DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
Members' Mausoleum => Calendar Events / Announcements Archive => Calendar Events / Announcements '24 I => Calendar Events / Announcements '07 I => Topic started by: BuzzH on January 24, 2007, 02:48:51 PM
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ShadowGram Online Dark Shadows News Updates List
Marcy Robin's Cyberspace "Dark Shadows" News Update List
An Internet Publication of SHADOWGRAM
The Official Dark Shadows Published Newsletter & News Source
< ShadowGram@aol.com >
Number 164. January 23, 2007.
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Hello, Dark Shadows Fan,
ShadowGram (SG), The Official Newsletter & News Source for Dark Shadows (DS), announces the following breaking news.
More details, photos, media coverage, and other materials will be in the actual published ShadowGram print issues, including the upcoming SG #109.
*** PRE-BARNABAS EPISODES - NOW AVAILABLE ONLY TO DS DVD CLUB MEMBERS
MPI asks SG to announce the release of the first of 6 DVD sets featuring DS' earliest episodes. They will be issued throughout 2007.
This exclusive offer is only for Club members; the DVDs are not available to retail outlets. Collection 1 is being shipped now directly from MPI.
"Bonuses on DS Beginning DVD 1: A new Alexandra Moltke introduction to the series, plus interviews with Alexandra, an original 1966 ABC DS promo, and Episode #1 with original commercials playback option.
"The DS: The Beginning DVD Collection will be comprised of 6 total Collections ($54.98 each). A new set is made available every other month, starting in January, 2007. They will solely be available to DVD Club members at that time as part of their normal membership installments."
For information or to join the DVD Club, please contact MPI directly: www.darkshadowsdvd.com or call 1-800-323-0442 weekdays.
*** NEW DS AUDIO DRAMAS NOW AVAILABLE
"Big Finish Productions have just released two new DS audio dramas, The Christmas Presence and The Rage Beneath, concluding their first season of stories starring David Selby, Kathryn Leigh Scott, Lara Parker and John Karlen. "The Christmas Presence features a winter's tale at Collinwood, as a curious spirit infiltrates the ranks of the house. The Rage Beneath brings the series to a close, with a deadly spirit rising from the ocean on a vengeful mission. Robert Rodan guest stars in the story, which also features a cameo from Marie Wallace. "Both CDs retail for $15.00 each and can be ordered for $17.50 postpaid from www.darkshadowsreborn.com, which stocks the complete range of DS audio dramas.
--- Debut Announcement
"Big Finish are pleased to announce that DS will return for a second season of audio dramas later in 2007. There will also be a CD documentary release in March titled 'Dark Shadows: The Legend Reborn.' "'The Legend Reborn' is an in-depth behind the scenes documentary, presented by Kathryn Leigh Scott, featuring interviews with the cast and creative team behind the new audio dramas. The release will also include a free bonus CD album of Joseph Fox's incidental music score from the series, including previous unheard material. "The 2-disc set will retail at $15.00 and will be available for pre-order from www.darkshadowsreborn.com later this week."
*** UNIQUE DS COLLECTIBLES STILL AVAILABLE
The DS Fan Club/Festival still has original DS kinescope negatives (one copy per each actual episode); the 2007 DS Calendar; the newly-published "DS: The First Year" book; and autographed copies of "Produced & Directed by Dan Curtis" - the career biography of the late DS creator/producer/director. All these items are available from www.darkshadowsfestival.com
*** SPECIAL REQUEST
It has recently been discovered that Jonathan Frid (Barnabas) made a guest appearance on actress-singer Della Reese (Touched by An Angel) television talk show, simply titled "Della," which aired from 1969-70. Jonathan, in fact, appeared on the very first show, telecast on Fri., June 6, 1969. This was during the height of DS' popularity. Interestingly, another guest on the show was Vincent Price.
Unfortunately, neither Ms. Reese nor the distributor retained copies of the show. Should someone have an audiotape recording of Jonathan's appearance, please notify ShadowGram via e- or postal- mail at: ShadowGram@aol.com or P.O. Box 1766, Temple City, CA 91780-7766. This is needed for an official DS project.
*** BETSY DURKIN MATTHES - NEW BOOK SIGNINGS PLANNED
Betsy asks SG to announce 2 upcoming appearances for her fashion guide, "Dressing The Man You Love." Fans attending either event are invited to send their reports, pictures, local publicity, and other material to SG's e- or postal- mail addresses.
"On Feb. 8 from 5-8PM (or 6-9 PM (please check exact time closer to the event), a book signing in honor of Valentine's Day will be held at Coffman's Mens Wear, 505 Red Banks Rd., Greenville, N. Carolina 27858. Telephone: 252-756-8237.
"On Feb. 9 from 10AM -2PM, a book signing in honor of Valentine's Day will be held at Borders Books in the Raleigh Durham National Airport, 1600 Terminal Blvd. - 2nd Floor, Raleigh, N. Carolina 27623. Telephone: 919-840-1155.
"Betsy hopes that all DS fans in the area will come to one of these two events and have their picture taken with her." In 1968, Betsy played "Victoria Winters," 2nd Casting.
*** ROGER DAVIS APPEARANCE
SG is told he plans to attend the Hollywood Collectors Show on Feb. 16-17 at the Burbank Airport Marriott Hotel (formerly the Burbank Airport Hilton Hotel). There is an admission fee to the show and "all of our celebrity guests will charge a fee for their autographs." Website: www.hollywoodcollectorshow.com Roger played Jeff Clark and other roles on DS.
*** ALEXANDRA MOLTKE ISLES - NEW DOCUMENTARY RELEASE
Alexandra portrayed "Victoria Winters" from Episode #1 until 1968, when she left DS because she was pregnant with her son. She has become an accomplished director of documentary films.
Her 4th and newest movie opens up the hidden worlds of small, local gardens tucked away in many corners around Manhattan. "The Healing Gardens of New York City" shows the green places and those who develop, encourage, nurture, and love them in the midst of urban life.
The film is available on dvd for $295 or to rent for $85. Contact The Cinema Guild, 130 Madison Ave., Second Floor, NYC, NY 10016 . 800-723-5522. http://cinemaguild.com/catalog/catalog.htm?http%3A//cinemaguild.com/mm5/merchant.mvc%3FScreen%3DPROD%26Store_Code%3DTCGS%26Product_Code%3D2224
More information about "Gardens" will be in the upcoming SG #109 print issue.
*** SPECIAL NOTICES:
# 1 - SG is The Official DS Newsletter & News Source and its actual SG print issues have been published for almost 28 years (since April, 1979). The next issue, SG #109, will be ready soon for all current postal-mail subscribers.
That SG #109 spotlights details, exclusive and behind-the-scenes pictures, media coverage, and more for the DS Fest's 40th Anniversary Celebration, the DS Halloween Party, all the above and recent news, and more.
Over recent months, I've had a greater work load at my job that requires me to spend more hours there every day. I've also had some health matters and other real life things that are taking much of my time and attention. I'm always kept fully informed about DS news and announce key time-sensitive "bulletins" on this Updates List. These e-mail posts are fully explained and expanded in the published postal-mail issues. I appreciate all the understanding and support I have from SG subscribers and DS fans worldwide.
# 2 - SG is a co-founder of the DS Festival conventions and I continue to be very involved in each event. Details for the 2007 Fest event are not yet finalized. SG and the Fest ask fans to please be patient until SG makes the official announcements / updates regarding confirmed plans.
*** FAN SHARING: Fans attending Betsy's and Roger's appearances are encouraged to please share their photos and reports. Also please send any references for DS, its cast/crew, products, etc., whenever and wherever you find them. These materials are included in the SG published newsletters for SG readers worldwide - including the DS cast/crew members themselves. I send complimentary copies of every SG print issue directly to the DS personnel.
You will be named as a Contributor in the published SG issue. Major input brings you a Contributor's Copy in thanks. Please send jpeg photos to SG's e-mail address or send hard-copy photos to SG's postal-mail address. Both addresses follow below.
This SG Online DS News Updates List will update all the news in this post. The upcoming SG #109 print issue will have the latest complete detailed developments, photos, reports, and additional information.
Thank you.
