DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '07 I => Topic started by: IluvBarnabas on January 06, 2007, 10:20:54 PM
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During the beginning of the 1795 storyline, Nathan started out as a half-way decent guy (with an eye for the ladies and their huge bank accounts) then turns into an absolute heel when we learn [spoiler]he was married to Suki and deserted her. Then he testifes against Vicki hoping to score points with Joshua or at least to get him off his back. Nathan seems somewhat remorseful about what he did to Vicki (but not enough to recant his whole tesitimony). but then he rationalizes what he did. After Daniel's kidnapping and near-death at the hands of Noah Gifford, Nathan's partner in crime, Naomi threatens to call in the authorities until Nathan reveals to her Barnabas is alive and responsible for all the murders in Collinsport. Nathan then learns where Vicki is hiding by following Naomi. Holding Vicki at gunpoint, and having absolutely no mercy for her, he turns her over to the authorities to collect the reward, knowing she is going to die and couldn't care less at this point. Then Nathan learns from an enraged Barnabas Naomi committed suicide because of what Nathan told her about him. Nathan actually seems remorseful.
Interesting don't you think?.Nathan couldn't care less that Vicki is going to die for something she likely is innocent of, thanks in part to his treacherous, damaging testimony against her....yet he seems to feel really bad that Naomi ended up taking her life. One could make the argument that Nathan never expected Naomi to kill herself and I agree with that but that doesn't change the fact he does hold some responsibilty for her death. He's very conscious-stricken over Naomi but doesn't give a damn about Vicki.....[/spoiler]
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Actually, I think Nathan conveniently, via the writers, turned out to be a heel. Certainly, he didn't start out that way. He even helped Vicki. However, it suited the storyline to have him romance Millicent, even though he was married, and then betray Vicki. It added to the drama. I don't believe that was the original intention for the characater at all. He was a friend to Barnabas -- a true and loyal friend.
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Personally I think Nathan was always out for himself. Being close friends with Barnabas and the Collinses would no doubtedly gain him some clout in the community, and make him a upstanding citizen because of his relationship with the town's most prominent family. But, maybe Nathan realized that his relationship wasn't going to give him all he wanted, so he had to get in farther, and thusly started courting Millicent. He had to eliminate those around him who would pose a threat, and with Vicki's smart mind, she no doubtedly would've seen right through him in no time (provided that she STARTED understanding some stuff).
This drive for survivial and the selfishness led to everything that Nathan did. He helped Vicki at Barnabas' request, but saw better opportunity to paint himself in a good light by turning in the town witch and gaining celebrity for catching her. Incriminating part of the Collins family would eliminate the men who would be in his way in trying to woo Millicent, and at the end of it all he'd still have her upstanding name and back accounts.
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Personally I think Nathan was always out for himself. Being close friends with Barnabas and the Collinses would no doubtedly gain him some clout in the community, and make him a upstanding citizen because of his relationship with the town's most prominent family. But, maybe Nathan realized that his relationship wasn't going to give him all he wanted, so he had to get in farther, and thusly started courting Millicent. He had to eliminate those around him who would pose a threat, and with Vicki's smart mind, she no doubtedly would've seen right through him in no time (provided that she STARTED understanding some stuff). This drive for survivial and the selfishness led to everything that Nathan did. He helped Vicki at Barnabas' request, but saw better opportunity to paint himself in a good light by turning in the town witch and gaining celebrity for catching her. Incriminating part of the Collins family would eliminate the men who would be in his way in trying to woo Millicent, and at the end of it all he'd still have her upstanding name and back accounts.
This is an excellant explanation of WHY Nathan changed, one I hadn't come up with myself even after wracking my brain for years trying to figure it out. ;) It certainly sounds very plausible to me. 8)
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Thanks Buzz! I'm glad it came out so coherent because sometimes with explanations like that they come out the wrong way. But, I think it sounds like it could happen, and I'm glad you agree.
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Excellent! That finally makes the whole thing make sense!
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Yes! Way to go! It finally makes sense to me too. All these years, I'd been of the opinion that Nathan morphed into a creep simply because it was convenient to the storyline. Not so! Thank you for that excellent insight.
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While my insight is gaining praise....the question on MY mind is this:
Which makes for better television? Nathan having always been out for himself, or Nathan turning from Barnabas' best friend into the scum-of-the-earth a-hole we knew him to become?
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It would seem to be an evolution of sorts, Brandon. He was always out for himself, thus, his friendship with Barnabas was a sham and his defense of Vicki in the beginning was just to curry favor. When he saw the tide turning, he jumped on the most profitable bandwagon for himself, which was to try to insinuate himself with the other Collinses. It might have worked had it not been discovered that Suki was his wife and not his sister. So, that takes us to his alliance with Trask. Anyway, it was entertaining as far as television goes but maddening for fans who just wanted to give him a good kick -- or worse!
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[spoiler]But Barnabas saw that he got his each time. The cane and the table sceen, and the arrow are my some of my favorite 1795 sceens.[/spoiler] they used to say Barnabas was the person we loved to hate. I say Nathan.
