DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '06 I => Topic started by: FireRose on May 03, 2006, 07:11:57 AM
-
You know it was always interesting to me that when Barnabas had Willie to restore the Old House. They repaired the stairs and, what would be called, the drawing room/living room area was also restored. They definately restored Josette's room, but...
Sarah was suppose to mean as much to Barnabas as Josette did. So it would seem that once Sarah was brought into the story. We would have seen her room also at the Old House also. But they never showed Barnabas in a room that could have been his sister's room and I don't ever remember seeing Sarah in a room at the Old House that could have been her room. I think when Sarah found her party dress. It was in the trunk in Josette's room. If I remember correctly.
It was just abit odd that Barnabas would fail to restore his sister Sarah's room as he had Josette's room.
FireRose
-
DS was always at the mercy of a small budget and even smaller studio facilities. Space and money was always in short supply. I also think it was a better plot device to have Sara come to Barnabas than to have him go looking for her in one part of the house.
-
You know, I've often wondered about this too. You'd think they'd have shown Sarah's ghost playing in her room. Did they ever show any rooms other than Josette's, the drawing room and the cellar in the present day? I don't recall seeing Barnabas's room either.
And talking of the old house, just how big was it anyway? When you think of how many people were staying there in the 1790s, there had to be at least nine bedrooms. It would certainly have been a job of work for poor Willie to restore all of that on his own, while Barnabas slumbered in the cellar. ::)
-
Perhaps it was too painful for Barnabas to see his little sister's room again. Maybe he didn't even want Willie in there. He'd often become angry when Willie or Julia would dare even mention her name in his presence. Maybe he kept it locked up?
-
If I were writing the story, I wouldn't want Sarah to show up in the room in which she died. That would imply that she was trapped there forever and that's just too sad to contemplate. Better to find her playing with her ball out in the gardens. That scenario implies hope.
And yes, I agree with PennyDreadful. Barnabas would surely have kept that room safely locked. Even more so than Josette's room, Sarah's would have been too sacred a place for mere mortals to disturb.
-
Perhaps it was too painful for Barnabas to see his little sister's room again. Maybe he didn't even want Willie in there. He'd often become angry when Willie or Julia would dare even mention her name in his presence. Maybe he kept it locked up?
If I were writing the story, I wouldn't want Sarah to show up in the room in which she died. That would imply that she was trapped there forever and that's just too sad to contemplate. Better to find her playing with her ball out in the gardens. That scenario implies hope.
And yes, I agree with PennyDreadful. Barnabas would surely have kept that room safely locked. Even more so than Josette's room, Sarah's would have been too sacred a place for mere mortals to disturb.
Yes and that would have been an interesting story idea to have restored the room. Locked and forbid anyone to enter it.
It would have been a great mystery had they thought to do that before Sarah appeared on the show.
I understand what you are saying, but... and there is always a but.
One thing about Dark Shadows is they didn't stick to the rules. So having Sarah's room showed. Didn't necessary mean she would have been trapped there. Because Dan Curtis and the writer's didn't stick to traditional rules of how ghost/spirits behaved in the way we always read about in books and saw them portrayed in movies and other tv shows that dealt with spirits.
[spoiler]Sarah died inside the Old House. So most stories I've seen that involve spirits/ghost had it where they were bound not to go beyond the threshold of the place they died. Sarah should have been confined to the Old House by that rule and not been able to go anywhere beyond the walls of the Old House. But Sarah seemed to go pretty much where she wanted to go outside the Old House. She went outside to play with David. She went to Collinwood. She went to Sam Evans'. She went to Wyndcliffe.[/spoiler]
I just think it would have been interesting to see how it would have played out had Barnabas restored the child's room too.
It would have made an interesting story plot had they thought to do that before we knew who Sarah was.
FireRose
-
Judging from 1795, I just don't seem to remember Barnabas and Sara being very close. I mean, Josette was his entire life, he was completely devoted to her. After that it was Jeremiah, his best friend, and then probably his mother. Sara seemed to rank only above Abigail and Joshua.
-
Judging from 1795, I just don't seem to remember Barnabas and Sara being very close. I mean, Josette was his entire life, he was completely devoted to her. After that it was Jeremiah, his best friend, and then probably his mother. Sara seemed to rank only above Abigail and Joshua.
