie is wide awake, stronger and angry about being watched. Did she open the doors in her room for fresh air or to let "HIM" in? Getting mad at Joe and throwing him out leaves her free for her "new friend". Poor Joe. Maggie's personality has flipped-flopped 180 degrees.

Sam explains Maggie's condition to Burke and Vicki, who recognizes the same symptoms that Willie had earlier. At least Vicki is still observant. Why isn't the doctor?

Hearing that Maggie is alone in the cottage, Sam runs home. But it's not good when he finds the cottage deserted, the doors in Maggie's room open and knowing his daughter is sick. Not too sick to go out. Did she go to "HIM"?
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: loril54 on February 08, 2007, 06:19:02 PM: Dr Guthrie doesn't seem as smart as Vickie, (Now that is a laugh), why can't he put it together.
Maggie has really changed >:D she is a meanie. Even though Barn is not in this episode he is completly there. He had planed this by giving Sam the Night off [evil1] [evil3]

I just don't know why anyone is not putting it together. Maybe they had not watched alot of Monster Movies ???
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: IluvBarnabas on February 08, 2007, 06:23:34 PM: I must say it wasn't very wise of Joe to leave Maggie all alone no matter what she threatened or how angry or physical she got (ooh would have loved to have seen these two duke it out [poke2]). She was obviously NOT herself and no she really didn't know what she was talking about. At the very least, he should have stayed outside and no further than 5 feet from the house, just keep out of view so Maggie couldn't have seen him.

It's so nice to see Vicki in this period when she still "understood" things....as you say, she was more observant of Maggie's illness and symptons being similiar to Willie's than the doctor was.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on February 08, 2007, 06:29:32 PM: Well, we know that Dr. Woodard connects Willie and Maggie's symptoms. It just wouldn't do plotwise for him to be the one to voice that connection first (give that honor to one of the regular characters). But that doesn't necessarily mean Woodard wasn't thinking it. ;)
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: Lydia on February 08, 2007, 07:04:40 PM: Back to the Barnabas Plot today. Vicky does mention to Burke that Jason has a job at the cannery, but the whole question of why Elizabeth is behaving so strangely is not even mentioned, whereas on a Jason Plot day it would be the only possible subject of conversation.

Dr. Woodard applies a double standard to his patients. Bad boy Willie loses a lot of blood, but he isn't sick. Good girl Maggie loses blood, and she's a very sick girl.

So, how much does Maggie know of what's happening to her? It's a wonderfully mysterious setup. During the day she knows something is wrong, and she knows a doctor can't help her, and she knows she'd better not let anybody see her neck - but that seems to be all. At night, Barnabas is communicating with her - but does she know, consciously, that it is Barnabas? I like to think that all she really knows is that there is a Voice that must be obeyed. Oh, yeah, and that the Voice's Thirst must be quenched. Nice and shadowy.

These episodes have more car sound effects than I remember there being later in the show. Did they decide that car noises detracted from the supernatural atmosphere? Did the car sound tape get lost or erased? Or is my memory of the later episodes defective?
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on February 08, 2007, 07:22:25 PM: Quote from: Lydia on February 08, 2007, 07:04:40 PM
Dr. Woodard applies a double standard to his patients. Bad boy Willie loses a lot of blood, but he isn't sick. Good girl Maggie loses blood, and she's a very sick girl.

Well, we probably have to blame that on Ron Sproat and Malcolm Marmorstein. Sproat wrote Ep #219, whereas Marmorstein wrote Ep #229. Apparently they have differing views on what constitutes sickness and in whom. :D
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: Alondra on February 08, 2007, 08:32:21 PM: Episode #229

I love watching these old episodes again and complete episodes, not the chopped up ones from the videos. Why they did that I will never understand!

Maggie's in bed again, it's like she hasn't even woken up at all. Sam makes a trip to her room in the morning and sees she is sound asleep. The patio doors are open again, so once again that vampire didn't close them. I wonder what gives with this. He doesn't want to be discovered, and the open doors indicate someone was there. They are still not showing bite marks on the victim but one must wonder why she is so sick and what the open patio doors signify if anything. Sam leaves the room and goes to the phone, calls the coffee shop and tells them Maggie won't be into work today. Geeze Barnabas I hope you paid Sam an advance since you're stealing money from them by rendering Maggie incapable of working!

