DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '07 I => Topic started by: Watching Project on January 19, 2007, 06:00:55 AM
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Robservations - #214
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Great episode! I remember the first time I saw it in '76 being enthralled by the wealth of detail Barnabas rolls out about the building of the Old House. Vicki continues to be sharp on the ball here, too. I know there's an episode in one of these early ones where Barnabas actually delivers a veiled threat to her. There's a "Nancy Drew" element to Vicki, continued from the Matthew and Laura storylines, that I wish they had kept.
Isn't this the show where Roger makes the remark about bringing back a recipe for Indian pudding for Mrs J? And he makes some smart remark about how hopeless her cooking is. I love little details like this that add some color to the proceedings.
Anyone remember who wrote this show?
G.
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My oh my, was Barnabas ever creepy in the Old House with Vicky. Very injudicious of him, but it seemed he just couldn't help it - it came pouring out of him. Lots of fun to watch.
And the conversation between Roger and Carolyn was most enjoyable. After yesterday's scene in the Blue Whale, I thought to myself, "I don't like horror movies, but on the other hand I never like Dark Shadows when they abandon the supernatural." Today I've got to rethink that notion.
Question: is Mrs. Johnson's boiled dinner mentioned at any other point in the series? And if she made Indian pudding from the recipe that Roger brought to her, would she serve it with whipped cream or with ice cream? Or with mayonnaise?
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The real question is whether Mrs J used to serve Whip 'n' Chill as the dessert nearly every weeknight at Collinwood.
Oh boy, I am really pushing those memory banks here...
G.
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Anyone remember who wrote this show?
Malcolm Marmorstein. Love Roger's snappy dialogue!
After yesterday's scene in the Blue Whale, I thought to myself, "I don't like horror movies, but on the other hand I never like Dark Shadows when they abandon the supernatural." Today I've got to rethink that notion.
That's great news, Lydia.
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;D I loved the conversation between Roger and Carolyn. "You just can't keep the jet set down. Has he accepted an invitation from the prince and princess of Monocco or maybe he just couldn't stand another of Mrs. Johnson's boiled dinners." Seems there really weren't that many references made to Mrs. Johnson's lousy cooking but this one and the one between Jason and Willie when Jason praised it to the skies while she was in the room and after she left he said she burns everything.
I'm not sure just what Indian pudding is. It sounds good but not if she boils it lol!
Alondra
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I loved watching Barnabas, how he walked, talked and presented himself to others. He sure changed as the years moved on, less formal. When he talked about the people who lived in the Old House, the "son" that died there, you just knew he was talking about him. And that shot of him staring through the banister, WOW.
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The real question is whether Mrs J used to serve Whip 'n' Chill as the dessert nearly every weeknight at Collinwood.
Oh boy, I am really pushing those memory banks here...
Whip & Chill?? Is that the Jello dessert?
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There's no doubt about it. This is Frid's episode. He is sooooo convincing as Barnabas, he makes your skin crawl.
Barnabas talks about the Old House being made of clam shells and horse hairs and sweat and tears. He has so much pride in this house. This is one of my fave episodes and Frid carries it off in spades.
Big Lou is sanctimonious as Roger. Let us indulge in Misssus Johnson's Indian pudding. Such as it is.
Bravo for Jonathan. Kudos. This is his episode.
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Be sure to check out these (hopefully ;)) humorous topics related to this episode:
From "Caption This!":
From "Complete This Phrase / Fill In The Blank(s)":
(none yet)
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I'm not sure just what Indian pudding is.
The Joy of Cooking recipe includes, among other things, molasses, milk, cornmeal, ginger, and sugar. I don't cook unless my life depends on it, so I used to pester my sister to make Indian pudding. She would always say it was too much trouble. Since it involves boiling, double boiling, baking for three hours, and pouring a cup of milk over the whole concoction an hour into the baking, I guess I can see her point. But when served with vanilla ice cream, it is truly sublime. Next time you're in Boston, Alondra, go to Durgin Park (an old-fashioned restaurant near Faneuil Hall) and order it. Every time I see this episode, I wonder if Roger was at Durgin Park.
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Wow, I've lived in Boston for 13 years and never been to Durgin Park!
My sister made Indian Pudding once back in the Seventies and it did indeed take 3 hours.
I had the feeling this was going to turn out to have been a Malcolm Marmorstein show. I really loved his writing for DS. He got a bum rap in an interview Sam Hall did that was widely printed in an early DS themed publication.
G.
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Wow, I've lived in Boston for 13 years and never been to Durgin Park! G.
I've NEVER lived in Boston and I've been to Durgin Park half a dozen times!!!
Skipped the Indian Pudding, tho..... :P
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Wonderful scenes of Barnabas showing his angst. I agree, it's too bad the "Nancy Drew" aspect of Vicki disappeared. It's a shame that they "dumbed her down" .