Marcy Robin
ShadowGram Editor / Publisher
Marcy Robin
P.O. Box 1766
Temple City, CA 91780-7766
E-mail: ShadowGram@aol.com
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SHADOWGRAM (SG) is the * Official * "Dark Shadows" Newsletter. Much of its news is provided by the show's personnel and those involved in the 1966-71 TV series, 1991 TV series, and 2004 WB pilot. Established in 1979, SG works directly with individuals, companies, and others involved in DS' creation, distribution, promotion, merchandise, etc.
Regular SG print issues are published throughout the year, with free bonus complimentary breaking-news published updates as needed.
Brief Update bulletins are posted on this ShadowGram Online "Dark Shadows" News Updates List / Marcy Robin's ShadowGram "Dark Shadows" Cyberspace News Updates List. These posts are sent via e-mail between regularly-published issues to quickly notify fans of time-sensitive developments. Each e-mail Update is expanded and detailed in the subscription postal-mail print issues. You also can receive this identical SG Online Update by joining the ShadowGram Group at yahoogroups
SG postal-mail print issues are immediately available:
--- US & Canadian First Class subscriptions: $12.00 for 4 issues, $24.00 for 8 issues.
---Overseas Air Mail subscriptions: US $20.00 for 4 issues, US $40.00 for 8 issues.
Please send print issue subscription payment to:
Marcy Robin, P.O. Box 1766, Temple City, CA 91780-7766.
Online subscription payment can be made via Paypal to: ShadowGram@aol.com
For more information on the newsletter, please write with a SASE (Self-Addressed Stamped Envelope) to the above postal-address or e-mail ShadowGram@aol.com
Whenever your e-mail address changes, please notify me immediately. Please include your old and new e-mail addresses. If you do not wish to remain on the Online "ShadowGram / Marcy Robin's Cyberspace Dark Shadows News Update List," please notify me directly via return e-mail. Thank you.
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# 2 - SG is a co-founder of the DS Festival conventions and I continue to be very involved in each event. Details for the 2007 Fest event are not yet finalized. SG and the Fest ask fans to please be patient until SG makes the official announcements / updates regarding confirmed plans.
I had really hoped we would have some Festival news by the time the new SG announcement came out. One's patience can realistically extend for only so long. I have several friends who are very anxious about getting details for the 2007 event because they must submit their vacation time requests now, not 5 months from now or whenever SG expects to finally release details. If a number of regular attendees can't get the time off to go to the Fest, then attendance will suffer, creating the problem of low profitability alluded to in other threads and a vicious cycle will ensue. I don't know which "details" have not yet been finalized but would it be too much to ask for just a general idea of when/where the Fest will probably be (e.g. are they finalizing an East or West Coast event? Is the event more likely to be in August or July?)? I don't think anyone expects a guest list and schedule yet, but the basics would be good to know.
ProfStokes
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Does anyone know when they will come available to non club members?? That is the earlier sets?
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I had really hoped we would have some Festival news by the time the new SG announcement came out. One's patience can realistically extend for only so long. I have several friends who are very anxious about getting details for the 2007 event because they must submit their vacation time requests now, not 5 months from now or whenever SG expects to finally release details. If a number of regular attendees can't get the time off to go to the Fest, then attendance will suffer, creating the problem of low profitability alluded to in other threads and a vicious cycle will ensue. I don't know which "details" have not yet been finalized but would it be too much to ask for just a general idea of when/where the Fest will probably be (e.g. are they finalizing an East or West Coast event? Is the event more likely to be in August or July?)? I don't think anyone expects a guest list and schedule yet, but the basics would be good to know.
TOTALLY agree! I'd like to know 1) which coast and 2) which month. Your post is very articulate, to the point and not bitchy. Perhaps you should forward to Pierson. ;)
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Does anyone know when they will come available to non club members?? That is the earlier sets?
We don't know. Barring any delays, it will take a full year for the entire DSTB series to come out (and for the complete series to be available on DVD, yay!), but you probably knew that. ;)
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I, too, eagerly read through ShadowGram for any hint of 2007's festival and was very disappointed. You're right, ProfStokes. If they don't announce SOMETHING soon, attendance will certainly suffer and set up a lose-lose scenario. I know I've been checking periodically on the official festival site as well, and nothing. It's quite frustrating.
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I know I've been checking periodically on the official festival site as well, and nothing. It's quite frustrating.
You'll find out from SG before you'll find out from that website, that thing is a virtual cobweb. ::)
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I'm REALLY GLAD I taped Alexandra's new film when it aired on Link TV.
It's quite a lovely piece, but $295 is a bit steep for a 57 minute disc!!!!!!!
I also greatly liked her 2nd film, the deeply moving Scandalize My Name.
David
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ITA Buzz! That fest site is rarely updated, and when it is it's only updated far after we've already heard the news.
And I'd like the basic details too. I want to know if it's going to be on the East coast and when it will be so that I can ask for time off as well, and start planning the trip.
$295 for Alexandra's new documentary? FOR ONE DVD?!!! ARE YOU KIDDING?!!!! It's a wonder that she sells any at all.
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It's quite a lovely piece, but $295 is a bit steep for a 57 minute disc!!!!!!!
$295??!! That's ridiculous! ::)
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I got Scandalize My Name for ten bucks at Borders!
What's up with her new one?
David
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I recall booking my reservation for Brooklyn the day I found out when and where the Fest was scheduled. And I'm CERTAIN it wasn't as early as January. I don't have paperwork that would tell me for sure, but I'm thinking it was no earlier than March.
I think it just SEEMS like forever..... ;)
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Perhaps Moltke makes her work available first for charitable proceeds, and afterwards, to the public for a more reasonable price. She travels in a social circle that makes a life's work of helping one another's charitable efforts.
On the other hand, let's not forget that New York City is one of the most expensive places on earth to make films. If she's producing these efforts herself, she's paying the earth.
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It's quite a lovely piece, but $295 is a bit steep for a 57 minute disc!!!!!!!
That's what most videos and dvd documentaries cost for institutions or for broadcast rights. There's usually not a huge market for individuals for these things--HBO and PBS documentaries aside. In a few months you might see if your respective public or academic libraries have a copy you can borrow.
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I recall booking my reservation for Brooklyn the day I found out when and where the Fest was scheduled. And I'm CERTAIN it wasn't as early as January. I don't have paperwork that would tell me for sure, but I'm thinking it was no earlier than March.
I think it just SEEMS like forever..... ;)
I no longer have the paperwork for my reservation, but I believe I made my reservation in late December.
But even if it took that long for the room rate info. to become available, the dates and location for the 2006 Festival were listed in the program for the 2005 Fest. That means for five months, people knew when and where the Fest would be even before they were able to make reservations. The dates and location for the 2005 Fest were announced in October, 2004 and the location of the 2004 Fest was announced at the 2003 banquet.
I don't expect the Festival to provide every detail now as to who will be the guests, what the activities will be, and how much admission and rooms will cost but I think it would be courteous at the very least to let potential attendees know when and where the blessed thing is going to be. If the specifics have not been "firmed up" at least give us a ballpark estimate. For example: "The Festival will be held at the Anaheim Marriott during either the last weekend of June or the third weekend in July." or "We have tentatively scheduled an event for Labor Day weekend and are in the process of confirming a location in the New York City area." At least then people would have an idea of when to put in for time off and whether or not to put aside money for airfare. As long as I've been attending Fests (since 2000) the bare basics have never been this late in coming.
ProfStokes
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Anyone notice the cat's out of the bag about the surprise cameo in the DS audio dramas?.... It's in the audio dramas news section in SG. Very cool news!
- Penny
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I recall booking my reservation for Brooklyn the day I found out when and where the Fest was scheduled. And I'm CERTAIN it wasn't as early as January. I don't have paperwork that would tell me for sure, but I'm thinking it was no earlier than March.
I think it just SEEMS like forever..... ;)
I no longer have the paperwork for my reservation, but I believe I made my reservation in late December.
Well, the bad news to me is, when I did go on the official festival site today, under "Current News," it was worded something like this: "Plans are in the works for another fun DS event this year but aren't finalized. It will be announced soon."
Another "fun DS event?" That, to me, does not sound like a typical festival, and yes, it is late! Last year, I'd already made my hotel reservations by this point.
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Another "fun DS event?" That, to me, does not sound like a typical festival
Are they usually not fun for you? ;D
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[6283]
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I no longer have the paperwork for my reservation, but I believe I made my reservation in late December.
