DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '07 I => Topic started by: Nancy on January 09, 2007, 12:23:39 AM
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What if there were no more fests organized by DCP? I know there are MediaCons and other events that are entirely fan-oriented, fan-organized and they do very well. Fans of a particular show or genre all meet in different cities each year or several times a year and have their fan gathering at a hotel. They plan events including artwork displays, fanfic readings and other activities - all fan-driven. No actor guests at all. I've been told by those who attend these events that the weekend is relaxing and enjoyable. Could this be a way to go should there not be anymore fests as we know them for awhile until DS goes back on the air? What do you think?
Nancy
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While that would be better than nothing, Nancy, it wouldn't fit the bill for me. Yes, I enjoy getting together with everyone I've met and been meeting for the fests I've attended. Still, I feel lots of people wouldn't feel it was worth the expense. Too, why it would depend on Dark Shadows returning to the airwaves doesn't make sense to me. I've heard of fan conventions for shows that have been off the air forever. They still go on. That's not a good enough reason, to me, to stop doing festivals. That said, if the powers-that-be don't want to continue it because they don't see it as profitable or are just too burnt out (as I said in another thread), turn it over to other people who would be willing to take it on. It might have to be scaled down in the beginning so those taking over could get their bearings, but I do believe it would take on a life of its own.
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While that would be better than nothing, Nancy, it wouldn't fit the bill for me. Yes, I enjoy getting together with everyone I've met and been meeting for the fests I've attended. Still, I feel lots of people wouldn't feel it was worth the expense.
May I ask why you feel that way? I thought the point was to get together with other fan/friends at these events.
Too, why it would depend on Dark Shadows returning to the airwaves doesn't make sense to me. I've heard of fan conventions for shows that have been off the air forever. They still go on.
I admit that my opinion is pretty based on what I've been told by fest organizers more so than my own observation. I don't fly out to California for the fests (at least I haven't yet) so I have never made any personal observation on attendance when the show was on the air compared to when it was not.
That's not a good enough reason, to me, to stop doing festivals. That said, if the powers-that-be don't want to continue it because they don't see it as profitable or are just too burnt out (as I said in another thread), turn it over to other people who would be willing to take it on. It might have to be scaled down in the beginning so those taking over could get their bearings, but I do believe it would take on a life of its own.
There isn't (and never has been) anything to stop anyone from doing this. For several years there was an annual DS Halloween event organized by fans held on the ground of Lockwood Mansion. Louisville, KY fans had a weekend event for one or two years, I believe, back in the 1980s and other fans have had smaller events. The person who does the DS fest as we know it is involved in it as a business venture, a wing of the DCP publicity machine. If it's not profitable, it's not going to take place since the lack of a profit means having less or no many to fund the next event. Being "burnt out" doesn't have anything to do with a decision to have the fests, IMO. They either assist the DS publilcity machine (and make it profitable enough to break even) or they do not.
I go to the fests on the east coast to meet up with people I've gotten to know over the years and I enjoy the event for that purpose. I've worked with many folks over the years at the fest too.
Nancy
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Are you speaking hypothetically or do you know something we don't... [woryb]
The Festival is a convenient location for everyone to meet at an affordable price (relative to other conventions). As adamsgirl said, my concern with the smaller gatherings is that they might not be worth the expense. (Don't smaller gatherings charge more to make up the difference?) If there were multiple DS gatherings around the country at different times of the year, I might not be able to see all of my friends, who hail from different regions. People attending a gathering in Ohio or Florida probably would not travel to the Los Angeles area a couple of months later, whereas under the current system everybody would go to Brooklyn or Anaheim during the same weekend. Also, are you talking about lumping DS fan activities into existing general conventions, or having small, purely DS-oriented gatherings? I'm not a sci-fi fan, nor a fan of shows like Buffy or Angel so a genre convention would not appeal to me.
On the other hand, I do like the idea of a gathering that travels to different cities around the country instead sticking to Los Angeles and New York. It seems more democratic, and it would give attendees a chance to do more varied sightseeing. Putting more focus on fans and their contributions is also an appealing idea; the fan videos and skits have always been my favorite part of the Festival.
On the whole, I'd rather have the Festivals continue under new management as adamsgirl suggested, but I'd rather have some kind of DS annual activity than none at all.
ProfStokes
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Are you speaking hypothetically or do you know something we don't... [woryb]
No, ProfStokes, I don't know anything you don't on this. :)
The Festival is a convenient location for everyone to meet at an affordable price (relative to other conventions). As adamsgirl said, my concern with the smaller gatherings is that they might not be worth the expense. (Don't smaller gatherings charge more to make up the difference?)
Yes, but several major expenses would not exist. There would not be the very costly venture of flying in actors from the opposite cost and paying their expenses. You would not have to rent as much space.
On the other hand, I do like the idea of a gathering that travels to different cities around the country instead sticking to Los Angeles and New York. It seems more democratic, and it would give attendees a chance to do more varied sightseeing. Putting more focus on fans and their contributions is also an appealing idea; the fan videos and skits have always been my favorite part of the Festival.
Yes, I agree with you. If there is not any concern about having to pay to fly people in from one coast to another as guests, that eliminates the primary concern about being on one coast or the other.
On the whole, I'd rather have the Festivals continue under new management as adamsgirl suggested, but I'd rather have some kind of DS annual activity than none at all.
