DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '07 I => Topic started by: IluvBarnabas on January 18, 2007, 09:25:29 PM
-
I don't know about you all but I for one would not want to be hanged.....I used to think beheading was the worse way to die, but then I stopped to think about it....one quick chop (assuming nothing goes wrong with the blade) and it's all over....however I have watched documentaries about hangings where the victim is strangling on the rope for as long as 20 minutes! That has got to be the worst, to have a long, prolonged death, suffering to the end.
[spoiler]Fortunately for Vicki, she got wisked back to the 20th-century before she could find out for herself![/spoiler]
-
In the good old days, hanging was just the prelude to drawing and quartering, and I believe the intention was that the hanging not be fatal, so that the victim would be alive to enjoy the rest of the show. This being the case, I'd definitely opt to be beheaded, if I had to make the choice.
-
In Iraq, lately, you get both for no extra charge.
-
In Iraq, lately, you get both for no extra charge.
Well, I won't be heading over there to hang around!
Nancy
-
The DS producers seem to have decided decapitation was upping the ante, since Vicki's punishment in 1796 was the threat of being hung as a witch, while Quentin in 1840 faced public decapitation, something I'm quite sure has NEVER been practiced in US law enforcement but, what the hey.
I have read some descriptions of Tudor era public decapitations and it could be a grisly, prolonged death just as much as hanging was. There was a reason why Anne Boleyn requested a swordsman from France to be her executioner--a request that Henry honored.
G.
-
Actually, when aristocrats were beheaded in Tudor times, many of them paid their executioners to be sure the blade was sharp enough to do the deed with one clean cut. Prior to that, beheaders would just hack away at the person, which makes me quite ill.
I guess this is why the guillotine was considered so innovative. WHAP -- and there went the head!
As for the question about beheading Quentin publicly, I believe the rationale for that was that they were reverting to laws upheld in the 1600s. It's kind of flimsy, yes, but it kind or explains how they would even have a witchcraft trial in the first place, let alone a judgment of public beheading!
-
I have read some descriptions of Tudor era public decapitations and it could be a grisly, prolonged death just as much as hanging was. There was a reason why Anne Boleyn requested a swordsman from France to be her executioner--a request that Henry honored.
During the tour of the Tower of London, the yeoman told several gruesome historical stories, and in one of them a prisoner, whose name I forget, was beheaded, and it took at least 5 good whacks to divest the executee's head from his body...Hopefully the executioner didn't take a tea break half-way through. Union rules, you know.
-
As for the question about beheading Quentin publicly, I believe the rationale for that was that they were reverting to laws upheld in the 1600s. It's kind of flimsy, yes, but it kind or explains how they would even have a witchcraft trial in the first place, let alone a judgment of public beheading!
And at least in Ep #1131 Barnabas does remark with reference to Judah Zachery that "decapitation is an unusual form of execution." ;)
-
Well, I won't be heading over there to hang around!
Won't "be heading" over there?
Bwa-haa-haaa!
-
I know - my sense of humor leaves a lot to be desired. 8)
Nancy
Won't "be heading" over there?
Bwa-haa-haaa!
-
One question is: How many fleeting moments of physical consciousness a decapitated person experiences before slipping away into eternity? A friend seemed to think that decapitated people actually do have a quick moment of consciousness after being beheaded -- NO, MY FRIEND HAS NOT BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT, LOL.
A recent news article said that judicial hangings are actually intended to snap the neck and cause immediate paralysis and unconsciousness, and that some hangings do literally decapitate the victims.
Another grisly though unintentional means of execution: an elevator door. Someone in NYC actually got decapitated in 1993 in an elevator accident.
I don't know about you all but I for one would not want to be hanged.....I used to think beheading was the worse way to die, but then I stopped to think about it....one quick chop (assuming nothing goes wrong with the blade) and it's all over....however I have watched documentaries about hangings where the victim is strangling on the rope for as long as 20 minutes! That has got to be the worst, to have a long, prolonged death, suffering to the end.