Actually, from watching 1795 I was under the impression Barnabas absolutely adored Sarah. He was devastated when she died (this is why I have a really hard time accepting Barnabas forgiving Anglique for the damage she inadvertently caused). Barnabas actually agreed to marry Angelique if she could cure Sarah of her chest pains which Angelique was responsible for in the first place (remember the doll and pins?). ..nice lady Angelique.
He almost seemed more like her father than Joshua did. I felt that Joshua was probably more uncomfortable with his young daughter and didn't quite know how to react towards her and it was this void which brought Sarah and Barnabas much closer. But, everyone sees things differently :)
-
[spoiler]Actually, the main family had moved to Collinwood by Sara's death. (Remember Barnabas wasn't cursed until after they had all left.) She died from pneumonia from going to the Mausoleum to find vampire Barnabas but instead getting caught in the rain. Thus, she died in the main house. I believe Barnabas was very close to his sister.[/spoiler]
She really is out of bounds with the ghost thing. However, I never mind it really. She came in handy in several situations this way.
-
[spoiler]Actually, the main family had moved to Collinwood by Sara's death. (Remember Barnabas wasn't cursed until after they had all left.) She died from pneumonia from going to the Mausoleum to find vampire Barnabas but instead getting caught in the rain. Thus, she died in the main house. I believe Barnabas was very close to his sister.[/spoiler]
I remember now that you pointed that out.
Which proves I'm as confused as the writer's were on the show. So I can't complain about them messing up. When I did it myself.
FireRose
-
Actually, from watching 1795 I was under the impression Barnabas absolutely adored Sarah. He was devastated when she died.
This is very true. [spoiler]he was distraught when she died, especially since he blamed himself. He would have died in her place if he could have.[/spoiler]
He almost seemed more like her father than Joshua did. I felt that Joshua was probably more uncomfortable with his young daughter and didn't quite know how to react towards her and it was this void which brought Sarah and Barnabas much closer.
I agree w/this as well. He was more 'fatherly' towards her than brotherly. I mean, in the very first episode of 1795 when [spoiler]he encounters Vickie on the front porch of the Old House when she's just arrived in the past, Sarah comes out and he, surprised to see her says, "Sarah, what are you doing up? I thought I just tucked you in for your nap."[/spoiler]What brother does that? I actually wrote a story once where it was revealed he was actually her father. Not that I'm saying he was really, just something to think about! ;D
I just think it would have been interesting to see how it would have played out had Barnabas restored the child's room too.
It would have made an interesting story plot had they thought to do that before we knew who Sarah was.
Again, very true. It would have added to the already growing mystery about who Sarah was and what did she have to do w/Barnabas. I love that scene in 1967 when [spoiler]she comes to Maggie in her basement cell and says, "If you see my big brother, DON'T tell him you saw me! He doesn't like it when ppl come down here!" Then she skips away.[/spoiler]
-
when barnabas wasn't in the vampire state(which ended up being a considerable period of time)i doubt he slept in that dark and dank basement.
he must have demanded very comfortably appointed gentlemen's quarters upstairs.that would have been a great set to see.
-
I'll tell you what room I REALLY would have loved to see: a bathroom in the Old House completely renovated in the ornate Victorian style, with claw-foot tub, silver fixtures and roaring fireplace.
Oh, and Willie....having a soak after a hard day of bleeding cattle..... ;)
-
they did show willie's bedroom set on at least one occasion.
[spoiler]when the police were investigating maggie's disappearance in 1967 barnabas being the nice guy that he was at the time planted maggie's ring in willie's room in order to frame him for her kidnapping.[/spoiler]
-
Here it is:
-
I always laugh at the dismissive attitude the Collins family have towards the discarded "old house"; a absolutely gorgeous multi-million dollar mansion. I wish I knew someone who wanted someone to - fix up - an old house and live in it "sigh". ONLY on Dark Shadows.
-
when barnabas wasn't in the vampire state(which ended up being a considerable period of time)i doubt he slept in that dark and dank basement. he must have demanded very comfortably appointed gentlemen's quarters upstairs.that would have been a great set to see.
And I'm sure Julia would have loved to see it too! ;)
-
I always laugh at the dismissive attitude the Collins family have towards the discarded "old house"; a absolutely gorgeous multi-million dollar mansion. I wish I knew someone who wanted someone to - fix up - an old house and live in it "sigh". ONLY on Dark Shadows.
that's a good point, I hadn't thought about that - :)
-
The Collins family seemed to feel that the old house was beyond repair. Only Barnabas because he grew up in the house had the interest in restoring it. I myself bought a house that is more than 200 years old to restore. It has turned out to be a second job with no end in sight. Elmont...