And there isn't anything to stop someone else from sponsoring a DS event. Some of the reasons previous attempts have failed are (a) the expense involved was not sufficiently researched/realized and (b) the organizing aspects were not done very well. When someone takes on such an event, one of the first things he/she will say is "I didn't realize there was so much involved" and you don't until you are in the thick of it. That said, the first thing any aspiring fest organizer needs to do is get a crew of people they know and can work with who can be counted on to take a job and run with it.
I would attend (and have attended) other DS-oriented fan events.
Nancy
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Weren't the early ShadowCons fan-generated and organized events, and wasn't the current Fest guru/DCP rep just one of another group of fans involved with a smaller local fest (I'm thinking of the one that ran out of Dallas for a few years back in the 80s)? I know that these smaller events also had guests from the original show, though perhaps not on so large a scale. From what I have heard of these events, they were pretty well attended for what they were, and laid the groundwork for the DS Fests. It seems to me that, whatever happens to The DS Fest, there have always been fans eager to be involved in getting together for a celebration of their favorite show, sometimes exclusively with fans, sometimes with show personnel. Who can fill me in on more details?
Petofi
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Thank you for the clarifications on the costs, Nancy.
Too, why it would depend on Dark Shadows returning to the airwaves doesn't make sense to me. I've heard of fan conventions for shows that have been off the air forever. They still go on.
I admit that my opinion is pretty based on what I've been told by fest organizers more so than my own observation. I don't fly out to California for the fests (at least I haven't yet) so I have never made any personal observation on attendance when the show was on the air compared to when it was not.
The show was already off the air by the 2004 Tarrytown Fest; you attended that one. What did you think of attendance there?
The person who does the DS fest as we know it is involved in it as a business venture, a wing of the DCP publicity machine. If it's not profitable, it's not going to take place since the lack of a profit means having less or no many to fund the next event. Being "burnt out" doesn't have anything to do with a decision to have the fests, IMO. They either assist the DS publilcity machine (and make it profitable enough to break even) or they do not.
But it wasn't always that way, was it? From what I understand of what longtime fans/Fest attendees have told me, Marcy Robin and Kathy Resch organized the first DS gatherings, the ShadowCons, later called Festivals. I'm not sure what Jim Pierson's role in the event was at this stage, but later (circa 1991) Dan Curtis hired him, and it was when he became an employee of DCP that he took over and made the Fests a marketing tool. Before that, it sounds like putting them on was a labor of love for the fans. Couldn't it be that way again?
ProfStokes
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as far as the "no actor guests at all" part i don't think we need to fear this much.
even if the "offical" d.c.p. festival is discontinued i'm sure any other organized fan gathering will be seen by numerous actors as an opportunity to push their own businesses.
as long as lara parker has books to sell,kathryn leigh scott cds and diana millay trips to outer mongolia it's in their best interest to attend this type of event.lara probably sold 300 copies of her book at this year's fest if not more.much more than she likely sold doing promotions in book stores across the country.this event guarentees a density of fans they are unlikey to encounter elsewhere.
i know many of the actors attend other types of horror/sci-fi/comic conventions that are not specific to d.s. but they see them as good business opportunities.
in other words invite them and they will come.
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I'm not sure what Jim Pierson's role in the event was at this stage, but later (circa 1991) Dan Curtis hired him, and it was when he became an employee of DCP that he took over and made the Fests a marketing tool.
ProfStokes
I was very young when I started attlending the fests,so I'm a little fuzzy on actual dates. But I do know that Jim was the Festival Chairman at least a few years before he went to work for Dan Curtis. I believe that was actually in 89, so my guess would be that he took over around 84 or 85? It wasn't because of his connection with Dan Curtis that he took over.
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iin other words invite them and they will come.
I tend to agree with you, however, one thing that gets factored into the "good business opportunities" is whether or not their trip is being paid for and how much of their expenses are covered by whatever event they are flying in to attend. I know some of the DS actors will attend a con, if it's local, if they feel they don't have anything to lose but time.
Nancy
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I was very young when I started attlending the fests,so I'm a little fuzzy on actual dates. But I do know that Jim was the Festival Chairman at least a few years before he went to work for Dan Curtis. I believe that was actually in 89, so my guess would be that he took over around 84 or 85?
Pierson became the Festival chairperson in 1986.
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For the record, I don't give a hoot about the performers. I go to see my friends. The most exciting thing that happened to me at the last Fest was getting lost in the subway.....with a girlfriend! [lghy]
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Here's my problem with this. You mentioned, Nancy, that previous attempts had failed for various reasons. I can understand that, but here's my take on it. Previous attempts have failed for only one reason. The people who've been running it (and Midnite says Jim took over in 1986) have not groomed, so to speak, other people to spell them should they choose not to continue such a large, grueling undertaking. I am under no illusion that this is an easy event to organize. However, had there been people waiting in the wings with the wherewithal and knowledge to do this, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. And, please don't get me wrong. I am NOT blaming Jim Pierson. I am simply saying there have been no contingency plans in place, which gives us fans short shrift. What was that movie years ago? "If you build it, they will come"? That's us! We will be there!
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I understand what you are saying, Adamsgirl, and thanks for the clarification. The point I am trying to get across re the fests as we know them is the sole purpose for its existence is to be a publicity arm. If they cannot get the people they require to buy what the dealers bring (and the dealers pay for the space), what MPI brings to sell, etc. then there is not a purpose for it to exist as it does. The so-called "committee" people basically all have stuff to sell at the event. They have little or nothing to do with the before hand work except to assist with dispensing information, peparing to bring equipment, etc. There isn't much to get burnt out about. For Jim, I've seen it as part and parcel of what he does for a living - marketing. If it ceases to be productive in that area, then naturally he would stop doing them especially if the budget involved was spending more money than breaking even. Proceeds go to charity, that's for sure, but there still has to be money to at least cover all expenses. That's just common business practice (which I know you are famliar with yourself). And the fest, even as non-profit entity, is still a business.
