DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '06 II => Topic started by: IluvBarnabas on September 27, 2006, 04:39:54 AM
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On the sci-fi channel a few years ago I saw Hall protray Willie Loomis....he made a convincing creep. However there was something about him that makes me feel he wouldn't have made Willie as complex as John Karlen (the 2nd and best Willie) did. John made Willie so much more into just a rob-graving creep...he also made him into a conscious-stricken, guilt-ridden man and ultimately a great and loyal friend.
I don't know if Hall would have been able to do with as much with Willie as John did. I also feel that Hall lacked the chemistry with Dennis Patrick/Jason that Dennis and John had. Hall may have actually been TOO good at playing the creep.....he was so outwardly nasty, too much so. Jason was also a nasty character but he at least held it in check most of the time and could even be charming. I had a hard time buying that Jason would want to bring a hot-head (Hall) to Collinwood whose violent temper just might undo his plans.
John brought that same hot-headed quality when he took over from Hall, but he didn't overdo it.
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Hall had that real creepy sex offender vibe, he came across as a real dangerous character and reminded me a LOT of Robert Mitchum in Cape Fear.
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I have never seen these episodes, I just started with DVD Collection 1 last year, so I'm afraid I won't be able to judge this James Hall for a couple more years! :(
However, I will have to say, he must be a pretty convincing actor to portray a creep so well. He may have been equally adept at playing the traumatized vampire victim-turned-house slave boy! We don't know because he was never given the chance to progress that far into the storyline. He may have been of the school of "more is more" like our lovely and talented Grayson Hall! :'(
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Hall was definitely creepy - I'll give him that. But, I think the main difference between the two Willies is depth and talent. Karlen has it and then some. Hall's acting ability, at least at this point in time, appeared to be hovering somewhere at the Jr. high school play level. Hideously stiff, stammering delivery which actually made me feel a little embarrassed for him. I hate to sound harsh but, we all have our talents and acting was not one of his. I really hope he found his niche in some other line of work. At least he had the guts to give acting a try - which I would imagine takes a lot of nerve and a very tough skin. As to his little stint on DS, I have the feeling had John Karlen not taken over the role just when he did, Willie may have disappeared into the night - and few people would have noticed or lamented the fact.
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I had a hard time buying that Jason would want to bring a hot-head (Hall) to Collinwood whose violent temper just might undo his plans.
It's been a couple years since I saw the Hall eps, so my memory may be off, but as I recall, Jason not only did *not* send for Willie, but was quite pissed when he turned up at Collinwood unannounced.
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it's been quite a few years since I saw James Hall's Willie (snicker), but I have to agree. My feelings were that Hall had made Willie so creepy and dangerous and really unlikeable, that there would be no way the character could recover from that impression on the public. I squirmed every time he was on the screen, he really weirded me out. ISTR a couple of times, had he not been stopped, he would have raped, any of the women he was alone with (didn't Carolyn pull a gun on him). Karlen take on the character eventually made him not only sympathetic, but pityable and actually somewhat likeable.
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Does anyone know anything about Hall's life and/or career? IMDB lists nothing past 1989. His IMDB entry lists Dark Shadows as his first Job, the nothing til the Edge of Night in 1970. He seems to have worked a bit through the 70s, then pretty much didn't, working only 2 things in 1985 and 1989.
BTW, possible silly question, but any possible relation to Sam and/or Grayson?
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Does anyone know anything about Hall's life and/or career?
I *think* he was friends w/KLS before he appeared on the show (maybe she even got him the job?) Think he drank and that's why he left the show, I think she said that onstage last year? Could be I'm rumor mongering again though. ;)
BTW, possible silly question, but any possible relation to Sam and/or Grayson?
Think that's just a coincidence. Hall's a pretty common name, like Smith and Johnson. ;)
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James was no relation to Sam or Grayson. I believe KLS did say that he was somebody she met in acting classes. She definitely reported that he was fired because of a drinking problem.
