1897 arch villains

[BuzzH]

I have always loved the way that DS has pointed up hypocrisy and the fact that, in real life, nothing is as black-and-white as some would have it be(ie; a man of the cloth is always a symbol of good and a vampire is always a symbol of bad).  At least we could always depend on a Trask to live up to his stripes!

Interesting observation!  It's true, they had characters who DIDN'T fit w/what you'd think they should represent (minister being good, vampire being bad)  Star Trek did a lot of this too, had 'hidden' messages and moral themes in a lot of their eps.  Gene Roddenberry and the DS writers were good at teaching w/out preaching. 

On another note, I remember being surprised as a kid when King Johnny, who started out as a threat, ultimately became allied with our heroes!  To this day, he remains one of the most memorable short term characters of the show for me and, I'm sure, many others.

I love King Johnny, he was hilarious!  "So, you're trrrying to put da bazure on old Johnny eh Madga!?" 

[Pansity]

I have always loved the way that DS has pointed up hypocrisy and the fact that, in real life, nothing is as black-and-white as some would have it be(ie; a man of the cloth is always a symbol of good and a vampire is always a symbol of bad).  At least we could always depend on a Trask to live up to his stripes!

Yes, that's one of the best things about DS is that most of the main characters were written as three dimentional and had reasons and motivation for their actions.  Of course there were exceptions (I think everyone has their own personal list of cardboard cutout characters that they love to hate), but by and large each of the main characters actions were plausibly motivated.  You may not agree AT ALL with their motivations -- but there was no denying they had them.

Not to mention their great habit of playing with your preconceptions about a character or type of character -- then turning what you thought you knew inside out and upside down.

And good point BuzzH about Roddenberry doing the same thing. Both he and Curtis used their particular genre to comment on life, morality and the universe in general.  Thats why I think both shows have survived with strong followings.

Of course, given Sciffi has been running its marathon all weekend, I really HAVE to comment on Rod Serling doing much the same thing in Twilight Zone, another show I love and can see certain episodes of  over and over.

[Amy Jennings Fan]

I've always thought the humans of DS (e.g. Nathan Forbes, Gabriel Collins) were more villainous than any of the supernatural beings, and the most evil of them all was Gregory Trask.  I expect witches and warlocks to do evil things, but Trask was a "reverend," a man who was supposed to uphold goodness, and instead Gregory engaged in every possible perversion: child abuse (child molestation?), murder, conspiracy, gas-lighting, blackmail.  Count Petofi's villiany was almost cartoonish in comparison.  The lengths to which humans will go because of greed or revenge pale next to performing a Black Mass or possessing a child.  The former dangers are real.

I agree with ProfStokes. Gregory Trask gives preachers a bad name.

[Garth Blackwood]

Did 15 out of 16 people seriously say Trask was more evil than Petofi?????

I'm shocked because Petofi was pure unadulterated evil --- he said at one point that "Only Petofi is important" and showed blatant disregard to  others time and time again while only helping someone to manipulate them later.

Trask was a manipulative, greedy, hypocritical man with homicidal tendencies when it was necessary, but he wasn't anywhere near Petofi's level!!

[Lydia]

The following is a vast oversimplification, but never mind:

Petofi, on the whole, wanted things that we ourselves wouldn't mind having.  Immortality, beautiful music - what else?  The problem was that he didn't care whom he hurt in the course of getting what he wanted.

Trask didn't care whom he hurt, either, but he wanted some things that I wouldn't touch with a ten-thousand-foot pole.

[Garth Blackwood]

Trask ... wanted some things that I wouldn't touch with a ten-thousand-foot pole.

What did he scheme to get other than the Collins' money? I would touch that with a 10000 foot pole...

[Lydia]

Pointing you back towards a previous post in this thread:

Personally the thing that gave me the worst case of the crawls about Gregory Trask was the implication of molestation/rape with both Rachel AND with Charity.

[IluvBarnabas]

As many people have already pointed out, Petofi was at least honest (other than passing himself under a phony name) about his motives and what he wanted for the most part. Yes he was evil, but considering the amount of power he had and/or wanted you kind of expect it from him.

Trask, on the other hand, was supposed to be a servant of God when he proved time and time again he wasn't. Maybe he THOUGHT he was, deluded, twisted wretch that he was. But he was guilty of child abuse, murder, attempted murder, gaslighting....the guy was a sadistic, greedy monster. A human one at that too.

So, yes, out of the two I would agree that Trask was more evil. Not saying it makes Petofi any less evil, just maybe a inch or two when compared to the likes of Gregory.

[Garth Blackwood]

L-- if we are to assume that he actually did molest these kids, then he obviously had some personality issues. The fact that he's messed in the head does not make him more evil than Petofi.

[Lydia]

I'm not sure about that.  For one thing, we're getting into definitions of mental illness here.  I'm don't think I'm willing to say, "Because person X molests children, it automatically follows that person X is mentally ill."

For another thing, we're getting into definitions of evil.  The original question was Who was the Worst Person in the World?  or something like that.  Does the worst person have to be evil?  And is evil not evil if it arises from personality issues?  And if one says, "Because person X molests children, it automatically follows that person X is mentally ill," is that the first step towards proving that evil cannot logically exist?

I like what you said, though, Garth Blackwood.  I didn't expect it at all.

[Garth Blackwood]

L-- I suppose I was inherently making a distinction between wicked acts which clearly have externel motivations (such as wanting to steal someone's body for immortality, or stealing money --- both reasonably logical acts in some sense), with wicked acts which have no tangible externel motivations, such as rape or child molestation. The second case are ones I was tacitly attributing to mental illness (at least partially), because the only thing one is satisfying by committing these acts are their own strange urges, whereas lots of people can understand the urge to steal money or steal an immortal body from someone. So I wasn't making an argument that evil doesn't exist, only that certain wicked acts may be attributable to something other than evil.

Taking an entirely different angle----- the evidence that Trask was a child molester is circumstantial at the very best, and at the very worst, there is none. When answering the question "who is more evil", it seems like one might want to directly compare the wicked acts that we actually know about, instead of assuming. The point of my original post was that I was shocked about 15/16 people thinking Trask was worse, considering Petofi sort had the whole "master of evil" (sort of like Nicholas Blair) image going.

[Lydia]

So, GB, you take my argument that Trask is more evil and turn it into an argument that he is in fact not evil.  Cool!

As for evidence...if we were talking about a court of law, I would agree with you.  But we're not, so I figure different rules of evidence apply.

[Garth Blackwood]

L ^^^

I didn't say he wasn't evil, Trask has clearly committed acts which fell under the first category I mention, so yeah ....

I figure no matter where we are one probably wouldn't consider there to be evidence when we have not a single person who even begins to hint at it on the show. In reality, the idea that he ever molested anybody is purely reading into the fact that he's smarmy and bossy in a weird way toward people younger and more vulnerable than him-- but that is nowhere near a necessary and sufficient condition for sexual molestation. If it were, then we'd have to conclude Barnabas molested Willie and Julia, among others.

[Lydia]

GB - Take another look at the scene (if you have it available) when Rachel first meets Trask again at Collinwood.  According to Robservations it's episode 727.  What Trask says is...odd.

[Taeylor Collins]

I personally think Rachel possessed the most evil power of all: annoying the hell out of me!  

Kudos to Professor Stokes for informing me of what gaslighting is!  I hadn't' t heard that term before!  Google helped me find out (quickly) what it is all about!