Author Topic: OT - DS DVD: your opinions appreciated  (Read 4663 times)

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Offline murph

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OT - DS DVD: your opinions appreciated
« on: August 17, 2002, 07:47:01 PM »
I would like your opinions on what I discuss below.
Sorry for the length but I think it's important.............

I am trying to offer some constructive criticizm on the first DS DVD which in my opinion seemed to be put together with very little thought and effort.  It seems only to exist to make someone a lot of money.  I say this because I also purchased the DS Blooper video which is humorous at times but also seems to have been thrown together with very little thought and to make a quick buck.  Does anyone know if the actors/actresses are receiving compensation for their work in the episodes they appear in?  I hope so.  It's because of them that probably 99% of the people are purchasing the DVD's.  

My desire is to get people discussing this so that hopefully the future DVD sets will have a lot more quality than the first one did.    

I am a huge fan of the show (mostly because it represents a time of innocence for me.) and few things are more relaxing to me than coming home from work to spend the next 45 minutes watching the episodes I had taped earlier in the day.  (I fast forward through the commercials.)  Then I get on with the rest of the evening much more relaxed.

I eagerly anticipated the DVD release and purchased it right away.  The episodes look great on DVD but with the cost of $50. including S&H I expected much more than I received.  It is my understanding they expect to release all the episodes on DVD.  I believe there were 1225 episodes taped which means that assuming 40 episodes per set there will be 31 DVD sets released.  
If someone purchases all of them at roughly $50 apiece they will spend over $1500!!!  

I would be very interested in purchasing all of them if they were of superior quality.  The reason I didn't care for the first set is because the extras were so skimpy, in my opinion.  The 15 minute overview of the first 10 months of the show (before Jonathan Frid joined the series) was very good.  The interviews with Jonathan Frid, Kathryn Leigh Scott and John Karlen were a hugh let down for me.  Don't get me wrong I am not faulting the actors at all.  (In fact Jonathan Frid's portrayal of Barnabas is the primary reason I ran home from school all those years ago to watch the show.)  The interviews seemed so disjointed.  The viewer does not see the interviewer or hear their questions, so we are left with the actor answering questions from someone we neither see or hear.  The interviews are also very short about 5 minutes in length apiece.  An engineer friend who knows a lot about DVD technology told me they could have kept the 40 episodes on the set and still had plenty of room for some great extras.  

I don't think it takes a degree in Business to realize that
the target audience for this DVD is all the kids who watched it during it's original run who are now in their 40's and 50's.  I know for myself I believe there are so many things that could be included in the DVD's.  A few examples could be an in depth look at the major events that occurred during the show's original run.  (The first man on the Moon, assasinations of Martin Luther King Jr. and Bobby Kennedy, the Vietnam war, etc.)  A look at the music and books that were popular.  The reason I think this would be so interesting is because like most soaps at least of that time they never discuss current events or real people.  They exist completely in their own world.  To look at what was going on during the time the show was on I think would be facinating.  
Another could be a friendly backstage look at the friendships, etc. that existed between the cast and crew. This has the potential of being done very well or very badly.  

I know this would cost money but I believe if the powers that be put out a really high quality product then many people would respond, including myself by purchasing most if not all of the DVD sets.  As it is I do not to plan to purchase any more unless the the quality goes up and I believe there are many others who feel the same way.  

What do all of you think? Do you have other topics that you think would be of interest and would be a great addition as extras to the future sets of DVD's released?
I am not assuming that the powers that be will listen to our suggestions but we can always dream.  Do you think there should be more energy put into the making of these DVD sets or do you think the first one was superior and met all your expectations.  I'd like to know.

Thanks for your input,

Murph

Offline Luciaphile

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Re: OT - DS DVD: your opinions appreciated
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2002, 11:31:31 PM »
I think some of the interviews are the ones that made it onto the pre-Barnabas VHS tapes, but I could be wrong about that.

FWIW, there is someone on these boards who works at MPI and was interested in feedback.

Luciaphil
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Offline Stuart

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Re: OT - DS DVD: your opinions appreciated
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2002, 03:00:35 AM »
I think the DVDs are great -- they represent fantastic value for money and offer the highest-quality home entertainment release of the show to date at the cheapest price ever.  Which is more than enough to keep me purchasing the sets.