Many of those who have been associated with the festival (the so-called committee) for all these years are themselves dealers. That's where they spend most of their time at the festivals. They aren't getting burned out unless they find the profit from sales not happening.
Jim Pierson said in an interview a few years ago, I don't remember which publication carried it, that since Joan Bennett and Jonathan Frid where not present anymore for the fests there was not a big draw anymore. These two people were big big draws. When the news hit that Nancy Barrett was attending her first festival, the attendance for that fest soared. There were over 3,000 in the ballroom when she came on stage for her appearance/performance. There's not enough excitment for lots of people who attended the fests - they have been there/done that. The gatherings do, as you indicated, need an injection of fresh blood and those who have different reasons to do DS gatherings.:)
Nancy
Here's my problem with this. You mentioned, Nancy, that previous attempts had failed for various reasons. I can understand that, but here's my take on it. Previous attempts have failed for only one reason. The people who've been running it (and Midnite says Jim took over in 1986) have not groomed, so to speak, other people to spell them should they choose not to continue such a large, grueling undertaking. I am under no illusion that this is an easy event to organize. However, had there been people waiting in the wings with the wherewithal and knowledge to do this, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. And, please don't get me wrong. I am NOT blaming Jim Pierson. I am simply saying there have been no contingency plans in place, which gives us fans short shrift. What was that movie years ago? "If you build it, they will come"? That's us! We will be there!
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Personally, I would be very dismayed if the fests did not continue. Last year was my first fest, so at least I got to go to one, and if it would be the last then at least I chose to go on the 40th Anniversary. I enjoyed my time there very much, and there seemed to be a lot of first timers there aside from me.
While other people go to the fests to see their DS friends, if there will be another fest this year, I likely will not go for that reason. Why? Because I haven't been to enough fests to have gathered the large list of friends that I would recognize every year. I have friends online that are fans of DS, who I may or may not recognize at the fests, but other than that, there's nothing. I'd go to the fest this year to see the stars again, and I'd probably be able to better enjoy myself since for the 40th Anniversary fest I was running around trying to get all these autographs and take pictures etc etc. I would be able to walk about and do what I please, and not have to care about where, when, why, and how to get into an autograph line.
I think the fest needs more fan-oriented events as well. We don't need the same thing every year--the same clips of DS, the same type of programs, the same stage talks and Q & A sessions. I would become quite bored with that should I go to the next fest. No, what we need is fan stuff. A writing contest. People could write short scripts for the stars to perform on stage. There could be one performance each evening. Not only would this (maybe) help to increase participation, but it would allow the fan to get closer to the stars. Maybe the winners could go over the script with the stars, participate in a read through with them, give them direction should they need it. The stars could sign the respective scripts and they could be auctioned off for the chosen charity of that year. Maybe they'd gain some more money.
Another cool fan event would be to pick fan favorite episodes and have people sign up to play the DS characters. We, the fans, could do the same thing that the stars did this past year--recreate the first and last episodes on stage, or episodes of the fans or committee's choosing.
Reading of fanfiction would be wonderful, and would provide a unique opportunity to get your talents out there. Fan Q&A sessions where FANS get up on stage and answer questions about how they got started as a fan of DS, what DS has meant to them throughout the years, what interests them most about the show, what type of memoribilia they have, etc etc. Fans could be chosen for this special Q&A session by a random lottery drawing, the same type that took place at the banquet last year.
These are just a select few ideas that I've just thought up or added on to while sitting here. Feel free to forward them along to the appropriate people Nancy, I won't mind. I'm always here for further questioning! lol
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The other day, victoriawinters and I were discussing how much we miss the presence of Dennis Patrick at the Fests. I suggested that it would be neat if the Fest ran footage of previous Fest Q&As from when people like Mr. Patrick, Joan Bennett, Michael Stroka, or Clarice Blackburn were still alive. That way new fans who weren't attending when these people were still around can still hear from them and enjoy watching their interactions with the other cast members. If the Fest were to do this, people would be able to at least hear and see Bennett and Frid, though not in person.
It would sure beat yet another screening of DS Bloopers. :P
ProfStokes
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I was very young when I started attlending the fests,so I'm a little fuzzy on actual dates. But I do know that Jim was the Festival Chairman at least a few years before he went to work for Dan Curtis. I believe that was actually in 89, so my guess would be that he took over around 84 or 85?
Pierson became the Festival chairperson in 1986.
CrazyJenny and Midnite, thank you for clarifying the timeline of when Pierson came aboard! So when he became the chairman of the Fests, at that point (1986-1989) they were still primarily fan-run not-for-profit, just-for-fun ventures?
ProfStokes
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I think that's a great idea. Many people taped the Q&As so they are readily available. The late Dave Brown put together what is really a brilliant montage of great fest moments he called "Memories" but I don't know if it was shown beyond one time at the fests.
Nancy
The other day, victoriawinters and I were discussing how much we miss the presence of Dennis Patrick at the Fests. I suggested that it would be neat if the Fest ran footage of previous Fest Q&As from when people like Mr. Patrick, Joan Bennett, Michael Stroka, or Clarice Blackburn were still alive. That way new fans who weren't attending when these people were still around can still hear from them and enjoy watching their interactions with the other cast members. If the Fest were to do this, people would be able to at least hear and see Bennett and Frid, though not in person.
