ShadowGram Update #170

[adamsgirl]

The people I feel sorry for, and this is what prompted my initial reaction, are those fans who actually spend an entire year from festival to festival planning their costume gala participation. I don't number myself among them, but they're out there. I can't imagine how disappointing it must be for someone who's spent time and money sewing some incredible costume (last year, there were some young women who had phenomenal period costumes made by their mother) and not get to wear it and show it off. There's also one lady (her name escapes me) who spends a year working on some kind of dance. Some might call these things hokey or whatever, but they mean a lot to the people who do them. Still, as I said before, I understand time constraints and the nature of this event.

Oh, and as for those people who claim to be relatives or to have some terminal illness, that's just sad! Then again, I've seen some crazed people at these festivals, and thankfully, they seem to be in the minority.

[Julianka7]

I prefer to be honest about it and simply say that I put out. 

This has to be the all time best line! ROTFLMAO!!

[Janet the Wicked]

I'm glad to see this particular thread simmering down. I feel Nancy's frustration. Working hard on a project, anticipating the pleasure the fans will feel at having the chance to meet Mr. Frid, and then having a reaction of "But where are the REST of them??" is kind of like serving someone a homemade pie you've spent all morning making and having them ask, "What? No ice cream?" It must be infuriating. Personally, Nancy, I'd like to thank you for helping to make this event possible. I'm anticipating a wonderful time!

[Nancy]

I don't think fans here are disputing that the DS 'event' if you will is, or ever was to be, a full-fledged 3 day Fest.  I think everyone 'gets it' that it's a 1 & 1/2 day 'event' much like last fall's Halloween party in LA and the Lyndhurst Day they had back in June 1992.  But, whether intentional or not, Shadows did refer to the August event as a Festival, see below what I've cut and pasted from my copy of Cyber Shadowgram:

That's true and yet the DS website calls the weekend a "Celebration" rather than a festival unless that has been changed since yesterday.  Of course, Marcy and Ann didn't have any involvement in the initial talks concerning this one day weekend at least not with me - that was between Jim, me and Jonathan including a visit with Jim.  I was told by Jim loast fall he was thinking of having a "one day event for the people in New York" and since he runs the thing, whatever it is, that's how my thoughts on this developed.   It was only because this was to be a one day event Jonathan agreed to be involved.  It was expanded another day as people expressed a dislike of just one single day.   No one in the planning stages ever considered it to be more than that hence my surprise when people started talking about being disappointed the three day fest was scaled back so dramatically. But then again, I am more understanding of that view since historically, California should have been the site for the next festival.  I hadn't thought about that.  Several of the actors I spoke with didn't expect ANY festival this year and were surprised with the one day thing when it was being talked about.

It seems too that ppl here, while grateful for ANYTHING this year, are disappointed, and justifyably so, that it's not a full-fledged 3 day Festival w/all the stars from both coasts attending.  Some ppl plan their vacations around these Festivals, not so much to see the stars per se, but to see friends they've made through the years.

Nothing stops people from meeting up in New York and sharing hotel rooms for a few days or a week. don't need a convention or festival for that.  I keep hearing people say they go to the fests to see friends yet much of the initial complaining has been about more actors not attending.    I can't get my head around people planning their vacations around the convention though.  That totally eludes me unless the they simply don't have friends at home or elsewhere to visit.    I guess let's say it's something I wouldn't do or think of doing.  If a bunch of friends want to meet up in New York and spend a week exploring it that's something else altogether. And that can be done anytime and not necessarily around a festival.

P.S. I'm not happy either that Johnny K won't be there either.  I look forward to seeing my boy every year and really, how many years does the poor man have left?   :-   And, as he indicated at a previous Fest, he's retired and he just waits around for the Fest's every year. I took that to mean he was joking and I certainly hope he was. He could have been joking when he said that of course, but if not, how doubly sad for him that his annual highlight won't come to pass this year.

Yes, it would be and I am assuming JK was joking.  If a festival like this the social highlight of someone's year/life each year there are obviously deeper rooted problems than just being retired or lonely.  It's too sad to think that someone - anyone - would have to fly or drive a long distance in order to be with any friends or feel good about life.  There are lots of fun, interesting fans at the fests too with lots of outside interests. I think that may be what keeps those fans from being devastated or at a loss when something unexpected happens regarding the fests.  They were nearly cancelled out altogether a few  years ago so that's a clear message that no one should expect anything in particular from year to year.

I too would have enjoyed seeing the two Johns onstage together in a Q&A.

Me too.

[Nancy]

I prefer to be honest about it and simply say that I put out. 

You've been at that rum candy again!