There really aren't a lot of potential extras for "Dark Shadows" -- the outtakes that survive for the entire run amount to barely 10 minutes, remaining promos are in single figures and spread over a potential 30 sets, it is going to be thin.  The material just isn't there.

Dan Curtis Productions have invested in some new interviews for the discs, which will be seen over upcoming releases.  

As it stands, there are already minor technical problems that need to be addressed, and which won't improve if more disc space is given over to supplemental materials.  I'd rather see the stuff you propose used for future documentaries or special programmes, where it can be covered in more depth.

In my experience, extras on most tv-related discs don't amount to much and generally promise a lot more than they ever deliver.  My primary concern when purchasing the VHS tapes was to enjoy the episodes themselves, and that hasn't changed now I'm watching those episodes on DVD.
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Offline VAM

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Re: OT - DS DVD: your opinions appreciated
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2002, 03:32:59 AM »
Quote
Another could be a friendly backstage look at the friendships, etc. that existed between the cast and crew. This has the potential of being done very well or very badly.

The Sciography was suppose to contain that type of information and also interviews with fans. However, when unvailed at the 2002 DS Festival Banquet, even with edited cuts, it caused some controversy...I don't think this is a direction that they want to take now.
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Offline Raholt

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Re: OT - DS DVD: your opinions appreciated
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2002, 08:45:33 AM »
The DVD's, with set one being the only one I have seen thus far, are excellent.  The quality of the video and audio is superb compared to the VHS versions.  I have the whole series on MPI VHS, but some during the course of 5 years of purchasing and collecting the videos, I can't count the number of defective videos I came across and some were kept because I didn't realize they were defective, as in black spots that would pop up from time to time, which I thought were defects in the master copies, but apparently some were defects in the videotapes.  The quality of the picture on the DVD's is great even in freeze frame mode, which on some video versions don't look good at all.  I had bought the Dark Shadows DVD that MPI had put out a couple of years ago, contain three segments and found both the picture and sound quality superior to Video and that is why I decided to replace my video collection with DVD.  Also DVD's take up a lot less space for storage.  

As for my videos, they will not go to waste.  Once I have enough of the DVD's collected, I will let a friend of mine, who is a big DS fan, but can't afford the tapes and doesn't have cable, have them so she can enjoy the episodes again.  I know that she would really appreciate that.

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Offline Raholt

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Re: OT - DS DVD: your opinions appreciated
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2002, 08:53:00 AM »
As for the extras, yes, it might be nice if what they offered were new interviews with the surviving cast, but aside from that, there is not alot of additonal video material to add to them.  The blooper video you mentioned was taken straight from episodes that aired and there just isn't a lot of unaired footage available, but little ever existed.  Since they didn't edit the episodes and stop tape for mistakes the bloopers and all became part of the series itself.  I know with modern films there are all kinds of material released on the DVD, including bloopers, alternate endings, portions of the film that were cut before it was released, but that stuff doesn't exist for DS so I'm just grateful for what does exist, the interviews as well as the episodes themselves.  Given the fact that in the days when DS was made, most networks did not save soap opera or other types of series for that matter, but instead recycled the video tape, we are lucky to have copies of all but one to see nearly 40 years later.  I have no complaints about the DVD's because I'm glad they are here at all because the odds are so much against that being the case.

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Offline doombuggy69

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Re: OT - DS DVD: your opinions appreciated
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2002, 09:55:55 AM »
>>>>>>>>The episodes look great on DVD but with the cost of $50. including S&H I expected much more than I received.

$50.00!!!!!! OUCH!! Where in world are you spending $50.00 for them??  There are lots of places that are selling the DVD's for as low as $29.95. I got my set for $26.95!  I would be happy to list these places for you if you so desire. Don't plunk down $50.00 for them, they are not worth it. Especially with the quality and lack of extras that MPI puts on them!

>>>>>>>> I know for myself I believe there are so many things that could be included in the DVD's.  A few examples could be an in depth look at the major events that occurred during the show's original run.

MPI has already put out several very well done documentaries on the history of the show over the years. I don't really know what else is left to talk about! I saw the unaired sci fi channel docudrama at the recent DS Festival. Although, it started out good, and tried to tie in events like music and counterculture to the DS audience, it ended up being a fluff piece, full of gossip and should be buried forever.

>>>>>>>The interviews are also very short about 5 minutes in length apiece.  

