ShadowGram Update #170

[Janet the Wicked]

Janet, I am curious, do you know someone who is in contact with John Karlen?? I hope that is true he is okay with not coming this year, but as you say you know Jonathan would loved to have seen JK again.

Yeah. I know someone who is in contact with the old man. I talked to JK on Monday. He is okay with this whole thing and one of the few people that understand the gravity of the thing. This is a small time DS celebration. He is in no way hurt or upset that the west coasters are not being flown out to NYC. He understands that Jim Pearson and the many loyal peoples that put all these celebrations together have only so much time and money. You understand. Kudos to Nancy Kersey. She's the one who made it happen.
Myself - I will certainly miss JK. But I am fortunate to meet Old Man Frid for a first time.
Dang, kids, how many of you ran home to watch the show in the sixties? If you had told me then that I would be hob-nobbing with the star - I would'nt have b'lieved you.
Oh, yeah. Jonathan Frid was the star. Not JK. I think...I must remain wicked.

[joe integlia]

i see that once again videotaping of the festival will be forbidden.

[Nancy]

I must have missed those posts because what I'm seeing is people being upset that apparently some stars were told they weren't invited.  Don't know if this is true or not, but if it is that's just rude of Jim.  Yes, it's true that they can say "Screw Jim" and come anyway on their own dime, but if one doesn't feel welcome, why would they want to come?  Again, I don't know if what MB said was true about them not being invited, or told 'their services weren't required', or whatever it was,  I'm not 'in the loop' w/Jim and company, but most ppl would decide not to attend based on that.  Me persoanally, I'd say 'screw Jim' and go anyway, but that's just the VA rebel in me I guess!  

I think that whole thing about some actors not being invited came out of the fact that the event was going to be kept very small and any actor who wanted to attend and be flown in for it was going to be politely told they were out of luck.  The money isn't there for that for this event.    Actors can certainly fly in on their own (well, yes, they need to use an airplane) and several west coast actors have been flying to the fests on their own dime for awhile.  The money isn't there to fly everyone who wants to atttend a DS function, large or small.

I think most fans are very aware of this.  Seems to me, if Jim had truly had his way back in 2003, these Fests would have ended w/the first Brooklyn Festival.  No matter what Marcy Robin claims, it WAS billed as the final Festival, but perhaps ONLY on the aforementioned website, maybe she didn't see that posted on there.  Guess she gave up on it being regularly updated too!     I think only the fact that the stars, KLS in particular (big surprise right?  ), pulled Jim onstage during the cast reunion and called him on the carpet about it that caused him to back pedal and continue them for a few more years.  But my friends and I all say, IF there's another Fest....

Exactly.  Anything that is done as a DS event should be appreciated for whatever it is and supported.


Nancy

[Mary]

If the Fests are losing money, why not up the price of admission?  Why not have more dealers other than MPI?  Don't the dealers have to pay a fee to the Fest to have tables there?  Plus, I have at least one friend who stopped attending when they got rid of most of the dealers, so I know there are people who come to cons mainly for the dealers.  Did Pierson really decide to continue with the Fests after 2003 because of pressure from the stars?  Or was it because that Fan Fair group wanted to start their own DS cons?  If Pierson doesn't want to do them, why not let someone else do them?

Count me among the people for whom the Fests are the highlight of my year and I plan my whole vacation around them.  Like others have said, how else could I afford the hotels for trips to NYC and LA?  And what better way to get together with friends?  So, gee, I guess this means I just don't have a life -- oh the horror!  

[Gerard]

Actors can certainly fly in on their own (well, yes, they need to use an airplane) and several west coast actors have been flying to the fests on their own dime for awhile. 

Well, for crying out loud, why don't they use the I-Ching wands?  They should practice first so they don't end up in Kansas City.

Gerard

[Brandon Collins]

If the Fests are losing money, why not up the price of admission?  Why not have more dealers other than MPI?  Don't the dealers have to pay a fee to the Fest to have tables there?  Plus, I have at least one friend who stopped attending when they got rid of most of the dealers, so I know there are people who come to cons mainly for the dealers.  Did Pierson really decide to continue with the Fests after 2003 because of pressure from the stars?  Or was it because that Fan Fair group wanted to start their own DS cons?  If Pierson doesn't want to do them, why not let someone else do them?

Well, I'm sure they've talked about upping the admission price before, but more than likely if they did that, they'd lose a certain percentage of attendance. One of the draws, for me anyway, it how cheap the FEST costs, minus hotel fees and traveling expenses. If I had to pay, let's say $500 for traveling expenses and hotel costs, and then turn around and pay like $250 or so for a total fest admission (including all days involved, and the banquet) I'd seriously rethink me going.