But even if it took that long for the room rate info. to become available, the dates and location for the 2006 Festival were listed in the program for the 2005 Fest. That means for five months, people knew when and where the Fest would be even before they were able to make reservations. The dates and location for the 2005 Fest were announced in October, 2004 and the location of the 2004 Fest was announced at the 2003 banquet.
My hotel reservations were made LONG before this date last year as well, but then we knew it was going to be in NYC when it was, unlike this year. I agree that just knowing when and where isn't too much to ask, what's the hold-up w/that info anyway? [hdscrt] I don't know, maybe Jim's trying to pin down the best time for KLS to attend! LOL! ;D
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Another "fun DS event?" That, to me, does not sound like a typical festival
Are they usually not fun for you? ;D
Of course, they're fun for me. What raised my suspicion was the wording. It didn't actually say "festival." My fear is, it could just be a one-day event, such as was held for Halloween. In that case, I doubt seriously many people would fly to wherever it is just for one day.
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Of course, they're fun for me. What raised my suspicion was the wording. It didn't actually say "festival."
Well, TECHNICALLY, they haven't had a FESTIVAL since 2003. After that they started calling them WEEKENDS, even though they ARE Festivals still. ;) I wouldn't put too much stock in how it's worded on the site, I'm SURE it will be a 3 day 'event', as in, a 3 day Festival/Weekend.
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Well, TECHNICALLY, they haven't had a FESTIVAL since 2003. After that they started calling them WEEKENDS, even though they ARE Festivals still. ;) I wouldn't put too much stock in how it's worded on the site, I'm SURE it will be a 3 day 'event', as in, a 3 day Festival/Weekend.
I hope so, Buzz. I so look forward to them every year. I love catching up with friends I've met and meeting new ones. Of course, I enjoy all the events, as well, particularly the banquet and doing skits with the Collinsport Players. I've done two of them now, and it's just such a blast! They are so much fun!
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By "fun event" I assume--- perhaps mistakenly, perhaps, I hope, not--- that they mean a one-day gig like last autumn. So if that's the case, and it's in CA, I certainly won't be booking a flight and a room for one day, nor, one supposes will a lot of people.
And they're not likely to fly out a clutch of actors for a one-day affair in NY or central-USA location (if they ever actually considered it.) As it was, I read that a couple of the announced actors didn't attend in October as it was I wouldn't expect many west-coast fans to attend a "brief encounter" over here, either.
So referring to a "fun event"instead of at least a "weekend" might be cause for a minor degree of apprehension amongst some of us. Here's hoping something more substantial comes our way.
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A one day event or in the Halloween event an evening would not be enough to fly me out to either coast. I think both areas have enough fans to support a small day or evening gathering. As long as the key players show up (KLS,Selby,Lara etc) that would be ok with most fans who are going for something small. As far as anyone making sales from books,videos etc that would be a loss. With Kathryn's business savy I'm surprised she could have her company organize an event.
I like everyone else cannot sit for months and then in a few months notice try and get good airfare and hope no one else at work has requested time off.
PS- I checked my receipts and saw last year I made my reservation in March. I had procrastinated and was worried the hotel would be booked. It almost was when we made the reservations at that time.
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last summer i went to a new york screening of "the healing gardens" with alexandra isles in attendance.
i remember distictly that the home video version of this film was available for $29.95.i posted ordering information about it at the time.i'm very surprised to see it being sold on dvd for $295.00.that's pretty outrageous.
here's a "charitable" idea.if ms.isles wants to sell a signifigant number of these dvds she could of course attend next years fest(if there is one),price them fairly,offer to autograph a purchased copy(you know i'd be first in line)and donate the proceeds to her charitable works. ;)
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last summer i went to a new york screening of "the healing gardens" with alexandra isles in attendance.
i remember distictly that the home video version of this film was available for $29.95.i posted ordering information about it at the time.i'm very surprised to see it being sold on dvd for $295.00.that's pretty outrageous.
here's a "charitable" idea.if ms.isles wants to sell a signifigant number of these dvds she could of course attend next years fest(if there is one),price them fairly,offer to autograph a purchased copy(you know i'd be first in line)and donate the proceeds to her charitable works. ;)
I completely agree! $295 for a DVD? Please! But, if she did go to a festival, she certainly could do well. Fans would line up (I'd be right behind you, mscbryk!). Too, it would promote some good will toward her. She's snubbed the fans for too long, and I feel resentment from some.
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RE: her snubbing of fans:
I know of one fan who went to a screening of her second film with more than 25 (!!!!) items for her to sign.
I know of several others who, by their own admission, can't wait to ask her about the Von Bulow affair, a subject NO ONE WHO CARES ABOUT HER WOULD BROACH!!!!!
Here's a personal story:
in 1982 Alexandra was still in the NYC phonebook.
I wrote her & asked if it was OK for me to leave ONE ITEM ONLY with her building doorman for her to sign.
She wrote back & said yes.
I was living in NYC at the time.
I left the first Marilyn Ross paperback with the doorman.
Returning the next day, the doorman gave me the book, which she personally inscribed "to David" & wrote a short thank you!
I still have this, 25 years later!
You get what you give, folks!
Give a little love & it all comes back to you!
David
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since alexandra penned the foreward to "dark shadows memories",attended the 2001 museum of television and radio tribute to dark shadows and is narrating the newly released first year dvds i don't think she's really "snubbed" the fans either.
but something about the live nature of the fests seems to scare her off.i find it extremely distressing that the claus von bulow business is still on people's minds and that is one of the reasons she never comes.it's the fans that are really missing out on that one. :(
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Yes, I heard similar stories, David. AM signs autographs (or used to) for people who sent photos to her. From all accounts, she was quite friendly at the television museum/honor event (forget what it was called) when DS and Dan Curtis were honored. She's not comfortable with large crowds I've been told.
Nancy
Here's a personal story:
in 1982 Alexandra was still in the NYC phonebook.
I wrote her & asked if it was OK for me to leave ONE ITEM ONLY with her building doorman for her to sign.
She wrote back & said yes.
I was living in NYC at the time.
I left the first Marilyn Ross paperback with the doorman.
Returning the next day, the doorman gave me the book, which she personally inscribed "to David" & wrote a short thank you!
I still have this, 25 years later!
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since alexandra penned the foreward to "dark shadows memories",attended the 2001 museum of television and radio tribute to dark shadows and is narrating the newly released first year dvds i don't think she's really "snubbed" the fans either.
but something about the live nature of the fests seems to scare her off.i find it extremely distressing that the claus von bulow business is still on people's minds and that is one of the reasons she never comes.it's the fans that are really missing out on that one. :(
There would always be that one person at a fest that would bring something of that nature up. Sometimes I am amazed at the poor manners people use at these fest. I've volunteered and just watched on several occasions. People in the lines willl go on forever and ask really strange questions. I've heard people comment directly to the person about weight gain, drinking, and within ear shot say something rude. Plus if you do dislike large crowds I can imagine. Maybe if the next event is much smaller and she may consider attending. That would be wonderful.
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Sometimes I am amazed at the poor manners people use at these fest. I've volunteered and just watched on several occasions. People in the lines willl go on forever and ask really strange questions. I've heard people comment directly to the person about weight gain, drinking, and within ear shot say something rude.
I've witnessed some of the rudeness at the 2003 convention in Brooklyn, the only one I've ever attended. I and some friends were there just for a few hours on Saturday. I got in the line to meet The Lovely and Talented Kathryn Leigh Scott, and when it was finally my turn, I didn't want to take up her time. I simply told her about how much I appreciated all the joy she brought to me, and ask her to quickly autograph two things (my program, and the box containing Josette's Music Box which I had purchased), and for a photograph. She was so obliging. But while I was trying to rapidly "do my schtick" and move on, the guy next to me kept interrupting, adding his own two cents, not wanting to wait his turn. Not only was I becoming perturbed, but I could tell Miss Scott was uncomfortable. Finally I turned to him and sternly asked him to be quiet. He quickly hushed up, and I saw Miss Scott give a sigh of relief.
Gerard
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;)
I won't go into it now, but in the past I've posted about problems & bad behavior in fandom.
But we'll always have this board~~a safe space where these things can be discussed openly, honestly, & with mutual respect.