Keep in mind Murph, those interviews were done around 1986!  Jonathan Frid does not really grant interviews on DS anymore, unless he is paid lots and lots of money. We are lucky we have gotten what we have from him as is!  By adding more extras to the sets, MPI would have had to increase the price of them. With 40 more sets to go, I am sure there is room for plenty of good extras down the road.  Let's let MPI know how we feel. They love DS, and are open to improvements.

I agree with you on many points of your complaints on the DVD's from MPI.  I have been very vocal on this board recently myself about the quality of the episodes, and the digital remastering.  My TV is near High Definition quality, and because it has over 1000 line resolution, it brings out all the picture problems that come from a low bitrate produced DVD. My problems specifically are with the "artifacting" mosaic patterns that come from poorly encoded DVD's, when played on an HD or similar type of TV.  These problems could be solved if MPI were aware of them and wanted to spend a little bit more money on them.   For me the quality is poor, but at least it is watchable and I will definately live with it, because I love having the show on DVD.  But, I think there is room for improvement on MPI's part, and they could up the bitrate a little bit to produce an even sharper picture.  


Offline doombuggy69

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Re: OT - DS DVD: your opinions appreciated
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2002, 10:12:04 AM »
Slight correction to my above post: I paid $39.95 for the DS DVD's, not $26.95!  I found them at Best Buy for $39, but I know of several internet sites that charge as low as $41.95.  $50 is still way too much.

Offline ShadowsAtlanta

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Re: OT - DS DVD: your opinions appreciated
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2002, 06:41:59 AM »
Well, I do think the price is okay considering that one DVD set = eight VHS tapes, which would run $80 through MPI's website.  I think DVD Collection 1 is good in some ways... the menus are awesome, the overall design of the DVDs is good, and the picture is fine on my low-tech TV.  I do think it was cheesy of MPI to promise "new interviews" though, when they were actually just old material.  All in all I'm pretty satisfied.

One things I would definitely like to see is the DS revival series on DVD... they could fit the entire 12 episodes into one set and sell it independently of the original series.  I'm sure there would be a lot of extras they could pull together for that one.

One question: that sciography that Sci-Fi yanked... WHAT was so controversial??  

         Joe   :)

Offline doombuggy69

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Re: OT - DS DVD: your opinions appreciated
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2002, 08:04:58 AM »
>>>>>>>I do think it was cheesy of MPI to promise "new interviews" though, when they were actually just old material.  All in all I'm pretty satisfied.

Joe:
Well, actually, these interviews are "new" in a way. Even though they were taped in 1986, they are outake segments of unused material, that has not been released before.  I don't mean to complain and come down so hard on MPI for the DVD's. I do love MPI for doing them, and I am grateful to have them. But it's just I have seen better quality on discs from other independent companies like A&E, Anchor Bay, and IMAGE.  THis has nothing to do with the condition of the original DS tapes. It is solely the way the disc's themselves are manufactured. If MPI could just up the bitrate a bit, I would be totally satisfied.  And the price is ok with me, as long as it is in the 40-45 dollar range.

>>>>>>One question: that sciography that Sci-Fi yanked... WHAT was so controversial??  

Well I saw it at the banquet at the Festival and I really didn't think it was all that bad.  Certain parts were actually very well done.  But after about 20 minutes into it though, you can see that this was turning into something quite nasty. The narrator began talking more about the private lives of the DS stars, Don Briscoe's forey into drugs, Mitch Ryan's bout with alcholism, Joan Bennet's drinking problem, the "fued" between Frid and Selby......and many more unpleasant things that had nothing to do with the show's success. It was like the E True Hollywood story's version of DS.  I really don't know why it was so shocking however, as I thought most people already knew about most of the unpleasant things that the special talked about anyway.  But in all fairness, it did present DS in a VERY bad light and I for one am glad that it will never air.

Selby_D._Pearson

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Re: OT - DS DVD: your opinions appreciated
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2002, 12:23:45 PM »
I am so grateful that this thread was started because I was going to start one with questions of my own about the DVD sets. I purchased all of the VHS DS tapes when they first came out and although I got many at a discount rate, the cost of the entire series at that time (254 tapes) was $5067.00!! ($19.95 per tape.)

