DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '07 I => Topic started by: TNickey2003 on January 06, 2007, 05:29:28 PM
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After the event of Jeremiah's death Andre DuPres seems to have disappeared from the storyline, being absent throughout the significant events that followed: Barnabas marrying Angelique instead of Josette, Barnabas dying, Josette and her aunt Natalie returning to Collinwood, then making plans to return to Martinque, Sarah dying, Josette becoming Barnabas' vampire victim, the discovery of the Collins' familiy history book's prophecy of Josette's death, the actual event of Josette's death.
How could he not be present during such a significant event as his daughter's death?
Did he fall off the face of the earth? Did he leave Collinsport in a huff to return to Martinque and tend to his plantation, leaving his own daughter behind?
Also amazing is that no mention is made by any of the other characters of Andre DuPres or his unexplainable absence during these events that followed. It's hard to imagine that Aunt Natalie wouldn't be vocal about the absence or whereabouts of her niece's father.
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I think there might be a similar topic elsewhere on the board, but I'd have to agree that his absence is quite perplexing. Maybe he just left to go back and tend to the plantation business? Who knows....
Didn't David Ford leave to do a play or something in real life? I can't remember...
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Did he fall off the face of the earth? Did he leave Collinsport in a huff to return to Martinque and tend to his plantation, leaving his own daughter behind?
Also amazing is that no mention is made by any of the other characters of Andre DuPres or his unexplainable absence during these events that followed. It's hard to imagine that Aunt Natalie wouldn't be vocal about the absence or whereabouts of her niece's father.
I don't know if Andre's absence was intentional or if David Ford was simply unavailable, but Natalie mentioned that Andre was in New York during each of these 2 events:
Barnabas dying, Josette and her aunt Natalie ... making plans to return to Martinque,
But we didn't see much more of Sam either once the story returned to the present. And we know how that worked out for the character. ;)
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Didn't David Ford leave to do a play or something in real life? I can't remember...
He wasn't on Broadway during that time, anyway, according to the IBDB (http://www.ibdb.com/person.asp?ID=79220). 1776 opened a year later.
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The fact Andre left Collinwood and never came back always bothered me too. Surely the man would have liked to have known what had happened to Josette that led up to her tragic fate.
I can see him maybe not getting back in time for her funeral but wasn't he the least curious about the events that led to her downfall?
I mean, sheesh, I'd almost rather they'd kill him off (like maybe having him discover the truth about Angelique and her having to dispose of him in order to protect her secret) than have him forget all about his sister and daughter.
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I too wish they'd handled the Andre situation better in light of the events that took place in his abscence. If they took the trouble to have Natalie say he was away, couldn't they have simply written that he'd sent word that he was very ill? Or (cheesy as this might be) couldn't they have acted like his character had only just exited the room before a scene began, anytime it seemed like something had happened that he should have been there for?
And yeah, given that he wasn't around anymore, and that the writers seemed to have no compunction about whom they killed off towards the end of the 1795/6 storyline, why didn't they just have Angelique do away with him, or even have Barnabas accidentally kill him? Certainly would've added a whole other weird level to the Barnabas/Josette storyline.
I really enjoyed David Ford as an actor - wish he'd been around for the rest of the show.
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Didn't David Ford leave to do a play or something in real life? I can't remember...
He wasn't on Broadway during that time. 1776 opened a year later.
I think he *was* doing a play though, off Broadway probably. Think I read this somewhere, a teen rag of the day perhaps? [hdscrt]
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He wasn't on Broadway during that time. 1776 opened a year later.
I think he *was* doing a play though, off Broadway probably. Think I read this somewhere, a teen rag of the day perhaps? [hdscrt]
The original quote, which is shown edited here (by whomever-- it doesn't matter), said that he wasn't on Broadway during that time anyway, etc. As such, I wasn't implying that he wasn't doing a play; only that we know he wasn't on Broadway, at least not according to the IBDB. ;)
There's also an off-Broadway db, but I don't see anything listed for David Ford c. 1968.