Thanks, mods.
David
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RE: her snubbing of fans:
I know of one fan who went to a screening of her second film with more than 25 (!!!!) items for her to sign.
I know of several others who, by their own admission, can't wait to ask her about the Von Bulow affair, a subject NO ONE WHO CARES ABOUT HER WOULD BROACH!!!!!
I'm sure she's gracious and lovely, and it's a shame about the Von Bulow thing, since fans are rude enough to ask her about it when they do see her. However, the reason I mentioned resentment was because of things I overheard at the last festival. Fans were angry that she didn't come to the 40th anniversary. They showed that anger by very warmly embracing Betsy Durkin, who only played Vicki for a very short time. Of course, she's a lovely lady in her own right, but it was telling to me that she got such a reception.
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I'm sure she's gracious and lovely, and it's a shame about the Von Bulow thing, since fans are rude enough to ask her about it when they do see her. However, the reason I mentioned resentment was because of things I overheard at the last festival. Fans were angry that she didn't come to the 40th anniversary. They showed that anger by very warmly embracing Betsy Durkin, who only played Vicki for a very short time. Of course, she's a lovely lady in her own right, but it was telling to me that she got such a reception.
I have to disagree completely here. While I have no doubt that ppl were disappointed, maybe even actually angry, that Alexandra (and for that matter David Henesy, Kate Jackson etc...) didn't attend the 40th, I don't think disappointment or anger at Alexandra was the reason Betsy was so warmly greeted. Betsy was, to use a James Lipton quote, a delight! She was very warm, gracious, friendly, inviting etc...to all fans, even the ones who didn't buy her book (like me). This is the reaon she was so warmly greeted, because she was so warm to us! Alexandra's absence had nothing to do w/it and to suggest such is actually a little insulting to Ms. Durkin. ;)
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I don't get fans who would be "angry" over an actor not coming to a festival or the anniversary. These people have no idea what is going on in the private lives of any of these actors and other reasons that actor may not wish to be in the spotlight for even a weekend or a day. These actors have real lives outside of work or their legacy on a show that goes on no matter what. I know that Alexandra Moltke had a terrible time at one point, when it became known where she worked, fans just showing up not only at her work place but looking for her in the "break" room. Perhaps that figures into her not wanting to be any more public than she already is. Maybe she has other obligations, who knows? But to actually be "angry" or resentful over it is beyond anything I understand.
nancy
I'm sure she's gracious and lovely, and it's a shame about the Von Bulow thing, since fans are rude enough to ask her about it when they do see her. However, the reason I mentioned resentment was because of things I overheard at the last festival. Fans were angry that she didn't come to the 40th anniversary. They showed that anger by very warmly embracing Betsy Durkin, who only played Vicki for a very short time. Of course, she's a lovely lady in her own right, but it was telling to me that she got such a reception.
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It has recently been discovered that Jonathan Frid (Barnabas) made a guest appearance on actress-singer Della Reese (Touched by An Angel) television talk show, simply titled "Della," which aired from 1969-70. Jonathan, in fact, appeared on the very first show, telecast on Fri., June 6, 1969. This was during the height of DS' popularity. Interestingly, another guest on the show was Vincent Price.
Unfortunately, neither Ms. Reese nor the distributor retained copies of the show.
Oh man! Jonathan Frid AND Vincent Price? Come on! Talk about dream come true! The only way it could be better is if Christopher Lee was there as well. Alas! I hope they find it because I would love to hear it.
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I totally understand AMI not being comfortable with large crowds. Sometimes people can be quite overbearing. Not to mention the fact that I rather see her like Jonathan Frid:
Would I like to see them at a fest? Who wouldn't?! But the fact that they haven't come for some time would only make their lines longer and their time there more grating and slow: Imagine the lines of people who would want autographs, pictures, to ask questions, share personal stories, etc etc. The lines with LP were bad last year, and these lines would be 10 times as horrible, I'm sure.
It doesn't mean they're snubbing the fans, but the fact of the matter is that if they DID attend, it'd be a madhouse to get to them. There's no telling what fans would do to get a minute alone--follow them to their room, interrupt their meals, follow them into the restroom, etc etc.
If it were me, I'd be hesitant to attend as well.
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It is one thing to be an actress on a show and get fan mail and attention on the street. It's quite another to be an actor attending a festival where you are yourself. No character to hide behind. It's all about you. Some actors are not comfortable with that scenario. Humbert Allen Astredo, to take one example, hated the one festival he attended and would rather not take a curtain call if he can avoid it in his stage work. He isn't the type who would do well at a festival. Maybe AM isn't either. For anyone to be "angry" at her for not being a natural is in that kind of atmosphere is like faulting someone for not being a whiz at math. You either are that or you are not.
Nancy
I totally understand AMI not being comfortable with large crowds. Sometimes people can be quite overbearing. Not to mention the fact that I rather see her like Jonathan Frid:
it were me, I'd be hesitant to attend as well.
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i thought alexandra isles was supposed to be this grand lady.her documentary films reek of noblesse oblige.
when did she ever have a job with a "break room"?
that is so "nine-to-five".i just can't picture her on the frozen-yogurt-diet-snapple-iced-tea-circuit. :P
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Well I hope even studios have break rooms to relax between takes. :D
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She worked at the Museum of Broadcasting for a few years. Most work places have a "break room."
Nancy
i thought alexandra isles was supposed to be this grand lady.her documentary films reek of noblesse oblige.
when did she ever have a job with a "break room"?
that is so "nine-to-five".i just can't picture her on the frozen-yogurt-diet-snapple-iced-tea-circuit. :P
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She worked at the Museum of Broadcasting for a few years. Most work places have a "break room."
Getting a little off topic, but I always find this amusing. Our grad student lounge is named in honor of a gentleman whose last name was Work, which makes it the Work Room; however, the Work Room is actually more of a break room. Confused yet? ;)
People's perceptions of Alexandra Moltke are interesting. Last time I checked, you don't need to be a blue blood to produce a documentary. Michael Moore and Morgan Spurlock, just to name a couple of documentary filmmakers, weren't exactly to the manor born.
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Yes, they have been interesting. A friend if mine interned at Doubleday in New York and worked in the same department as Jackie Kennedy Onassis. Mrs. Onassis eat her sandwiches while seated on the floor while going through manuscripts. So did the intern who really loved Mrs. O.'s sandwiches, by the way. Yeppers, Mrs. O' brownbagged her lunch most days.
Nancy
People's perceptions of Alexandra Moltke are interesting. Last time I checked, you don't need to be a blue blood to produce a documentary. Michael Moore and Morgan Spurlock, just to name a couple of documentary filmmakers, weren't exactly to the manor born.
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There's no telling what fans would do to get a minute alone--follow them to their room, interrupt their meals, follow them into the restroom, etc etc.
This is so true! I remember one of the LA Fests where Karlenfan and I had gone to lunch w/Louie Edmonds, after he'd become frail because of the cancer and could only do short appearances onstage and at the Fest in general. We had to keep ppl from coming up to his table, WHILE HE WAS TRYING TO EAT, and bugging him for autographs etc...Later, when we escorted him back to his room so he could take a nap, we had ppl following us for the same reasons and we had to run interferance there as well. This also occured at a NY Fest the following year when we took him down to the lobby of the Marriot Marquis at the end of a very long, tiring day for him to put him in a taxi to go home for the night. It took us like 20 minutes! It was ridiculous. ::)
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i thought alexandra isles was supposed to be this grand lady.her documentary films reek of noblesse oblige. when did she ever have a job with a "break room"?that is so "nine-to-five".i just can't picture her on the frozen-yogurt-diet-snapple-iced-tea-circuit. :P
LOL! For real! I can't picture her sitting down in a breakroom w/a cup of coffee and a ciggie watching whatever STORY is on da tube w/her co-workers, LOL! ;)
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I don't get fans who would be "angry" over an actor not coming to a festival or the anniversary. These people have no idea what is going on in the private lives of any of these actors and other reasons that actor may not wish to be in the spotlight for even a weekend or a day. These actors have real lives outside of work or their legacy on a show that goes on no matter what. I know that Alexandra Moltke had a terrible time at one point, when it became known where she worked, fans just showing up not only at her work place but looking for her in the "break" room. Perhaps that figures into her not wanting to be any more public than she already is. Maybe she has other obligations, who knows? But to actually be "angry" or resentful over it is beyond anything I understand.