I purchased the "Dark Shadows Special Edition" DVD some time ago. I was not happy with the picture quality. If the new sets are the same quality, I will not be interested. On the new DVD episodes they have already committed an unforgiveable (in my book) mistake by not including the pre-show slates, which WERE included on the Collector Series VHS tapes. Why in the world these slates were not included is beyond comprehension!! DVDs are supposed to contain EXTRAS that VHS tapes do not have! These slates were a wonderful addition, helping to keep the episodes in order, being a resource for the dates the episodes were taped and aired, and were sometimes great FUN when one of the actors held the slate (such as Alexandra Molke blowing kisses to the audience). Just the thought of not having these slates is keeping me from buying the DVDs, notwithstanding the poor quality that several of you are referring to. Within the next decade, according to the FCC, most of us will have High Definition TVs. If the imperfections of the new DS DVD sets show up on the HDTV sets, will this give MPI an excuse to re-re-release the episodes once again?

As for Murph's question about the Blooper tape, I totally agreee that it was sloppily thrown together. I remember way back in the early days of the DS Festivals that Joe Integlia put together a wonderfully hilarious blooper tape that puts MPI's tape to shame. The problem with MPI's tape is that blooper after blooper is too quickly presented without any set up, explanation, or enough time for the viewer to laugh. I feel that they could have stretched the bloopers on that one tape to THREE blooper tapes if they had asked someone like Roger Davis to host the bloopers ala' Dick Clark. For instance, Roger could have set up the blooper where Julia is dialing the police as Barnabas and Lang bang on the locked parlor doors by saying something like, " Now notice how Barnabas seems to forget Dr. Dave Woodard's name and has to be reminded by Dr. Lang who knew nothing of Dr. Woodard's murder." With set ups such as these (and possibly a laugh track) MPI could have made itself more money by releasing more tapes and the fans (and non-fans) would have better understood the bloopers.

(By the way, we have Joe Integlia to thank for the survival of the infamous Grayson Hall blooper when Julia was interacting with Tony Peterson in his office and Lela Swift yells "CUT!" Joe taped this blooper when it was aired in the early 1980s on an Atlantic City, NJ independent TV station. This wonderful LONG blooper was later erased from its master tape by Worldvision. Too bad that MPI can't give Joe credit where credit is due. Then again, MPI never credited Bob Issel for finding the Dark Shadows Game TV commercial which they use on their videos.)

And speaking of Roger Davis and the MPI DS series, has anyone noticed that the Sam Hall article (that appeared in TV Guide to tie up loose ends on the prematurely cancelled DS) was narrated in an EDITED form by Mr. Davis? Why did MPI choose to edit Sam Hall?!!

One other question about the DVDs. Are they complete and uncut? The VHS DS tapes were "supposed to be" complete and uncut but were they? On Volume 49 of the Collectors Series, at about 1 hour 14 minutes and 59 seconds, there is a 16 second segment that has been trimmed from that episode (just before Barnabas carries Maggie into the secret room of the mausoleum). Yet, this scene is shown in its entirety on the Regular DS MPI tape (Volume 5 at 1 hour 16 minutes and 33 seconds.) This seems to be the fault of the MPI editor. I wonder if this segment is missing from the corresponding DVD episode in the first box set and if there are other segments that we might find missing on later DS DVD releases? They have already let a typo slip by them on the first boxed set. Where is quality control?

As for possible extras on the DVDs, I know that actors' commentaries would be impossible for each episode but what about special episodes, like Lara Parker commenting throughout Angelique's first episode in 1795 or Angelique's famous "Burn! Burn!" house of cards routine? Or Alexis waking Angelique? How about Dan Curtis commenting throughout one of the episodes that he directed? It might not be accurate, but it would give the old winds-of-war-bag a chance to toot his horn!  ;)  And it's too bad that the enmity between Frid and Curtis will probably prevent Frid from doing episode commentaries as he enjoyed doing at the early Festivals. (Yes, he ENJOYED it. A scene would be played on screen and he would critique himself to the delight of the audience.)

Since DS was a daily show in a decade of turmoil and triumph, it would be neat if (as Murph suggested) some of the major national and world events could be included somewhere on the DVD. This would likely mean much more to us "old-timers" who watched the show in its original run than it would to the many "youngins'" who have discovered DS in reruns. Also, the possibility exists to include DS-related promotional events that correspond to a particular episode (like "The day that this episode aired, David Selby was grand marshall of the 'I Am an American' parade in Baltimore".... or....
"This episode aired the day that Jonathan Frid first appeared on the Merv Griffin show"... or... in the parallel time episodes "This episode was taped on the same day that filming for 'House of Dark Shadows' began.) There are MANY extras that have been shown at the Festivals that could be included on the DVDs. For instance, how about Humbert Allen Astredo's screen test for the part of Prof. Dave Woodard on the 1991 DS series?

