Leviiathon question

[Willie]

I don't think the spoiler feature is working so...

**SPOILER**

I'm almost at the end of the Leviathon storyline and Peter Bradford's ghost shows up.  He says that Jeb Hawkes somehow caused the death of Vicki, and Peter then killed Jeb and was later hung for it.  Soooooo...are we supposed to assume that after Barnabas went back in time and got Peter and Vicki all squared away so they could live happily ever after in 1795, somehow they got mixed up with the Leviathons, and Vicki was maybe under their power or something, leading to her death?  So they didn't live happily ever after, but died tragically two years later in 1797?  Those two really had bad luck at the gallows didn't they?

It just seems kind of odd.  But these episodes are absolutely fantastic!

[Nelson Collins]

I have not seen the Leviathan story yet, but at a guess, I think the writers wanted to show the Leviathans as a nastier lot by having them kill the killing the fan-beloved Victoria.  Since previous attempts to recast the role met with failure, perhaps the writers didn't have a problem with killing her off in this way.

Or since the storyline was not very popular (IIRC, ratings plummeted diuring this story), they needed a way to wrap it up quickly and using the Bradford/Shadow plot they were able to dispatch Jeb sooner than they originally planned?  All pure supposition on my part.

[IluvBarnabas]

                     
I absolutely LOATHE this plot twist....there was no reason to ruin Vicki and Peter's happy ending.

Vicki had been a much beloved character, killing her off was a big mistake. All it did was alienate the viewers further.

Aside from this unpleasant plot twist though, I myself enjoy the Leviathans storyline.

[MagnusTrask]

Now 1968 is fresher in my memory than Leviathans.   Did they really give no clue as to how Jeb was somehow mixed up with Bradford and Victoria?   Other than getting them killed somehow?

We know Leviathan people were around in 1795/6/7, whatever....because that's where Barnabas met them.    Is there any hint of an implied reason that their being there at Collinwood back then led to Jeb offing PB and VW?    They throw a lot of extra relationships into Bradford's past, indiscriminately.    It just suddenly turned out that Eve knew him, too....

It was pretty short-sighted of Barnabas to send PB and VW mark 3 out the front door of Collinwood, assuming that since they said they were making their way out west, they would get there.     No reason to think they weren't nabbed a few minutes later and taken back to gaol.   Barnabas was naive about problem-solving at this point.   He was new at solving other people's problems and screwed up a lot.   

[Brandon Collins]

I think more than anything, mentioning that Jeb killed Vicki was intended for some sort of shock value to entice viewers back to watching since many people were either confused by or simply didn't like the storyline.

I never really got that particular plot development, because it doesn't make sense. In 1795/6/7 the Leviathans were recruiting Barnabas to join their cause. Just the two Gods, Haza and the other one, were alive, as far as we know. Jeb wasn't even in human form yet, he was still in the box. So, are we to believe that once Jeb reached adulthood in 1968 that he somehow traveled back through time, threw Vicki off Widow's Hill, then was thrown off Widow's Hill by Peter, and returned to the present, somehow excaping death while Peter was hanged for his murder? Pish posh.

[MagnusTrask]

I thought they meant that somehow Jeb had lived in 1795/6/7 before 1969, maybe also being born and developing into an adult overnight back then, the same way he did in 1969.

[Joeytrom]

The reason for this was that the ghost was to have been Paul Stoddard's ghost,

SPOILER


out to avenge his death caused by Jeb.  Dennis Patrick was doing the movie "Joe" at this time and was unavailable.  So the writers came up with the idea to use Peter Bradford's ghost instead and Jeb killing Vicky in 1796.

[MagnusTrask]

So the writers came up with the idea to use Peter Bradford's ghost instead and Jeb killing Vicky in 1796.

Does that even qualify as an idea?!    

[arashi]

Ah ha! So that explains it! I was always wondering what happened to the huge threat of Paul Stoddard's ghost.

[Willie]

I'll never forget Paul Stoddard when they opened his coffin and he was grinning at them.  One of the more unintentionally hilarious scenes in the show    I really wish they would have given us a bit more information on Jeb killing Vicki, I mean, were Peter and her taken over by the Leviathons and forced to raise Alex/Mike/Jeb, like an 18th century version of the Todds?  Or was she chosen as Jeb's wife, like Carolyn?  Or was she just hanging out on widow's hill one day and Jeb came by and decided to give her a shove?  They at least owed us a flashback scene or two, even if it meant getting a Vicki version 4.

[MagnusTrask]

I think the kindest thing for the viewer was not to dwell on it, and get past this insane plot twist fast, without looking back.     I don't think it could be made to make sense.   

[Brandon Collins]

Yes! I had completely forgotten about that big threat of Paul Stoddard's ghost coming back and killing Jeb. So that really DOES explain it. Vicky got offed because Dennis Patrick got another acting gig! Oh the horrors!

[Gerard]

Yes! I had completely forgotten about that big threat of Paul Stoddard's ghost coming back and killing Jeb. So that really DOES explain it. Vicky got offed because Dennis Patrick got another acting gig! Oh the horrors!

Well, let's be grateful.  Joan Bennet could've been offered a temporary stint somewhere else and they would've had to write off her character as being buried-alive/sent-to-Wyndcliff/off-on-a-Bloomingdale's-sale-of-the-century-shopping-spree and who knows what "plot twists" they would've come up with then.

Gerard

[Nelson Collins]

Well, let's be grateful.  Joan Bennet could've been offered a temporary stint somewhere else and they would've had to write off her character as being buried-alive/sent-to-Wyndcliff/off-on-a-Bloomingdale's-sale-of-the-century-shopping-spree and who knows what "plot twists" they would've come up with then.

Hardly the same situation surely as Joan (who was a much bigger name than Dennis) had it written into her contract that she have time off for other projects.

[michael c]

by rights victoria's fate during the leviathan storyline should have disturbed me more than it actually did.

the truth is i had already "mourned" the loss of vicki when alexandra moltke left the show a year earlier.after that victoria winters just sort of became a name.

it wasn't so much the character of vicki per se that i was so fond of but alexandra's portrayal of her.at the time that alexandra left vicki's storyline was pretty weak so it was more her screen presence i missed more than the character itself.

that said did i think that this plot development was poor writing and sloppy storytelling?yes.would i have wished a happier fate for victoria?absolutely.