[spoiler]Fortunately for Vicki, she got wisked back to the 20th-century before she could find out for herself![/spoiler]
-
In Iraq, lately, you get both for no extra charge.
I'm glad someone said it, I was considering it. I watched both the full execution of Saddam and his autopsy footage and it was beyond disgusting. He basically got both! :o
-
I watched both the full execution of Saddam and his autopsy footage and it was beyond disgusting.
Um, then why did you watch it? Or at least continue to watch it after it became disgusting? :-
-
Al Qaeda's executioners do not quickly and mercifully chop off the victim's head. It's a long, sawing process with a knife that may last more than a minute. It's beyond inhuman.
Before the guillotine -- in the old days of "civilized" beheading -- the person with the soon-to-be-empty shoulders would often pay the axeman to sharpen his blade and keep a steady hand. An executioner who had a lot on his mind or might have sank a couple of pints prior to doing the deed might occasionally need two or three strokes to complete the anatomical separation.
-
:-[ When they were first talking about Vicki being a witch reference was made to being burned at the stake, which is what they did in the 1690's when they had the witch trials in Salem. I'm glad they changed it to hanging. Though any of these forms of death are grisley, being burned at the stake would be the worst, seems it would take the longest and be the most agonizing way to die.
Alondra
-
I know this board doesn't allow for a lot of OT and political discussions so if anyone is interested in talking about the war in Iraq, etc. I invite you to come to a political discussion board I moderate. The board was started by actor Carroll O'Connor in 1997.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79406/
Nancy
-
Personally, I'd rather be beheaded. Otherwise, I'd be spinning in my grave every time someone said hung instead of hanged in reference to my execution. Umm, yeah, my degree is in English. ;D
-
Thanks for offering to move any discussion about Iraq to your board, Nancy. ;)
-
Lethal injection would be my choice, or being shot in the head...rather than being hanged or beheaded.
I was watching some History Channel program the other day, and what I found quite interesting that I didn't know about hanging, was that hanging is intended to snap your neck and knock you unconscious, and once it does so, then you choke to death. That seems quite humane to me, but then again, your head can come clean off and you can also strangle to death while still conscious. I suppose nothings fullproof...
-
poor,poor miss winters.
at one point or another the dear girl faced all three types of execution under discussion here.
beheadment at the hands of matthew morgan(remember matthew sharpening that ax!),burning at the stake(didn't angelique want to revive some of the "old customs" when she set that house of cards ablaze?),and of course she found herself at the gallows on more than one occasion.
that's more persecution than the average governess can take!
-
I watched both the full execution of Saddam and his autopsy footage and it was beyond disgusting.
Um, then why did you watch it? Or at least continue to watch it after it became disgusting?
Well, the execution itself wasn't that bad to be honest. The worst part was seeing that he was dead on the rope (eyes open) and then the video ends right there. I only watched it once, not knowing how much they would show. I watched one of those horrible Faces of Death movies when I was in my 20's, not realizing how horrific those things (never watched another one), and this was nowhere near as bad or graphic.
As far as the autopsy video, it was really just someone going into the morgue where you see a body on a gurney w/a sheet over it. They lift the sheet and you see it's Saddam, again, not that bad, then they zoom in on his neck and you see it's cut by the rope. It happens so fast you don't realize what it is you're seeing until it's too late. Once I realized what I was looking at I was like "Holy s#@*!", then the video ends. Believe me, if I'd known what it was, I wouldn't have viewed it. [sour]
-
Believe me, if I'd known what it was, I wouldn't have viewed it.
Frankly, I could've done without the verbal description too. Spoiler tags would've produced the right effect, though I'm not sure spoiler would be the appropriate word here.
-
:-[ When they were first talking about Vicki being a witch reference was made to being burned at the stake, which is what they did in the 1690's when they had the witch trials in Salem.
Actually, the idea that Salem witches were burned at the stake is a myth. All of the so-called witches were hanged (one was crushed to death by stones because he refused to confess). No American witch was ever burned at the stake, though it did happen in Europe especially to heretics.