Well, I certainly didn't say it was justified. It was just something I picked up on at the last festival. It is COMPLETELY unrealistic for fans to expect every single actor to show up for these events. Then again, there are those poor fans who just can't get a grip. I remember in L.A. two years ago, this one woman actually went into hysterics because James Storm cancelled! I mean, seriously -- she threw herself on the floor and screamed like a 3-year-old. Not very attractive in a 50-ish woman!
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Well, I certainly didn't say it was justified. It was just something I picked up on at the last festival. It is COMPLETELY unrealistic for fans to expect every single actor to show up for these events. Then again, there are those poor fans who just can't get a grip. I remember in L.A. two years ago, this one woman actually went into hysterics because James Storm cancelled! I mean, seriously -- she threw herself on the floor and screamed like a 3-year-old. Not very attractive in a 50-ish woman!
Maybe she just spend her last dime to go to the fest to see James Storm and that's what she was upset about. [NO it wasn't ME] Just guessing why a middle age woman would act that way. Must have had a reason even though no one else knew what it was. Sad, IMO.
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Then again, there are those poor fans who just can't get a grip. I remember in L.A. two years ago, this one woman actually went into hysterics because James Storm cancelled! I mean, seriously -- she threw herself on the floor and screamed like a 3-year-old. Not very attractive in a 50-ish woman!
She was no doubt mentally ill and perhaps has the mind of a 3 year old. Hey, it's unfortunate but it happens in DS fandom. Anyone who's been in it long enough knows that some of the fans just aren't 'all there'. :-
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It is COMPLETELY unrealistic for fans to expect every single actor to show up for these events. Then again, there are those poor fans who just can't get a grip. I remember in L.A. two years ago, this one woman actually went into hysterics because James Storm cancelled! I mean, seriously -- she threw herself on the floor and screamed like a 3-year-old. Not very attractive in a 50-ish woman!
I have imagined going to the fest and being told that John Karlen couldn't make it. I know that to spend that kind of money to get there and be told that he wasn't gonna be there it would be a huge disappointment. I know I would cry [bawl] and all my DS friends would have to comfort me. I would be very upset. But I don't think I'd actually throw myself down on the floor and scream like a three year old. No that wouldn't really make a good impression. It's something people would remember. :-[
Alondra
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There's no telling what fans would do to get a minute alone--follow them to their room, interrupt their meals, follow them into the restroom, etc etc.
This is so true!
Unfortunately, I can also give an example of this type of behavior, and I've probably told the story before on this forum or one of its earlier incarnations.
At a fan event several years ago, I was singled out by David Selby while he was speaking. He was having some fun at my expense over the fact that the airline had lost my luggage. When the evening's activities were over, my roommates were socializing in our room. Because I had an exam the following Monday and because the lighting was actually better in the hallway, I was sitting on the floor outside the door studying.
A guy came up and asked me if our room was David Selby's room, and I told him it wasn't. Since I was trying to study, I didn't appreciate the interruption or the barrage of questions about what I did or didn't know about David Selby, and I think someone else from our group walked up around the same time. At any rate, it became obvious that the only way to be rid of this individual would be to go into the room, which we proceeded to do. However, this guy was absolutely certain we were hiding David Selby in our room and tried to peer in the door as we walked in. Hell, he practically tried to walk in behind us. I distinctly remember that hands and/or feet were in the way when we tried to shut the door behind us. Not pretty.
And as for fans asking tasteless questions, that happens too. A friend of mine, David Selby, and his publicist were standing at the back of the main ballroom at a Fest a few years ago waiting for the costume gala to finish up because he was going to watch Girl in Blue which they were showing afterward. A fan asked him first if I was his daughter. When he said that I wasn't, the next question the fan asked him was if I was his girlfriend. I honestly can't remember exactly what he said because I was trying not to fall in the floor laughing. During that same weekend, several people incorrectly assumed that David's publicist was his wife. When she told one fan that she wasn't his wife, before she could say that she was his publicist, the fan asked if she was his mistress. Tasteful, huh?
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Didn't Dante name one of his Rings of Hell "Celebrity"?
No?......I could have sworn....... >:D
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Lovely story about fan behavior toward Selby & Ms Criseyde!
Here's one:
a lot of people know that Louis Edmonds' acting swan song was in my film Next Year in Jerusalem (coming to DVD this summer, BTW)
Louis & I became friends after this.
Several fans offered me mony for his phone number!!!
After he passed away, someone posted graphic sexual messages about Louis & myself at another board!
And about other DS cast members & other fans!
Think that's bad?
In the eary 90s I was accused by A FEST COMMITTE MEMBER of masturbating in front of other fans!
In the late 90s, another commitee member asked me to make obscene phone calls to the homes of people in fandom that he didn't like!!!!!
This kind of crap has been going on for years, and those of us who speak up and demand better behavior are the ones who are condemed.!!!!
David
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Wow there are some scary and humorous stories out there about the fest. Now MsCriseyde you should have just asked the gentleman " Do you honestly think I would be sitting out here in the hall reading if David Selby were in my roon" >:D. At several fest I have seen people wandering the halls just knocking randomly on doors looking for Selby,KLS,John Karlan or any one of them really.
As far as the mean spirited stuff that is really unfortunate. Thankfully most fans are well intentioned and just enjoy the weekend for what it is. A big reunion of sorts. Thats how I look at it.
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That's just beyond inexcusable, David, both on the part of people asking you to compromise your professional and personal friendship with Louis Edmonds, and those committee members! I sincerely hope they are no longer associated with the festivals!
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Please don't share anything more that might further identify the committee members mentioned above. Thanks!
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Now MsCriseyde you should have just asked the gentleman " Do you honestly think I would be sitting out here in the hall reading if David Selby were in my room."
Actually, I think I said that when we were talking about it amongst ourselves after we got rid of the guy, but I don't think he realized it was my room at the time. :) Frankly, I was offended that anyone would think I would display such a supreme lack of taste as to camp outside someone's door, doing my homework, waiting for him to come out or in so that I could pounce. ::) I have far more subtle and socially appropriate techniques. ;)
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Hi all wish we did hear some news about the FEST. Hopefully soon...
Love Anne :-*
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For anyone to be "angry" at her for not being a natural is in that kind of atmosphere is like faulting someone for not being a whiz at math. You either are that or you are not.
Absolutely! I think it's great that so many of the actors show up year after year and would love to see Alexandra at one of the fests. But, I don't find it difficult to understand why someone would be hesitant to dive into a huge crowd of fans...regardless of their temperament or inclination to make kind OR stupid remarks. I can't imagine doing it myself. Just because she was on a television show many years ago doesn't mean that she's obligated to the fans of that show for the rest of her life.
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Well said, Castlebee.
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The really sad thing is this type of behavior isn't limited to just the DS Fests and the few bad apples in it's fandom. I've been to Star Trek and Anime Conventions and witnessed the same deplorable social behaviors in practice. You really have to wonder if people are being rude because they don't care, or that they just don't know any better.
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I've tended to view it as an example of what happens when some people spend way too much time watching TV and not enough time interacting with real people. A lack of social skills is often the result.
Nancy
The really sad thing is this type of behavior isn't limited to just the DS Fests and the few bad apples in it's fandom. I've been to Star Trek and Anime Conventions and witnessed the same deplorable social behaviors in practice. You really have to wonder if people are being rude because they don't care, or that they just don't know any better.
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I've tended to view it as an example of what happens when some people spend way too much time watching TV and not enough time interacting with real people. A lack of social skills is often the result.
That may be true, but there are also so-called "socialized" people (meaning they spend a good portion of their lives interacting in the outside world) who seem to be loud, rude, outspoken, pushy and obnoxious as a matter of course. They simply care about themselves and what they want at any given time - and they don't really care how they go about accomplishing it or what others think about their behavior. :-
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I see bad behavior on public transit & in movie theatres all the time.
Disruptive people are asked to leave & everyone moves on.
But at cons, rude, abusive, disruptive and even vindictive people are cheered on!
And that's what sets cons apart from the real world.
It's the people at the top who set the stage for what goes on at any event.
I no longer attend cons of any kind because of this.