It would sure beat yet another screening of DS Bloopers. :P
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If the Fests really aren't making a profit, why don't they just raise the price of admission a little bit? Not that I want to pay more money, but the $25-30 we've been paying for the whole weekend ever since I started coming in 1990, if not even before that, seems more than reasonable to me, and I couldn't blame them if they had wanted to raise the price a little bit over the years. Also, if some people aren't coming back to the Fests because they feel there isn't enough excitement and they've been there/done that, why don't Jim Pierson and "the committe" use some of the suggestions the fans have made over the years to make the Fests more fun? Several years ago they had questionnaires at the information desk for fans to fill out to make suggestions for things to do and places to have the Fest at, but none of those suggestions were taken up on, and they have the same events year after year. So why not go through the questionnaires and try some new activities to get more people to come?
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If the Fests really aren't making a profit, why don't they just raise the price of admission a little bit? Also, if some people aren't coming back to the Fests because they feel there isn't enough excitement and they've been there/done that, why don't Jim Pierson and "the committe" use some of the suggestions the fans have made over the years to make the Fests more fun? Several years ago they had questionnaires at the information desk for fans to fill out to make suggestions for things to do and places to have the Fest at, but none of those suggestions were taken up on, and they have the same events year after year. So why not go through the questionnaires and try some new activities to get more people to come?
ITA w/this Mary! I've been coming to these things since 1990 and they have always been $25 for the entire weekend. There have even been years where it was $25 for TWO ppl. So I find Nancy's assertion that a profit must be made for them to continue a little ridiculous since not only are they NOT raising prices after at least 16 years, but in some instances charge LESS. I realize that the stars are flown in on the ¢â‚¬Ëœcompany dime' and their expenses are paid, but there must be another source of revenue going on here. It can't ALL be contingent on the admission price or the amount of ppl attending, for the reasons I've mentioned above.
I too am scratching my head over WHY they bothered w/that survey when they did NOTHING w/it. What, I ask you, was the point of asking fans to list the top 10 cities they'd like the Fest to go to, then not use the information?! I find it impossible to believe that a majority of fans stated NYC or LA as their top choice, thus negating the need to move it to another, possibly CHEAPER city! I know many fans who said they'd love for it to go to cities OTHER than the usual two. Some have said DC, Orlando and Chicago to name a few. They could have the Fest go to a ¢â‚¬Ëœsuburb' of any of those cities to keep the costs down rather than having it IN said city where the prices would be higher (hotels, food, etc¢â‚¬¦), but still be close enough for fans to reasonably get TO said cities to site-see etc¢â‚¬¦
The other day, victoriawinters and I were discussing how much we miss the presence of Dennis Patrick at the Fests. I suggested that it would be neat if the Fest ran footage of previous Fest Q&As from when people like Mr. Patrick, Joan Bennett, Michael Stroka, or Clarice Blackburn were still alive. That way new fans who weren't attending when these people were still around can still hear from them and enjoy watching their interactions with the other cast members. If the Fest were to do this, people would be able to at least hear and see Bennett and Frid, though not in person. It would sure beat yet another screening of DS Bloopers.
Excellent suggesstion Professor! I would love to see a panel for Clarice as I never got to meet her. Who wants to see the bloopers AGAIN!? Especially since most of us own either the VHS or DVD copy of it and can watch it anytime we like in the comfort of our own homes?
We don't need the same thing every year--the same clips of DS, the same type of programs, the same stage talks and Q & A sessions.
Totally agree Brandon! I for one am sick to death of Marcy Robin's self-serving ¢â‚¬Ëœfan panel' which is neither informative nor entertaining. I'd rather sleep in on Sunday morning, LOL! Your suggestions were good ones and should be at least considered by Pierson and company.
The so-called "committee"/ those who have been associated with the festival (the so-called committee)
Question, why do you keep saying the ¢â‚¬Ëœso-called committee', as if one doesn't exist. For the record, that's how they refer to themselves in the Fest program. Maybe you've never read yours, but on page one it lists, FEST COMMITTEE-Jim Pierson, Chairman, Marcy Robin/Kathy Resch et all, Guest Relations, and so one. We the fans did not come up w/this phrase, they did.
Now, having had my say on all this, why are we even discussing the possibility of there being no more Fests? Didn't we establish in another thread that there WILL be a Fest this year? Didn't Charles Ellis post that he heard from Jim Pierson himself that plans were being finalized as we speak and an announcement is forthcoming? ;)
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I quite like the idea mentioned by ProfStokes about playing Q&A sessions from the past. That would be a great treat, especially since some of the stars like Joan and Clarice don't even have interviews on the DS DVDs (to my knowledge anyway), so it would be great to get some insight about the show to them, especially since many of the other stars speak so highly of them all the time.
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I've been coming to these things since 1990 and they have always been $25 for the entire weekend. There have even been years where it was $25 for TWO ppl. So I find Nancy's assertion that a profit must be made for them to continue a little ridiculous since not only are they NOT raising prices after at least 16 years, but in some instances charge LESS. I realize that the stars are flown in on the ¢â‚¬Ëœcompany dime' and their expenses are paid, but there must be another source of revenue going on here. It can't ALL be contingent on the admission price or the amount of ppl attending, for the reasons I've mentioned above.
Perhaps not all attendees can afford to pay a higher fee for the event? I've seen guest rooms at past Fests with fans sleeping on the floor to save money.