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He wasn't on Broadway during that time. 1776 opened a year later.
I think he *was* doing a play though, off Broadway probably. Think I read this somewhere, a teen rag of the day perhaps? [hdscrt]
The original quote, which is shown edited here (by whomever-- it doesn't matter), said that he wasn't on Broadway during that time anyway, etc. As such, I wasn't implying that he wasn't doing a play; only that we know he wasn't on Broadway, at least not according to the IBDB. ;)
There's also an off-Broadway db, but I don't see anything listed for David Ford c. 1968.
I would suggest that he might have been touring in a play which wouldn't show up in either IBDB or the Louise Lortel Off B'way database-- http://www.lortel.org/LLA_archive/index.cfm
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The original quote, which is shown edited here (by whomever-- it doesn't matter), said that he wasn't on Broadway during that time anyway, etc. As such, I wasn't implying that he wasn't doing a play; only that we know he wasn't on Broadway, at least not according to the IBDB. ;)
There's also an off-Broadway db, but I don't see anything listed for David Ford c. 1968.
Oops, hit POST before typing my reply. Anyway, I wasn't implying you were implying, LOL! ;) I too looked at that off-Broadway database w/the same result.
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I don't know how long it would have taken a) for word to get to Andre in New York that Josette was dead, and b) for Andre to get up to Maine from New York upon receiving the news, given the state of transportation in 1795, but I figure there was no possible way for him to get back to Collinsport in time for the funeral, so there would be no particular rush for him to get there, especially given that Natalie could be assumed to be fully capable of dealing with the situation. I liked his blunt way of dealing with Jeremiah and with Trask and I would have liked to see him coming to Collinwood later on and asking Joshua, "What the devil has been going on here?" - especially after
[spoiler]Natalie got killed in the revision of 1795 that happened in 1969. Seems to me that Barnabas told Ben to make it look as though Natalie had up and left, and Andre would have been surprised that she didn't sent him word of where she was going.
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Maybe Andre did indeed confront Joshua, but after Barnabas had been chained up, so that we didn't see it.
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---maybe like Roger's character, he became a cat, and no one noticed... >:D
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As far as Andre went as a father, I always thought he looked at Josette more as a business commodity than a cherished daughter. He was also very much a man of his time in that I assume he was NOT happy with Josette's elopement, thus the disappearing act not being explained. Just a theory, though!
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As far as Andre went as a father, I always thought he looked at Josette more as a business commodity than a cherished daughter. He was also very much a man of his time in that I assume he was NOT happy with Josette's elopement, thus the disappearing act not being explained. Just a theory, though!
And a good one. I agree too. Now, if he'd had a SON instead...
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I agree too. Now, if he'd had a SON instead...
....that certainly would have added an interesting twist to the story.
Let's see.... Joel Crothers as Josef DuPre perhaps.... ;D
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....that certainly would have added an interesting twist to the story. Let's see.... Joel Crothers as Josef DuPre perhaps....
Now THAT would have cemented it for Dark Shadows being a beacon for gay men, LOL! Barnabas and Josef, daytime's first gay couple! >:D
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Now THAT would have cemented it for Dark Shadows being a beacon for gay men, LOL! Barnabas and Josef, daytime's first gay couple! >:D
Their's is a forbidden love....
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It does irk me how they just dumped characters with little or no explanation. Quite often, the actors/actresses did have other things to do, so their characters were just forgotten, rarely written out. Yes, the performers did have to leave for a play, movie, vacation, whatever, or maybe the characters no longer had a pivotal part, but they deserved at least something other than just no longer being there. Another such gotten-rid-of that annoyed me was Magda. Suddenly, there no longer was a Magda. I think they did eventually mention something about her going away to form a 900 psychic phone line service or something, but for such an important persona in the 1897 storyline to just go poof was rather rude.