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This is a good reading explaining the character of Nathan Forbes. Sometimes I wonder whether we as viewers are required to fill in too many blanks in order to explain some of the actions and motivations of certain characters, but it does make for more interesting viewing. If there were no ambiguities (or loose ends, or inconsistencies ... ), then there wouldn't be too much to think about or discuss.
The first time I viewed 1795, I thought Forbes' character changed too drastically. Although there are a few hints early on that he may be a rascal, I didn't feel prepared for what his character ended up becoming. Yet looking back at the storyline as a whole, I think it is plausible that Forbes' character was planned like this from the beginning. I would have wanted to see a few more hints early on explaining his character, but that may not be how the genre works. Surprise twists in characters and events may increase viewership. But only the writers and producers could say for sure, and possibly the actor, Joel Crothers, who can no longer tell us.
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What I loved about the Nathan Forbes character besides him being handsome was the fact that we get to see Joel Crothers act the scandal! Joel is a fine actor but wasted talent on Joe Haskell. Joe is the type of person a woman would love to have as her friend, boyfriend and husband. But he is the most boring on a dramatic series. I'm glad Joe had more substance to him after he was introduced to [spoiler]"the other vampire" and became the victim.[/spoiler] It's sad what happens to Joe, but we got to see more of a range of emotions after that happened.
That's why I like Forbes. You can't really "figure" him out because of the multi-levels of his character. He was being developed as the storyline progressed... like Barnabas was developed in steps. Forbes turned into a complete bastard unlike the redemption of Barnabas.[/color][/size]
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Just an observation... But when I first began the 1795 story line, it was really jolting to see kind considerate Joe turned in to a womanizing Nathan Forbes. It took me a few episodes to become accustomed to that particular character.
As for Nathan's sudden transformation, I think he really was a true friend to Barnabas and Jerimiah. There's a point in one of the episodes, I can't recall which one, but I believe it's when Barnabas is about to marry Angelique, and Nathan arrives at the Old House to ask if Barnabas is in some kind of trouble, and if he can help. Barnabas declines his offer, but I got the impression Nathan was genuinely concerned for Barnabas and his situation.
Perhaps it's simply because I have a difficult time separating Joe from Nathan and don't want to think Nathan had planned to take advantage of the Collins' family, but I still think the promise of more power or prestige went to his head, thus turning him in to a jerk. After all, everyone who is friendly with the Collins family doesn't necessarily have to have an alterior motive for doing so. JMHO. :)
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Nathan Forbes started out a good-hearted cad and ended up something rather different. I think his change in behavior had more to do with the rest of what was going on than with any interest the writers had in Nathan. Nathan Forbes was essentially used as a prop and tool to accomodate the more central Barnabas/Collins family/Duprey/Angelique storylines. That's why his whole personality is so confusing. All-in-all though JC managed to give a credible performance throughout the character's changes and really memorable at that. Nathan Forbes is one of DS's more memorable and charming monsters that they excel in. Nicholas Blair is another example of the type. Angelique as well.
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I always figured that Nathan was a bit of a cad, while still being a loyal friend of the Collins family. Even when he wanted to marry a certain someone in order to live socially secure, to me he would've treated her well, and even did have a certain fondness for her beyond the moola she had. But when a certain someone else showed up, that changed everything, and Nathan went into panic mode, burying what decency he had.
Gerard
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We all know what kind of person Nathan Forbes is, but what was he doing in Collinsport
in the first place. Was he sent to Collinsport by the Navy to over see the construction of
a ship being built by the Collins family for the Navy? Has he been a friend to Barnabas and
the rest of the Collins family before he joined the Navy? If so, did Barnabas and Joshua
knew that Forbes was married to Suki?
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He wouldn't have been free to go to Collinsport without being ordered there, so I always pictured something naval mixed in with the Collins literal port, at least a naval ship anchored there where he worked. It seemed odd that Joshua could get him into trouble with the Navy, as if he had authority over them, but that seemed as if it must be interesting historical detail that I'm not familiar with, not a mistake.
Gerard makes some sense of it here. I think there was a transition period when Trask started bullying him, but we saw very little of it on the surface. It also occurred to me reading Gerard's post (this is something I think about) that people may not be "good" or "bad" when unchallenged. We may hover around a neutral midpoint on the good-bad scale. Then when some event comes along that calls for a moral response, we choose and become better or worse people, perhaps temporarily.
This was leading into another point, but I've forgotten it completely. That happens a lot to me. I may be back here if I remember.
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We all know what kind of person Nathan Forbes is, but what was he doing in Collinsport
in the first place. Was he sent to Collinsport by the Navy to over see the construction of
a ship being built by the Collins family for the Navy? Has he been a friend to Barnabas and
the rest of the Collins family before he joined the Navy? If so, did Barnabas and Joshua
knew that Forbes was married to Suki?
From what I've seen, Nathan was there in Collinsport overseeing the plans of a ship for the navy made by the Collinses. He was friends with Barnabas and the family at one point, but no, no one knew that Nathan already had a wife [spoiler] until Millicent discovered the marriage license in Suki's belongings after her murder. [/spoiler] Joshua would never have tolerated a member of his family getting involved with someone already married for fear of scandal.
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Nathan was in charge of something? Really? Well not surprisingly he wasn't very good at it, considering he was hanging around Collinwood every day...