Question, why do you keep saying the ¢â‚¬Ëœso-called committee', as if one doesn't exist. For the record, that's how they refer to themselves in the Fest program. Maybe you've never read yours, but on page one it lists, FEST COMMITTEE-Jim Pierson, Chairman, Marcy Robin/Kathy Resch et all, Guest Relations, and so one. We the fans did not come up w/this phrase, they did.
I know you directed your question to Nancy, but I recall reading these telling comments from another committee member a while back (about the announcement of a "Farewell Festival"):
Also, I've seen several posts that seem to suggest that this was a decision of the Dark Shadows Festival "Committee". There is no "committee". There were never any "committee meetings". At one point, in the program books, the term "committee" was changed to "staff". The Festival decisions are made by Jim Pierson and Ann Wilson alone. Many of the Festival "Staff" have long thought that the Festivals did indeed need a reinvention and made this known to Mr. Pierson. However, no noticeable changes ever came.
which gave me the impression that the powers of the Festival Staff/Committee are quite limited, making it a so called committee, but not "so called" because the Fest Committee doesn't officially exist.
Also, can we please dial down the tone of this discussion a bit?
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Perhaps not all attendees can afford to pay a higher fee for the event? I've seen guest rooms at past Fests with fans sleeping on the floor to save money.
I was referring the cost to get in to the Fest, not hotel room rates. Getting at least one roomate, or more, is definately the way to defray room costs. And to cut down on food costs, don't eat at the hotel if at all possible! Go out and find something cheaper. ;) Being one who has both slept on the floor and a roll-away I can tell you it's worth it to save money. ;)
Question, why do you keep saying the ¢â‚¬Ëœso-called committee', as if one doesn't exist. For the record, that's how they refer to themselves in the Fest program. Maybe you've never read yours, but on page one it lists, FEST COMMITTEE-Jim Pierson, Chairman, Marcy Robin/Kathy Resch et all, Guest Relations, and so one. We the fans did not come up w/this phrase, they did.
I know you directed your question to Nancy, but I recall reading these telling comments from another committee member a while back (about the announcement of a "Farewell Festival"):
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which gave me the impression that the powers of the Festival Staff/Committee are quite limited, making it a so called committee, but not "so called" because the Fest Committee doesn't officially exist.
True, they don't 'meet' and discuss the next year's Fest. But they used to put in those programs that they were a committee. They indeed may now call themselves 'staff', I haven't looked at a program in about 10 years, LOL! ;)
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I thought of that too, Buzz -- up the price of admission. It's awfully low, not that I mind, but I would certainly be willing to spend more. Room rates are what they are, and having roommates does help defry that cost. I usually room with four other women, so it helps out a lot!
I, too, had heard from Jim Pierson about this, as was posted on another thread. He said, as Charles said, plans were not finalized but an announcement would be made shortly. There was no mention of no fest.
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ITA w/this Mary! I've been coming to these things since 1990 and they have always been $25 for the entire weekend. There have even been years where it was $25 for TWO ppl. So I find Nancy's assertion that a profit must be made for them to continue a little ridiculous since not only are they NOT raising prices after at least 16 years, but in some instances charge LESS. I realize that the stars are flown in on the ¢â‚¬Ëœcompany dime' and their expenses are paid, but there must be another source of revenue going on here. It can't ALL be contingent on the admission price or the amount of ppl attending, for the reasons I've mentioned above.
You say this but offer no other source of income for the fests besides admission.
I too am scratching my head over WHY they bothered w/that survey when they did NOTHING w/it. What, I ask you, was the point of asking fans to list the top 10 cities they'd like the Fest to go to, then not use the information?! I find it impossible to believe that a majority of fans stated NYC or LA as their top choice, thus negating the need to move it to another, possibly CHEAPER city! I know many fans who said they'd love for it to go to cities OTHER than the usual two. Some have said DC, Orlando and Chicago to name a few. They could have the Fest go to a ¢â‚¬Ëœsuburb' of any of those cities to keep the costs down rather than having it IN said city where the prices would be higher (hotels, food, etc¢â‚¬¦), but still be close enough for fans to reasonably get TO said cities to site-see etc¢â‚¬¦
I agree with you. It seems silly to ask for this kind of information and then do nothing with it.
The so-called "committee"/ those who have been associated with the festival (the so-called committee)
Question, why do you keep saying the ¢â‚¬Ëœso-called committee', as if one doesn't exist. For the record, that's how they refer to themselves in the Fest program. Maybe you've never read yours, but on page one it lists, FEST COMMITTEE-Jim Pierson, Chairman, Marcy Robin/Kathy Resch et all, Guest Relations, and so one. We the fans did not come up w/this phrase, they did.
You just answered your own question. A "committee" doesn't exist yet that is what it's been called for many years. I don't know about your personal experience but when I have been on a committee for an organization, it meets or at least speak regularly about upcoming events, has input, things are voted on, etc. I assure you this doesn't happen with the DS Fest "committee." I've been on it so I know.
ow, having had my say on all this, why are we even discussing the possibility of there being no more Fests? Didn't we establish in another thread that there WILL be a Fest this year? Didn't Charles Ellis post that he heard from Jim Pierson himself that plans were being finalized as we speak and an announcement is forthcoming? ;)
Maybe you do not recall that a short time ago, Jim Pierson indicated that there would not be anymore and then after an outcry another one was scheduled. The announcements are coming later and later and I wondered what recourse fans would take if another festival as we know it was not planned.