Were it not for the loving atmosphere Midnite, MB,
& Dom created here, where disrespect toward others is not allowed, I'd
literally have nowhere to go to discuss DS.
David
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They simply care about themselves and what they want at any given time - and they don't really care how they go about accomplishing it or what others think about their behavior.
Yes, I don't think the problem is limited to fandom, though getting into a discussion of bad behavior in general is drifting off topic. ;)
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I've seen some unpleasant behavior at DSFs in many of the years since David stopped attending, and not just from fans, either... However, I've searched my memory banks, and cannot recall an instance of such behavior literally being CHEERED, except perhaps by close associates of the offenders. I certainly never have, and neither----in my observation--- has anyone of my acquaintance ---which includes some people on this forum, so with all due respect, please don't taint everyone with this gulit. Of course I've seldom spent 24 hours in any one place at the conventions, but when I'm there I pay attention.
I think what sets in with bystanders is paralysis of will--- we're all waiting for someone in charge to attend to the situation, anxious about interfering if the situation is actually not as bad as we percieve, or anxious not to provoke the offender in case the activity escalates to a threat level. So what generally ensues is stunned silence, nervous titters, eye-rolling, some complaints and walk-outs, but lacking the authority to do really anything about the problem, not even having an idea of what to do about it.
IMO, some of the trouble stems from the nature of the DS events. because of the concentration basically on one show, and the lack of barriers between a relatively small amount of fans (many of whom evolved into repeat attendees) and a shrinking pool of surviving actors (ditto.) There is a sense of intimacy and familiarity between the fans and even the actors, who all seem to feel like part of a (slightly dysfunctional) family reunion where one feels safe to say what they will, or act out, and be accepted.
Up to a point, that's part of the joy of the Fest experience. However there are good, useful, or at least harmless ways to express this pleasure, and bad, obnoxious, and potentially harmful actions. Some people take the extremes of being rude and pushy for its own sake, or out of impatience and/or exhaustion, and some are just intrusive out of simple curiosity and/or poorly-expressed concern for what they perceive as a problem. We who have been attending for years may never have been disruptive, and/or learned to roll with all the tribulations after a period of adjustment (I actually used to CRY the day after coming home the first 2 years, it was all so overwhelming, and at my age, thought I was beyond that sort of thing.)
The question is how to encourage others to take the high road,, and to enforce against the negative--- the old tricky, sticky, paradox of protecting both freedom of expression and freedom from harm.
If there had been, all along, some facet of a real committee to handle real complaints attendees have, it might have nipped some of the problem in the bud long ago. Such as it is, if there should continue to be DS conventions, we're left up to our own devices and try to enjoy what there is to enjoy, befriend those who appear to share the same values, try to help or at least listen to attendees who have an honest beef, take breaks from the convention area when it's boring or annoying or just for a change of scenery, etc.
Because it would have been sad to have been deprived of the opportunity to meet some very fine fellow fans--- great human beings I wouldn't have had the opportunity to under any other circumstances, to have fulfilled some dreams of meeting idols of my adolescence, to have seen some places I never would have gone alone.... Gotta take some of the bad with the good, that's life.
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Very well said, D.
At the last festival, a friend and I encountered a problem with a fan badgering Betsy Durkin. Ms. Durkin, being as sweet and gracious as she is, was trying desperately to deal with the woman and not be rude at the same time. Rather than intervene, we went to a senior volunteer who handled the situation. It all worked out well.
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I see bad behavior on public transit & in movie theatres all the time.
Disruptive people are asked to leave & everyone moves on.
But at cons, rude, abusive, disruptive and even vindictive people are cheered on!
And that's what sets cons apart from the real world.
It's the people at the top who set the stage for what goes on at any event.
I no longer attend cons of any kind because of this.
I have seen the bad behavior but never saw it cheered on thank goodness. I would like to mention that I have seen kindness and a sense of welcome that I was surprised to find the first time I went. I guess a small group of people can make life miserable but that is when we need to search out those good ones who make the fest enjoyable and worth going. Some of the friends I met through the fest are people who either came right up to me or I just started talking to them. We can't change people but at least we can choose who we socialize with. :)
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Yes, it is within enclosed social circles at cons that I saw bad behavor cheered on.
But this kind of behavior could have been nipped in the bud if the fest organizers cared enought to set rules of conduct and enforce them, which is the norm at most events.
Unfortunately, they don't care, and a few miserable souls have been given carte blanche to hurt whomever they please.
David
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I've gone to the festivals (on the east coast) since 1984 and I have not ever seen what David described. Those were personal situations he was involved with and nothing that affected the weekend festival as a whole. The people who run the festival during the weekend are not there to police or referee for fellow fans - they are there to do what they can to help things go well. I can also say that in most cases where a public disruption occurred, it was dealt with. Disruptive people were quietly removed and/or forbidden to return. Fortunately, incidents like that are the exception rather than the rule.
You can also have fans who are otherwise very civil and polite kind of lose it when they are in the presence of a "fantasy" if you will. Coming face to face and having access to an actor long admired and incorporated into the fantasy world we all have going on can make otherwise well behaved people a little obnoxious and unreasonable. However, since 1984 I can count on one hand incidents I have seen of really awful behavior manifesting itself (and not always the fans either).
From what I have heard from others attending conventions in all sorts of fandoms for decades, the DS festival is pretty tame fare.
Nancy
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That is not at all true, David. Those who run the festivals are not there to babysit. They are there to help run the festival and have some fun themselves. It's not a paying venture. Those who run the festival pay for their own room and food. The code of conduct at a festival is the same for attending a football game, a dance -- any public function. Nothing special. I've assisted at the festivals for many, many years and have been one to have had disruptive people escorted out. Still, having said that, I've never seen anything like what you describe happen publicly. What happens between other fans is a personal matter.
Nancy
Yes, it is within enclosed social circles at cons that I saw bad behavor cheered on.
But this kind of behavior could have been nipped in the bud if the fest organizers cared enought to set rules of conduct and enforce them, which is the norm at most events.
Unfortunately, they don't care, and a few miserable souls have been given carte blanche to hurt whomever they please.
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That is not at all true, David. Those who run the festivals are not there to babysit. They are there to help run the festival and have some fun themselves. It's not a paying venture. Those who run the festival pay for their own room and food. The code of conduct at a festival is the same for attending a football game, a dance -- any public function. Nothing special. I've assisted at the festivals for many, many years and have been one to have had disruptive people escorted out. Still, having said that, I've never seen anything like what you describe happen publicly. What happens between other fans is a personal matter.
I'm with you, Nancy. For the most part, attendees are adults -- most of us Baby Boomers. A code of conduct? By that age, I would assume they'd know how to mind their manners, and if they don't, shame on them. I don't see those who work the festival as having to be father/mother confessors, baby-sitters, or what have you. They very generously donate their time, from what I've seen, to make sure the festival runs as smoothly as possible and to provide the rest of the attendees with a good experience.
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Come on, Nancy, you know what goes on at these festivals.
You know how vicious some of the hatemongering has been, because you have also been subjected to it.
Sure there are good people at these things, and you., Nancy, are among the best.
But the bad folks are REALLY bad, displaying a vindictiveness that would never be tolerated at any other
event.
I know plenty of good people who, like me, no longer attend the fests because this behavior is often allowed to spiral out of control.
Throwing the bastards out is not babysitting, it's enforcing rules of decency and civility, which all public events need.
Here's food for thought:
DS ain't no Star Trek.
As much as I love DS, and I never even got into Trek, it's obvious that DS does not enjoy the huge fan base StarTrek has.
There have been 5 Trek TV shows, another Trek film is now shooting, there are hundreds of Trek novels~~these are not fan fiction.
There are numerous Trek cons all year long.
That's because Star Trek has a massive fan base that supports all this.
DS, in comparison, is a small cult.
For whatever reasons, whether deserved or not, all attempts to revive it have failed.
Many TV stations that aired DS reruns never showed the third or even second years because of low ratings.
DS is our love, but we are a very small group, and that's the truth.
Dozens of good people, many of whom still watch the show on DVD, will not attend cons or participate in fandom because of the atrocious behavior I'm talking about. I know four of them right here in San Francisco.
I knew others back in New York.
If the DS franchise is to survive, then those who would make others miserable neeed to be told to cool it, and those who have been subjected to this crap need to be not only heard, but listened to.
