DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '07 I => Topic started by: Janet the Wicked on February 07, 2007, 03:53:03 AM
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As far as I'm concerned, there is no greater love on DS as the love Willie felt for Maggie.
You may comment...
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I don't know about that....Barnabas pined for Josette for two centuries. Every woman Barnabas met, he compared them to Josette or tried to make them like Josette. He really loved her like he did no other woman (ignoring that stupid twist at the end of 1840).
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Oh Willie pined for Maggie, he carried a torch for her, but I wouldn't say it was DS's greatest love. I'm not sure just what I would say was DS's greatest love. Maybe it was Quentin's love for himself.
Now excuse me while I send an email to someone who I know is gonna want to comment on this.
Alondra
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Willie may have pined for Maggie but I wouldn't necessarily call that "love". And she never reciprocated any feelings of love for him. She did seem to care for him more so later then when they first met. ;)
I would say the greatest love on DS was Julia's feelings towards Barnabas, which also was not reciprocated.
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Willie had some Angelique-like moments when it came to Maggie: he expressed definite interest in getting rid of Joe.
For true love, I suggest Sandor's love for Magda - worth more than $10,000!
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If I were scaling the greatest loves on DS, Willie and Maggie would be down there. I mean, here's what the list would look like (this is off the top of my head):
In terms of pining and actual love:
1. Barnabas and Josette
2. Barnabas and Julia
3. Barnabas and Angelique
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?. Willie and Maggie
You get my point. lol. But I wouldn't discount all that he did for her throughout the series, trying to protect her and do things for her own good, and often taking the fall for Barnabas in the process or taking the beating FROM Barnabas for attempting to save Maggie.
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As far as I'm concerned, there is no greater love on DS as the love Willie felt for Maggie.
Looks like someone just broached my favorite subject.
As far as his love being the greatest on DS, that's debateable. But I'd disagree with anyone who claimed that
it was any less than Quentin's love for his billions of love interests or that Barnabas could love anyone far
more than Willie could. :P As stated above, he put his life on the line for her multiple times. He even died for
her in House Of Dark Shadows. Despite the consequences-- and perhaps his not being in his right mind at the
time-- he even [spoiler]stole Josette's earrings for her[/spoiler] at the risk of a serious a$$ whoopin'! Does it
actually have to be reciprocated in order for it to be love? Idk. No, genuinely, I really don't. lol... But if this
was some cutesy infatuation, then why is he continuing to put his life on the line for her? He may have felt
guilty for releasing the vampire at first, but he saved her life enough times to at least deserve that "knight in
shining armor title". Instead, I think Willie was just sort of pushed aside and treated as the awkward and
bumbling stable boy with the dismissable crush on a regal lady.
Granted, I'm not saying he deserved her love a thousand times more than Joe did. This wasn't a competition (despite
what Willie might have thought ;D) but I think when you get past the point where you'd actually lay your
life on the line for the person you care so deeply about, then that's love.
Ah. I also seem to remember the original version of The Little Mermaid where the main character's love was not
reciprocated. Instead of returning her love, the man of her dreams found love in another and was set to marry her (if
I remember correctly). While at sea, the erstwhile mermaid's sisters emerged from the sea and offered her a knife to
kill the prince. They told her to bathe in his blood (I know. Gruesome.) and that that would cause her to become a
mermaid once more. As I recall, she couldn't do it.
My point? For it to be love, it doesn't really have to be reciprocated.
Btw? I think the mermaid protagonist killed herself. You see her smiling spirit in the clouds as the guy she loved married
that other girl. ::)
Oh, don't get me started on Barnabas and Josette, Brandon. >:D Didn't Barnabas cheat on Josette? What was
that? A part of her valentines gift? "Yeah, here's some chocolates, my dear, and a beautiful music box. By the
way, I kind of tore up the bedsheets doing that maid of yours." No. My husband knows what would happen to him
if he even laid eyes on another woman. It just ain't happenin'. So I'm not sure that I'd place old faithful above Willie
on my list of greatest loves, personally.
