DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '07 I => Topic started by: Evan Hanley on January 07, 2007, 06:38:51 PM
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Is there any fans of the dreamcurse out there? I think the dreamcurse is so brillent. I dont know if i would have picked sam evans,mrs johnson, and david. i would have picked maybe joe and liz.
Evan Hanley
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The Draem curse was one of the few
original ideas the show did, one that to my knowledge
was not mined from classic literature or a horror movie.
It was a GREAT idea.
I do love the Dream Curse riddle.
Too bad the show didn't have the budget to make the dreams as scary looking to the audience as they were to the characters.
David
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I think the dream curse idea would've been much, much better if the dream wasn't repetitive, with each dreamer having a different dream. I would rather they had made each dream individual to the person having it.
Seeing the same dream over and over again got old really fast.
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I think the dream curse idea would've been much, much better if the dream wasn't repetitive, with each dreamer having a different dream. I would rather they had made each dream individual to the person having it.
Seeing the same dream over and over again got old really fast.
But they DID have individual dreams. Only the format of the dream "curse" was the same from victim to victim....
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I love the Dream Curse, very clever and original. I agree w/David though, they weren't scary, that were rather comical to me, especially when Willie has it, LOL! ;)
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LOVE the Dream Curse! But it did get a little toooo long and repetative. The concept was super, though.
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But they DID have individual dreams. Only the format of the dream "curse" was the same from victim to victim....
I don't consider them individual because the dreams are 99% the same: someone knocked on the door and beckoned them. They each saw the same thing the others had seen behind the doors, with the only exception being the last one. The speech is the same. They scream. There's not enough difference, and that's why I find it so boring.
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I liked seeing what different actors did with the same scene. Grayson Hall made a great beckoner, and Carolyn and Willie were the most fantastically scared of all the dreamers.
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I enjoyed the Dream Curse, even though none of the dreams were really all that frightening. Though I will admit as fake-looking as it was the [spoiler]spider in David's dream[/spoiler] really gets under my skin since I hate spiders!
Did anyone notice though that they used the first tune of Josette's theme from the black and white episodes in a couple of the dreams then went right back to the new one introduced into the 1795 storyline? Wonder why they did that....
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I enjoyed the dream curse. It was a clever concept.
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I think this was a clever concept as well, but the same dreams over and over did become quite boring at a point. Same thing as Dr. Lang's tape and Adam's sweater. YOU JUST GET TIRED OF SEEING IT!!!!
Maybe if the dream were more individualized it would've been able to withstand the test of time.
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I think the Dream Curse dragged on for too long but there were segments that I thought were very good in the "horror" genre. I particularly thought David's dream was very scary but then I hate [spoiler]insects![/spoiler] I thought the props were comical, unreal looking, but the thought of getting caught [spoiler]in a giant spider web and the host comes to EAT you[/spoiler]is a nightmare!
Some of the actors were very comical when they were trying to be frightened and that made me LOL. The idea of a "dream curse" is original and in that aspect, a good idea for DS.
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I hate insects!
Actually, spiders aren't insects, they are aratnids (sp?) ;)
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The concept was very clever, but I agree with most of you that it got old fast. However, given the way it ended, with Prof. Stokes finally engaging Angelique, it made sense. Too bad, though, we had to sit through it again and again and again.
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Actually, spiders aren't insects, they are aratnids (sp?) ;)
Can I call them bugs then? :-X
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Can I call them bugs then? :-X
Hmm, don't know. Anyone know? 8)
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Let's stay on topic. Please. Thank you.
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they are aratnids (sp?) ;)
Arachnids. Can anyone name the DS character called as much fun as a bagful of spiders, and who said it? I'd bet that someone here can. ;)
I wonder why they didn't include a dream about snakes. Now that would freak ME out.
There was a fairly recent discussion that named possible literary sources (one became a 50s movie) for the dream curse idea.
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Can anyone name the DS character called as much fun as a bagful of spiders,and who said it? I'd bet that someone here can. ;)
Buzz Hackett was called as much fun as a bagful of spiders and it was said by Joe Haskell.
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Yes, verusselle!
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The concept was very clever, but I agree with most of you that it got old fast. However, given the way it ended, with Prof. Stokes finally engaging Angelique, it made sense. Too bad, though, we had to sit through it again and again and again.
I am very fond of the Dream Curse and it is one of my most vivid memories of watching the show originally as a kid. I also agree that the climax was Prof Stokes [spoiler]challenging Angelique after entering the realm of the Dream Curse.[/spoiler] That sequence was one of the most important in establishing Stokes not just as a major player, but his razor sharp wit, intelligence and even his good taste.