David
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David,
Do you really think that Fest goers should be kicked out for lack of civility, or for having vindictive or hateful feelings? Or for displaying rudeness among themselves? I'd prefer that the resources of the Festival security staff go toward personal safety issues, or behavior that disrupts the Fests for everyone.
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David I have been going to these Fests since 1987. I honestly cannot recall security issues or other incidents you described. There may heve been incidents with that darn autograph line through the years but other than that I don't know. If you are talking about off Festival hours well even then I can't immediate recall any problems. My general perception and that by many others is that the Fest provides a safe environment to its fans. I hope a few incidents you may have been involved in or have witnessed years ago does not prevent you from attending another Fest if there is one.
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Midnite:
if the behavior becomes so abusive and vindictive that it drives good people away for good, then yes, the bad folks
should be given a choice:
change or leave.
To do anything else only serves to make our small cult even smaller, which is not good.
Your wonderful board thrives in part because you do not allow such behavior here.
The DS Usenet board, and the Barnabas Undead forum were literally destroyed because trolls and hatemongers were allowed to run wild.
People left those boards in droves because of this.
David
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a fan has already been banned for his behavior. i agree with david. nancy, i dont think the situation with that fan that yelled at kls was handled very well. he was up there screaming at her for a good few minutes before anything was done and he was not kicked out and caused another incident the next day with david selby and he still continues to attend festivals. yet 20years ago an attendee was banned for his rudeness and other matters but didnt cause the kind of disruption like what occurred at the festival a few years ago.
[edited by mod.]
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Thanks, Jimbo.
You're lucky that you never experienced these things, but I have and so have many others that I've talked too.
Very few say: "I'm sorry this happened to you. Please come back." Though I do hear that at this board, thanks to all kind posters here.
At the fests themselves, most say: "You deserved it. Get over it."
I've actually been told this by THREE fest committe members, one of whom told me, IN WRITING, that [edited] was going to drive me out of fandom because I was bad for fandom's "morality".
Because I'm an openly gay man not afraid to discuss my sexuality.
I recieved hate mail from a number of this [edited] friends, some of whom I barely knew.
After awhile you say F~~~ it!
David
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I hope people realize that I honestly love DS.
The show influenced my whole life.
I'm a classic horror film fan because of DS.
I've made two films that were commercially released on video,
I now do film reviews for various publications.
It's DS that inspires me to do this kind of work, and I've written about the show many times~~several of my DS articles are archived here and at Ms. Criseyeds's site.
If I didn't love DS, if I didn't care enough about the franchise's continued survival, I would not raise these issues, which should have been raised long ago.
David
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Come on, Nancy, you know what goes on at these festivals.
I knew nothing about the things that happened to you until you told me, David. I was sorry to hear it happened and it was so upsetting to you. But it did not impact the overall festival experience for the majority of the fans.
You know how vicious some of the hatemongering has been, because you have also been subjected to it.
Stupid comments by stupid people. I don't choose to give knuckleheads the power to upset me or impact how I choose to spend my free time. I have so many other things to be concerned with on a day to day basis that really matter. What happens on a weekend once a year or every other year isn't about to make much of a dent in my life or concerns. Same with the internet. The fact I acknowledge something nasty has happened doesn't mean it seeps into every aspect of my life or being.
Sure there are good people at these things, and you., Nancy, are among the best.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
But the bad folks are REALLY bad, displaying a vindictiveness that would never be tolerated at any other
event.
If the vindictiveness is not disrupting the event, there isn't anything anyone can do about it. Again, we are all adults and not expected to police the event looking for people who are having personal disagreements and offering to mediate.
The vindictiveness you are speaking of and the cheering on of such behavior does indeed happen on a world scale. If you have ever watched CNN after a bombing of US forces, the party taking responsibility have their supporters who are jumping and cheering in the streets at the deaths of Americans. They cheer as colleagues drag the charred bodies of killed servicemen through the streets. There was cheering in the streets and great celebration when the Twin Towers collapsed killing thousands of people. It might be you are not aware this behavior has gone on since you stated that the cheering of vindictive and nasty behavior is the monopoly of the DS festivals. Do forgive me if I get more upset over what I described above (and even then, I can't change the behavior of those people) than what some jealous or silly fool says or does at a soap opera fan gathering.
I know plenty of good people who, like me, no longer attend the fests because this behavior is often allowed to spiral out of control.
That's a good solution for them if they are that upset about personal disagreements that go on. However, unless and until it disrupts the proceedings at the festival no one can do anything about it.
Throwing the bastards out is not babysitting, it's enforcing rules of decency and civility, which all public events need.
And that is already in place. If someone is stalking or harrassing you at a festival you need to tell one of the security volunteers. I don't know of a single instance where you have done that since 1984 when I have attended and been involved.
I know I am already going in circles with a subject that is not on topic for this thread. On another thread where this is the topic I would discuss more but I think I will cool it now. I don't know what else to say about it other than I am sorry you have had the experiences you have had.
Nancy
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Thanks too David. Sorry for the problems you had with those individuals but you seem to have a strong will so hang in there and hope you will give the Fest another opportunity. You might be surprised.
I think Nancy is right. Perhaps these matters should be discussed in another topic thread.
Wish you the best.
Jimbo
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First off, calling other fans names is not allowed.
Second, David, to further clarify what I said earlier in this topic, you may not provide further information about the identity of the person or persons you have publicly accused of harassment or slander: No sex, name, location, position, occupation, etc. The Forums welcome DS-related discussions (we're thrilled that fans find this a safe place to share their thoughts!), but not at the risk of liability.
if the behavior becomes so abusive and vindictive that it drives good people away for good, then yes, the bad folks
should be given a choice:
change or leave.
Well, I respectfully disagree. Behavior between adults that leads to hurt feelings is terrible, but it's not a security issue, and I don't believe that fan politics should be the Festival's concern.
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I do think it's important to say that Fest Committe members take part in these actions, that speaks volumes
for how bad the problem really is.
The system will no longer let me modify the post where I mentioned a committe member's gender.
Please feel free, mods, to change that to a generic word.
While I'm determined to bring these issues out in the open, I also feel it's important to follow board rules.
David
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Just to clarify my earlier remarks in response to some of the subsequent posts in this thread . . . I do not feel that it was the responsibility of the volunteers at either event during either incident to prevent what happened.
One incident occurred outside the door of my hotel room. I don't expect volunteers to be hall monitors. Had the incident rattled me that much, I would've contacted the hotel desk, but I didn't. In defense of the hotel, they did have security strolling down that hallway at fairly regular intervals, so there's not much more they could've done.
The other incident involved questions that were not really appropriate, but there is such a thing as free speech. I would hate to see volunteers constantly eavesdropping on conversations and telling fans to stifle themselves or risk being tossed out the door.
David, please don't take this the wrong way because I do think that incivility is repugnant, but the only vicious remarks I've heard about you have come from you via your repetition of remarks you have attributed to others. I'm not questioning the veracity of your statements or the false nature of the things that you say were said about you, but, by repeating them so often, you're just continuing their circulation rather than putting them to rest.
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Dear Ms. Criseyede:
With all due respect to you & the mods, I keep these incidents alive because I'd love to see fandom change for the better.
Then I'd consider returningto the fests.
Any lawyer can tell you that opinions are protected free speech, but slander/defamation of character are not.
I was accused of public masturbation and child molestation by a fest committee member, a stunning example of how bad things are.
In the past year, I've spoken to two fest attendees who remember this well.
Last year, I read how disgusted the mods of the Barnabas Undead forums were with the behavior of more than a few fans.
So disgusted that they shut their forum down for good.
So I pose this question again:
can our small little cult TV show, which no one wants to air anymore, survive if these incidents are allowed to continue and drive fans away?
There are good people at this board.
I hope more will speak up so things can change for the better.
David
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So disgusted that they shut their forum down for good.
The Barnabas Undead forum was devoted to the 2004 remake. When the WB took a pass on it, leaving the pilot unfinished, the owner decided that the undertaking wasn't worthwhile for a defunct project. Internet trolls are only a minor part of the work that goes into running a message board, and I'm sure he encounters them at least as often on his huge KryptonSite.
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What a lively discussion! And here I am coming into days later....