-
Only Barnabas because he grew up in the house had the interest in restoring it.
But that's not why Barnabas restored the Old House. As we all know, he needed a 'lair' where he could hide his coffin etc...that was, for the most part (David's snooping not-with-standing) private, secluded and out of the way. The OH was the perfect solution for him to have to hide in.
-
The Collins family seemed to feel that the old house was beyond repair. Only Barnabas because he grew up in the house had the interest in restoring it. I myself bought a house that is more than 200 years old to restore. It has turned out to be a second job with no end in sight. Elmont...
I live in a house built in 1920. I don't find the movie "Money Pit" funny, anymore. Poor Willie trying to restore a very old house without electric drills and saws. Barnabas could never pawn enough of his mother's jewels to afford restoring an old house.
Elmont, you have my sympathy.
-
The Collins family seemed to feel that the old house was beyond repair. Only Barnabas because he grew up in the house had the interest in restoring it. I myself bought a house that is more than 200 years old to restore. It has turned out to be a second job with no end in sight.
Well, OK, but it seems that even in 1795 they had that condescending "attitude" towards the beautiful old house. I can't image it was in such disrepair back then. Though, I realize they were giving it to Barnabas for his wedding present. Or, were they initially? I know Naomi gave it to Barnabas when he was going to marry Angelique because his father kicked him out of Collinwood. Was she going to give it to him anyway? Were they just going to let it sit empty? Very wierd. Why they needed two huge mansions is strange. Especially since neither Joshua or Naomi seemed like the spend-thrift type.
*Edited by Midnite
-
I was always under the impression that Barnabas and Josette were to live on at the Old House, and presumably raise their own family, while the rest of the family moved to the new house. But I don't recall if that was ever established on camera. :-
-
I can't imagine a family like the Collins allowing a property to pass out of the family's hands. Property was the most significant thing a family could have. Being a land owner conferred more honor and respect on a man than money, and having to sell land was the worst thing that could happen.
They would have handed a child over to indentured servitude before they sold their lands. Kids were easy to come by. Land was not.
-
I was always under the impression that Barnabas and Josette were to live on at the Old House, and presumably raise their own family, while the rest of the family moved to the new house. But I don't recall if that was ever established on camera. :-
Yes, it's what Barnabas told Natalie when she first showed up at the Old House. She expressed her disgust that Josette was expected to live there (and with pretty much everything, actually), and Barnabas said it was going to be their wedding gift from his parents, who will move into the new house after the marriage.
Of course, we later learn that the deed to the house was actually in Naomi's name.
-
for me Barnabas being Sarah's brother stretched it a bit due to their obvious age differance
with the same parents . i also don't think the writers thought things out like the fans do
i don't think it ever occured to them that sarah even had a room
-
for me Barnabas being Sarah's brother stretched it a bit due to their obvious age differance with the same parents.
I thought so too, so I wrote a fan fic where he was *actually* her father and Joshua and Naomi raised her as theirs to avoid the scandal! ;D
i also don't think the writers thought things out like the fans do i don't think it ever occured to them that sarah even had a room.
I think originally, before 1795 and even before Sarah showed up as a ghost, that the age difference was more believable, as in, they were only a few years apart. I seem to recall him telling someone (Willie maybe) that she died while they were BOTH young children, and he of course grew up but she stayed young when she was a ghost. Midnite, can you confirm? ;)
-
I think originally, before 1795 and even before Sarah showed up as a ghost, that the age difference was more believable, as in, they were only a few years apart. I seem to recall him telling someone (Willie maybe) that she died while they were BOTH young children, and he of course grew up but she stayed young when she was a ghost. Midnite, can you confirm?
Ack!
[scratch2]
In #276, when Willie accuses Barnabas of not understanding his grief over you-know-who's death, Barnabas tells him that long before he met Josette he lost a friend when she was very young. Then Sarah appears.
In #332, when Vicki describes David's antique toy soldier to Julia, the doctor says she remembers seeing a photo in a Colllins family album of a boy holding a toy soldier and a girl holding a doll.
Math aside, those are the only early clues I can recall that imply a smaller age difference between Barnabas and Sarah.