As for why they don't let other people run the fest--me thinks that it's because once people saw how much work goes into it, any volunteers would surely run the other way. Not to mention that if they royally screwed it up it would be Jim's, DCP's, and the Fest's name on the line. If I were Jim, I certainly wouldn't want that type of stress--worrying about someone else doing it and me not being able to go all control-freak. I am a control-freak, mind you

At the Brooklyn Fest last year, there was a....well, not a LARGE dealer room, but I was surprised at how many dealers were there. MPI, of course, and then there were a number of fan dealers that had a bunch of different fanzines for sale, and there were LOTS of table with DS pics for sale and fest vids for sale. Out in the main hall there were more DS picture tables, some DS Marilyn Ross tables with other little DS collectibles--watches, paper clipping, the like--and then a LARGE table that had tons of old TV Guides and 16, Tiger Beat, and related magazines, many with DS articles or mentions, and some that were just REALLY REALLY old and collectible to people who collect things like that.

This year, though, because of the scaled down event, I"m sure there won't be as many dealers. And if events in subsequent years are to match or mimic this year's gathering, I suspect dealers won't come in droves like they did before.

[MsCriseyde]

This year, though, because of the scaled down event, I"m sure there won't be as many dealers. And if events in subsequent years are to match or mimic this year's gathering, I suspect dealers won't come in droves like they did before.

Dealers who have inquired about tables this year, regardless of whether they are "new" to the events or have had tables for several consecutive years, are being told that there will be none, so it's not a matter of speculation to say that there won't be as many dealers or the usual dealers.

[adamsgirl]

Thanks for your observations, adamsgirl.  I certainly have seen some goodnatured bantering between JF and Lara on earlier Fest tapes, so I would like to think Lara was making a joke when she made that comment after Jonathan's call at last year's Fest, and since you were there you would have had a much better idea of what transpired then, so thanks.

My pleasure, Miranda. I will say this, though: Some people who also witnessed it took offense. As you can tell, I wasn't among them. I think, and this is just an opinion, some Frid fans are just overly sensitive -- LOL!

[jimbo]

Dan Curtis Productions has made millions upon millions of dollars on the original  and 1991 series including but not limited to the income from ABC and NBC, the respective vhs and dvd sales, the two DS movies, licensing revenues etc..... In addition, it makes millions more off its investments from said income. I just don't understand why DCP would not set aside some money each year to help with the annual DS Festivals.? I understand that DCP and the Festival are different entities. My point is that DCP is ABLE to and SHOULD assist in helping the fans celebrate Dark Shadows. You would think that DCP would want to help the fans celebrate its own franchise where the fans made DCP earn all that money. Perhaps its because DCP sees this idea as not a good business tactic since there is no return on an investment in assisting the Festival and that is truly sad . If DCP donated money to the Festival then the Festival would not have to severly limit its guests, dealers etc.... I just get the feeling that DCP is turning its back on the fans.

[Mary]

Well, I'm sure they've talked about upping the admission price before, but more than likely if they did that, they'd lose a certain percentage of attendance. One of the draws, for me anyway, it how cheap the FEST costs, minus hotel fees and traveling expenses. If I had to pay, let's say $500 for traveling expenses and hotel costs, and then turn around and pay like $250 or so for a total fest admission (including all days involved, and the banquet) I'd seriously rethink me going.

I agree the low admission price is a draw for me also, but I didn't mean a huge upward leap in price, I was merely thinking of instead of the $30 weekend price fee maybe charging like $45 or so.

As for why they don't let other people run the fest--me thinks that it's because once people saw how much work goes into it, any volunteers would surely run the other way. Not to mention that if they royally screwed it up it would be Jim's, DCP's, and the Fest's name on the line. If I were Jim, I certainly wouldn't want that type of stress--worrying about someone else doing it and me not being able to go all control-freak. I am a control-freak, mind you

If someone else were running a DS convention on their own (which is what I thought was the Fan Fair group's intention), I don't see how it would be Jim's, DCP's, and the Fest's name on the line.

At the Brooklyn Fest last year, there was a....well, not a LARGE dealer room, but I was surprised at how many dealers were there. MPI, of course, and then there were a number of fan dealers that had a bunch of different fanzines for sale, and there were LOTS of table with DS pics for sale and fest vids for sale. Out in the main hall there were more DS picture tables, some DS Marilyn Ross tables with other little DS collectibles--watches, paper clipping, the like--and then a LARGE table that had tons of old TV Guides and 16, Tiger Beat, and related magazines, many with DS articles or mentions, and some that were just REALLY REALLY old and collectible to people who collect things like that.

This year, though, because of the scaled down event, I"m sure there won't be as many dealers. And if events in subsequent years are to match or mimic this year's gathering, I suspect dealers won't come in droves like they did before.