There are many ways that MPI could be creative without going to great expense (and driving up the cost of the DVDs). Sadly, with their track record, it doesn't look as if MPI is interested in creativity.  :-/

SDP

Selby_D._Pearson

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Re: OT - DS DVD: your opinions appreciated
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2002, 12:52:56 PM »
Quote
>>>>>>One question: that sciography that Sci-Fi yanked... WHAT was so controversial??  

Well I saw it at the banquet at the Festival and I really didn't think it was all that bad.  Certain parts were actually very well done.  But after about 20 minutes into it though, you can see that this was turning into something quite nasty. The narrator began talking more about the private lives of the DS stars, Don Briscoe's forey into drugs, Mitch Ryan's bout with alcholism, Joan Bennet's drinking problem, the "fued" between Frid and Selby......and many more unpleasant things that had nothing to do with the show's success. It was like the E True Hollywood story's version of DS.  I really don't know why it was so shocking however, as I thought most people already knew about most of the unpleasant things that the special talked about anyway.  But in all fairness, it did present DS in a VERY bad light and I for one am glad that it will never air.  


I agree with doombuggy69 and others here who have said that they didn't find the Sciography DS episode (shown at the Festival banquet) as offensive as KLS and Marie Wallace seemed to. I totally enjoyed it. And I think, with its "E! True Story"-like format, if it had aired it might have drawn in some younger fans who otherwise might not have ever given DS a second look.  For me, the "gossip" was all common knowledge to most DS fans, presented in the form of contemporary satire. And while I think I could understand someone from our parents' and/or grandparents' generations (like Joan Bennett) not "getting" the tongue-in-cheek humor of the show, I think KLS, Marie and John Karlen (if he indeed walked out of the banquet as KLS said he did) are being thin-skinned and prudish about the whole thing. Jim Pierson had set up the show by telling everyone it wasn't to be taken too seriously but it seemed to backfire on him. He has since done damage control it seems, even getting KLS to back peddle somewhat. Of course she'll keep coming to the Festivals! She knows what side her bread is buttered on!

I think it was a bit ironic that early on in the Fest, KLS was presenting her own bit of satire (perhaps for  catharsis) when she publicly read the personal letter of an unnamed angry customer to whom she had mistakenly sent a wrong order of Pomegranate Press books. While she seemed to present for the audience the attitude that the letter had amused her, I wonder if any other fans there thought that she was taking an opportunity to publicly make fun of fans who take their DS too seriously? Even more ironically, this was only moments before the angry little developmentally disabled fan accosted her on stage! (Do you think it was HIS letter that she was reading?)  :o

SDP

Offline VAM

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Re: OT - DS DVD: your opinions appreciated
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2002, 03:26:40 PM »
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She knows what side her bread is buttered on!

I don't think Ms. Scott spends time worrying about it...
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Offline ksgemini

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Re: OT - DS DVD: your opinions appreciated
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2002, 05:19:12 PM »
I am very appreciative that MPI has done what they have with the DS series over the years.  There will always be bad video glitches when the source is from 35 year old VTR ...If u look at A&E's early Avengers eps they look even worse than DS...It'd be nice to have some more recnt interviews but the show is what's important for me...How many times will all watch the interviews again...as for the controversial documentary ...I havent seen it but I have never been interested in the private lives of stars...It doesnt matter who did drugs or live  alternative lifestyles...only what a performer does on screen...I think I am in the minority here, probably but I can see why stars like Harrison Ford try to remain basically private people...to even discuss a departed person's alleged drinking problem has NOTHING to do with DS...I do wish MPI would speed up the release process for the DVD's though...after Sept, they are going to be quarterly...tooo long!

Offline Luciaphile

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Re: OT - DS DVD: your opinions appreciated
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2002, 06:01:02 PM »
KLS' publishing company concentrates on DS material.  It's not Joe Schmoe off the street who buys those books.  Sure, once in a blue moon, someone may conceivably pick up a copy of a DS book and plunk down cash for it, but I would bet the farm that the majority of her business comes from DS fans.  

I would imagine that guarantees her presence at Fests.

Luciaphil

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