-
In #332, when Vicki describes David's antique toy soldier to Julia, the doctor says she remembers seeing a photo in a Colllins family album of a boy holding a toy soldier and a girl holding a doll.
I wonder if that 'photo' was a photo of a painting? Like the photo of Sarah's portrait which we see when everyone's trying to figure out who David's 'little friend Sarah' is. If so, that COULD be of them. I could see Joshua commissioning a portrait of his two young children as again, we know at least one of Sarah was commissioned. And we know from 1795 that Barnabas DID in fact have several toy soldiers when Angelique finds one and asks Jeremiah about it. He tells her the toy soldier indeed belonged to Barnabas and was a member of "the regiment". ;) Plus, pre-1795 the age difference between Jeremiah and Barnabas was larger. Remember he referred to Jeremiah as his "middle-aged" uncle.
-
Well, OK, but it seems that even in 1795 they had that condescending "attitude" towards the beautiful old house. I can't image it was in such disrepair back then. Though, I realize they were giving it to Barnabas for his wedding present. Or, were they initially? I know Naomi gave it to Barnabas when he was going to marry Angelique because his father kicked him out of Collinwood. Was she going to give it to him anyway? Were they just going to let it sit empty? Very wierd. Why they needed two huge mansions is strange. Especially since neither Joshua or Naomi seemed like the spend-thrift type.
Present day family: Elizabeth had petitioned the county to have her property taxes reduced on the grounds that most of Collinwood was shut up and disused. She had cash flow problems and her real estate was all mortgaged to the hilt. The house and business were considered to be ripe for the taking by Burke.
We're not talking a 3-bedroom house. We're talking a colonial era mansion which would need to be wired in its entirety. They would need to install central heating. They would need to install plumbing. They would need to install a new kitchen and at least a new bathroom. All those windows that were broken? Most likely not the standard sizes that you could just go down to Home Depot (not that they had Home Depot in the 1960s) to reorder. We are talking lath and plaster construction, much of which would probably need to be fixed or redone. You're talking a monster of a roof. The outside? Does that need work? Most likely. You're also looking at landscaping and gardening and no doubts quite a few outbuildings. You're talking 100 years of total neglect. To keep it remotely in historical character? How would they keep up with the utilities? Who is going to live in it? Elizabeth spends 18 years as a recluse so it's not like she's thinking restore it and turn it into a museum. The present-day Collinses didn't have that kind of dough.
1790s family: They're a nouveau riche family that's moving on up. It costs money to tear these things down. Maybe they were envisioning using it as a dower house for Naomi. Or a place for Jeremiah and Millicent. Maybe they were planning on tearing it down eventually. It's supposed to be a half a mile from Collinwood so it's not quite like it's smack dab next door.
In some ways the "restoration" fit with the original character concept. Creepy guy fixes up the one main room so that it's not falling down and then the shrine to his Josette while the rest of the house looks like a mess. Very stalker-esque.
And lastly, there are people who don't care for antiques or old houses. It boggles my mind, but that's me. Roger was always pushing Liz to sell the house so they could move someplace new. Faux Burke professed his dislike of the house from the "Past" and had a preference for something more modern. That kind of attitude is nothing new. Mansfield Park takes place in the early 1800s and there are characters who want to modernize one of the estates...
-
Jeremiah could be only a few years older than BC in 1795 and be "middle-aged" since BC was already in his 30s I think. Great youthing of Barnabas, whivch they forgot how to do with Bramwell apparently.
The age difference between BC and Sarah always struck me as a cool bit of period detail. Didn't that happen in rich families back then? I have no idea where I think I know this from.
-
the distance between collinwood and the old house seems to change as often as the year of josette collins' death.
it changes from being about half a mile away to just across the lawn according to that episode's storyline needs.
i just watched the episode where it first appears and here it had to have been some distance away from collinwood because vicki had been there for several weeks at this point and had never seen or even heard of it.
considering how much time she spent snooping around in the early days that's saying something.these episodes b.t.w. have excellent exterior shots with alexandra,david and thayer all wandering around the woods and the house.
sometimes however characters can move between the two houses in record time.case in point.
[spoiler]i recall one episode in 1967 where vicki,carolyn and julia are in the drawing room.carolyn offers to make some coffee.julia siezes the opportunity to place vicki under hypnosis,lead her to the old house,show her barnabas in his coffin and lead her back to collinwood in the few minutes it would have taken carloyn to make the coffee unless she was supposed to have harvested and roasted the beans herself.[/spoiler]
as for the 30-odd year age difference between barnabas and sarah i always thought that was kind of ridiculous.