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I guess I would consider Willie's feelings towards Maggie as being more of a super-crush. He did (sometimes in his own anti-social way) things that were more like what a googly-eyed schoolboy would do for his teacher, even day-dreaming about marrying her while, deep down, he knew it was never going to happen.
Gerard
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Oh, don't get me started on Barnabas and Josette, Brandon. >:D Didn't Barnabas cheat on Josette?
From what I gathered from the show, it isn't until after his affair with Angelique he fell in love with Josette and learned she loved him, too. [spoiler]I recall one scene where he stated that he didn't think Josette even loved him and that he didn't think she would have him. I've always thought Angelique was before, and instead of being firm with her he left it sort of open ended in Martinique, thinking he would never see her again, anyway. He had a golden opportunity to cheat at the Old House in Angelique's room before Josette arrived, but he refused.[/spoiler]
Willie and Maggie....they're a couple that never was. I would've liked to have seen them together. I would've liked to have seen Willie with one of the main female characters on the show, period. I wouldn't call it the greatest love on the show, I think.....but I do think he loved her. Out of all the people they put Maggie with, I was always like "Why not Willie?". I wanted to see them together after [spoiler]Joe and Maggie broke up, instead of the whole Nicholas fiasco.[/spoiler]
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I think Willie obviously did love Maggie (as others have pointed out he did risk his life for her many times) but I have to wonder if he actually ever really was IN love with her....I mean I think he THOUGHT he was at one time [spoiler]since he was at one time ready to kill Joe over her, but I think deep down he always felt so guilty for not helping her more than he did when Barnabas was holding her prisoner, a guilt that never quite went away.[/spoiler]
I won't argue that Willie was just as capable of loving someone as Barnabas or Julia, because I do think he loved Maggie in his own way, but the greatest love of DS? Not really. I still think that honor goes to Barnabas and Josette, with those two the love was equally mutual between those two.
Doesn't Willie deserve someone who'd return his feelings after all? Maggie only saw him as a good friend, and I don't think her feelings would have changed any. To be honest I would much rather have seen Maggie and Joe get back together.
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Willie may have pined for Maggie but I wouldn't necessarily call that "love". And she never reciprocated any feelings of love for him. She did seem to care for him more so later then when they first met. ;)
I would say the greatest love on DS was Julia's feelings towards Barnabas, which also was not reciprocated.
I believe that Willie loved Maggie, and I don't think it was just infatuation [spoiler]like Barnabas said one time when he was belittling Willie. I hated it when he said this, and then went on to use Willie's feelings for Maggie to maniuplate him into digging up cadavers for Julia to use in the experiment to create Eve. Willie was totally disgusted by the whole thing, and Barnabas wasn't gonna do it so he had to find a way to get Willie to do it. Willie was even willing to be sent back to Wyndcliff rather than do this (and we know how much he hated Wyndcliff!) but he'd do it for Maggie. I say that's true love. Too bad that she couldn't know what he was willing to do for her sake. It was a lie on Barnabas' part of course since Adam had not threatened Maggie or Willie, he had demanded his mate from Barnabas and didn't care how Barnabas went about fullfilling this demand, only that it was fulfilled. When I saw this episode, I was ticked at Barnabas all over again and this is when I realized that though he had made a lot of changes for the better, he had not changed his attitude toward Willie.[/spoiler]
Alondra
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Does it actually have to be reciprocated in order for it to be love? Idk. No, genuinely, I really don't. lol... But if this was some cutesy infatuation, then why is he continuing to put his life on the line for her? He may have felt guilty for releasing the vampire at first, but he saved her life enough times to at least deserve that "knight in shining armor title". Instead, I think Willie was just sort of pushed aside and treated as the awkward and bumbling stable boy with the dismissable crush on a regal lady.
Granted, I'm not saying he deserved her love a thousand times more than Joe did. This wasn't a competition (despite what Willie might have thought ;D) but I think when you get past the point where you'd actually lay your life on the line for the person you care so deeply about, then that's love.