Nancy
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Perhaps not all attendees can afford to pay a higher fee for the event? I've seen guest rooms at past Fests with fans sleeping on the floor to save money.
Exactly. Jim Pierson told me this not once but several times that he needed to keep the price down in order for most fans to attend. When you have middle-aged people sleeping six in a room or on the floor, clearly they have just enough money to come to the event and enjoy themselves but that's it.
Also, I've seen several posts that seem to suggest that this was a decision of the Dark Shadows Festival "Committee". There is no "committee". There were never any "committee meetings". At one point, in the program books, the term "committee" was changed to "staff". The Festival decisions are made by Jim Pierson and Ann Wilson alone. Many of the Festival "Staff" have long thought that the Festivals did indeed need a reinvention and made this known to Mr. Pierson. However, no noticeable changes ever came.
which gave me the impression that the powers of the Festival Staff/Committee are quite limited, making it a so called committee, but not "so called" because the Fest Committee doesn't officially exist.
You are right, Selby. I didn't start this thread to criticize the festival, Jim or anyone else - I just wondered what alternative course fans might look at should they need to since we have already had one scare that another fest would not be happening, that's all.
Nancy
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True, they don't 'meet' and discuss the next year's Fest. But they used to put in those programs that they were a committee. They indeed may now call themselves 'staff', I haven't looked at a program in about 10 years, LOL! ;)
Hence the term "so-called committee." ;D
Nancy
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You say this but offer no other source of income for the fests besides admission.
Not sure what you mean by this statement. How would I know what these other sources are? It's not like I have Jim's ear. But there have to be some because there's no way the Fest pays all it's bills solely on that admission price. Sorry, not possilbe. :-
I've been on it so I know.
First you say there's no committe, then say you're on it. Which is it?
Maybe you do not recall that a short time ago, Jim Pierson indicated that there would not be anymore and then after an outcry another one was scheduled.
No, I *do* remember. The only reason they are still going on is because the stars, KLS in particular, had a fit in 2003! But we're not talking about that Fest, we're talking about this one. Why bring up a different topic?
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You say this but offer no other source of income for the fests besides admission.
Not sure what you mean by this statement. How would I know what these other sources are? It's not like I have Jim's ear. But there have to be some because there's no way the Fest pays all it's bills solely on that admission price. Sorry, not possilbe. :-
Well, you indicated that my "assertion" was a "little ridiculous" in spite of the fact I have been involved with the fests for years and you have not. You said that my assertion was a "little ridiculous" but offered no countering reason or information and you now admit that you have no facts to offer on your own to refute my statement you chose to take issue with. I'm sure you didn't take issue with it simply to take issue so I asked the question. ;)
I've been on it so I know.
First you say there's no committe, then say you're on it. Which is it?
"I've been on it." Iindicates past tense; something that used to be the case. One of the reasons I got off it was because I didn't want to be called a member of a "committee" that wasn't a functional/real one. Committee is spelled with two "e"s, by the way, not one.;)
No, I *do* remember. The only reason they are still going on is because the stars, KLS in particular, had a fit in 2003! But we're not talking about that Fest, we're talking about this one. Why bring up a different topic?
Buzz, go back and read the beginning of this thread and the topic title as well. The topic is what would fans see as an alternative if there were no more fests. That's been the topic on this thread. We were not discussing this fest at all but what would happen and what could fans do should they stop which has been threatened before. Please be sure you yourself are on topic before telling others they are not. It creates unnecessary friction and gives the impression you just want to fight which I am sure is not the case :D
Nancy
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Yes, they were. I didn't attend a fest until 1985 when Maria Barbosa was the chairman. In 1986 the reigns were handed over to Jim.
One of the big changes for the festival attendees was getting access to material such as old commercials DS actors did and other items that was possible via DCP contacts and the fact it was also a production company. If the average person tries to get some material from the golden age of TV or even some films she can expect to pay a hefty price for it if it can be obtained at all by someone not associated with a production company. When Jim started working with DCP material was obtained and shown at the fests that probably would not have been possible otherwise.
That said, any future Fests that are fan run would be able to license some material to show at the fest if that is what they wanted to do. It just might cost a lot.
Nancy
CrazyJenny and Midnite, thank you for clarifying the timeline of when Pierson came aboard! So when he became the chairman of the Fests, at that point (1986-1989) they were still primarily fan-run not-for-profit, just-for-fun ventures?
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Another cool fan event would be to pick fan favorite episodes and have people sign up to play the DS characters. We, the fans, could do the same thing that the stars did this past year--recreate the first and last episodes on stage, or episodes of the fans or committee's choosing.
I think that is a terrific idea!
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The problem here appears to be twofold. First off, points already made seem to have been lost on some. For example, no one said there was no committee. Other comments have also been misunderstood though they seem quite clear. And the discussion about the Fests possibly losing money has already been covered in another topic. I suggest that posters please carefully (re)read previous replies before responding themselves.
The second issue is the absence of netiquette in some responses. Please be respectful of other posters' opinions and experiences. Further personal attacks will result in an official warning.
From the Forum Guidelines, which all members agreed to during the registration process:
Debate should be kept on a non-personal basis. Flaming and name-calling will not be allowed. It is never appropriate to attack, criticize, or condemn another poster. Retaliation, sharp reproof and cynicism are to be avoided. Disagreement is a natural occurrence, but as stated above, should be done in a respectful manner. Likewise, these disagreements should not be continued beyond the normal limits of interesting discourse. Argument for argument's sake is not welcome.