While I do find an edgy intrigue in Hall's performance in the role, I definitely agree with the majority that the day John Karlen was hired to play Willie was one of the best days in DS history!
G.
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Had James Hall stayed on, we may have seen Willie killed off as they originally intended!
Its interesting that in the first year of the show, they had more recasts of characters then later on such as Sam Evans, Matthew Morgan, Lt. Riley, Willie Loomis, and the first change of Dr. Woodard. The recasts occured soon after the character was introduced.
I do wish they recast Noah Gifford or had a different actor play Harry Johnson (at his introduction instead of his farewell episode!)
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Hall definitely had "creepy" down pat. The women on the show seemed genuinely apprehensive around him, which helped increase the tension factor. As most others have said, though, I don't believe he would ever have been able to bring the nuances of the character that John Karlen did. When I watched these episodes in the early 90s (which was the first time I saw them), I felt that the tension factor actually decreased noticeably when Karlen replaced Hall. The fact that John was so familiar -- and I knew what was going to happen with him when Barnabas appeared -- the base effect was Willie Loomis changing from an authentic threat to an old friend having a bad day. In the end it worked out for the better, but I really did relish the tangible sense of menace that Hall conveyed. At that time, he was the one human character who outshone the supernatural in terms of sheer dread. Though his acting was merely adequate, in concert with the accomplished actors around him -- particularly Nancy and Alexandra -- his scenes stand out as being very dark and fear-invoking.
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Hall definitely had "creepy" down pat. The women on the show seemed genuinely apprehensive around him, which helped increase the tension factor. As most others have said, though, I don't believe he would ever have been able to bring the nuances of the character that John Karlen did. When I watched these episodes in the early 90s (which was the first time I saw them), I felt that the tension factor actually decreased noticeably when Karlen replaced Hall. The fact that John was so familiar -- and I knew what was going to happen with him when Barnabas appeared -- the base effect was Willie Loomis changing from an authentic threat to an old friend having a bad day. In the end it worked out for the better, but I really did relish the tangible sense of menace that Hall conveyed. At that time, he was the one human character who outshone the supernatural in terms of sheer dread. Though his acting was merely adequate, in concert with the accomplished actors around him -- particularly Nancy and Alexandra -- his scenes stand out as being very dark and fear-invoking.
What he said. Don't even go there. I talked to John a couple weeks ago, praising the old man on his performance in the House of Despair CD. His protrayal of Willie is exceptional and when I gave congrats to JK, he said that, "I AM WILLIE".
As far as James Hall goes, spare me. He stunk. No one: but no one can hold a candle (blue or otherwise) to JK's Willie.
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I'm always curious as to why everyone is so convinced that Hall would not have been able to depict the changed Willie and that Karlen had so much more depth, etc. It would seem that all anyone knows of Hall is his short-lived portrayal of Willie. Everyone seems to agree that he did the creepy and "bad" character very well. It seems reasonable to assume that he personally was not like this! Therefore, he must be a good actor. Since we have no other evidence to judge him by, why not assume he could have handled the change as well? I figure we should give him the benefit of the doubt rather than just assume he couldn't do it!
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I'm always curious as to why everyone is so convinced that Hall would not have been able to depict the changed Willie and that Karlen had so much more depth, etc. It would seem that all anyone knows of Hall is his short-lived portrayal of Willie. Everyone seems to agree that he did the creepy and "bad" character very well. It seems reasonable to assume that he personally was not like this! Therefore, he must be a good actor. Since we have no other evidence to judge him by, why not assume he could have handled the change as well? I figure we should give him the benefit of the doubt rather than just assume he couldn't do it!
Well I can only speak for myself, even though Hall made a good creep (and I never said the guy was a bad actor), there's just something about his acting style that makes me think he wouldn't have been very believable as the beaten-down servant of the vampire. Plus as I had said, Hall didn't really click very well with any of the other actors, and John did. Maybe
Hall could have proven us wrong and did a great job as Willie if he had stayed on, but it was not to be. As Gothick said though, the casting of John as Willie was gold.