Michael [read3]
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I also agree that the climax was Prof Stokes [spoiler]challenging Angelique after entering the realm of the Dream Curse.[/spoiler]
Precursor to the Nightmare on Elm Street movies I think. ;)
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My favorite storyline. An interesting one in that:
[spoiler]1) It's like a theme and variations.
2) In a systematic way, it symbolizes the struggle with one's darkest fears.
3) The 'Dream' sequence music is a Dark Shadows classic.
4) The darkness and fear that runs through the storyline makes the end of the storyline - the breaking of the Curse through the life force of Adam - in a death-resurrection plot progression (Episodes 535-538) - a significant, symbolic moment, marking the end of the Barnabas-vampire-curse trilogy*.
* a) The first part consisting of Barnabas' introduction to DS in the 1967 storyline.
b) The second part consisting of the 1795 storyline, in which the origins of Barnabas' vampire curse are revealed.
c) The third part consisting of Vicki's return to the present, Barnabas' cure from vampirism through Dr. Lang's
experiment, Angelique/Cassandra's efforts to return the Curse to Barnabas through the Dream Curse ( causing
havoc with the lives of those around him through the ordeal of the Dream, just as in 1795 her original curse
included the destruction of all whom Barnabas loved or that loved him.)
5) Barnabas' Dream , which was supposed to end with Barnabas encountering at the end of his dream a "dark and terrifying thing" which would "turn his blood to ice!" instead ended with him finding - nothing- at the climax of the dream. Another significant moment in Barnabas' dream happens earlier on when he, expecting his end, turns to his beckoner, Cassandra, and says as she opens the door to the Dream Curse Room, "Cassandra, I no longer fear you, or what is in that room."
6) The mutual selflessness of Barnabas and Vicki is moving also: Vicki, unwilling to let the curse pass on to Barnabas, refuses to tell the dream to Barnabas, even though it means her continued suffering, which each recurrence of the Dream more terrifying than the last. Barnabas, unwilling to let Vicki go on suffering the Dream, compels her to tell him the Dream, even though it may mean his destruction.
7) This storyline marks a significant change in Barnabas: For the first time, we see him caring more for another than for himself. Even when Julia is urging him to flee so that he will escape the Curse, he reminds her of the suffering that Vicki will endure if she can't unburden herself and tell him the Dream. He tells Julia that he will stay and face his destiny.[/spoiler]
One thing I would have liked NOT to see in this storyline are some of the obvious bloopers that happened a few times with the prop settings, but the storyline is still one that I watch again and again anyway. Unfortunately in those days, Dark Shadows was on a limited budget and filming schedule.
As for Joe and Liz: They didn't experience the Dream, but they did experience terrifying dreams, so they're honorary members of the club at any rate:
Joe's double-trouble dream in Episode 658 is one of DS' most terrifying dream moments. Joe, like the Dream Curse victims, is trapped on every side in his dream.
Liz gets her turn to have the familiar psychedelic dream pattern visit her in Episode 576, when Angelique appears in her dream and causes her to dream about herself in a coffin and being buried alive ( the theme of finding one's own death had been encountered by Dream Curse victims Carolyn and Sam ).
Hardheaded, pragmatic Roger gets his invite into DS Dreamland when he sees the familiar skull-with-eyeballs in his dream about Vicki's wedding, and is compelled the next day to tell his dream to a Vicki, skeptical about his premonition of her dying if she marries Jeff Clark.
Others important characters who didn't have the Dream ( or any dreams for that matter):
Angelique (who was entirely on the giving end of nightmares - in THAT sense she was a giver and not a taker)
Cassandra, whom Nicholas snidely told " It would be justice, my dear, if YOU should have the dream." when ragging on her for taking so long to carry out the Dream Curse.
Nicholas himself, of course, had no dreams.
Is there any fans of the dreamcurse out there? I think the dreamcurse is so brillent. I dont know if i would have picked sam evans,mrs johnson, and david. i would have picked maybe joe and liz.
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When I saw the Dream Curse during the original run as a child, it had elements which absolutely scared the zaboombas out of me. But then, I was a ten-year-old kid, and things were scarier back then. I remember, for example, watching the scene where the spook of Jeremiah tries to do in Angelique in the cemetery and I watched it with my fingers covering my eyes. By today's standards, of course and probably unfortunately, the scary stuff is gone and it is repetitive. I mean, how many times can you look at that stuffed animal head? But I still love their effort, and everything they were trying to achieve and quite often successfully did.
Gerard
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A reminder: Spoiler warnings for plot revelations are MUCH appreciated by Forum cousins who have not seen the entire series. :)
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Thanks for your great summation, TNickey2003. I think you make excellent points.
Michael [vampy]
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I was surprised they used filmed images of real bats for Mrs. Johnson's dream instead of the bat on a string.