Yes, I too was pleasantly surprised at the number of dealers out in the hall last year.  But if you compare the number of dealers the Fest has with other non-DS cons, this is nothing.  This is nothing even compared to the number of dealers the Fest had in the dealers room in the '90s, which is still nothing compared to the number of dealers at other cons.  There are a lot of things people are interested in coming to the Fest or any other type of con for other than DS items.  For example, the friend I mentioned in my earlier post who no longer comes to the Fests -- at the first Fest that David Selby attended, when he made a surprise appearance (in '92 or '93 maybe -- not sure right now), I walked up to my friend who was in the dealers room and excitedly told her that David Selby was here and her exact response which I will never forget was "Who cares?  I found Lady Death!"  (LOL!)  I also know there are people who come to cons looking for things like bootleg dvds of obscure Eurohorror movies.  They're not going to find any of this stuff at the Fest anymore, if they ever did.  Maybe some people might say that none of that is DS-related and shouldn't be sold at the Fests in the first place, but if it brings in more dealers, more people, and more money for the Fest, why not sell it there?  I'm not saying the Fest should have room after room of dealers so there would be wall-to-wall people and it would be claustrophobic; there certainly should be a limit, but if money is a problem in financing the Fest, only allowing a few select dealers, selling DS merchandise only, in a small dealers room is ridiculous. 

[Nancy]

If the Fests are losing money, why not up the price of admission?  Why not have more dealers other than MPI? 

Something that was long considered but the reality is that most of the usual fest attendees have little disposable income as it is.  In fact, you still have many cases where middle-aged people are still sleeping on the floor in  a room with friends.  Too many of the fans who do attend reguarly do not have the kind of income that allows them to just share a hotel room with just one other person.  A lot of fans work in retail, non-profit and other moderate income industries so raising the admission stands to make the fest even more difficult for them to attend.  They need to room with three to four other people as it is to afford to come at all.  As I said, many still sleep on the floor.

The hotel rates is something Jim has kept researching and in order to get really good deals on hotels like the ones in midtown Manhattan, you have to have people who will use their services, room service, salons, restaurants and most DS fans do not do that.  Helen Samaras, a travel agent who has booked fares for fans and actors for the Fest for twenty years was told this by management .

Bottom line: raising the admission would stand to hurt the fans who do already regualrly attend.  If you have middle-aged people still sleeping on the floor and needing to room with three others to make ends meet on the trip, raising rates in any form isn't a positive thing.

Nancy

[Nancy]

None of us really know about the business model or finances of DCP.   The fact that fest attendance has dropped off (since the show left the air on SciFi) and the 40th Anniversary saw something llike only 2000 it doesn't make sense to finance something that appeals to a limited audience and stands to lose money.  My hope is that the show finds another home on cable.  Back when the series was on SciFi, festival attendance was as high as 4-6,000 people over the course of a weekend.

Nancy

Dan Curtis Productions has made millions upon millions of dollars on the original  and 1991 series including but not limited to the income from ABC and NBC, the respective vhs and dvd sales, the two DS movies, licensing revenues etc..... In addition, it makes millions more off its investments from said income. I just don't understand why DCP would not set aside some money each year to help with the annual DS Festivals.? I understand that DCP and the Festival are different entities. My point is that DCP is ABLE to and SHOULD assist in helping the fans celebrate Dark Shadows. You would think that DCP would want to help the fans celebrate its own franchise where the fans made DCP earn all that money. Perhaps its because DCP sees this idea as not a good business tactic since there is no return on an investment in assisting the Festival and that is truly sad . If DCP donated money to the Festival then the Festival would not have to severly limit its guests, dealers etc.... I just get the feeling that DCP is turning its back on the fans.

[Mary]

Bottom line: raising the admission would stand to hurt the fans who do already regualrly attend.  If you have middle-aged people still sleeping on the floor and needing to room with three others to make ends meet on the trip, raising rates in any form isn't a positive thing.

I'm one of those middle-aged people rooming with 3 others at the Fest to make ends meet.  The Fest price has been $30/weekend for as long as I have been attending (1990) and sometimes has been a 2-for-1 deal.  Raising the rate in the time since 1990 by only a few dollars even would seem reasonable.  I know a lot of people don't have a very big income (and I'm one of them), but I don't think charging just a few dollars more for admission would make that big of a difference.  The banquet price has gone up and people are still coming.  The hotel rate has gone waaaaay up and people are still coming.  Paying a little more to attend the Fest would be better than having no Fest at all, IMHO.  Also, the Fest is the only con that I know of with this cheap of an admission price and I'm sure there are a lot of middle-aged people who attend other cons and cram 3-4 or more people in a hotel room there too.  It's only 1 weekend a year and I thought that was part of the fun and made us feel younger.    

[Mary]

None of us really know about the business model or finances of DCP.   The fact that fest attendance has dropped off (since the show left the air on SciFi) and the 40th Anniversary saw something llike only 2000 it doesn't make sense to finance something that appeals to a limited audience and stands to lose money.  My hope is that the show finds another home on cable.  Back when the series was on SciFi, festival attendance was as high as 4-6,000 people over the course of a weekend.

Before the show was on Sci Fi, 2000 people attending the Fest was the norm, or more like above the norm.  If that wasn't considered a poor attendance then, why is it now? 

[Janet the Wicked]

I think the main draw back is the cost of gas. That will be the deciding factor in my attending the Fest/Weekend thing.