If it HAS to be reciprocated to be true love that would discount Barnabas' love for Vicki, Julia's love for Barnabas and Willie's love for Maggie, Beth's love for Quentin, and several others I could think of. I think that unreciprocated love can be of the most bittersweet kind.
Willie was Maggie's knight in shining armor, and it's all the sweeter IMO because she hardly ever knew just what he was going through for her protection or if she did know, she couldn't know his motivation.
[spoiler]She never knew that he had to go dig up female cadavers for her sake. She didn't know that the time he was shot outside her house, he was trying to warn her that she was in danger. She later found this out, but at the time she thought he was coming to finish the job that he had supposedly started, killing her just when she was remembering that HE was the kidnapper, not Barnabas. At the time he was framed by Barnabas and Julia (her ring was put in the candlestick in Willie's room for the Sheriff to find) and Willie never found out about this betrayal. And when he kidnapped her and took her to the mausoleum to hide her to protect her from being used as the life force in the experiment to bring Eve to life, she never knew why he was doing something so strange. He couldn't tell her.[/spoiler]
I feel that since she loved Joe she should have ended up with Joe and Willie should have had someone else, not be alone forever. When Joe was out of the picture, Willie should have tried to win her heart then, and he seems to have given up. [spoiler]When she was living at the Old House during the time the family had to vacate Collinwood because of Quentin's ghost, he could have tried then, and later on when she was being victimized by Roxanne, she ends up with Sebastian-come-lately, NOT Willie! Why didn't Willie make a move in her direction after Joe was out of the picture? I don't think I'll ever understand that.[/spoiler]
Alondra
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Willie and Maggie....they're a couple that never was. I would've liked to have seen them together. I would've liked to have seen Willie with one of the main female characters on the show, period. I wouldn't call it the greatest love on the show, I think.....but I do think he loved her. Out of all the people they put Maggie with, I was always like "Why not Willie?". I wanted to see them together after [spoiler]Joe and Maggie broke up, instead of the whole Nicholas fiasco.[/spoiler]
I was writing stories about Willie with your's truly. In all my stories Willie is with Alondra or another Mary Sue character of mine. Then I was challenged by Jackie to write a story in which Willie is with a canon character so I wrote a story with him with Vicki and one with Carolyn. Eventually I may write one with him and Maggie.
I feel that the stupid nit writers (which I will refer to them as when they make some blooper IMNSHO!) thought Willie was unworthy of Maggie so they'd pair her up with someone other than Willie such as [spoiler]Nicholas or Sebastian-come-lately who though he had only just come into the show, gets to win Maggie's hand, and there is poor sweet Willie who has loved her forever out in the cold AGAIN, though he saved her life over and over and even at this time he saved her life by finding her in the mausoleum where Roxanne left her to die. She would have died and risen a vampire if it hadn't been for Willie! But who gets her? Sebastian! This ticks me off! >:( I think it's the writers who think Willie is good for nothing but to be Barn's servant forever as they never bring someone into the show for him to love. Oh yeah he was briefly engaged to the never seen Roxanne (not to be confused with Barnabas' Roxanne) but that bit the dust when he was needed by Barnabas.[/spoiler]
To be fair though, I do feel that any woman who Willie eventually fell in love with, would be taking a back seat to Barnabas who always came first with Willie.
Alondra
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I'm not suggesting Willie didn't love Maggie - I don't really remember that subplot though I could swear that he did propose some kind of relationship and while flattered Maggie turned him down (but I am usually wrong about these things [ie. Vicki slapping N Blair] ::) ) - but all the things he did for Maggie don't necessarliy add up to love. What about empathy? What about sympathy? Willie knows more than anyone what it's like to have your life taken away and to become a slave to someone else. Especially an innocent.
The NYC man who jumped in front of a moving train to save a total stranger a few weeks ago wasn't in love with him.