Nancy

[Janet the Wicked]

I'm not happy either that Johnny K won't be there either.  I look forward to seeing my boy every year and really, how many years does the poor man have left?   :-   And, as he indicated at a previous Fest, he's retired and he just waits around for the Fest's every year. I took that to mean he was joking and I certainly hope he was. He could have been joking when he said that of course, but if not, how doubly sad for him that his annual highlight won't come to pass this year.

Yes, it would be and I am assuming JK was joking.  If a festival like this the social highlight of someone's year/life each year there are obviously deeper rooted problems than just being retired or lonely.  It's too sad to think that someone - anyone - would have to fly or drive a long distance in order to be with any friends or feel good about life.  There are lots of fun, interesting fans at the fests too with lots of outside interests. I think that may be what keeps those fans from being devastated or at a loss when something unexpected happens regarding the fests.  They were nearly cancelled out altogether a few  years ago so that's a clear message that no one should expect anything in particular from year to year.

I too would have enjoyed seeing the two Johns onstage together in a Q&A.

Me too.

I've got news for you, girlie. Jk would like nothing more than to hob nob with Old Man Frid, but he understands that this is a small time event, an east coast event, and JK is cool with it. He said that he will be there in spirit. He was in a jovial mood the other day:  scoop is he had won a major horse race. Good for John!

[ClaudeNorth]

I can't get my head around people planning their vacations around the convention though.  That totally eludes me unless the they simply don't have friends at home or elsewhere to visit.   If a festival like this the social highlight of someone's year/life each year there are obviously deeper rooted problems than just being retired or lonely.  It's too sad to think that someone - anyone - would have to fly or drive a long distance in order to be with any friends or feel good about life.

As someone who has planned vacations around the Fest, I find this a bit offensive, although I get the point you're trying to make.  My reasons for doing so were entirely practical:  rooms at the Marriott Marquis for only $99/night.  Back in those days (and those were the days), I could book myself into the hotel for 5 nights and still treat myself to museums, sightseeing, and revisiting old haunts by day, and hitting a different Broadway show each night.  For me, the Fests were the ideal opportunity to indulge myself in a New York vacation that I might not be able to afford otherwise.

[Nancy]

No offense meant which is why I put that little devil face there when I made the statement. Honest.  When the fest was in NYC proper, I know many people who plan their vacation around that, stayed (like  you) for almost a week and attended only one or two fest programs the entire week. They took advantage of the great rates at the hotel.  If I hadn't lived in NYC, I would have done the same thing.

Nancy

As someone who has planned vacations around the Fest, I find this a bit offensive, although I get the point you're trying to make.  My reasons for doing so were entirely practical:  rooms at the Marriott Marquis for only $99/night.  Back in those days (and those were the days), I could book myself into the hotel for 5 nights and still treat myself to museums, sightseeing, and revisiting old haunts by day, and hitting a different Broadway show each night.  For me, the Fests were the ideal opportunity to indulge myself in a New York vacation that I might not be able to afford otherwise.

[jennifer]

now i'm just waiting for that Amanda fest MB to finally attend one

jennifer

[BuzzH]

That's true and yet the DS website calls the weekend a "Celebration" rather than a festival unless that has been changed since yesterday. 

Yes, but you assume that people actually look at that COBWEBB that is the DS Fest website.  When was that thing REALLY overhauled anyway?  :-   Most people in fandom, it seems to me anyway, get their info from ShadowGram, Cyber ShadowGram, their Fest mailings and this Forum.  So, to me, it doesn't matter a damn what they put on the site, I gave up on it being up-to-date years ago.  

Nothing stops people from meeting up in New York and sharing hotel rooms for a few days or a week. don't need a convention or festival for that. 

Couldn't agree more Nancy!  In fact, I tried to get my friends--my inner circle of friends that is--to forgo the Fest altogether this year in favor of a week at the beach, Fire Island or Provincetown to be exact.  But since we have a lot of other friends who wouldn't be able to do that, because there's too many of us to hit the beach together instead, we decided that it was more practical to go to Tarrytown instead.  Some of these ppl we only get to see once a year at the Fests.  Bottam line, it just isn't practical for all my friends in fandom and I to vacation together once a year WITHOUT a Fest.  I suspect, sadly, that when they do end, I won't see a lot of these ppl again.     And as Claude pointed out, the cheaper hotel rates are an enticement.  Personally Karlenfan and I plan on spending more time in that fabulous hotel pool than in the main con room, LOL!  

I keep hearing people say they go to the fests to see friends yet much of the initial complaining has been about more actors not attending. 