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But we're not talking about that Fest, we're talking about this one. Why bring up a different topic?
None of the mods feel it was off topic.
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Thanks, Midnite.
I'm interested in hearing any ideas you have for an alternative to the fests should it become necessary at some point.
Nancy
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Thanks Teresalita!
I'd love to particpate in something like that, but I don't know if I could get over stage fright or not! lol! Sometime I get emabarassed without even knowing it and my face gets all red. Maybe if I held a script to look at it wouldn't be so bad....
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Thanks Teresalita!
I'd love to particpate in something like that, but I don't know if I could get over stage fright or not! lol! Sometime I get emabarassed without even knowing it and my face gets all red. Maybe if I held a script to look at it wouldn't be so bad....
I'm sure you would be just fine. Profstokes could give you some pointers. She was once a newbie up on that stage but now just a seasoned pro.
PS I get embarresed easily too and my face gets all red without knowing it. I hate it but some people tell me it is charming. Go figure! ::)
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For the record, I don't give a hoot about the performers. I go to see my friends. The most exciting thing that happened to me at the last Fest was getting lost in the subway.....with a girlfriend! [lghy]
i'm with you Rainey in fact if anyone is ever on the east coast (esp boston or Newport) i'd love to plan a get together
hate to say it but with the show 40 years old the actors are getting to be far fewer and i'd rather meet
friends from the forum anyway :)
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Brandon, I think you will be fine on stage. Everyone is nervous the first few times on stage (some professional performers never lose be nervous) but you only have to remember that the audience can't wait to see what you are going to do. They want to see you do well and are very encouraging. The DS fan audiences are really very supportive of fan performers.
Nancy
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Brandon, I think you will be fine on stage. Everyone is nervous the first few times on stage (some professional performers never lose be nervous) but you only have to remember that the audience can't wait to see what you are going to do. They want to see you do well and are very encouraging. The DS fan audiences are really very supportive of fan performers.
That's so true, Nancy. When the costume gala is being performed, the audience realizes people are putting themselves out there, and they truly do appreciate it. There was only one time I thought people were being really rude to a guy who was doing something in a gala. It seems this man does the same thing every year, and the people who were laughing at him were pointing that out. HOWEVER, it should be noted that they were drunk and obnoxious. They had carried their drinks in with them from the bar. Obviously, they were pretty tanked up. The guy they were making fun of, much to my disgust, was handicapped. How rude is that? Fortunately, at the two fests after that one, I never saw those people again. Good riddance! And that is NOT the norm. I find the audiences to be supportive, warm and very encouraging.
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If you ever see that kind of behavior where someone is harrassing another person in that manner, please seek out a volunteer or security volunteer and tell them. People have been tossed out for that kind of behavior.
Nancy
That's so true, Nancy. When the costume gala is being performed, the audience realizes people are putting themselves out there, and they truly do appreciate it. There was only one time I thought people were being really rude to a guy who was doing something in a gala. It seems this man does the same thing every year, and the people who were laughing at him were pointing that out. HOWEVER, it should be noted that they were drunk and obnoxious. They had carried their drinks in with them from the bar. Obviously, they were pretty tanked up. The guy they were making fun of, much to my disgust, was handicapped. How rude is that? Fortunately, at the two fests after that one, I never saw those people again. Good riddance! And that is NOT the norm. I find the audiences to be supportive, warm and very encouraging.
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Well, maybe if they have an event like that I might sign up, maybe if the fest is on this coast again this year. I tend to talk myself out of things (lol I HATE it) but once I signed up and was committed I'd HAVE to do it because I'm not one to let go of my committments.
Anyway, I count two maybe's and a might up there. If the two maybe's are met, then I'll probably sign up lol. I do hope the fest comes back to the east coast soon!
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Well, maybe if they have an event like that I might sign up, maybe if the fest is on this coast again this year. I tend to talk myself out of things (lol I HATE it) but once I signed up and was committed I'd HAVE to do it because I'm not one to let go of my committments.
Anyway, I count two maybe's and a might up there. If the two maybe's are met, then I'll probably sign up lol. I do hope the fest comes back to the east coast soon!
I'm sure you would have a great time doing it so just work on not talking yourself out of it. I am also hoping for an east coast fest.
Teresa :)
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If you ever see that kind of behavior where someone is harrassing another person in that manner, please seek out a volunteer or security volunteer and tell them. People have been tossed out for that kind of behavior.
Oh, you can bet I will. As it was, though, I was waiting to go onstage. These jerks were sitting right in the first row. I felt sure that perhaps Marcy would say something, but she didn't. Then again, that thing is such a bear to coordinate, I can understand why she might not have addressed it at the time. To tell you the truth, I almost said something to them myself. I thought better of it since confronting drunks is never a good idea, and it wasn't my place anyway. However, in the future, if the fests continue and I see something like that, well, now I know what to do.
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Well, some people are not comfortable with confrontation and while I do not enjoy confrontation, I have absolutely no problem confronting someone if necessary on line or off. All anyone had to do was to tell the rude drunks they needed to stop the rude behavior or be shown the door. FYI, the hotel security does the actual removing of people and they know how to do it.:) We just point them out. If in the future you are not happy with a response from someone about a situation, find me or tell Jim when you can. Fortunately, these situations do not happen very often. :D
Nancy
Oh, you can bet I will. As it was, though, I was waiting to go onstage. These jerks were sitting right in the first row. I felt sure that perhaps Marcy would say something, but she didn't. Then again, that thing is such a bear to coordinate, I can understand why she might not have addressed it at the time. To tell you the truth, I almost said something to them myself. I thought better of it since confronting drunks is never a good idea, and it wasn't my place anyway. However, in the future, if the fests continue and I see something like that, well, now I know what to do.