-
as for the 30-odd year age difference between barnabas and sarah i always thought that was kind of ridiculous.
It really depends on the age Naomi was when she had Barnabas. It wasn't uncommon for girls to be married off before they were 15 years old in the 1700s.
Taking that into account. Joshua didn't seem all that fond of Naomi. So it wouldn't be to hard to reason that after Barnabas was born. Joshua and Naomi might not have shared a bed anymore. Joshua may have gone other places for his entertainment.
Then one day Joshua changed his mind. Hence came Sarah so many years later.
If say Naomi was 15 when she had Barnabas. She would have been about 45 when Sarah was born. So it isn't impossible for a thirty year age difference to seperate children in a family.
So when Barnabas was 30 and Sarah was 10. Naomi would have been 55 years old.
That is if my math is correct. It really depends on how old Barnabas was suppose to be on the show.
FireRose
-
So when Barnabas was 30 and Sarah was 10. Naomi would have been 55 years old.
That should have been when Barnabas was 40 and Sarah was 10. Naomi would have been 55 years old.
I think.
Sometimes Dark Shadows is confusing when one tries to use reason to explain what the writer's were doing within the storyline.
FireRose
-
If we can go by Parallel Time (and a case could be made that we can because everyone in PT seems to be the same age as their RT counterparts), then DS established that Barnabas was born in 1770. So, even though Frid was in his 40s, Barnabas was apparently only 25 when he was cursed. (Well, unless he was born in early January and already turned 26 before then. After all, the only time we ever saw birthday celebrations on DS was in dreams when children were dying. [wink2])
-
. Didn't that happen in rich families back then? I have no idea where I think I know this from.
It happened frequently in all families back then, rich or not. The simple fact was that child-birth was very dangerous. Women of all classes got pregnant more often, and died more often than is usual today. Once a mother was gone, men had little choice but to marry again, not only for his own companionship, but also to provide a mother to his children.
The age difference between Barnabas and Sarah has no significant historical explaination. Frid was just too mature a man to play the brother of a child as young as Sarah.
-
If we can go by Parallel Time (and a case could be made that we can because everyone in PT seems to be the same age as their RT counterparts), then DS established that Barnabas was born in 1770. So, even though Frid was in his 40s, Barnabas was apparently only 25 when he was cursed.
I have said for YEARS that fans need to FORGET that Frid was 42 when he accepted the part of Barnabas. Josette was in her 22nd year when she died. I think Barnabas was 25 or 26, MAX. It's called 'suspension of disbelief' folks. Get over the fact that Frid was 42 and try and imagine him as a 25 year old.
As for Jeremiah supposedly being the 'middle-aged' uncle pre-1795, well, everything was changed in 1795 from what had been established already, including the fact that Jeremiah brought Josette to CW as his bride and that Barnabas was teaching her English and fell in love w/her. The pre-1795 Barnbas is an arrogant SOB who only seems to care about himself and his own pleasures. He cares not that he stole his 'middle-aged' uncle's wife. But by the time 1795 occurs, we see a VERY different Barnabas, one who is sweet, gentle, kind, considerate, loving, naive etc...a real pussycat. Quite a difference from what we were originally led to believe about him.
Now, about the age difference between Barnabas and Sarah. We only assume there were only 2 children produced by Joshua and Naomi. It's entirely possible that there were several children in between them that didn't survive. Children often died before reaching adulthood in the 18th century.
-
of course all of this could simply have been a case of the producers being caught between a rock and a hard place.
they hired sharon smyth to play a ghost long before anyone knew that sarah would eventually become a flesh and blood character playing opposite frid.so when the storyline traveled back to 1795 they had no choice but to use her and hope audiences wouldn't question the age difference.
what's also funny is that kids at that age grow very quickly.so by the end of the 1795 storyline sarah looks much older than she did when her ghost first appeared in 1967.
-
I have said for YEARS that fans need to FORGET that Frid was 42 when he accepted the part of Barnabas. Josette was in her 22nd year when she died. I think Barnabas was 25 or 26, MAX. It's called 'suspension of disbelief' folks. Get over the fact that Frid was 42 and try and imagine him as a 25 year old.