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I figure we should give him the benefit of the doubt rather than just assume he couldn't do it!
No offense but, count me out on that one because, even though he didn't last long in the role, I feel that I saw enough to know that, at least in this performance, the guy simply stunk on ice. The fact that I liked Karlen in that part and several others really has little to do with that opinion. I just call them like I see them and I sure didn't see much in Willie No. 1. Even his creepiness - though it existed - made me want to giggle at times. Had I been Vicki or Carolyn I really don't think I'd have taken him all that seriously and would have been tempted to slap him to sleep or have one of the guys give him the bum's rush through the big double doors.
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Had I been Vicki or Carolyn I really don't think I'd have taken him all that seriously and would have been tempted to slap him to sleep or have one of the guys give him the bum's rush through the big double doors.
Yeah, ITA w/this! I was more pissed at the ladies for PUTTING UP w/the guy, he woulda been singin' soprano if he'd pulled that s*#$ on me! >:D
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I remember Hall's Willie harassed Vicki and Jason turned it around and made it sound like Vicki exaggerated the whole thing....that really ticked me off. If I had been Vicki I would have told the both of them off. >:(
If I had been Carolyn I wouldn't have hesitated to use that gun either! >:D
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...he woulda been singin' soprano if he'd pulled that s*#$ on me! >:D
If I had been Carolyn I wouldn't have hesitated to use that gun either!
Haaaaaaaaaa!!! I love it! [clap]
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One of my favorite topics. I used to actually call him James Gak Hall since I despised his portrayal of Willie and felt he was a rotten actor (not to mention just very unattractive). I was asked on my group who I felt was uglier, James Hall's Willie or Harry Johnson. I picked Harry but James Hall was a close second.
Then I was chastized a bit for calling him James Gak Hall. I had to rethink my position on this a bit because after all the guy was hired to play an obnoxious creep and he did so. He was believable in the role. In his stint as Willie, Willie hit on the young ladies and made them hate him. He picked a fight with the men over things that were clearly his fault like [spoiler]parking himself at a table uninvited and refusing to move his carcass.[/spoiler] It's no wonder everyone hated him and wanted him to leave town. The only ones who could tolerate him at all were Mrs. Johnson and David.
Enter John Karlen. Cute John Karlen. He only had a few episodes as the creep Willie but he managed to play them very well, and though his portrayal was much different from Hall's, he made the role a bit more sinister. It was JK's Willie that [spoiler]asked Sam nearly point blank if he painted his daughter in the nude. It was he who picked a fight with Burke Devlin and got his clock cleaned for his trouble. And when he told Jason outside that he was gonna kill Burke, he meant it.[/spoiler]
Then came the change of life for Willie, [spoiler]that night at the mausoleum that forever changed him.[/spoiler] Could James Hall have pulled this off? I don't think so. We will never know, we can only speculate, but I just don't think so. At any rate, even if he could, he was not cute. JK was cute. He was beyond cute. He portrayed Willie in such a way that I fell in love with him. No matter how well Hall played Willie as the beleaguered slave of the vampire, he could never have done it in such a way that I could fall in love with him.
Alondra
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Then came the change of life for Willie
Willie went through menopause? Hmmm. Who knew?!
:D
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Then came the change of life for Willie
Willie went through menopause? Hmmm. Who knew?!
There's more than one kind of change of life. I am going through the usual kind and as annoying as that can be at times, it's not as bad as poor Willie's change. At least I'm not the slave of a vampire.
Alondra
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Then came the change of life for Willie
Willie went through menopause? Hmmm. Who knew?!
That explains so much! ;D
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That explains so much! ;D
It gives a whole new meaning to Poor Willie, don't you think? ;)
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That explains so much! ;D
Doesn't it though. :D
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Now we know why Willie never complained about the lack of central heating at the Old House.
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Now we know why Willie never complained about the lack of central heating at the Old House.
[laughing4] [rofl10]
Alondra