Later Maggie awakens and tries to rise but falls back onto the bed, weak as a newborn kitten. She begins to cry, obviously hating what's happening to her, and being powerless to stop it from happening.

Sam brings in a tray with coffee. When he touches her, she wakens, startled. He apologizes for frightening her and says she needs to eat something, she's been sleeping all day. She is horrified to find that it's 4:00 PM! How did she sleep so long? He tells her he called the coffee shop and let them know she wouldn't be in today, and encourages her to have coffee or soup and she declines. He tells her she needs to take care of herself. She's shocked to learn that the patio doors were left open again. Since she is worse today than yesterday, he is going to call the doctor and she refuses to see him. She lays back and cries "He can't help me!" Poor Maggie! She may not know all that's wrong but she knows it's not anything a doctor can cure.

I love the sensitivity of Sam Evans, and how he is so caring. He's always been one of my favorite characters.

At the Blue Whale Burke and Vicki have a toast to a "problem free evening." Yeah right, where do they think they live? Their discussion is anything but problem free. She tells him everything is crazy at Collinwood but without really getting into that he starts in about Willie working for Barnabas. Oh lay off Burke, at least wait and see if he makes any more problems. THEN rag on him will ya? Vicki tells him that Willie is fixing up the Old House for Barnabas, he seems to be skilled with his hands (!! Yeah ok well let's not go there... ;) ) He's doing a good job. Burke sarcastically says that maybe now Willie can be a respected member of the community. Sometimes I'd like to smack him. He thinks if Willie is over his illness he should leave town. Well you're still not the sheriff Burke so lay off! Vicki tells him about Jason now working for Collins enterprises and Burke is shocked. He hopes it's not near a cash register! That's the only thing I found myself agreeing with him about! He comments about the unemployment rate going down.

Later Joe comes to see Maggie and Sam tells him that Maggie is worse, the doctor is with her now. Dr. Woodard says that Maggie is very sick and has lost a lot of blood. I see others have commented on this and I had a little rant to do myself, but someone beat me to it, that Maggie was sick and Willie wasn't though they both experienced the same symptom, loss of blood. Sam thinks the doctor must be mistaken, what could have happened to cause this? Dr. Woodard says Maggie was most uncooperative, what kind of girl is Sam raising? This comment irked me (when will we have the REAL Dr. Woodard Robert Gerringer?) First Maggie is an adult now so her responses are her own, and not Sam's doing, this was a very irritating statement! She has no history of blood deficiency. Dr. Woodard gives Sam a diet for Maggie and some pills she's to take.

After the doctor leaves, Sam wants a drink and Joe encourages him to go down to the Blue Whale and have one, he will stay with Maggie. Sam leaves and Joe settles in with a magazine.

Maggie hears the dogs howling and sits up in bed. She opens the patio doors to await HIS arrival and then opens the bedroom door. When she sees Joe she asks where Pop is? At the Blue Whale. She becomes very angry about his sitting there babysitting her, she wants him to leave. She asks what she owes him, 25 cents or 50 cents an hour? (Gak I remember them days!) She flat orders him out of the house and even throws his coat at him. Says if he doesn't leave now she'll never speak to him again. He is shocked, he's never seen her this way before. Since he was given such a cordial invitation, he decides to leave. Afterward she had that smirk on her face. I don't like that look at all. It looks so predatory, and gives me the creeps.

Sam enters the Blue Whale and comes to talk with Burke and Vicki. Sam tells them everything that's happened with Maggie for the last two days. When Vicki hears this she realizes the symptoms are exactly what they were with Willie. (She's smarter than the doctor, WHY did they have to dumb her down later on?) She is the only one to make this connection. There really were two separate sets of people involved in each case though, Jason, Willie, Carolyn, and them at Collinwood, and Sam, Joe and Maggie at the Evans cottage. Joe might have also made a connection with the cattle though, they were also drained of blood. Everyone must wonder what's going on with all this blood deficiency all of a sudden? Joe enters and when Sam hears that Maggie threw him out he gets very agitated and leaves without even having his drink. This is a first for Sam! Joe says the drink will not go to waste, he'll have it. He comments that Maggie suddenly seemed stronger, and Vicki connects this with Willie, weak during the day and suddenly stronger at night.

Sam arrives at home and sees that Maggie is gone. He looks completely devastated. Poor Sam!!