And didn't Willie pretty much try to save/warn/help everyone who was 'someone' that Barn intended to harm. Maybe a lot of his heroics were intended to show how much of a changed man he became.
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This is just a thought that came to me just now but maybe the writers didn't pair Willie with anyone on the show because JK was coming and going so often in those days. It would be very difficult to write a story around a character that was off and on again so many times. They paired Willie up with "Roxanne" but never developed that into the story. We never see or hear anything about her.
Very well said, Dom. :)
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I'm not suggesting Willie didn't love Maggie - I don't really remember that subplot though I could swear that he did propose some kind of relationship and while flattered Maggie turned him down (but I am usually wrong about these things [ie. Vicki slapping N Blair] ::) ) - but all the things he did for Maggie don't necessarliy add up to love. What about empathy? What about sympathy? Willie knows more than anyone what it's like to have your life taken away and to become a slave to someone else. Especially an innocent.
The NYC man who jumped in front of a moving train to save a total stranger a few weeks ago wasn't in love with him.
And didn't Willie pretty much try to save/warn/help everyone who was 'someone' that Barn intended to harm. Maybe a lot of his heroics were intended to show how much of a changed man he became.
I think you're referring to the time when [spoiler]Willie asked Maggie for a date and she turned him down. What happened was this: Willie put Josette's earrings into Maggie's purse, snuck into the cottage and dropped them in there, and no one ever found out he had done it. Maggie found the earrings and put them on. They did some kind of a number on her and she floated over to the Old House where she had a conversation with Willie, Barnabas being absent at the time. (this actually happened twice). She developed some rather warm feelings for Willie based on the earrings but not actually romance. She was willing to talk to him and be friends with him. Willie pushed his luck just a bit and asked her for a date and she turned him down saying Joe wouldn't like it. (so who invited him?) and explained that she was engaged to Joe. Drat it! She'd just had a fight with him and IIRC, this was when she made that hilarious statement about the babyfood. I sort of hoped she'd accept a date with Willie but alas it wasn't to be. Then there came the time Willie and Joe had a fight outside the cottage when Joe accused him of moving in on Maggie and Willie asked if he couldn't stand a bit of competition. They fought and of course Willie lost (another tirade I could make, Willie always lost his fights!) but Maggie consoled him afterward.[/spoiler]
Yes Willie did try to protect others who Barnabas threatened [spoiler]like Burke and David[/spoiler] but there was something special with Maggie and it did happen over and over throughout the course of the show.
Alondra
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This is just a thought that came to me just now but maybe the writers didn't pair Willie with anyone on the show because JK was coming and going so often in those days. It would be very difficult to write a story around a character that was off and on again so many times. They paired Willie up with "Roxanne" but never developed that into the story. We never see or hear anything about her.
Very well said, Dom. :)
This is a valid point since JK didn't have a contract and came and went as he had other projects he was working on. That would make it difficult for Willie to carry on a relationship. However this didn't seem to be much of a problem when he was playing [spoiler]Desmond and Kendrick later on.[/spoiler]
Alondra
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I feel that the stupid nit writers (which I will refer to them as when they make some blooper IMNSHO!) thought Willie was unworthy of Maggie so they'd pair her up with someone other than Willie
It can certainly be frustrating for fans of certain characters when the writers don't see them in quite the same way as their fans might. However, it's actually the writers who've conceived the characters who know them best and who have designed specific places/purposes for them within the canvases of the stories they're telling. It doesn't make the writers stupid when they don't use a character in a way that his/her fans might like to see. :) How any specific character is interacted is completely within the purview of the writers.
(The only quibble I normally have is when a character has been presented one way within the various stories and then he/she might suddenly behave in a completely different way with no explanation of why/how said character's behavior would have changed. ::))
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My little list was compiled on two things: pining and actual love.
1. Barnabas and Josette
--Barnabas and Josette did ACTUALLY love each other, so there's that. But Barnabas pined for her for over 200 years, wanting to turn every woman he met with dark hair and a fair complextion into Josette.