I think Frid did an excellent job of lending a genuine youthful charm to his character in 1795, that really did make me forget his real age. I think the agedness and the coldness in him comes from spending nearly 175 years cursed as a vampire and locked in a coffin. He still would have woken up every night for those years hungering for blood and not being able to get out. Pretty horrifying if you think about it.
-
what's also funny is that kids at that age grow very quickly.so by the end of the 1795 storyline sarah looks much older than she did when her ghost first appeared in 1967.
This is so true! I can't believe how much David Hennesy has grown up, before our very eyes in fact, from the pre-Barnabas eps to PT 1970. He looks, acts and SOUNDS so much older than the early days of DS.
I think Frid did an excellent job of lending a genuine youthful charm to his character in 1795, that really did make me forget his real age. I think the agedness and the coldness in him comes from spending nearly 175 years cursed as a vampire and locked in a coffin.
This is a good point. In 1795, he was, in a way, almost childlike w/his naive ways. Actually pretty UN-worldly, IMHO, for a guy who had at least traveled to the Carribean on business and been exposed to different cultures etc...After becoming a vampire, and this after all the bad things that happened to him like [spoiler]his fiance jilting him literally at the alter, and w/his beloved uncle no less, caused him to develop an 'edge' to his personality. He started to see the bad in ppl, and life. Then throw the vampire curse in and nearly 200 years trapped in a coffin, and it's no wonder he wasn't a stark raving lunatic by 1967's release by Willie. Well, actually, he WAS for a time, his kidnapping and torture of Maggie being the prime evidence of that. But by the time he was 'cured' by the experiment, he'd regained some of his softness and compassion, as evidenced by all the good he did trying tirelessly to help ppl, most particularly his family. But he still had that 'edge' to him.[/spoiler]
-
I have said for YEARS that fans need to FORGET that Frid was 42 when he accepted the part of Barnabas. Josette was in her 22nd year when she died. I think Barnabas was 25 or 26, MAX. It's called 'suspension of disbelief' folks. Get over the fact that Frid was 42 and try and imagine him as a 25 year old.
I have no problems with the middle-aged Frid playing a 25 year old (and I agree that was probably Barnie's age at the time) but ... there is also the point that, again, his smoky soulful and somewhat hurt brown eyes are really those of someone who has lived some. So, sometimes it's hard to get a grip on Barnabas' personality and actions. If it were a genuine 25 year old punk playing the 25 year old Barnabas I think our perception of him and what he did, might be a little clearer. However, I adored Frid's 1795 performance and very happy with what I was able to get out of it. Some beautiful readings and tense gothic emotions that will probably never again be repeated on telelvision.
* edited by mod
-
Wasn't Barnabas 27 when "it" happened?
-
Wasn't Barnabas 27 when "it" happened?
I don't recall that an actual chronological age was ever mentioned for Barnabas. The only reason we know Josette's is because of her tombstone. Can't recall if they had birth & death years on Jeremiah's tombstone, I'd have to go back and look. But I always felt that he and Barnabas were only 1-3 years apart in age. It *was* established on camera that they were close in age by Jeremiah after [spoiler]Angelique makes Barnabas choke and Vickie sees how concerned Jeremiah is for his nephew. She comments that she'd always been led to believe (by the 1960's Barnabas) that he and Barnabas were not close. He angrily says that even though they are uncle & nephew, they were "the same ages" (I think btw that this was a blooper on Anthony George's part, I believe the line was actually "because we are the same age" and he blooped and added the 's') they were more like brothers.[/spoiler]
Anyway, blooper aside, I accepted it and took it to mean that they were close in age, but maybe not the SAME age.
-
During the 1700s middle age was a lot younger than what middle age is considered today. Take 'Emma' by Jane Austen for example. Emma was 21 and George was 37 and was considered pretty much into middle age. I believe he was 16 when she was born and fondly recalled holding baby Emma in his arms. Now 21 years later, they discovered that they loved one another. Even Emma at 21 was almost past her prime marrying years. Consider 'Persuasion' by Jane Austen. The heroine, Anne Elliott was all of 27 almost 28. A younger sister had already been married for years. Anne may have been readied for the role of care giver even though her older sister Elizabeth had not yet married either. Elizabeth who was considered so much more worthy of a suitable marriage than Anne didn't even have half the charm that Anne possed in her little finger. I'm surprised that Naomi even had the title to the house in her name unless it was a wedding gift to her from Joshua.