Gerard
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It does irk me how they just dumped characters with little or no explanation.
They did this w/Frank Garner and I was pulling my hair out. Not to mention they TOTALLY dropped the whole Vickie trying to find out about her parentage! Grrrr.... >:(
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Could it be that David Ford and Nancy Barrett were not getting along. I know that they were married and that they then divorced?? Andre did treat Josette as a trading chip. Didn't Joshua do the same with Barnabas. Josette did marry a Collins.
Lori
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Of course the worst case of this was when they had Adam just go into Professor Stokes' room never to be seen again. There is an advantage though, to their just dropping characters with no explanation. It gives us something to speculate about and those of us who write, to write stories about.
Alondra
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Of course the worst case of this was when they had Adam just go into Professor Stokes' room never to be seen again. There is an advantage though, to their just dropping characters with no explanation. It gives us something to speculate about and those of us who write, to write stories about.
Yes, yes, yes! I agree -- no explanation - nothing! And given his supposed connection with Barnabas, that was just dumb. BTW, glad to see you here, Alondra!
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Actually, that's not quite true. In Adam's last episode (Ep #636) Stokes tells Adam that he knows of a clinic where Adam's scars can be removed and then remarks that he (Stokes) needs a new project. Just from that the audience can easily surmise that clinic is where Adam went. ;)
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Actually, that's not quite true. In Adam's last episode (Ep #636) Stokes tells Adam that he knows of a clinic where Adam's scars can be removed and then remarks that he (Stokes) needs a new project. Just from that the audience can easily surmise that clinic is where Adam went. ;)
Okay, but that's still far from conclusive! I mean, we are to believe Adam and Barnabas had this very special connection. Whatever happened to one, happened to the other. That was mega-important. It was simply dropped! I"m sorry, but it's nonsensical!
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Okay, but that's still far from conclusive!
True. But it's also true that Adam didn't disappear without any hint of where he might have gone. :)
Adam and Barnabas had this very special connection. Whatever happened to one, happened to the other. That was mega-important. It was simply dropped! I"m sorry, but it's nonsensical!
Agreed.
I have my own theories as to what became of Adam (theories that are very different from want Sam Hall's TV Guide article mapped out for his future) - but going into them would probably be getting too closely into the realm of fanfiction.
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Adam and Barnabas had this very special connection. Whatever happened to one, happened to the other. That was mega-important. It was simply dropped! I"m sorry, but it's nonsensical!
That seems to be a staple "out" for any soap plot that writer's don't or feel they can't resolve. Even today.
I don't watch soaps now (except DS of course) but back in the early 90s my last flirtation with them was The Bold and the Beautiful (didn't have much of a choice, my lunch break was the same time as it was on and several coworkers watched it!) There was one plot where a disfigured woman returned to LA to get revenge on the Forresters. The plot reached a climax of discovering her true identity and confronting her then she disappears (with a large check to pay for plastic surgery) and neither she nor that plot are mentioned again...
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Sometimes, even primetime shows will do it. Case in point: "Family Matters." The family originally consisted of three kids. After a few seasons, the younger daughter just disappeared -- poof! No mention of her, no explanation.
I often wondered about Adam, though. Assuming he did go off and get his scars removed, why wouldn't he have come back for Carolyn? And, when Barnabas once again became a vampire, did Adam turn into one? Too many threads left hanging for me, but then again, as you can tell by my handle, I'm an Adam fan.
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I agree too. Now, if he'd had a SON instead...
....that certainly would have added an interesting twist to the story.
Let's see.... Joel Crothers as Josef DuPre perhaps.... ;D
But what about Nathan Forbes. ??
Lori
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Actually, that's not quite true. In Adam's last episode (Ep #636) Stokes tells Adam that he knows of a clinic where Adam's scars can be removed and then remarks that he (Stokes) needs a new project. Just from that the audience can easily surmise that clinic is where Adam went. ;)
Can you imagine, Adam going under the knife. All of a sudden Barnabas falling down what would Julia think??