2. Barnabas and Julia
--Barnabas never loved Julia, but her feelings for him put that matter out of mind because she was constantly following him around trying to get him to fall in love with her.
3. Barnabas and Angelique
--They were actually in love, or maybe lust would be a better term, before he left her for Josette. Then she spent the rest of her years trying to get him to love her by torturing his family in her demented way of winning in over.
4...Willie and Maggie
--While these two might belong above B&A and even B&J, I didn't put them there. The fact is that Willie did seem to have some feelings for Maggie, but we're not sure about whether that would completely blossom into love and marriage or not. Maybe it was just some type of kiddie crush--it's open to interpretation. The fact that she never returned his love put them even with Barnabas and Julia because B never returned Julia's love either. And the way her character was played, it was apparent, to me anyway, that her love was more than a crush. With Willie and Maggie, I guess it wasn't enough time for me to judge, or wasn't developed enough for me to call it complete and utter infatuation and love.
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This is a valid point since JK didn't have a contract and came and went as he had other projects he was working on. That would make it difficult for Willie to carry on a relationship. However this didn't seem to be much of a problem when he was playing [spoiler]Desmond and Kendrick later on.[/spoiler]
When JK played Desmond and Kendrick he was around more for the storylines. I could be wrong about the details but early in his DS 'career', JK had job offers in LA.
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When JK played Desmond and Kendrick he was around more for the storylines. I could be wrong about the details but early in his DS 'career', JK had job offers in LA.
I read somewhere that JK regrets that he left DS for such long periods of time, if he had known that DS would "live again" he'd have stuck with it. But at the time no one knew this, they thought the episodes would be seen one time only, and one job was as good as another. I wish they'd have known this too, since we'd have had more of him. I miss him during his long absences.
Alondra
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I'm not suggesting Willie didn't love Maggie - I don't really remember that subplot though I could swear that he did propose some kind of relationship and while flattered Maggie turned him down (but I am usually wrong about these things [ie. Vicki slapping N Blair] ::) ) - but all the things he did for Maggie don't necessarliy add up to love. What about empathy? What about sympathy? Willie knows more than anyone what it's like to have your life taken away and to become a slave to someone else. Especially an innocent.
The NYC man who jumped in front of a moving train to save a total stranger a few weeks ago wasn't in love with him.
And didn't Willie pretty much try to save/warn/help everyone who was 'someone' that Barn intended to harm. Maybe a lot of his heroics were intended to show how much of a changed man he became.
Trust me, I'd be the first to discount it all, if I spotted any reason to doubt Willie's love for Maggie and that it was indeed merely sympathy he was feeling towards her. Yes, he did help and warn others. Yes, he was the guilty party, since he was the one to have freed Barnabas. But during the scene where he was in the basement, showing Adam all the jewelry (do you remember that scene?), when he revealed the earrings to him, Willie mentioned Maggie and said that she made him feel like he'd never felt before. Adam also mentioned to Nicholas-- later on-- [spoiler]when Willie hid Maggie away in the mausoleum to keep her from being used in the Eve experiment[/spoiler] "Willie's in love with Maggie".
I'm not saying that everyone who's ever "jumped in front of a train" for someone else wants to make mad, passionate love to them. I'm just saying that our poor Willie was duped into loving a pretty girl who never really loved him back. The fact of the matter was that [spoiler]I didn't see him rush to save Carolyn when she was to be used in the Eve experiment. And he even suggested straight out that Vicki be used at that point.[/spoiler]
I'm not even really certain that any one of us can actually say who's love was the greatest on the show, because we all have our own opinions based on our own experiences. Some of us might say Barnabas, because of his powerful and unquenchable desire to get Josette back! Some of us might say Quentin for... whatever reasons. ;) While there are others on this very board who would swear up and down that Julia's love for Barnabas was the greatest. Oh, and I've heard the arguments in favor of Angelique's love for Barnabas,too. :) So, in the end, I guess it's all just a matter of opinion. ~DJ
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The only quibble I normally have is when a character has been presented one way within the various stories and then he/she might suddenly behave in a completely different way with no explanation of why/how said character's behavior would have changed.