I think beheading would be the most gruesome form of execution to watch (very bloody, maybe the job wouldn't be done right), but hanging would be the most gruesome to experience. Beheading by guillotine is supposedly very effective and relatively humane compared to swinging and kicking for several minutes while slowly suffocating. [sick]
ProfStokes
-
Didn't they also throw suspected witches into a river or pond or something to see if they would sink or float? If memory serves, if they came up floating (or swiming, or whatever) then they were said to be a witch but if they drowned and sank to the bottom then they weren't a witch.
So I guess if you weren't a witch that you'd have to go through a pretty damned hard trial to get people to believe it. :-
-
I'm glad Vicki didn't get beheaded... :o she might not have made it back to 1968 without her head. And the exchange would have been messy with Phyllis showing up without a head in 1795. The family would have to deal with a mess! :'(
-
:-[ When they were first talking about Vicki being a witch reference was made to being burned at the stake, which is what they did in the 1690's when they had the witch trials in Salem.
Actually, the idea that Salem witches were burned at the stake is a myth. All of the so-called witches were hanged (one was crushed to death by stones because he refused to confess). No American witch was ever burned at the stake, though it did happen in Europe especially to heretics.
I think beheading would be the most gruesome form of execution to watch (very bloody, maybe the job wouldn't be done right), but hanging would be the most gruesome to experience. Beheading by guillotine is supposedly very effective and relatively humane compared to swinging and kicking for several minutes while slowly suffocating. [sick]
Thanks for sharing this information. Though hanging would be a terrible way to die, like I said, burning would be worse at least IMO.
Beheading would be more gruesome. I just watched the 1840 storyline [spoiler]where Quentin and Desmond were sentenced to be beheaded. As Quentin lay his head down on the block there was a bucket on the other side of the block to catch his head! Gak! And it wasn't a guillotine (which would have made the cut more sure and BRIEF!!) but a man with a long blade and you had to hope his aim was true...otherwise the absolute agony of the last few seconds would be horrifying indeed.[/spoiler]
I think I'd probably prefer firing squad to any of the other ways of execution, it would be very brief.
Alondra
-
Then again, speaking of executions that are especially "cruel" and "unusual," you might be strapped to a chair and forced to watch Schuyler Rumson as he blowdrys and coifs his absolutely perfect head of hair in front of an oversized vanity mirror for the rest of your (and more disturbingly, HIS) natural life! [luv] [5363] [grim]
-
Then again, speaking of executions that are especially "cruel" and "unusual," you might be strapped to a chair and forced to watch Schuyler Rumson as he blowdrys and coifs his absolutely perfect head of hair in front of an oversized vanity mirror for the rest of your (and more disturbingly, HIS) natural life!
LOL! Or watch ANY Roger Davis scenes! >:D
-
LOL! Or watch ANY Roger Davis scenes! >:D
Yes, Jeff Clark, the Max von Sydow of Dark Shadows! [cool9] [signblah05] [director] [furious3] [gun]
-
Personally, I'd rather be beheaded. Otherwise, I'd be spinning in my grave every time someone said hung instead of hanged in reference to my execution. Umm, yeah, my degree is in English. ;D
that is one of my pet peeves too .... :P
-
I think beheading would be the most gruesome form of execution to watch (very bloody, maybe the job wouldn't be done right), but hanging would be the most gruesome to experience. Beheading by guillotine is supposedly very effective and relatively humane compared to swinging and kicking for several minutes while slowly suffocating. [sick]
Everyone, relax!! Now there's a way to have 2 executions in one!! I work for the Indianapolis Star, so that is the source that I will draw my exerpt from... in case you haven't heard about this already:
Hussein's half brother decapitated by hanging (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007701160385)
Copyright 2006 IndyStar.com. All rights reserved
....Um, I'm guessing they knew what they were doing when the hangman determined the weight, and length of rope....
Sleep tight everyone :)
(edited by mod. due to copyright)
-
Oh, you can bet this was done on purpose. When I heard about it, I almost got physically ill.