Lori
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But what about Nathan Forbes. ??
Well, perhaps Don Briscoe played Nathan ;) and Christopher Pennock as Alexis, Josef's manservant, prone to fits of jealousy and a dabbler in the black arts..... :P
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Well, perhaps Don Briscoe played Nathan ;) and Christopher Pennock as Alexis, Josef's manservant, prone to fits of jealousy and a dabbler in the black arts..... :P
Hey the Vampire meets the werwolf. Wasn't that an abbott and costellow movie.
Lori
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Hey the Vampire meets the werwolf. Wasn't that an abbott and costellow movie.
Yes, but probably the most well-known vampire/werewolf pairing around these parts (not counting Angel season Five) would have to be Barn/Quentin! :D
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That is true. How about Barnabas, Quention, Adam, Eve, Laura, and Angelique. Oh yes we can't forget Jeb in his natural form. All of them going on Oprah.
Josette needed a better Father. He didn't really protect her at all.
Lori
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Josette needed a better Father. He didn't really protect her at all.
True, but women were property then worth only their dowry or married to provide business opportunities for the family (as in the DuPres/Collins alliance).
He may have loved and doted on her, but she was still a possession. Independent wealthy (widowed?) women like the Countess were very rare.
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That is true. How about Barnabas, Quention, Adam, Eve, Laura, and Angelique. Oh yes we can't forget Jeb in his natural form. All of them going on Oprah.
Vampires, Werewolves, Witches - and their victims .... Next Sally! ;D
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He may have loved and doted on her, but she was still a possession. Independent wealthy (widowed?) women like the Countess were very rare.
Grayson played the Countess well, (though not her favorite part). In the earlier portion of the show, did David Ford play a good father and protect his daughter??
Lori
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Independent wealthy (widowed?) women like the Countess were very rare.
This is something that always puzzles me: how is it that the Countess is a Countess? Right at the beginning of 1795, if I remember correctly, she mentions being a Countess from her birth. I don't see how a female could be born with a title like that. All I can figure is that infant Natalie came down the chute, poked her head out, and said (in French), "I'm a Countess. Get it?" and the doctor was too cowed to argue with her. He probably didn't give her the spank that newborns traditionally receive, either.
Meanwhile, Andre seems to be plain Monsieur DuPres. Did he give up his title in the Revolution while Natalie remained intransigent?
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All I can figure is that infant Natalie came down the chute, poked her head out, and said (in French), "I'm a Countess. Get it?" and the doctor was too cowed to argue with her. He probably didn't give her the spank that newborns traditionally receive, either.
Or did she marry a count in a secret ceramony. Maybe then cursed by Angelique. ( the countess didn't know that she was a witch)
Lori
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In the earlier portion of the show, did David Ford play a good father and protect his daughter??
One of the scenes that always sticks in my mind is rather early in the Barnabas era. Maggie is in the hospital, and everybody thinks she's dying. Sam, crying, remembers being in this hospital waiting for her to be born, and now he's waiting for her to die. It's the stuff of which soap operas are made - but it still moves me. Good job by David Ford.
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Independent wealthy (widowed?) women like the Countess were very rare.
Do we know for a fact that the Countess had never been married? Is it possible she is a widow and came to live with Andre and Josette after Andre's wife died to provide that older female companionship to Josette? I don't remember it ever being said that she had never married. We can see in the storyline that Natalie loved Josette and they were very close. If she had been married to a Count who had died she would still be a Countess.
I think sometimes we assume that the Grayson Hall characters were all spinsters, except for Magda.
Alondra
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Can you imagine, Adam going under the knife. All of a sudden Barnabas falling down what would Julia think??