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Since Dan Curtis is dead I think the furture of the DS Fest is in the hands of his family members, they own the rights now. They may close everything down and that would inculde Jim's job. I pray this dosen't happen I look foward to seeing my friends each year. And I also believe that if there is money to be made by the stars books and etc those stars will try the hardest to have other fest's. We all just have to wait and see and hope for the best.
Janet
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Well, at least now one aspect of all this was been settled. When and IF it is ever announced the regular fests have ceased, Midnite has graciously offered to host the immense fan gathering at her house. I think it's damn nice of her, don't you? >:D
Nancy
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I thought she said she would play host, yes - but I understood it was supposed to held at YOUR house, Nancy. ;)
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Oh, I see. You are trying to get out of your earlier promise to have the second year at your place. Sneaky, Mr. MB, very sneaky. 8)
I thought she said she would play host, yes - but I understood it was supposed to held at YOUR house, Nancy. ;)
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Again I believe you may have misunderstood. What I said was that hosting a gathering at my place is beyond nowhere near likely when you've generously offered your place in perpetuity because I wouldn't dream to ever try to steal your limelight. :D And, of course, your charitability in fandom is legend - no mere mortal could ever possibly hope to even live up to a fraction of it, much less outdo it.
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You're right. I clearly misunderstood. [91a2] [eviltongue] [evil7] [evil6]
Nancy
Again I believe you may have misunderstood. What I said was that hosting a gathering at my place is beyond nowhere near likely when you've generously offered your place in perpetuity because I wouldn't dream to ever try to steal your limelight. :D And, of course, your charitability in fandom is legend - no mere mortal could ever possibly hope to even live up to a fraction of it, much less outdo it.
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[haironend]
I'm gonna need a LOT of wine. [tngb]
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I'm gonna need a LOT of wine.
Oh, don't worry. As the host site, and per her immense generousity that no mere mortal can ever live up to, Nancy will be providing ALL supplies, including liquor. [wink2]
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As the host site, and per her immense generousity that no mere mortal can ever live up to, Nancy will be providing ALL supplies, including liquor. [wink2]
Cool! :D
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Okay, if Nancy supplies the booze, I'll do the food -- does everyone like Italian? LOL!
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Okay, if Nancy supplies the booze, I'll do the food -- does everyone like Italian? LOL!
We won't have to wait an hour for our entree will we? ;)
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No, as a matter of fact. The MB and Midnite will be waiting tables and move quite deftly from the dining area and the kitchen.:)
I know someone who will donate the booze just to get ProfStokes' autograph. He is a big fan of her performances at the fest - Adamsgirl too.
Jonathan Frid has agreed to dance on the tables while people wait to be served. This is gonna be a big event, I'm telling ya!
Nancy
Okay, if Nancy supplies the booze, I'll do the food -- does everyone like Italian? LOL!
We won't have to wait an hour for our entree will we? ;)
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I probably shouldn't speak for Midnite, but I suspect that she, like me, would gladly serve the food IF Frid is going to dance on the tables. It would be the least we could do. :D
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I probably shouldn't speak for Midnite, but I suspect that she, like me, would gladly serve the food IF Frid is going to dance on the tables. It would be the least we could do. :D
Yeah if that happens I will be more than happy to clean the joint up afterwards.
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I would gladly help clean up after the event. However, I don't know about Mr. Frid dancing on the tables. I don't want his foot in my potato salad.
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Ooh! A floor show by Frid! I am SO there! LOL!
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I would gladly help clean up after the event. However, I don't know about Mr. Frid dancing on the tables. I don't want his foot in my potato salad.
Oh well, if you're going to be fussy . . . ;D
Nancy
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I probably shouldn't speak for Midnite, but I suspect that she, like me, would gladly serve the food IF Frid is going to dance on the tables. It would be the least we could do. :D
I think one of the most fun events we could have is to put Frid and Karlen on stage together - no other actors - and let them entertain us. It would be a hoot. These guys were very close friends when DS was on and not a festival goes by that Frid doesn't ask with a twinkle in his eye about Karlen's antics. That would be a fun event. There is even a photo of them dancing together at a California fan convention - one of the earlier fan conventions in the 1980s.
Nancy
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I would gladly help clean up after the event. However, I don't know about Mr. Frid dancing on the tables. I don't want his foot in my potato salad.
I've never known the Fest to serve potato salad at a banquet. Wish they would though, LOVE potato salad. ;) I must say though, I've gotten the vegetarian meal the last 2 banquets I've gone too, even though I *am* a carnivore, and they were fantastic! Especially last years, oy-vey it was good! ;) I started getting them because I got tired of the rubberized chicken entre. :(
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I probably shouldn't speak for Midnite, but I suspect that she, like me, would gladly serve the food IF Frid is going to dance on the tables. It would be the least we could do. :D
It should be known that Frid is a very good dancer though I don't know if he has done table top dancing. Would be a good question to ask him I think. He studied with Martha Graham at one point; doesn't think big guys should move or be clumsy.
Nancy
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I would gladly help clean up after the event. However, I don't know about Mr. Frid dancing on the tables. I don't want his foot in my potato salad.
Seriously if I decided to sponsor some event I would employ my mother to make cole slaw or potato salad; simply exquisite food the way she makes them.
Nancy