It looks like that vampire has decided to stop making housecalls and wants his victim to come to him from now on.

Alondra
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: Alondra on February 08, 2007, 08:37:57 PM: Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on February 08, 2007, 07:22:25 PM
Well, we probably have to blame that on Ron Sproat and Malcolm Marmorstein. Sproat wrote Ep #219, whereas Marmorstein wrote Ep #229. Apparently they have differing views on what constitutes sickness and in whom. :D

The writers didn't always agree with each other. I wonder how much collaboration they were doing. Dan Curtis headed it up, and Art Wallace, but when the credits give one writer the credit for an episode does that mean he wrote the entire episode alone? I wonder how they divvied up the writing responsibilities.

We have noted on the Willie Loomis list that it appeared that Ron Sproat did the best job when it came to Willie. I haven't really taken the time to make any kind deep observation on this, someday I would like to.

Alondra
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on February 08, 2007, 08:53:03 PM: Quote from: Alondra on February 08, 2007, 08:37:57 PM
when the credits give one writer the credit for an episode does that mean he wrote the entire episode alone?

Yup. At least the new material. If, say, the material in the teaser repeats the ending from the previous script, that may have been written by someone else.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: Jackie on February 09, 2007, 01:43:04 AM: Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on February 08, 2007, 06:29:32 PM
Well, we know that Dr. Woodard connects Willie and Maggie's symptoms. It just wouldn't do plotwise for him to be the one to voice that connection first (give that honor to one of the regular characters). But that doesn't necessarily mean Woodard wasn't thinking it. ;)

You have a very good point, Woodard probably did connect the two at this time but chose not to share it with Sam and Joe. The only people who know about Willie's condition is Jason, Woodard, Roger and Vicki was was told by one of them. Mrs. Stoddard was probably told too. So Burke, Sam and Joe don't know the connection, yet. This leaves me to suspect that "this" Woodard isn't as friendly with the Collins and Evans as he will become later. Later, Woodard #2 seemed to share more with all of them. Or maybe it's just the cold indifference this doctor portrays vs Woodard #2 who's warmed on screen.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: loril54 on February 09, 2007, 01:49:34 AM: Quote from: Jackie on February 09, 2007, 01:43:04 AM
This leaves me to suspect that "this" Woodard isn't as friendly with the Collins and Evans as he will become later. Later, Woodard #2 seemed to share more with all of them. Or maybe it's just the cold indifference this doctor portrays vs Woodard #2 who's warmed on screen.

Jackie good point and by the way I like your Ican. WOW.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: IluvBarnabas on February 09, 2007, 01:53:37 AM: Yeah, Jackie, I must say how much I love your new avatar....I always loved those exact scenes between Joshua and Barnabas after Joshua finally learns the truth.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: Jackie on February 09, 2007, 02:13:19 AM: Thanks IluvBarnabas and loril54, I think this is the first time we see Joshua really emotional. He is one who changes during the course of the series, that is for sure! LE is SO good in his part as Barnabas' father!!
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: IluvBarnabas on February 09, 2007, 02:39:24 AM: I totally agree. As much as I love LE's portrayal as Roger, Joshua was my favorite among his many brilliant roles because he was the one who went through the most emotional growth throughout 1795. Also Joshua could be pretty dang funny. Examples: [spoiler]The family is sitting in silence at Collinwood after Millicent and Nathan's wedding. Naomi breaks the ice by saying "Joshua, I believe it's customary to toast the bride and groom." Joshua's response: "Yes it is customary, isn't it?" and says no more. Funny!

When Joshua confronts Angelique when he hears about her and Barnabas' engagement:

Angelique: I only want your approval, your good will.

Joshua: That you will NEVER have!!!

Angelique: I want you to like me...

Joshua: NEVER!!!!

Also last but not least Joshua is mad at Naomi and Abigail for eavesdropping on him:

"Can't I have a conversation in this house without all the women hiding behind corners listening to every word I say?"[/spoiler]

Simply put Joshua was Louis at his best IMO.
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: Midnite on February 09, 2007, 04:21:18 AM: Quote from: loril54 on February 09, 2007, 01:49:34 AM
Jackie ... and by the way I like you Ican. WOW.