That's an interesting point. Considering that Barnabas felt it when the spirit of Philippe Cordier was [spoiler]strangling Adam[/spoiler]one could easily presume Barnabas should have experienced something similar when Adam was having his scars removed. Perhaps that means Adam rejected the idea of going to the clinic. Or perhaps it was simply that the procedure was conveniently done while Barnabas was already asleep, and when he woke up on his own, he simply wondered in the back of his mind why his face felt a bit odd. ;)
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In the earlier portion of the show, did David Ford play a good father and protect his daughter??
I had forgotten that, that was really sad.
One of the scenes that always sticks in my mind is rather early in the Barnabas era. ...
They also had Vickie sitting with Maggie, [spoiler]and the show where there was the howling and they can't get the door open.[/spoiler] very scary really got me.
These were great shows.
Lori
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Can you imagine, Adam going under the knife. All of a sudden Barnabas falling down what would Julia think??
Not really, since one would assume that general anesthesia would be used and Adam would feel nothing. ;)
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Independent wealthy (widowed?) women like the Countess were very rare.
Do we know for a fact that the Countess had never been married? Is it possible she is a widow and came to live with Andre and Josette after Andre's wife died to provide that older female companionship to Josette? I don't remember it ever being said that she had never married. We can see in the storyline that Natalie loved Josette and they were very close. If she had been married to a Count who had died she would still be a Countess.
I think sometimes we assume that the Grayson Hall characters were all spinsters, except for Magda.
I am guessing she either married into the DuPres family (Andre's brother in France) then fled to Martinique when the Count (and most of the other aristos that did not run) was guillotined during the outbreak of the Revolution, or she is Andre's blood sister, married a count, and when he was executed, kept the title but took back her family name DuPres when she rejoined Andre and Josette in Martinique.
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I'm pretty sure that it's established that Natalie is Andre's blood sister. But what I am sure about is that in Ep #368/369, Natalie informs Joshua that she was born with her title.
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I'm pretty sure that it's established that Natalie is Andre's blood sister. But what I am sure about is that in Ep #368/369, Natalie informs Joshua that she was born with her title.
Don't we love the writers making things up as they go along.
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That is true. How about Barnabas, Quention, Adam, Eve, Laura, and Angelique. Oh yes we can't forget Jeb in his natural form. All of them going on Oprah.
Or Family Feud, LOL!
They also had Vickie sitting with Maggie, [spoiler]and the show where there was the howling and they can't get the door open.[/spoiler] very scary really got me.
One scene that scared the s*%@ outta me when I watched it as an ADULT was when [spoiler]Vickie is sitting w/Maggie after she's been vamped by Barnabas and the French doors fly open, the lightning flashes and his silhouette is suddenly there outside causing Vickie to scream loudly![/spoiler]I *jumped* a mile when I saw that scene! ;)
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I'm pretty sure that it's established that Natalie is Andre's blood sister. But what I am sure about is that in Ep #368/369, Natalie informs Joshua that she was born with her title.
Ahh, the arrogant french. ;) She is probably so snooty about these backwater neo-Americans that figures she could say anything to Joshua and he'd believe it...or per parents actually named her her "Countess"! ;)
Can lower aristocratic titles be inherited or is it possible that a titled relative can bequeath his or her estate including the title in his/her will?
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outta me when I watched it as an ADULT was when [spoiler]Vickie is sitting w/Maggie after she's been vamped by Barnabas and the French doors fly open, the lightning flashes and his silhouette is suddenly there outside causing Vickie to scream loudly![/spoiler]I *jumped* a mile when I saw that scene! ;)
Those early shows where so good. so much terror. [spoiler]But was this a show that wasn't really Jonathan. Could it have been someone elsa wearing his coat, ie just like the hand out of the coffin.[/spoiler]
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Those early shows where so good. so much terror. [spoiler]But was this a show that wasn't really Jonathan. Could it have been someone elsa wearing his coat, ie just like the hand out of the coffin.[/spoiler]
Indeed Loril, I don't think Frid was in that ep so it was probably Tim Gordon in the Inverness. ;)