-
LOL! Or watch ANY Roger Davis scenes! >:D
I hear ya Buzz! His voice grates on my nerves especially when he's agitated.
Alondra :-[
-
I do believe that it was Anne Boleyn who requested that a swordsman, rather than an axeman, give her her final wash and set, shall we say for delicated purposes. She knew that it was common for an ax to take several whacks, whereas a sharp sword yielded by a talented swinger was quicker. Her request was granted.
Gerard
-
If a hanging is done correctly then it is fast. I certainly do not hope this happens to anyone I know.
Lori.
-
LOL! Or watch ANY Roger Davis scenes! >:D
Yes, Jeff Clark, the Max von Sydow of Dark Shadows!
Now hold on Bob, I *like* Max von Sydow! LOL! ;)
-
His voice grates on my nerves
It's even more grating in person! :P
-
Did you see him at a festival?? Would like to go to one if one is ever up my way.
Lori
-
Did you see him at a festival?? Would like to go to one if one is ever up my way.
We've gone off topic, but Roger Davis stopped attending DS Festivals for personal reasons that I won't get into here. He was a no show at the Vista Halloween Party last year, but who knows if he had actually confirmed with the organizers. But he makes appearances at autograph shows that occasionally reunite him with Alias Smith and Jones co-star Ben Murphy. Often, announcements for them are posted on the Calendar board.
-
As for the question about beheading Quentin publicly, I believe the rationale for that was that they were reverting to laws upheld in the 1600s. It's kind of flimsy, yes, but it kind or explains how they would even have a witchcraft trial in the first place, let alone a judgment of public beheading!
And at least in Ep #1131 Barnabas does remark with reference to Judah Zachery that "decapitation is an unusual form of execution." ;)
I'm fuzzy on details here (being I've been fuzzy brained from too many hours at work anyway) but I DO remember some show on History channel, PROBABLY on witchcraft, that said that beheading was a common form of execution for witchcraft in Europe in I believe 1500s-1600s.
Anyone else see this particular show and have a clearer memory of the details?
-
One question is: How many fleeting moments of physical consciousness a decapitated person experiences before slipping away into eternity? A friend seemed to think that decapitated people actually do have a quick moment of consciousness after being beheaded -- NO, MY FRIEND HAS NOT BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT, LOL.
A recent news article said that judicial hangings are actually intended to snap the neck and cause immediate paralysis and unconsciousness, and that some hangings do literally decapitate the victims.
This brings to mind a show I saw on History Channel's Wild West Tech. The show was on executions and had a lot on hanging. What you mention was covered, there is apparently a science to where to put the knot and a formula to calculate victim weight to length of rope and number of turns. The desired result is immediate breakage of neck, which to the best of their knowledge causes quick painless death.
However if they get it wrong you get a result like one I just read about in a bio of Teddy Roosevelt. Apparently in the hanging of a murderess, they got it very wrong and she dangled and strangled for about 25 min, crying and sobbing the whole time. Don't recall if that was a PUBLIC hanging or not.
Public hangings were common till turn of the century depending on locale, and people turned out for them like they were parties, complete with picnic lunches.
I could really see Edward Collins dragging kid Carl and kid Quentin to one of those, to teach the scamps what happened to kids who, in the parlance of the time, were "born to be hung."
-
Personally, I'd rather be beheaded. Otherwise, I'd be spinning in my grave every time someone said hung instead of hanged in reference to my execution. Umm, yeah, my degree is in English. ;D
[laughing4] From a fellow English major.
You made me think of I think Tarrytown at a HODS panel, where LP kept talking about Angelique being HUNG, and the tag team of Karlen and Selby kept ragging her about Hanged, hung and well hung.....
[91a2]
-
Then again, speaking of executions that are especially "cruel" and "unusual," you might be strapped to a chair and forced to watch Schuyler Rumson as he blowdrys and coifs his absolutely perfect head of hair in front of an oversized vanity mirror for the rest of your (and more disturbingly, HIS) natural life! [luv] [5363] [grim]
[evil6] [rofl10] [laughing4]
-
You made me think of I think Tarrytown at a HODS panel, where LP kept talking about Angelique being HUNG, and the tag team of Karlen and Selby kept ragging her about Hanged, hung and well hung.....