I must have missed those posts because what I'm seeing is people being upset that apparently some stars were told they weren't invited.  Don't know if this is true or not, but if it is that's just rude of Jim.  Yes, it's true that they can say "Screw Jim" and come anyway on their own dime, but if one doesn't feel welcome, why would they want to come?  Again, I don't know if what MB said was true about them not being invited, or told 'their services weren't required', or whatever it was,  I'm not 'in the loop' w/Jim and company, but most ppl would decide not to attend based on that.  Me persoanally, I'd say 'screw Jim' and go anyway, but that's just the VA rebel in me I guess!  

They were nearly cancelled out altogether a few  years ago so that's a clear message that no one should expect anything in particular from year to year. 

I think most fans are very aware of this.  Seems to me, if Jim had truly had his way back in 2003, these Fests would have ended w/the first Brooklyn Festival.  No matter what Marcy Robin claims, it WAS billed as the final Festival, but perhaps ONLY on the aforementioned website, maybe she didn't see that posted on there.  Guess she gave up on it being regularly updated too!     I think only the fact that the stars, KLS in particular (big surprise right?  ), pulled Jim onstage during the cast reunion and called him on the carpet about it that caused him to back pedal and continue them for a few more years.  But my friends and I all say, IF there's another Fest....

Again, just my two drachmaes  

[Mysterious Benefactor]

I keep hearing people say they go to the fests to see friends yet much of the initial complaining has been about more actors not attending. 

Many fans, including myself, go to Fests primarily to see friends. But as evidenced by how the ballroom is filled, or at least nearly filled for every Fest activity, quite obviously that is not the case with the seeming majority who attend the Fests. 

I can't get my head around people planning their vacations around the convention though.  That totally eludes me unless the they simply don't have friends at home or elsewhere to visit.    I guess let's say it's something I wouldn't do or think of doing.  If a bunch of friends want to meet up in New York and spend a week exploring it that's something else altogether. And that can be done anytime and not necessarily around a festival.

That explanation is quite simple - as even you have since admitted. The Fests provide many with a convenient venue at which they can gather to see friends from around the country (or even the world), all at reduced room rates which allow those who would otherwise not be able to get together with those friends the affordability to do so. And they can do so around a common interest even if they don't all necessarily attend every planned Fest activity.

And even jokingly, having or not having friends at home or elsewhere to spend time with is completely beside the point.

[Miranda]

All of these observations are interesting.  There are also some persons that have perhaps been make to feel rejected by people in fandom in the past who perhaps just like to go to the events they are interested in and don't mind being by themselves or with a small group.

I do hope people DON'T make going to the Fests the center of their year, and I think we have seen a variety of viewpoints here.

Janet, I am curious, do you know someone who is in contact with John Karlen?? I hope that is true he is okay with not coming this year, but as you say you know Jonathan would loved to have seen JK again.  I love to see Jonathan and Lara, but I assume JF has not had much contact with her since 50 Years of Soaps they did in 1994, and I hope she does not feel the need about mentioning AGAIN JF going up on his lines, I thought that was quite out of line when Lara did that right after Jonathan's wonderful surpriise phone call at last year's Fest...I would hate for Lara's comments like that to put a damper on the wondeful chemistry  Jonathan and Lara always had together both on and offscreen, but we shall see...

[adamsgirl]

Gee, Miranda, I was there last year when Lara made that comment. I took it completely as a joke and not as a snipe. JF himself has made light of that situation, even on his website last time I checked. Truth to tell, those flubbed lines didn't detract at all from his mastery of the character and the storylines (okay, so some were out there, but what the heck?). As a kid, I didn't notice them. I was just fascinated by the show, as any kid would be in that age of less-than-spectacular special effects. As an adult, I cherish them. They drive home to me just how grueling a schedule these actors had, virtually learning a play a day and not taping the show the way they're taped now -- with do-overs. What they accomplished is amazing!

[Mysterious Benefactor]

I do hope people DON'T make going to the Fests the center of their year

I understand the point you're making. But, while making the Fest the center of their year might be one thing, it probably should also be mentioned that it's really another for anyone who might look on attending the Fests as one of many greatly anticipated events in their year - or even only every few years that they might decide to attend. Whether the Fests be anyone's single option or merely one of many (and as this year appears to mark an end of an era), that probably still wouldn't lessen the disappointment of the Fests being discontinued - or even altered in such a way that their favorite Fest activities disappear. 

[Miranda]

Thanks for your observations, adamsgirl.  I certainly have seen some goodnatured bantering between JF and Lara on earlier Fest tapes, so I would like to think Lara was making a joke when she made that comment after Jonathan's call at last year's Fest, and since you were there you would have had a much better idea of what transpired then, so thanks.