Like Nathan Forbes starting out a fairly decent fellow and then turning into a complete jackass! ::)
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Well, not quite. I completely agree with Brandon Collins that there were signs that Nathan wasn't quite as good as he tried to paint himself and his evolution makes sense:
Personally I think Nathan was always out for himself. Being close friends with Barnabas and the Collinses would no doubtedly gain him some clout in the community, and make him a upstanding citizen because of his relationship with the town's most prominent family. But, maybe Nathan realized that his relationship wasn't going to give him all he wanted, so he had to get in farther, and thusly started courting Millicent. He had to eliminate those around him who would pose a threat, and with Vicki's smart mind, she no doubtedly would've seen right through him in no time (provided that she STARTED understanding some stuff). This drive for survivial and the selfishness led to everything that Nathan did. He helped Vicki at Barnabas' request, but saw better opportunity to paint himself in a good light by turning in the town witch and gaining celebrity for catching her. Incriminating part of the Collins family would eliminate the men who would be in his way in trying to woo Millicent, and at the end of it all he'd still have her upstanding name and back accounts.
This is an excellant explanation of WHY Nathan changed, one I hadn't come up with myself even after wracking my brain for years trying to figure it out. ;) It certainly sounds very plausible to me. 8)
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As far as I'm concerned, there is no greater love on DS as the love Willie felt for Maggie.
You may comment...
You're wrong. That's my comment to you, missy. >:D
Nancy
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this might be slightly off-topic but i think it's a testament to many of the actors involved that what could be seen as a totally off-the-wall show can actually be emotionally involving.
i recently watched the episode where julia first discovers barnabas in his coffin.the set-up involves julia eavesdropping outside the old house near sunrise as barnabas sends willie off to portland on some errands and prepares to go "downstairs" for the day.he tells willie that he might as well leave now and get back as soon as possible.
i pictured willie in a beat up old truck driving down the backroads of maine before dawn and thought about what a lonely,narrow existance he must have lead during this time.for some reason i found this imagery to be quite moving.
i also thought it was sweet that willie had this secret crush on maggie,a "working class girl",rather than some of the show's more exalted heroines.
it's too bad that after joel crothers left the show they didn't explore this relationship a bit more.i guess the storyline began to yo-yo back and forth in time and become more plot-driven than character-driven so it wasn't really possible.
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My little list was compiled on two things: pining and actual love.
1. Barnabas and Josette
--Barnabas and Josette did ACTUALLY love each other, so there's that. But Barnabas pined for her for over 200 years, wanting to turn every woman he met with dark hair and a fair complextion into Josette.
I'm so tainted by the '91 series [spoiler]in which Barnabas actually DID cheat with Angelique after getting engaged to Josette[/spoiler] that I can't totally see past that. Understand that that was my first Dark Shadows. :) I think all I can really do is speculate based on various scenes that I've seen btwn '67 Barnabas and Angelique that they may have had something going on while in Colliinsport, but that's all there is to it. I have no hard evidence. ... Unless someone else knows something that I don't know about those two. ;)
2. Barnabas and Julia
--Barnabas never loved Julia, but her feelings for him put that matter out of mind because she was constantly following him around trying to get him to fall in love with her.
I still don't get how this is any different from puppy love. Is it maturity level? To tell you the truth, I thought Julia and Barnabas were amazing companions. They played off one another so well, but I never thought of them as anything but friends.
3. Barnabas and Angelique
--They were actually in love, or maybe lust would be a better term, before he left her for Josette. Then she spent the rest of her years trying to get him to love her by torturing his family in her demented way of winning in over.[/spoiler]
OOOOOOOhhhh hahahhahaha! LOL! Love. That's a good one. ;) No, I think you were right on the money in saying they were in "lust" with one another, rather. Actually, I take that back. Angelique seemed to have loved Barnabas. But I also felt that she wanted Barnabas because Josette had him. Did she truly covet everything her mistress had? Is that why she wanted Barnabas? Again, I haven't seen all of the 1795 storyline, so I really don't know.