She repeats the mistake in her piece on Salem for the Bloopers & Treasures DVD; therefore, I consider it part of the bloopers and not part of the treasures. >:D
-
LP kept talking about Angelique being HUNG
Well, even the NoDS ad campaign says "Hung as a witch"! ::)
-
From a fellow English major. You made me think of I think Tarrytown at a HODS panel, where LP kept talking about Angelique being HUNG, and the tag team of Karlen and Selby kept ragging her about Hanged, hung and well hung.....
Being an English major myself this also drives me batty! [blackbat] Another thing that makes me insane is when ppl say things like "We couldn't have did this" or "He shouldn't have drove" etc... I mean, they HAVE to know that doesn't even SOUND correct, right? ::)
She repeats the mistake in her piece on Salem for the Bloopers & Treasures DVD; therefore, I consider it part of the bloopers and not part of the treasures.
LOL! Indeed! And isn't SHE an English major? Or got her MA in English? Sheesh! ::)
-
LOL! Indeed! And isn't SHE an English major? Or got her MA in English? Sheesh! ::)
She has an MA in Creative Writing.
Emphasis on the creative part, perhaps? ;)
-
Personally, even if LP hadn't kept talking about Angelique being "hung" as a witch instead of "hanged" as a witch, I would still count that segment as one of the "bloopers" of that DVD, and NOT the treasures. Because when I watched it at the fest last year, it was incrediably boring and was one of the few times I actually got up and left during a program. Let's hope she doesn't attempt to start a talk show to fill up the afternoon time NBC will have in the next few years. ;)
-
LOL! Indeed! And isn't SHE an English major? Or got her MA in English? Sheesh! ::)
She has an MA in Creative Writing.
Well, in fairness to her, there's a common misconception that an English degree at any level includes some sort of formal grammar training. It usually doesn't. That's supposed to be taught prior to college (hence the term "grammar school"). The grammar that is covered in college is usually handled in freshman composition courses as a review based on common errors in student papers. There are optional grammar courses that students can take, but they don't count toward the major, and most students take them for enrichment purposes, not because they are passionate about past participles.
-
most students take them for enrichment purposes, not because they are passionate about past participles.
I was considering majoring in past participles but was so disappointed when I couldn't find even one college that offered even one course in it! >:(
;D
-
I was considering majoring in past participles but was so disappointed when I couldn't find even one college that offered even one course in it!
I think that has to do with fear over lawsuits should students take to dangling their participles in class. ;D
-
I was considering majoring in past participles but was so disappointed when I couldn't find even one college that offered even one course in it! >:(
;D
I'm a gerund man, myself. Hey, waitaminnut! wasn't he on the series - Gerund Stiles??? Did he get hanged? Or beheaded? >:D
-
I'm a gerund man, myself. Hey, waitaminnut! wasn't he on the series - Gerund Stiles??? Did he get hanged? Or beheaded? >:D
Gerund, eh? [spoiler]Well, it was neither HangING nor BeheadING. It was a shootING![/spoiler]
-
Gerund, eh? [spoiler]Well, it was neither HangING nor BeheadING. It was a shootING![/spoiler]
[spoiler][rocket][/spoiler]
Or shouldn't that be: [a395] THE TROUT
or maybe THE LARCH [pyth] [spam1]
-
I think that has to do with fear over lawsuits should students take to dangling their participles in class. ;D
Thank you, MsCriseyde, for my Laugh-Out-Loud of the day. I don't even mind the tea all over my keyboard......[lghy]
-
More fun with the Tudor times!
In 1541, Margaret, Countess of Salisbury, refused to lay her head on the chopping block and had to be chased around tower green by the executioner who hacked her to death. She was 71 at the time.