When I went to this past fest I didn't find anything offensive or uncivil about it. Granted, there were a thousand people there, so I might have missed incidents, had there actually been any, or I simply forgot about them because I didn't deem them important. Sure, there were a couple of different people who got on my nerves because they seemed to be hogging the "spotlight" or what have you, but you have to take into account that this might be their first and last fest all wrapped up in a nice package, so I let that slide.
The fact of the matter is that no matter where you are-- high school, public events, work etc-- there will always be a group of people whose sole purpose is to put others down. I'm sure there was a group at the fest this past year, even though I didn't actually see or speak with them, because there's at least ONE person like that. Someone will always be making a comment under their breath "Oh her hair looks awful!" or "Who let her out of the house?!" or whatever. I'm with Nancy--it's not something to let run your life.
Some of the incidents being described her sound, and possibly were, quite awful. I'm not sure how I'd handle myself in a situation like that. More than likely I wouldn't want to return to the fests either. But that wouldn't stop me if I wanted to go. There's a good chance that the offenders who were present at one fest, won't be there at the next one. And if they are, the likelihood of actually running into them in a sea of 1000 is slim.
Regarding the KLS yelling event: I'm surprised that fans didn't get involved. It doesn't take but a few people to restrain an individual or calm a person down until the actual security personnel arrives there, rather than letting the situation go on for too long. But, as someone else mentioned previously, people don't want to get involved for fear of escalation or personal attack. I suppose that comes with the job.
Until I witness something utterly horrendous at a fest, things like those which have been described here, you won't catch me decrying the festival or its workers for anything in that category. Now, if you want to talk autograph lines and events, that's another story.
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What a lively discussion!
I agree! :)
I just wanted to ask, since the discussion of fan behavior is ongoing, that replies by posters who have already had their say on the subject not be added unless they have something new to add. Repetitious posts about this same subject will be subject to removal. Thanks!
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Regarding the KLS yelling event: I'm surprised that fans didn't get involved. It doesn't take but a few people to restrain an individual or calm a person down until the actual security personnel arrives there, rather than letting the situation go on for too long. But, as someone else mentioned previously, people don't want to get involved for fear of escalation or personal attack. I suppose that comes with the job.
The fans did get "involved" in a rather disgusting fashion. The fan in question has a mental disability, and several audience members took it upon themselves to yell at him to get off the stage, to whistle at him, etc. Frankly, I found that behavior from the crowd far more offensive than anything the fan did. When I saw the video of that portion of the proceedings, it literally made me ill. (Commenting on other reactions that offended me would involve violating the board's guidelines about referring to other sites and forums in a negative light, but suffice it to say that this type of behavior didn't end when the event itself ended.)
As to why he was or wasn't banned, there's probably a very simple explanation. None of the actors who interacted with him in the incidents presented here requested it. The response to this fan's behavior reveals far more about the observers' incivility and intolerance than the fan's.
This raises a larger question. Who's to decide what is or isn't appropriate behavior?
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i dont think the situation with that fan that yelled at kls was handled very well. he was up there screaming at her for a good few minutes before anything was done and he was not kicked out and caused another incident the next day with david selby and he still continues to attend festivals.
If this is the incident I *think* it was, that gentleman was mentally retarded (Down's Syndrome) and although it WAS disruptive, it's hard to kick a retarded guy out. He probably didn't understand fully what he was doing or saying. This was the guy who kept calling KLS Maggie Evans right? And saying she'd betrayed us? Now, if he was w/someone, an aid for example, who wasn't disabled, which I think MUST'VE been the case 'cause this guy was REALLY disabled, then IMHO it is/was up to that person to discreetly remove him and try to prevent a further incident which apparently happened the next day.
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Something was done about any future incidents occurring. The man in question had a chaperone who was not paying attention at the time of the incident. The chaperone was told that he must be with the gentleman at all times at the festival to prevent another incident of its kind from happening. There should have been volunteers at the stage as well and there were not. A screw up, obviously. But this gentleman and his chaperone have attended subsequent DS events without any further incident.
Nancy
If this is the incident I *think* it was, that gentleman was mentally retarded (Down's Syndrome) and although it WAS disruptive, it's hard to kick a retarded guy out. He probably didn't understand fully what he was doing or saying. This was the guy who kept calling KLS Maggie Evans right? And saying she'd betrayed us? Now, if he was w/someone, an aid for example, who wasn't disabled, which I think MUST'VE been the case 'cause this guy was REALLY disabled, then IMHO it is/was up to that person to discreetly remove him and try to prevent a further incident which apparently happened the next day.
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Something was done about any future incidents occurring. The man in question had a chaperone who was not paying attention at the time of the incident. The chaperone was told that he must be with the gentleman at all times at the festival to prevent another incident of its kind from happening. There should have been volunteers at the stage as well and there were not. A screw up, obviously. But this gentleman and his chaperone have attended subsequent DS events without any further incident.
Nancy
I remember this incident quite well and agree the gentleman should have had his chaperone attending him. We had a down symdrome friend of our family who was perfectly fine with people he knew but outside of his comfort zone he sometimes became difficult when stressed or around large groups of people. However as I was a volunteer a few years in a row I can tell you that I would not have been equipt to handle that situation. My first volunteer experience was not pleasant as one young lady told me to "F" off :o when I told her what door she needed to leave from. That was my first fest too but that was just one bad experience out of many great ones that weekend. Sounds like we need some bouncers at the doors ::) ;D
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LOL, wouldn't you know it that would be your first volunteer experience - having someone mouth off at you. Fortunately, you stuck with it and realized most people are quite agreeable and polite as long as the volunteer in the situation is too. Every once in awhile you get someone whose parents left him or her on the Tilt-a-whirl too long as a child . . . . >:D
Nancy
However as I was a volunteer a few years in a row I can tell you that I would not have been equipt to handle that situation. My first volunteer experience was not pleasant as one young lady told me to "F" off :o when I told her what door she needed to leave from. That was my first fest too but that was just one bad experience out of many great ones that weekend. Sounds like we need some bouncers at the doors ::) ;D
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My first volunteer experience was not pleasant as one young lady told me to "F" off :o when I told her what door she needed to leave from.
I'm sorry. It will never happen again. ;D
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Oh, I didn't realize that the fan involved with the KLS incident was mentally disabled. I searched through the past posts that I missed under this topic and didn't see it explained (maybe I missed it). If I had known that, my response to the issue would've been much different.
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I work with cognitively disabled people, including those with Down's, and the behavior of the young man is typical when one understands how someone with his affliction "views things." There are different levels of Down's, from moderate to severe, and some with the condition can live very productive and independent lives (recall the young actor who appeared in that one TV show called, I think, "Life Goes On"). Because of the brain's inability to process things, they often become highly focused on something and anything out of the "norm" of it (as they see it) brings confusion and trepidation. For example, with several of the Down's people I work with, they have very set patterns, even in the way they eat, and if this is changed it disrupts their "comfort zone" and they can become very aggitated. It's like having a security rug pulled out from under you. In the case of the young man at the festival, and I'm hypothesizing here, to him KLS was Maggie Evans, and the show was probably "reality" to him. When she, as Maggie, left the show, it disrupted life for him, and thus her "betrayal." Of course, it might have been some other "issue," but that's how he saw things; he can't help it.
But I do agree that his aide should have been with him at all times. He was in a strange place with nothing familiar to him, and a greater risk was not what happened on stage, but if he should have become lost and totally disorientated, causing panic. Imagine him, in confusion, walking out the door of the hotel into the streets of whatever city this was in (places like New York and Los Angeles can be overwhelming for "normal" folk, let alone those with a cognitive disability). Turn your back for a second and it can happen. We never, ever, leave those in our charge out of eyeshot for any reason.
Gerard
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That's very interesting insight, Gerard. Thanks!
Nancy
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Oh, I didn't realize that the fan involved with the KLS incident was mentally disabled. I searched through the past posts that I missed under this topic and didn't see it explained (maybe I missed it). If I had known that, my response to the issue would've been much different.
Brandon, the first mention that he was disabled were the posts by MsCriseyede and myself, and speaking for myself, I was only guessing that this was the incident Joe was referring to. Since he hasn't said it was someone else I'm going to assume it *was* this incident. Your post came before ours, so don't feel bad, you didn't know. ;)