4...Willie and Maggie
--While these two might belong above B&A and even B&J, I didn't put them there. The fact is that Willie did seem to have some feelings for Maggie, but we're not sure about whether that would completely blossom into love and marriage or not. Maybe it was just some type of kiddie crush--it's open to interpretation. The fact that she never returned his love put them even with Barnabas and Julia because B never returned Julia's love either. And the way her character was played, it was apparent, to me anyway, that her love was more than a crush. With Willie and Maggie, I guess it wasn't enough time for me to judge, or wasn't developed enough for me to call it complete and utter infatuation and love.
Whether it would blossom into marriage or not is irrelevent, imo. Just because you love a person with all your heart doesn't mean that you're actually going to get to marry them. And yes, you're right. :) Very nicely put. It is open to interpretation. As I was saying before, I gather that we fancy certain couplings based on our own true experiences. :shrug: Or not. I think I like Willie so much because he was the unsung hero. No matter what he did for Maggie, she was never going to find out about it. Or, at least, she wouldn't retain the memories of him having saved her because of all the hypnotizing that was done to her. With Willie around, she was safe. No matter what plans they had for her, he was there to guard her. I think that was awesome. That's not to say that I think she should have loved him back for that sole reason. Love grows in different ways, I think, and someone mirrored my thoughts exactly in saying that they felt that he never quite got past his strong urge to protect her. My theory is that, while at Wyndcliffe, those thoughts persisted. He continued to think of her obsessively. That urge to protect her probably made him feel needed. I think that's what Willie needed the most around that time... to feel needed by someone. He had no where else to turn and no real friends, since Jason had bit the dust. So his thoughts, and then later his heart, clung to Maggie. I think that's sweet. :)
~DJ
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Oh Willie pined for Maggie, he carried a torch for her, but I wouldn't say it was DS's greatest love. I'm not sure just what I would say was DS's greatest love. Maybe it was Quentin's love for himself.
I stand corrected. You're right about Quentin. Lol!
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Well as much as I love Willie I do love to look at Quentin. And how!
Alondra
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I'm so tainted by the '91 series [spoiler]in which Barnabas actually DID cheat with Angelique after getting engaged to Josette[/spoiler] that I can't totally see past that. Understand that that was my first Dark Shadows. :) I think all I can really do is speculate based on various scenes that I've seen btwn '67 Barnabas and Angelique that they may have had something going on while in Colliinsport, but that's all there is to it. I have no hard evidence. ... Unless someone else knows something that I don't know about those two. ;)
I think the scene in the servants' quarters where [spoiler]Angelique says she's willing to be his mistress, the servant to his master, and Barnabas refuses because of Josette[/spoiler] deals directly with whether or not anything happened between them in Collinsport. I believe nothing did. When I viewed the revival series, that scene caught me off guard and I lost some of my sympathy for the '91 Barnabas because of it.
I'm not much of a fan of Barnabas and Julia in the romantic sense, but I wouldn't call Julia's love for him puppy love. She was the one - besides Willie - who saw every aspect of Barnabas's personality - the good and the bad. Her love might have been irrational at times, but I think it was true.
I love how protective of Maggie Willie is, even though he sure wasn't thinking when he [spoiler]takes her to the secret room in the mausoleum and causes her memories to return of Barnabas kidnapping her.[/spoiler]
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I love how protective of Maggie Willie is, even though he sure wasn't thinking when he [spoiler]takes her to the secret room in the mausoleum and causes her memories to return of Barnabas kidnapping her.[/spoiler]
You got that right.[spoiler]But he was just so anxious to protect her that he wasn't thinking clearly. And he didn't have time really to plot this out. He just knew he had to get her away from there right now and he had nowhere else to take her. He tried to get her to leave town, even gave her $50 to get on a train and leave but she wouldn't. I wish he'd taken her anywhere else. He thought it wouldn't be more than a day or so at the most, remember the body would decompose if they didn't do the experiment right away. He thought they'd just find someone else and Maggie would be safe, then he'd release her. Only by then her memory started to return and he had to keep her there because she was fixing to go to the cops. He even came back to the Old House and told Barnabas all this, and Barnabas said to keep her there![/spoiler]
Alondra
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I think the scene in the servants' quarters where [spoiler]Angelique says she's willing to be his mistress, the servant to his master, and Barnabas refuses because of Josette[/spoiler] deals directly with whether or not anything happened between them in Collinsport.