James, Duke of Monmouth, paid the executioner six guineas to do the job correctly, as he had heard that Jack, the executioner had taken 4-5 blows to dispatch his Lord Russell. Jack was so nervous that the first strike only grazed the back of the Duke's head. The Duke actually turned to glare at his executioner. Two more blows did not sever the Duke's head and Jack offered 40 guineas to anyone in the crowd who could do better. The sherrif of Middlesex told Jack that he would have him killed if he didn't finish the job. After two more blows with the axe failed, Jack had to pull his knife and finish the job.
John Bartendale, a traveling minstrel, was convicted of felony and hanged for an hour until people thought he was dead. A passerby later on noticed earth moving where he had been buried and dug him up. Apparently he sat up upon being revived and asked where he was!
-
John Bartendale, a traveling minstrel, was convicted of felony and hanged for an hour until people thought he was dead. A passerby later on noticed earth moving where he had been buried and dug him up. Apparently he sat up upon being revived and asked where he was!
Don't stop there! :) John was retried and this time acquitted. The former minstrel subsequently found a career as an ostler (stable hand). This was in 1643, which is a little odd because I would have thought provisions under English common law would have prevented retrial for the same offense.
-
This was in 1643, which is a little odd because I would have thought provisions under English common law would have prevented retrial for the same offense.
I thought that was weird myself when I read it, but am not familiar with English law of the period.
-
I've read some stories like the one Arashi cites but don't know how common they are. The profession of executioner, at least in northeastern France where I've investigated it, required a high degree of performance, and the executioner was accountable to the duke, by whom he was appointed. On occasion, a potential executioner was deemed unsuitable. Successful methodology called upon scientific thinking as well as intimate knowledge of anatomy, such as was possessed only by one other profession, that of physician. I don't think it's a coincidence that many descendants of executioners today are in science and engineering professions.
-Vlad
-
I don't think it's a coincidence that many descendants of executioners today are in science and engineering professions.
Where on Earth did you find statistics indicating that the descendants of executioners are more likely to be scientists and engineers? I would LOVE to see that source!!!
-
I was reading on the Spanish Inquisition and it seems they had some very innovative ways to do away with someone. One in particular, the victim was placed in a large wooden keg, the keg was sealed, then sharp metal spikes was driven into the keg, and keg and victim was released down a long, steep and bumpy hill. :o
-
Wow, tripwire. That is QUITE grusome. I'd hate to be the one in the barrel!
-
Man, those Inquisators sure knew how to throw a kegger! >:D
-
I don't think it's a coincidence that many descendants of executioners today are in science and engineering professions.
Where on Earth did you find statistics indicating that the descendants of executioners are more likely to be scientists and engineers? I would LOVE to see that source!!!
I would have to characterize the evidence as anecdotal. It's based on my own observations from reading many sources particular to one region and my correspondence with independent researchers. I would like to do further reading relating to England to see if this observation holds true there or has been noted in reputable sources in English. It makes sense to me, though, given that continual experimentation was necessary (e.g. using precise weights, measures, and angles) combined with a rational temperament and the ability to distance oneself from emotion. These weren't cold, barbaric people. Executioners were sometimes called upon to aid physicians in the case of accidents and in surgery. To cite only one example in the case of a noted person in the sciences, Louis Pasteur had many executioners in his ancestry.
I'm trying to be concise and don't want to go off-topic further. In fact, I would be interested in bringing the discussion around to the execution scenes in DS. Since this thread is getting awfully long, does anyone think a new but related topic on that subject could be started?
-Vlad
-
To cite only one example in the case of a noted person in the sciences, Louis Pasteur had many executioners in his ancestry.
There's a joke about being pastuerized in there somewhere, but I can't quite find it......
-
Spikes in a barrel? Maybe that's where the Brothers Grimm came up with the idea for the ending of The Goose Girl. Gruesome, but one of my favorites.
-
I think all these types of executions are a horrible way to die! Hanging nor beheading is garrenteed to be quick and painless, and to suffer through either would be tortuous in the least! :o