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I can't read this thread yet, since the first dream has just happened on my tapes, but expect me back soon....
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Angelique definitely knows how to dish out the fear, and in a ruthless way in that she doesn't even care if children suffer. >:(
At the beginning of the dream curse, I enjoyed it when Angelique came to barnabas and informed him of what was to happen. She is giving him a glimpse of the terror that will eventually befall him, and yet again he is made to feel helpless in the face of her scheming.
Mrs. Johnson showed very touching and true loyalty towards David when she had to resist telling him the dream, even though she was so afraid. She did everything in her power to keep it from him, even going so far as leaving Colinwood to visit her sister in order to keep David safe. I really admired her for that! 8)
As much as I love Julia's character, she didn't seem particularly concerned for those who had experienced the dream. Poor Willie was told several times to forget the dream and get on with the business of finding Adam. She tells Mrs. Johnson that she will simply have to leave Collinwood in order to keep David safe. But she wasn't willing to do something as drastic as leaving Collinwood to keep the dream from spreading. The reason this behavior annoys me, is because Julia has had the dream. She knows all too well the fear of it, and yet she seems so uncaring towards Willie and Mrs. Johnson. Although in her defense, she did show some sympathy towards Mrs. Johnson.
I thoroughly enjoyed professor Stokes during this story line. He was absolutely brilliant in handling the curse, and his biting wit is great! I especially loved the twist when Angelique attempts to convince him that he's Ben Stokes, and professor Stokes coolly tells her he isn't Ben and can't be bullied. Great stuff!
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Yes, Angelique isn't afraid to torture and torment children, she already proved that [spoiler]back in 1795, when she stuck pins in Sarah's doll, making Sarah very sick, and with her curse, which she stated everyone who loves Barnabas will die, Sarah falls ill again and dies in Barnabas' arms.[/spoiler]
[furious] As far as I am concerned that was Angelique's most awful act.
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Yes, Angelique isn't afraid to torture and torment children, she already proved that [spoiler]back in 1795, when she stuck pins in Sarah's doll, making Sarah very sick, and with her curse, which she stated everyone who loves Barnabas will die, Sarah falls ill again and dies in Barnabas' arms.[/spoiler]
[furious] As far as I am concerned that was Angelique's most awful act.
I completely agree with this! To use and exploit a child for your own personal reasons is inexcusable, and Angelique should never have involved any child in her revenge. After all, they're innocent, and not even desperation, or whatever it is that motivates Angelique can excuse her for harming them. >:(
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I agree that [spoiler]Angelique's torment of little Sarah is the worst thing she ever did but what may be a close second is what she did to Sam Evans. Rendering that poor man permanently blind so that he could no longer paint is just beyond cruel.[/spoiler]
As for the dream curse, I liked it and didn't find it at all boring, the only parts that were a bit hard to take were the fake props which scared everyone. But they were supposed to be accepted as the real thing. Now if Angelique had had me in her sequence my door would have revealed a raging fire, which is my worst fear.
John Karlen's acting when Willie had the dream was amazing and I loved it.
The Professor's engaging Angelique was brilliant but he made a fatal mistake afterward when he [spoiler]still ended up revealing to Sam just enough that Sam ended up having the dream anyway. Though he didn't feel compelled to tell him, over two visits I think, he ended up telling him just enough. Otherwise Sam wouldn't have had it. So the Professor's plan didn't end up working. Still I'm glad that in the long run Barnabas did not revert to becoming a vampire again.[/spoiler]
Alondra
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[spoiler]But Cassandra was the one who got the dream curse starting again. Remember when she visited Sam at the hospital, she tricked him into drinking some water which she drugged which caused him to fall asleep and have the dream.
I think the dream curse went something like this: the last person to have the dream had to tell the WHOLE dream, and everything that happens in it to the smallest detail, not bits and parts of it and Professor Stokes never really revealed any specific details at all to Sam exactly what happened to the dream, like the riddle for instance.[/spoiler]
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I most definitely agree with Alondra when she says that one of the cruelest things Ang did was to cause [spoiler]Sam to go blind.[/spoiler] But I also thought that it was one of the best and most fitted things she did to anyone during the entire run of the show.
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If they would have shown less of the dreams, and showed more of the stress that people were under that would have been better. Let us use more or our imagination. I think it started to be shorter. Then the actors had too much fun getting to play with the doors, Maybe is some ways it was a test.
AT the end of the sequence, the stress of not telling the dream was more powerful. Why didn't someone think why didn't Cassandra have the dream? Of course Julia and Barn knew,
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I wanted Adam to be the next new face in the Dream, back when he couldn't speak yet.
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I wanted Adam to be the next new face in the Dream, back when he couldn't speak yet.
[spoiler]My favorite was the headless creation[/spoiler]