Though there's also the scene later on in which [spoiler]Barn does indeed give in to at least passionate kissing.[/spoiler]At least that's all that we saw - and we can presume that's all that there was - but still, even at that, and even factoring in Barn's confusion at the time, it was leading Ang on. ;)
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[spoiler]They kissed, but then he pushed her away, and if I'm not mistaken, left the room[/spoiler].....what was shown on screen isn't enough of an implication to say they did any more. IMHO.
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[spoiler]They kissed, but then he pushed her away, and if I'm not mistaken, left the room[/spoiler].....what was shown on screen isn't enough of an implication to say they did any more. IMHO.
I tend to agree BB, if we didn't see it onscreen, it didn't happen. ;D
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Though there's also the scene later on in which [spoiler]Barn does indeed give in to at least passionate kissing.[/spoiler]At least that's all that we saw - and we can presume that's all that there was - but still, even at that, and even factoring in Barn's confusion at the time, it was leading Ang on. ;)
[spoiler]They kissed, but then he pushed her away, and if I'm not mistaken, left the room[/spoiler].....what was shown on screen isn't enough of an implication to say they did any more. IMHO.
Barnabas'Bride, I don't understand your rebuttal, because it seems MB said the same thing in his response to you (quoted above). And yes, I can see where a man's passionate kiss like the one we saw him share with Angelique might encourage a hopeful woman, especially when it's followed by this exchange:
ANGELIQUE: You didn't lose control of yourself. You let me do what you wanted me to do.
BARNABAS: Very well then, perhaps you're right. So in the future it will be best if we don't see each other alone. Anywhere.
There's nothing implied here-- he admits to finding it difficult to resist her.
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Angelique had an effect on EVERY man she set her eyes on. It was like magic. Once she kissed them, they always wanted more. A magic kiss? :D
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I meant that it didn't imply that they did anything beyond that (the kiss), off screen. There's nothing in that segment of the show that I can recall to suggest their fling continued at the Old House while waiting for Josette to arrive or after Josette was there.
Admitting he finds it difficult to resist her and being unable to actually resist her are different things. As far as it is implied - beyond that kiss - Barnabas DID resist her. He could've taken her right there after the kiss. He could've had her as his mistress. He could've fooled around with her even once Josette arrived. But he didn't, and I don't recall there being any scenes making that implication. That's what I meant.
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I meant that it didn't imply that they did anything beyond that (the kiss), off screen. There's nothing in that segment of the show that I can recall to suggest their fling continued at the Old House while waiting for Josette to arrive or after Josette was there.
Me neither. But isn't that the same thing he said when he wrote, "At least that's all we saw - and we can presume that's all there was..."?
Admitting he finds it difficult to resist her and being unable to actually resist her are different things. As far as it is implied - beyond that kiss - Barnabas DID resist her. He could've given into her right there in the servants' quarters. He could've had her as a mistress. He could've fooled around with her even once Josette arrived. But he didn't, and I don't recall there being any scenes making that implication. Only that he loved Josette and wanted to be true to her.
Oh I agree. I was also agreeing with MB that Barnabas made some mistakes in those early meetings in the Old House. When a woman flees from you, hissing, "You will see!" you have not diffused the situation.
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Angelique had an effect on EVERY man she set her eyes on. It was like magic. Once she kissed them, they always wanted more. A magic kiss? :D
Does that also include the Vampire Kiss [huhg]