I'm sorry, Ican?
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: CT!_CTP/FITBs on February 09, 2007, 06:32:51 AM: Be sure to check out these (hopefully ;)) humorous topics related to this episode:

From "Caption This!":
Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on May 12, 2006, 04:17:33 AM
Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on February 08, 2007, 06:43:31 AM
Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on February 08, 2007, 06:43:42 AM

From "Complete This Phrase / Fill In The Blank(s)":
(none yet)
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: EmeraldRose on February 09, 2007, 09:16:25 AM: I'm glad that Vickie was the one who brought up the similarity between Willie and Maggie's "illnesses". As was mentioned before, It makes sense that Vickie would be the one to do it, because she's the connection between Willie and Maggie. I like Vickie this way - it's too bad they "dumbed her up". [sad3]

KLS did an excellent job of being "Maggie the Bitch" today. The makeup job on her was great, too. That "look" WAS pretty creepy! [shkdg]

I mentioned this before, but it's worth repeating. It's interesting the dichotomy between Willie and Maggie, due to the "influence" of Barnabas. Willie went from a "bad guy" to a "good guy" - and Maggie went from a "nice girl" to a bitch.

I also really like Sam's fatherly concern for Maggie. It's very touching. [spoiler]It's too bad that David Ford had only about a year left on the show. I hated it when Adam killed Sam.[/spoiler]

---- Sally -----
[coolg]
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: Alondra on February 09, 2007, 04:37:59 PM: Quote from: EmeraldRose on February 09, 2007, 09:16:25 AM
I mentioned this before, but it's worth repeating. It's interesting the dichotomy between Willie and Maggie, due to the "influence" of Barnabas. Willie went from a "bad guy" to a "good guy" - and Maggie went from a "nice girl" to a bitch.

I also really like Sam's fatherly concern for Maggie. It's very touching. [spoiler]It's too bad that David Ford had only about a year left on the show. I hated it when Adam killed Sam.[/spoiler]

Interesting observation. I hadn't thought of it that way. What a lovely influence that vampire has on people. Willie was bad and became good, Maggie was good and became bad. Well at least temporarily.

I love Sam Evans too, actually, I think he's rather cute. And I utterly despise what happened to him, [spoiler]when Cassandra made him blind so she could take her portrait. It was one thing to render him blind for the moment to take it but she left him that way. I can't forgive her for that, I hate her for it. And I think it's one of the saddest scenes on the show when that poor man suddenly can't see. Not only did she make him blind she rendered him unable to make a living since he was a painter. But he was so kind to Adam and tried to help him, which was admirable, he didn't become embittered at his condition, but reached out to help another. I admire him for that.[/spoiler]

Alondra
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: IluvBarnabas on February 09, 2007, 05:51:36 PM: I agree with you wholeheartedly, Alondra, on Cassandra.

[spoiler]In fact I think she's more to blame for Sam's death than Adam was.

Even though Adam was the one who caused Sam's accident, I think Sam could have recovered had Cassandra
hadn't found a way to make him have the dream. Poor guy just couldn't take all the mental torture that came with the dream and it killed him.

And then as if that wasn't bad enough, Cassandra the bitch wouldn't even let him rest in peace. She raises his ghost and forces him to tell the dream to Vicki. She does let him go back to his grave but not until she makes him do her dirty work for her.

People have said Angelique was at her cruellest as Cassandra....she certainly was when it came to poor old Sam Evans.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: Midnite on February 09, 2007, 06:01:08 PM: Click:
Quote from: Midnite on January 23, 2007, 05:50:11 AM
To remove a signature¢â‚¬¦
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on February 09, 2007, 08:03:48 PM: Quote from: Alondra on February 09, 2007, 04:37:59 PM
[spoiler]Not only did she make him blind she rendered him unable to make a living since he was a painter.[/spoiler]

That was exactly her point. She showed Sam that no one fiddles with her portrait and gets away with it. She told him she would leave him alone if he gave her the portrait because she had nothing against him - but when he wouldn't, she gave what she'd later termed "fair warning." In her twisted way, [spoiler]taking Sam's sight was exactly what she thought he deserved for daring to defy and "attack" her.[/spoiler] She's nothing if not a vengeful bitch, er, witch. [wink2]
Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0229
Post by: Sunny_Collins on February 22, 2007, 04:36:19 AM: Maggie really goes through a roller coaster of emotions, from angry and rude to sad and listless. Poor thing!

Sam's concern for her is very well portrayed, and when she says in such a despairing voice that a doctor can't help her, it's so very sad. :(