----- Sally -----
[coolg]
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Vicki continues to be sharp on the ball here, too. I know there's an episode in one of these early ones where Barnabas actually delivers a veiled threat to her. There's a "Nancy Drew" element to Vicki, continued from the Matthew and Laura storylines, that I wish they had kept.
i'm not part of the "watching project" so i haven't really been commenting on these episodes but i did see them quite recently.
i agree with gothick that in these very early barnabas episodes vicki retains the appealing "nancy-drew-ish-ness" that she had for the first year or so.in fact there is an episode right around here(when barnabas was still only supposed to be a thirteen week character)that she actually seems "on" to him.not specifically on to the the vampire thing but there is a scene where carolyn is babbling on about how great she thinks barnabas is and vicki counters with a note of suspicion about how odd he is.i got used to seeing the character like this and was surprised and disappointed when she gets watered-down so much later.
shortly after this when barnabas shifts his attention from maggie to vicki they change the writing so that vicki becomes "fond" of barnabas.this not only changes the storyline but the nature of the character completely.
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I believe that was in this episode or maybe the last one? Vicki had just spent time in conversation with Barnabas at the Old House and now she was talking to Carolyn about how Barnabas knew so much about the house and how he had been able to open the door when it had stuck on her. Carolyn kept telling her it was all her imagination, or she was being too suspicious. I thought Vicki was being astute and thinking.
Alondra
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Yes, it was in this episode that Vicky commented to Carolyn that Barnabas was a little odd. Barnabas behaved very weirdly in the Old House, but only Vicky saw that, not Carolyn. After he and Vicky went over to Collinwood, where Roger and Carolyn were, he was pretty normal, so it made sense that Vicky thought he was a little strange and Carolyn didn't.
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true,
but after the writers decide that vicki and barnabas become "friends"(at least in her estimation)she becomes unable to recognize any of his numerous glaring peculiarities.more than just that but when burke rightly points them out to her she refuses to hear it and goes so far as to threaten to call off their engagement is he persues the topic any further.
so with this one change in the direction of the storyline the entire nature of this character goes from being inquisitive and a sharp judge of character to almost pathalogically naive.
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I'm not so sure about this. I haven't watched any of these episodes in nearly two years, but I don't remember Barnabas ever being so totally weird again after that scene in the Old House - correct me if I'm wrong. Vicky tended to get split off into the Jason plot, so it seems to me she didn't see too much of Barnabas for a while. Memories fade and their edges wear down, and after a few more encounters with Barnabas in which he seemed simply old-world-Continental as Carolyn had asserted, it would be reasonable for Vicky to feel that her first impression of Barnabas was a little bit off, and that any oddity she had observed was due to his being uncomfortable with strangers, and that he was OK after all, and his peculiarities were no big deal.
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i just got done watching this show. Jonathan was so good talking about how the house was built. The door scene was great. If I didn't know any better i would have thought that Barnabas made the door stick. He didn't want Vickie to go, good or bad. It was great how jonathan really got into charactor.
[spoiler]Do you guys know when the set was accidently thrown out and they had to build another one over the weekend?? I think Sam Hall refered to it on the DVD's interviews Also it looks like they didn't have a back story for Barnabas then. Saying Jerimiah and Josette lived in the house. Not that he was in love with Josette.[/spoiler]
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[spoiler]Also it looks like they didn't have a back story for Barnabas then. Saying Jerimiah and Josette lived in the house. Not that he was in love with Josette.[/spoiler]
They had one already. It's just that it came out in bits and pieces and, of course, it was totally different from what we would see in 1795/96.
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so with this one change in the direction of the storyline the entire nature of this character goes from being inquisitive and a sharp judge of character to almost pathalogically naive.
I wonder if this is intended, or did they just need another Sweet Young Thing for Barnabas. I liked her when she is smart.
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lydia,
if i may i think we are talking about two different things.
i wasn't thinking so much about how vicki's attitude towards barnabas might have softened over time had they been "real" people(which it certainly might have)but more in terms of how the writing for the character changed after a certain point.
in these very early episodes when the thought was that barnabas would function strictly in a villainous role,and for a thirteen week cycle,it's not inconceivable that vicki was meant to get wise to him at some point just as she had during the previous(laura collins)storyline.indeed she might have been threatened as part of his intended demise however...
once it became clear that barnabas was becoming a wildly popular character and his run extended they changed the writing for victoria so that she no longer had any doubts about him whatsoever...she became fond of him(thus blinded to his oddness)and it changed her character's nature.hence the dawn of the perpetually "clueless" vicki we all know and love/hate. :P
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That is a great idea. The SYT came later. But in this show Barnabas just seemed to be a little bit, strange, but then wouldn't you have been if you were in a coffin a very long time. [blackbat]
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it's not inconceivable that vicki was meant to get wise to him at some point just as she had during the previous(laura collins)storyline.
Light dawns on Marblehead....that's a possibility that had never occurred to me - possibly because Vicky wasn't much involved in the Barnabas/Maggie story. I had figured that the original plan was to have Maggie stake Barnabas. But I suppose it could have happened in the way you suggested. After David
[spoiler]saw Maggie in the Old House and thought she was Josette's ghost (love that scene)[/spoiler] he could have told Vicky about it, and Vicky could have gone to see for herself, and figured things out. Or it could have been worked out some other way - there are always wonderful what-if possibilities on Dark Shadows.
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A late blooming thought on another subject: In the beginning of the book Dracula, Jonathan Harker records his meals in his journal: "I had for dinner, or rather supper, a chicken done up some way with red pepper, which was very good but thirsty." It was clearly a prelude to the idea of having raw blood for dinner (or supper), with no need of pepper to make it red. It seems to me that the intention was for Roger's talk of chowder, Indian pudding, and boiled dinner to be a reflection of that.